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treacherous

VS #1: Lightsaber vs. Adamantium

Lightsaber vs. Adamantium  

16 members have voted

  1. 1. Can a Lightsaber cut through adamantium?

    • Standard Lightsaber
      12
    • Secondary Adamantium
      4


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Push the buisness end of a lightsaber against adamantium for a thousand years straight. If you pull the blade away and see a little scratch, then yes, eventually, the saber would be able to cut through the adamantium. It depends very heavily on how dense the metal in question is. Mjolnir's lightning and even punches of sufficient enhanced strength have damaged secondary adamantium before, which is worth saying here.

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Adamantium isn't indestructible, just really, really hard to damage. When it was first intriduced in the Avengers way back when, Thor's hammer could make a small dent in a small adamantium cylinder, and a really insanely ridiculous amount of power can shatter even Captain America's shield (like the Beyonder did once.)

 

So, the question is, can a light saber generate the necessary level of energy. While that's not quantified, it would have to be more than the Human Torch's nova blast, which is around 1,000,000 degrees F and is similar to the heat output of a thermonuclear blast. Based on what we've seen lightsabers do, I doubt they're that powerful.

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Adamantium isn't indestructible, just really, really hard to damage. When it was first intriduced in the Avengers way back when, Thor's hammer could make a small dent in a small adamantium cylinder, and a really insanely ridiculous amount of power can shatter even Captain America's shield (like the Beyonder did once.)

 

So, the question is, can a light saber generate the necessary level of energy. While that's not quantified, it would have to be more than the Human Torch's nova blast, which is around 1,000,000 degrees F and is similar to the heat output of a thermonuclear blast. Based on what we've seen lightsabers do, I doubt they're that powerful.

 

1. Primary Adamantium is indestructible. Marvel has retconned all cases of Adamantium being damaged(in any way) to Secondary Adamantium.

 

2. The Beyonder shattering Cap. America's shield, was not a matter of "ridiculous amounts of energy". It was reality warping.

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2. The Beyonder shattering Cap. America's shield, was not a matter of "ridiculous amounts of energy". It was reality warping.

Do you know the specifics of this particular fight?

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Well for one, he didn't say "ridiculous amount of energy", he said ridiculous amount of power...unless he edited when I wasn't looking. And that's what Beyonder's level of reality warping was.

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Yeah, I think he did edit it. Methos isn't really one to misquote, but you never know. And if, say, the Beyonder used his reality warping powers to uplift his strength to extreme levels, then you might be able to make the case that it wasn't the reality warping in itself that broke the shield. For example, the Silver Surfer could increase his strength using the Power Cosmic, and pull out the Hulk's arms. It doesn't mean the Power Cosmic is soley and purely responsible for that theorhetical feat--anyone with sufficient physical strength could have done it.

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Nope, I didn't edit anything. I did use "energy" in the second paragraph, so the confusion is understandable. And I only remembered the fact of the Beyonder breaking the shield, not the dialogue that went with it. Since it appears he warped reality, I cede the point.

 

So Marvel is now saying that true adamantium is literally indestructible? I hope not. Defining things in such absolute terms always seems to me like they're trying to bypass those pesky laws of physics. I think I remember the demon S'ym breaking off one of an alternative universe Wolverine's claws. Was that also retconned to secondary adamantium?

 

Since we're talking about secondary adamantium, have we seen anything that quantifies what it can and cannot stand up to? Thor's hammer or the Hulk's fists are a start but we don't have a measurement of their kinetic energy that I know of. Can it withstand nova heat? A nuclear blast? Do we know it's melting point?

 

My guess is that even secondary adamantium has an extremely high melting point. If we arbitrarily say it's a million degrees F, then a light saber would have to generate at least that much heat to cut it. That seems unlikely because the Jedi holding the sword and anyone else in the room with him would be burnt to ashes.

 

Of course, I'm assuming that a lightsaber cuts because of the heat it generates. If it cuts without heat somehow, that would ruin my hypothesis. Does anyone have any information?

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I can say that lightsabers supposedly do utilize intense heat; the reason they don't burn everyone within their proximity is because of the built-in force containment field. Another thing to keep in mind is that manufactored plasma tends to be much hotter than its naturally occuring counterpart. On the sun's surface, things can get to be about 1-3 million degrees farenheit, which is extremely high. But compared to the capabilities of even today's technology, isotopes can be heated to temperatures as hot as 150-250 million degrees farenheit. Or more. As you can see, those figures are vastly different, and I daresay the technology in Star Wars is easily capable of crafting a potentially hotter plasma, though any number higher than that is mere speculation. Logical assumption, but still speculation.

 

When it comes to the melting point of secondary adamantium, I think it's safe to assume that the temperature extremes required to put it in a liquid state exceed 1,000,000 degrees. I say this because primary adamantium has withstood nuclear explosions, which are known to reach 150 million degrees. Though not as durable, secondary adamantium must not be that far behind, relatively speaking. Though that much is at least debatable. But now we have a better idea of what the heat may or may not be like within the blade of a lightsaber.

 

When it comes to Thor's hammer or Hulk's fists, I could actually work out how much kinetic force is behind their blows--at least, at minimum. If I did that, we could have a figure for what the force "must not fall below", so to speak. But a note: if you're reading a comic at all, prepare yourself emotionally and psychologically for some intense physics rap3.

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Nope, I didn't edit anything. I did use "energy" in the second paragraph, so the confusion is understandable. And I only remembered the fact of the Beyonder breaking the shield, not the dialogue that went with it. Since it appears he warped reality, I cede the point.

 

So Marvel is now saying that true adamantium is literally indestructible? I hope not. Defining things in such absolute terms always seems to me like they're trying to bypass those pesky laws of physics. I think I remember the demon S'ym breaking off one of an alternative universe Wolverine's claws. Was that also retconned to secondary adamantium?

 

Since we're talking about secondary adamantium, have we seen anything that quantifies what it can and cannot stand up to? Thor's hammer or the Hulk's fists are a start but we don't have a measurement of their kinetic energy that I know of. Can it withstand nova heat? A nuclear blast? Do we know it's melting point?

 

My guess is that even secondary adamantium has an extremely high melting point. If we arbitrarily say it's a million degrees F, then a light saber would have to generate at least that much heat to cut it. That seems unlikely because the Jedi holding the sword and anyone else in the room with him would be burnt to ashes.

 

Of course, I'm assuming that a lightsaber cuts because of the heat it generates. If it cuts without heat somehow, that would ruin my hypothesis. Does anyone have any information?

it can stand up to nukes but thor has damaged it and hulk has broken it. true admantium can only be destroyed by messing with it through transmutation or through reality warping it was true adamantium that magneto ripped out of wolverine but he effected it on the sub atomic level same as thanos when he turned it to rubber in the ig storyline.

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Just because the limits of today's technology can heat plasma that hot, how do you know lightsabers can? That's a logical misstep.

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Just because the limits of today's technology can heat plasma that hot, how do you know lightsabers can? That's a logical misstep.

 

Just because the limits of the Marvel Universe technology can't destroy Primary Adamantium, how do you know lightsabers can't?

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I can say that lightsabers supposedly do utilize intense heat; the reason they don't burn everyone within their proximity is because of the built-in force containment field.

 

That is logical. Is it canon? Even if not, I'd be inclined to accept it because it handles a logical problem with lightsabers so well.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that manufactored plasma tends to be much hotter than its naturally occuring counterpart. On the sun's surface, things can get to be about 1-3 million degrees farenheit, which is extremely high. But compared to the capabilities of even today's technology, isotopes can be heated to temperatures as hot as 150-250 million degrees farenheit. Or more. As you can see, those figures are vastly different, and I daresay the technology in Star Wars is easily capable of crafting a potentially hotter plasma, though any number higher than that is mere speculation. Logical assumption, but still speculation.

 

It is logical. It does raise a question of practicality. If you have a hand held device capable of producing an output at least equal to a tokamak generator and containing it in a tiny space, there have got to be more efficient uses to put it to than making a sword. But the ways of the jedi are mysterious and I will not question them. :)

 

When it comes to the melting point of secondary adamantium, I think it's safe to assume that the temperature extremes required to put it in a liquid state exceed 1,000,000 degrees. I say this because primary adamantium has withstood nuclear explosions, which are known to reach 150 million degrees. Though not as durable, secondary adamantium must not be that far behind, relatively speaking. Though that much is at least debatable. But now we have a better idea of what the heat may or may not be like within the blade of a lightsaber.

 

Yes! I like the direction of this conversation. Good theoretical limits makes the discussion make a lot more sense (for me at least).

 

Do we know anything about the materials of the Star Wars universe? I don't, but, if we knew something about the metal of the blast doors that Qui Gon cut through in Phantom Menace, it woudl tells us a lot. If a light saber takes x seconds to burn through a door made of a known metal of a known thickness it could get us a lot closer to a functioning temperature.

 

When it comes to Thor's hammer or Hulk's fists, I could actually work out how much kinetic force is behind their blows--at least, at minimum. If I did that, we could have a figure for what the force "must not fall below", so to speak. But a note: if you're reading a comic at all, prepare yourself emotionally and psychologically for some intense physics rap3.

 

LOL! It sounds like a tough problem just because there's some inconsistency in the comics about how hard they can hit. But, yes. I'd love to see your take on the physics and it would be useful for a discussion like this.

 

Off Topic: I remember the DC universe having a counterpart to adamantium called (IIRC) Inertron. I remember it from old Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes issues where it was used to do things like create shackles able to hold Superboy or even cage Validus.

 

How do you guys think inertron stacks up to adamantium? Is it possible that they;re two names for the same thing?

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Just because the limits of the Marvel Universe technology can't destroy Primary Adamantium, how do you know lightsabers can't?

Because we have feats of the lightsaber's cutting power. It's difficult for it to cut through about a foot of durasteel. Besides, in this situation, you have to prove that lightsabers can cut through adamantium not that lightsabers can't. The burden of proof lies on the argument which has a positive claim.

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As much as I loathe getting involved with any discussion with Force in it right now. I post what is nearest to the Star Wars equivalent to Adamantium. You may do your own research hereafter.

 

Quantum-Crystalline

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I would just like to state that Adamantium is a metal. All metal has a melting point. Lightsabers are very hot. Hotter than anything man made in the Marvel U. The Adamantium was melted when applied to Logan's bones.

 

Hmmmm..???

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Human Torch is a man. He can be hotter than a lightsaber. So much for no man made heat being as hot.

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Human Torch is a man. He can be hotter than a lightsaber. So much for no man made heat being as hot.

normal man. People over the weapon X program heated adamantium to turn it to liquid. A lightsaber is hotter than anything made by man. Torch is not man made. He is cosmically made.

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And what is your proof its hotter than anything made by man?

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...

 

*pokes a hole into Legacy's argument*

 

Once the metal hardens, it can never be melted again. A fact that's consistent throughout the comics.

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...

 

*pokes a hole into Legacy's argument*

 

Once the metal hardens, it can never be melted again. A fact that's consistent throughout the comics.

supposedly. Problem is, it was hardened before it was melted. Words say one thing and actions prove another. (ex. million exploding suns, Infinity Gems, Omega beams cant be dodged, etc.) Also Secondary Adamantium isnt pure Adamantium and has flaws such as melting points from the other iron ores in it.

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supposedly. Problem is, it was hardened before it was melted.

 

No, it wasn't.

 

Adamantium is not a naturally occurring metal. They create it in liquid form, and once it hardens, it can never be melted again. As Jaeger said, this is a consistent fact in Marvel.

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No, it wasn't.

 

Adamantium is not a naturally occurring metal. They create it in liquid form, and once it hardens, it can never be melted again. As Jaeger said, this is a consistent fact in Marvel.

The only problem with that is that everything has a melting/evaporating point. With enough constant heat, the saber would burn through it. Secondary adamantium is impure. Therefore its not complete adamantium. Therefore it has other minerals in it. Those minerals if nothing else would begin to melt, in essence; cutting through the adamantium object

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I'm of the opinion that a Lightsaber wouldn't be able to cut through Primary Adamantium.

 

Secondary, I'm very unsure but I'm not going to deny the possibility.

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