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Magneto vs The Enterprise


skadoosh
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I'll accept this yield if you can source it.

 

Has Magneto deflected the energy of the explosion or just the missiles? If it's just missiles it doesn't help. Trying to deflect a photon torpedo (as with deflector shields) causes it to detonate. Also, phasers do similar levels of damage. Can you show me where Magneto has shielded energies on this level?

Then why doesn't he deflect the torpedo as soon as it exits the Enterprise? Or just crumple the ship? 

 

magtakespain1fh.jpg

 

Multiple nukes fired by the US government at point blank range while he was in huge pain from before. After this he battled Joseph and the X-Men, so it obviously didn't require much effort to completely nullify the effects. And Phasers won't work, as I said before, any light based energy Magneto can deflect because he literally has all control of it.

 

magcontrolsphotons24qd.jpg

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I just wanna point out that in the above scan Magneto looks like he's putting a lot of effort into defending himself, actually.

 

Other than that, very impressive, Kirk and co. are looking more and more screwed.

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Yeah, which is impressive, but you also said this -

 

it obviously didn't require much effort to completely nullify the effects.

 

- which is not true. He is clearly putting effort into what he's doing. Just wanted to point that out.

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Then why doesn't he deflect the torpedo as soon as it exits the Enterprise? Or just crumple the ship? 

Because they're protected by the ship's shields. As I said before, these should be able to deflect focused electromagnetism in the same way they are able to deflect focused light or radiation. 

magtakespain1fh.jpg

 

Multiple nukes fired by the US government at point blank range while he was in huge pain from before. After this he battled Joseph and the X-Men, so it obviously didn't require much effort to completely nullify the effects.

You say "obviously didn't require much effort" but the text in your scan says "Magneto struggles desperately to minimize the force of the nuclear reactions--" The expression on Magneto's face and the way the muscles are standing out in his neck also demonstrate how difficult this is for him.

 

Technically, there are "multiple" missiles, though your scan shows that multiple means "two" in this instance. They are US missiles and the most powerful warhead currently in the US nuclear arsenal is the B-83, which delivers a yield of 1.2 megatons. Therefore, based on your scan, Magneto is at his limit containing a combined release of 2.4 megatons. That's very impressive, but a single photon torpedo (and thanks for providing this info) can deliver about 30 times that much energy.

And Phasers won't work, as I said before, any light based energy Magneto can deflect because he literally has all control of it.

 

magcontrolsphotons24qd.jpg

You haven't answered the objection I've raised twice about the level of energy. Your scan shows that Magneto can affect light-based attacks but this does support your assertion that he "literally has all control of it." To be able to gain control of any light based attack regardless of how powerful it is would require him to be infinitely powerful. You haven't provided any evidence of that. 

 

He can overcome Dazzler's attack because he's much more powerful than Dazzler. I'm sure he could handle hand phasers pretty easily too. But Dazzler's powers are puny compared to the Enterprise's main phaser banks. As your scan establishes, Magneto's upper limit is alightly better than 2.4 megatons (which converts to 10,000 terajoules) of energy. The ship's main phaser banks have comparable power to her photon torpedoes and will generate about 30 times what he can handle.

 

To go back to your question "why doesn't he just crumple the ship" it's because he can't, he's not powerful enough.

 

In "Into Darkness" the Enterprise survives multiple phaser and photon torpedo hits. We know that any of these hits is equivalent to a 60 megaton nuclear explosion, which should obliterate a vessel of her size. Instead, they do very localized damage. This is because the ship is held together by structural integrity fields (they are needed to withstand the acceleration stress of warp speed and even the accelerations at sublight speeds which would tear any metal ship apart.) They make the hull of the Enterprise so durable that these powerful weapons only do the damage you'd expect from big conventional weapons, like battleship guns. The 10,000 or so terajoule Magneto can muster may cause some very minor damage but its far short of what the Enterprise can take.

 

So, the encounter probably goes like this: Sensors pick up a man flying through space. Kirk orders Uhuru to hail him. Magneto is non-responsive and keeps coming. He tries to crumple the ship with his powers but the structural integrity fields are too much for him.

 

Kirk, not wanting to risk minor damage has the shields raised. Magneto finds he can no longer affect the ship directly and begins trying to breach the shields. Spock says that there is no immediate danger but, if he is able to keep up this level of attack indefinitely, he may eventually get through. Kirk orders a phaser burst on 1/20 power which overloads Magneto's shields and renders him unconcious (if he's lucky.) He can figure out what to do with him at that point.

 

The problem would be if Magneto managed to get on board. I don't think there's any way the crew could deal with him if that happened. 

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That scan of the missiles and Magneto is from the Magneto War. The citadel Magneto is in there? He built it to boost his powers. That is also how he was able to disrupt all of the electronics on Earth.

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I need to make a small correction to what I said before. The warhead I listed before is for a bomber deployed explosive. Since these are cruise missiles they would be using the W80 which tops out at 150 kilotons of force.

 

A proton torpedo would have 200 times the yield of moth of the missiles combined.

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I'm not sure why people haven't brought up the obvious option for an easy win for Magneto.

 

Open a wormhole into the ship, slaughter everyone on board.

 

 

Also, @Dinsdale, about Magneto's limit being about 10.000 terajoule, does lifting Asteroid M, and disabling every electronic device on the planet, from orbit, fall within that limit?

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In "Into Darkness" the Enterprise survives multiple phaser and photon torpedo hits. We know that any of these hits is equivalent to a 60 megaton nuclear explosion. 

 

How do we know this?

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This is really rough but…

XMEN-Utopia.jpg

I didn't find any images of Asteroid M with anything of known size for comparison, however I did find this image of Utopia (created from Asteroid M) with human figures on it. Using this and comparing it to images of Asteroid M, I estimate it's about 176' * 176' * 264' or 8.178×10^6 cubic feet. Figuring in the average density of a nickel-iron asteroid yields a hair over 2,000,000 tons.

 

Earth escape velocity is 25,010 miles per hour and the kinetic energy of that mass, traveling at that velocity is 114,000 terajoules, which is the equivalent of a 27.25 megaton explosion. That's a lot more powerful than my calculations based on the cruise missiles (apparently the US uses more powerful warheads in the Marvel Universe) but still only about a third of what he'd need to shield against a single photon torpedo or phaser burst.

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How do we know this?

It's either that or they're suddenly using some new and much less powerful kind of torpedo than is described at the Memory Alpha Star Trek wiki, which makes no sense.

 

And we can tell that the phasers have a similar output to torpedoes because they visibly do similar damage.

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I'm not sure why people haven't brought up the obvious option for an easy win for Magneto.

 

Open a wormhole into the ship, slaughter everyone on board.

 

 

Also, @Dinsdale, about Magneto's limit being about 10.000 terajoule, does lifting Asteroid M, and disabling every electronic device on the planet, from orbit, fall within that limit?

 

When has Magneto opened a wormhole with his own powers? Also, regarding disabling every electronic device on Earth, this was brought up a few posts ago:

 

That scan of the missiles and Magneto is from the Magneto War. The citadel Magneto is in there? He built it to boost his powers. That is also how he was able to disrupt all of the electronics on Earth.

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Because they're protected by the ship's shields. As I said before, these should be able to deflect focused electromagnetism in the same way they are able to deflect focused light or radiation. 
 
You say "obviously didn't require much effort" but the text in your scan says "Magneto struggles desperately to minimize the force of the nuclear reactions--" The expression on Magneto's face and the way the muscles are standing out in his neck also demonstrate how difficult this is for him.
 
 
 
Technically, there are "multiple" missiles, though your scan shows that multiple means "two" in this instance. They are US missiles and the most powerful warhead currently in the US nuclear arsenal is the B-83, which delivers a yield of 1.2 megatons. Therefore, based on your scan, Magneto is at his limit containing a combined release of 2.4 megatons. That's very impressive, but a single photon torpedo (and thanks for providing this info) can deliver about 30 times that much energy.
 
You haven't answered the objection I've raised twice about the level of energy. Your scan shows that Magneto can affect light-based attacks but this does support your assertion that he "literally has all control of it." To be able to gain control of any light based attack regardless of how powerful it is would require him to be infinitely powerful. You haven't provided any evidence of that. 
 
 
 
He can overcome Dazzler's attack because he's much more powerful than Dazzler. I'm sure he could handle hand phasers pretty easily too. But Dazzler's powers are puny compared to the Enterprise's main phaser banks. As your scan establishes, Magneto's upper limit is alightly better than 2.4 megatons (which converts to 10,000 terajoules) of energy. The ship's main phaser banks have comparable power to her photon torpedoes and will generate about 30 times what he can handle.
 
 
 
To go back to your question "why doesn't he just crumple the ship" it's because he can't, he's not powerful enough.
 
 
 
In "Into Darkness" the Enterprise survives multiple phaser and photon torpedo hits. We know that any of these hits is equivalent to a 60 megaton nuclear explosion, which should obliterate a vessel of her size. Instead, they do very localized damage. This is because the ship is held together by structural integrity fields (they are needed to withstand the acceleration stress of warp speed and even the accelerations at sublight speeds which would tear any metal ship apart.) They make the hull of the Enterprise so durable that these powerful weapons only do the damage you'd expect from big conventional weapons, like battleship guns. The 10,000 or so terajoule Magneto can muster may cause some very minor damage but its far short of what the Enterprise can take.
 
 
 
So, the encounter probably goes like this: Sensors pick up a man flying through space. Kirk orders Uhuru to hail him. Magneto is non-responsive and keeps coming. He tries to crumple the ship with his powers but the structural integrity fields are too much for him.
 
 
 
Kirk, not wanting to risk minor damage has the shields raised. Magneto finds he can no longer affect the ship directly and begins trying to breach the shields. Spock says that there is no immediate danger but, if he is able to keep up this level of attack indefinitely, he may eventually get through. Kirk orders a phaser burst on 1/20 power which overloads Magneto's shields and renders him unconcious (if he's lucky.) He can figure out what to do with him at that point.
 
 
 
The problem would be if Magneto managed to get on board. I don't think there's any way the crew could deal with him if that happened. 
 
First of all, the strongest nuclear weapon in the United States arsenal is the B41 with a yield of 25 Megatons. Second of all, those nukes were SPECIFICALLY designed to take out Magneto (which is why they exploded when he tried to deflect them), which means they could easily be of a higher output to ensure Magneto is dead. Second of all, like I've said three times now, he was before literally trying to manipulate the magnetic field of the entire planet, putting him in extreme pain, and then he got nuked completely unexpectedly. Also, directly afterwards, he fought Joseph (a being more powerful than himself) and the entire X-Men. So obviously, fending off the nukes didn't keep him down for much time at all.
 
 
 
Not really. If he has "absolute control" of the entire E/M spectrum he can deflect all electromagnetism. There has been no indication that there is a limit to this ability, or that it depends on the energy of the light. In any case, in Silent Enemy (Star Trek: Enterprise) the phase cannons had a maximum output of 500 gigajoules, which Magneto can deflect rather easily, and that's assuming that they would full out attempt to annihilate the f*ck out of what appears to be a dude floating in space (extremely uncharacteristic of the Enterprise I believe).
 
 
 
Are you sure it was the hull only and not the deflector shields? Because I don't think deflector shields can deflect what appears to be localized magnetic fields, which can be created inside of the shield or even inside the ship (he can also create electric fields inside the ship, meaning all non-shielded consoles and such are toast).
 
 
 
Even if it was, the structural integrity fields at their max can take 82 * 10^9 Dynes (TNG: The Loss) (why Star Trek uses made up units, I don't know), which is equivalent to 820,000 N (1 dyne = 10^-5 N). Using your figure for 2 million tons as the weight of asteroid M, Magneto can easily override the structural integrity fields of the Enterprise with little to no effort whatsoever. 
 
 
 
Also, you never countered my point that what if Magneto deflected the missile right after it exited the Enterprise?
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First of all, the strongest nuclear weapon in the United States arsenal is the B41 with a yield of 25 Megatons. Second of all, those nukes were SPECIFICALLY designed to take out Magneto (which is why they exploded when he tried to deflect them), which means they could easily be of a higher output to ensure Magneto is dead. Second of all, like I've said three times now, he was before literally trying to manipulate the magnetic field of the entire planet, putting him in extreme pain, and then he got nuked completely unexpectedly. Also, directly afterwards, he fought Joseph (a being more powerful than himself) and the entire X-Men. So obviously, fending off the nukes didn't keep him down for much time at all.
 
 
 
Not really. If he has "absolute control" of the entire E/M spectrum he can deflect all electromagnetism. There has been no indication that there is a limit to this ability, or that it depends on the energy of the light. In any case, in Silent Enemy (Star Trek: Enterprise) the phase cannons had a maximum output of 500 gigajoules, which Magneto can deflect rather easily, and that's assuming that they would full out attempt to annihilate the f*ck out of what appears to be a dude floating in space (extremely uncharacteristic of the Enterprise I believe).
 
 
 
Are you sure it was the hull only and not the deflector shields? Because I don't think deflector shields can deflect what appears to be localized magnetic fields, which can be created inside of the shield or even inside the ship (he can also create electric fields inside the ship, meaning all non-shielded consoles and such are toast).
 
 
 
Even if it was, the structural integrity fields at their max can take 82 * 10^9 Dynes (TNG: The Loss) (why Star Trek uses made up units, I don't know), which is equivalent to 820,000 N (1 dyne = 10^-5 N). Using your figure for 2 million tons as the weight of asteroid M, Magneto can easily override the structural integrity fields of the Enterprise with little to no effort whatsoever. 
 
 
 
Also, you never countered my point that what if Magneto deflected the missile right after it exited the Enterprise?

Where did you get that statistic for the nuke?The largest US nuke ever was 15 megatons.

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The B-41 bomb was discontinued after the 1950s. It was a massive weapon, weighing over 5 tons. It could only be deployed on the largest bombers, not as a missile-based warhead. Cruise missiles (which your scan clearly shows the missiles to be) cannot handle such a massive weapon. 

 
Even if we assume that the US government in the Marvel Universe has developed a warhead as powerful as the B-41 that can be mounted on a cruise missile, the two warheads together (which the text of your scan says Magneto had to struggle frantically to contain) would still have a lower yield than a single attack from the Enterprise.
 
 
 
The missiIes sent at Magneto could be more powerful, but that requires us to speculate that warheads more powerful than the B-41 have been developed by the US government and that they have somehow miniaturized them enough to allow cruise missile deployment. This seems unlikely because a lot of the weight of the device comes from the radioactive material it needs to generate the explosion. In any case, this is a lot of speculation with no evidence to back it up.
 
 
While it makes sense that Magneto was at lower than normal strength because of what he had just done. It also makes sense that his strength was much greater than normal because he was at a base designed to augment his magnetic powers. It's impossible, without more evidence, to say how his power during this feat compares to his normal, healthy, unaugmented power. To make either the claim that he would normally be much more powerful than this, or much less powerful than this is unsupported speculation. The feat only supports what Magneto actually did, not what he might have been able to do under different circumstances. If you don't think it represents his true power, I can only suggest you find a different feat that does.
 
 
The text box in your scan indicates that containing the two thermonuclear blasts is a frantic struggle for Magneto. In other words, he clearly has limits. It makes no sense that he would have infinite power to deflect light based energies but would strain to contain a thermonuclear reaction, which is only a different form of radiation. If his power over such things was unlimited then containing the explosion would have been effortless. For that matter, fighting the X-Men and Joseph, and changing the earth's magnetic field would also have been effortless. Your own examples demonstrate that Magneto's control over EM radiation, and even magnetism, has clear limits. If you want to contend that he has no limits you'll need to produce some evidence to counter this.
 
 
I agree, an all out attack would be out of character for the Enterprise crew, but raising the shields when encountering a man flying through space on his own power and generating powerful energy fields would not.
 
And the Kirk's Enterprise is much more advanced and powerful than Archer's Enterprise. The Star Trek: Enterprise episode "In a Mirror Darkly" makes that very clear.
 
Magneto vs. Archer's Enterprise would be a very different fight, and I'd probably be on Magneto's side for that one.

 
I can't find specific data on deflector shields vs. magnetic energy but did find this statement on the Memory Alpha wiki:
 
Neither matter nor highly-concentrated energy could normally penetrate a shield. When shields were "up," or energized at a high level, most matter or energy that came into contact with the shields was harmlessly deflected away.
 
Without any evidence to suggest that highly concentrated magnetic energy is the one exception to this rule, we have to assume that they protect against Magneto's attacks as well.

 

 

I wasn't aware of the facts you bring up about the SI fields. I'll concede that it must be the defectors are what limits the damage.

 
 
 

Actually, I did answer your question about photon torpedoes, but I can restate my answer.


 
Magneto will not be able to affect the torpedoes until they leave the protection of the Enterprise's shields. After the torpedoes leave the protection of the shields, Magneto will be faced with the same scenario as in the scan with the cruise missiles, except that the torpedoes are much more powerful and much faster.
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...

 

I dunno why there's a massive debate going on when one just needs to do some research on Magneto and they'll find he's going to have a relatively simple time of crushing the Enterprise. _-_

 

Go hit a respect thread or two.

 

There are many points concerning why he couldn't just crush the Enterprise. Do you have any new points about how and why Magneto could do so?

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The B-41 bomb was discontinued after the 1950s. It was a massive weapon, weighing over 5 tons. It could only be deployed on the largest bombers, not as a missile-based warhead. Cruise missiles (which your scan clearly shows the missiles to be) cannot handle such a massive weapon. 

 
Even if we assume that the US government in the Marvel Universe has developed a warhead as powerful as the B-41 that can be mounted on a cruise missile, the two warheads together (which the text of your scan says Magneto had to struggle frantically to contain) would still have a lower yield than a single attack from the Enterprise.
 
 
 
The missiIes sent at Magneto could be more powerful, but that requires us to speculate that warheads more powerful than the B-41 have been developed by the US government and that they have somehow miniaturized them enough to allow cruise missile deployment. This seems unlikely because a lot of the weight of the device comes from the radioactive material it needs to generate the explosion. In any case, this is a lot of speculation with no evidence to back it up.
 
 
While it makes sense that Magneto was at lower than normal strength because of what he had just done. It also makes sense that his strength was much greater than normal because he was at a base designed to augment his magnetic powers. It's impossible, without more evidence, to say how his power during this feat compares to his normal, healthy, unaugmented power. To make either the claim that he would normally be much more powerful than this, or much less powerful than this is unsupported speculation. The feat only supports what Magneto actually did, not what he might have been able to do under different circumstances. If you don't think it represents his true power, I can only suggest you find a different feat that does.
 
 
The text box in your scan indicates that containing the two thermonuclear blasts is a frantic struggle for Magneto. In other words, he clearly has limits. It makes no sense that he would have infinite power to deflect light based energies but would strain to contain a thermonuclear reaction, which is only a different form of radiation. If his power over such things was unlimited then containing the explosion would have been effortless. For that matter, fighting the X-Men and Joseph, and changing the earth's magnetic field would also have been effortless. Your own examples demonstrate that Magneto's control over EM radiation, and even magnetism, has clear limits. If you want to contend that he has no limits you'll need to produce some evidence to counter this.
 
 
I agree, an all out attack would be out of character for the Enterprise crew, but raising the shields when encountering a man flying through space on his own power and generating powerful energy fields would not.
 
And the Kirk's Enterprise is much more advanced and powerful than Archer's Enterprise. The Star Trek: Enterprise episode "In a Mirror Darkly" makes that very clear.
 
Magneto vs. Archer's Enterprise would be a very different fight, and I'd probably be on Magneto's side for that one.

 
I can't find specific data on deflector shields vs. magnetic energy but did find this statement on the Memory Alpha wiki:
 
Neither matter nor highly-concentrated energy could normally penetrate a shield. When shields were "up," or energized at a high level, most matter or energy that came into contact with the shields was harmlessly deflected away.
 
Without any evidence to suggest that highly concentrated magnetic energy is the one exception to this rule, we have to assume that they protect against Magneto's attacks as well.

 

 

I wasn't aware of the facts you bring up about the SI fields. I'll concede that it must be the defectors are what limits the damage.

 
 
 

Actually, I did answer your question about photon torpedoes, but I can restate my answer.

 
Magneto will not be able to affect the torpedoes until they leave the protection of the Enterprise's shields. After the torpedoes leave the protection of the shields, Magneto will be faced with the same scenario as in the scan with the cruise missiles, except that the torpedoes are much more powerful and much faster.

ICBMs can have a payload capacity of 7200 kilograms. 5 tons is 4535 kilograms.

 

What? No, a thermonuclear explosion is not just another kind of radiation, it's concussive force (which isn't radiation at all) and heat energy, of which only a small part is radiation. Also, I don't think Magneto can fly in space at all. He flies on Earth using the Earth's magnetic field. Also, why would he be arbitrarily generating a powerful energy field? Are you suggesting he picks up on the Enterprise before the Enterprise picks up on him?

 

So you're saying that the phase cannons on the new Enterprise are over 1,000 times more powerful than the old one? I would like to see some evidence of this. Actually, no need, I did some hard research, and the The Next Generation: Technical Manual rates Enterprise- D's entire phaser array at 1.02 gigawatts. Battle Lines gives a 40 MW figure, Survivors gives a 400 Gigawatt figure, and Who Watches the Watchers gives a 4.2 Gigawatt figure. For comparison, DS9's Technical Manual rates the entire power output of Deep Space 9 (even though it runs multiple phaser arrays) at 790 Terawatts. So even if DS9 tried to obliterate Magneto, it couldn't.

 

Something else from the Technical Manual, The TM states that 2.4TJ is sufficient to vaporize one cubic metre of tritanium which is used in starship hulls. So if Magneto wanted to, he could actually vaporize pieces of the hull. I'm not even talking about crumpling here.

 

Yes, but that doesn't give any indication of whether it can stop a magnetic/electric field instantiated within the shield, or even within the Enterprise. As far as I know, Deflector shields have only deflected things coming in from out. Magneto can instantiate a magnetic field wherever he wants, even inside people (as seen when he scrambles the electric function of the brain or in the iron in their blood). He doesn't send some kind of magnetic ray to the target, he can create localized magnetic fields to affect every metal object.

 

This makes absolutely no sense. After the weapon leaves the range of the shield, which isn't infinite, and he blows it up, then he might be too far away for the missile to affect him, depending on how far away the ship is. And considering space, it's probably going to be pretty far.

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There are many points concerning why he couldn't just crush the Enterprise. Do you have any new points about how and why Magneto could do so?

 

He pretty much can strip the Enterprise of it's shielding - which makes the defenses argued for moot. He pretty much can crap out a wormhole that sends the Enterprise into a sun. He pretty much has shielding so powerful he could decide to entrap the Enterprise in an instance of one and then proceed to turn it into a ball of metal, plastic, and viscera. He pretty much would wipe out the electronics on the ship relatively easily.  He's also got thermal attacks that are capable of wiping out a city if I recall correctly, which definitely fits within nuclear ranges. He could also scan the Enterprise with his electromagnetic vision, conjure a wormhole, teleport inside the Enterprise, and proceed to explode people apart and take the Enterprise for himself as a nice prize given its tech.

 

He has so much going for him it's silly.

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An ICBM could carry a payload that big, yes. Are you suggesting that the missiles in your scan are ICBM's? They are clearly cruise missiles.

 

You're partly right, the concussive force is not radiation but the heat is. Heat is thermal radiation.

 

The set up says that Magneto detects the Enterprise first and they only notice him when he flies toward them. I don't know if Magneto can fly in space, but it's in the set up so I'm giving him that. There is nothing arbitrary about the fact that Magneto is generating a powerful energy field. He is using his powers to fly.

 

I appreciate the research you did on looking up the Enterprise phaser data. Unfortunately, the numbers from your sources are nonsense, as should be evident from the fact that they are wildly inconsistent with each other. All of them are flatly contradicted by the evidence from the shows and movies. I'll take them one at a time.

 

The 40 megawatt figure from Battle Lines is equal to 40 megajoules/sec. This means that a 1 second burst would have the same force as the explosion of slightly over 19 lbs. of TNT, roughly the power of a sidewinder missile.

 

The 1.02 gigawatt figure from the TNG Tech Manual would equal about 485 lbs of TNT, or about the power of one 18" cannon from a WW-2  era battleship. 

 

The 4.2 gigawatt figure is equal to a little under a ton of TNT. That's roughly 1/11 the power of the largest conventional bomb. 

 

The 400 gigawatt figure is a little more realistic, it has the power of neatly 100 tons of TNT. That's 9 times bigger than the biggest conventional bomb, but still much smaller than the yield of even a suitcase nuke.

 

The 790 Terawatt figure from the DS-9 Tech Manual is better, but still only yields 189 kilotons of energy, a little short of what you'd get from the warhead on a tomahawk cruise missile.

 

If any of these numbers made sense, I'd agree that Magneto would win pretty decisively. Unfortunately, they don't. I did some math with the 790 Terawatt output. If you put an engine with that capacity in a ship the size of Kirk's Enterprise, it would take more than 56 hours to accelerate to .9 sublight. Since we've seen the ship do this sort of thing in mere seconds, the number in the manual has to be much too low.

 

The other thing about the numbers that is an issue is visual evidence. Ship's Phasers and photon torpedoes visually do similar damage. Torpedo damage seems maybe slightly greater. That can't be if the torpedoes (whose explosive force can be accurately be determined based on real world physics) are many hunderds of times more powerful. The logical conclusion is that the phaser banks on Kirk's Enterprise have an out put in tho 200-250 petawatt range.

 

Magneto has the raw power to vaporize pieces of the ship's hull, I agree, but has he ever used his power in that way? I can't see how magnetism would be as useful in trying to vaporize something as a different form of energy, like heat.

 

If, as you suggest, Magneto can simply bypass the shields and directly affect the magnetic fields within the ship, he could win. For one thing, the antimatter in the ships engines is held within a magnetic field. Mess with that and the whole thing goes boom!

 

It depends on how Magneto's powers work. If he, or the magnetic field he generates, has to be in contact with another magnetic field in order to manipulate it, the deflectors will stop him. If he can psychically sieze controls of a remote magnetic field without such contact, he can win. We know from TNG that deflector shields do not block telepathy. If Magneto is using a similar psychic power to access the fields in the ship, the shields won't stop him. I would like to see some confirmation that this is how his powers work before I agree.

 

Magneto could destroy the photon torpedoes once they left protection of the shields. The fact that they use antimatter in a magnetic containment field would make that fairly simple. The two issues he'd have to deal with are range and speed. He wants to be far away from the torpedoes when they explode, but he also needs to be close enough to the ship to see (or sense) them fire. I can't find a listing for how fast the torpedoes are but I'm guessing high sublight (they are warp capable, but that shouldn't come into play in this fight.) He has good potential to defend against them, but it's dangerous, even for him. Phasers will be much more difficult for him to deal with.

 

Power to power, Magneto doesn't have a chance. If he can mess with the engine core, and do it so quickly that they don't get off even one phaser shot, he can win (though it's unlikely he will survive the explosion.)

 

If he could get on board, Magneto could easily take over the ship. In the battle as outlines, the best he can hope for is mutually assurred destruction.

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He pretty much can strip the Enterprise of it's shielding - which makes the defenses argued for moot. He pretty much can crap out a wormhole that sends the Enterprise into a sun. He pretty much has shielding so powerful he could decide to entrap the Enterprise in an instance of one and then proceed to turn it into a ball of metal, plastic, and viscera. He pretty much would wipe out the electronics on the ship relatively easily.  He's also got thermal attacks that are capable of wiping out a city if I recall correctly, which definitely fits within nuclear ranges. He could also scan the Enterprise with his electromagnetic vision, conjure a wormhole, teleport inside the Enterprise, and proceed to explode people apart and take the Enterprise for himself as a nice prize given its tech.

 

He has so much going for him it's silly.

 

When has magneto shown he can strip the shields of anything as powerful as the Enterprise?

 

When has he even "crapped out a wormhole?" And why should we imagine that a wormhole can such in a ship with warp capacity. It'll have the power to suck in anything up to lightspeed, but Enterprises engines are much more powerful than that.

 

I'll agree that he can crush the Enterprise's hull, if he can get through the shields, but all the evidence shows that her shields are much too strong for him.

 

He has a thermal attack that is in the nuclear range? I'll take your word for now, but Enterprises shields can take multiple hits from 64 megaton weapons so that's not going to do anything unless it's much more powerful than it sounds.

 

If he could create a wormhole and get inside the ship, he would win. Of all your arguments, this one sounds like it could have some validity. So far nobody has presented any evidence that he can do this.

 

You have offered a lot of impressive claims, but not a single bit of evidence to back any of them up. Please do so.

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