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DBZ feats! For those unaware.

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Is that from sheer power, or hitting a pressure point?

 

Mixture of both, he hit him in the temple a very dangerous point when hit correctly, but you'd need a lot of power behind a tongue to have any effect.

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Mixture of both, he hit him in the temple a very dangerous point when hit correctly, but you'd need a lot of power behind a tongue to have any effect.

I figured, but I don't think you need a lot of power to do that. With a mere poke to the fore head, Batman can kill someone.

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I figured, but I don't think you need a lot of power to do that. With a mere poke to the fore head, Batman can kill someone.

 

That's impossible...

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Okay Let's do a little math for feat.

 

The DBZ Wiki says Vegeta is 123lbs. 123 x 450 = 55350. Vegeta was 55,350lbs when he was training under that weight.

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Also, as stated by Vegeta, near death experiences make saiyans stronger.

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@ Force Echo

 

Nothing moves faste than light in the real universe. Galaxies are moving farther away from each other but not at that speed..

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Actually, they are. The galaxies themselves are not moving faster than light, but the space between two galaxies is expanding from us at a rate faster than light speed, thereby, the galaxies are moving away from us faster than the speed of light.

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@ Force Echo

 

Nothing moves faste than light in the real universe. Galaxies are moving farther away from each other but not at that speed..

 

Our knowledge of the universe is far too limited to categorically say that nothing moves faster than light.

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Well so far everything still falls under Einstein's rule or law of relatively. That the cosmic speed limit is up to light speed. Everything else is theoretical and just theories

 

Only worm holes allow faster than light and so far we cannot prove it

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General relativity applies to velocity calculated locally. When you have the space in between two objects expanding, both objects are moving away from each other, causing a phenomenon called co-moving distance. That's why the galaxies are moving away at speeds above c.

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Well so far everything still falls under Einstein's rule or law of relatively. That the cosmic speed limit is up to light speed. Everything else is theoretical and just theories

 

Only worm holes allow faster than light and so far we cannot prove it

 

I think, to be technical, nothing in a vacuum moves faster than light. I'm pretty sure they just discovered a molecule that travels faster than light in a vacuum though, so Einstein's rule might be dunzos.

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Please guys take your discussion elsewhere if it's not related to the topic.

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Heh, I forgot about that scene.

 

When Goku gets to Namek he reads Krillin's mind. He didn't even know if he could or not, he tried it and it worked.

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Yeah on my time off I did some searching for this for this topic, yeah the part you say is what I mean about them doing anything by trying and training for it. Goku did it w/o anyone teaching him which will show if he was being mindwiped he could potentially learn to resist or defend vs it based on how powerful someone is, maybe?

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Yeah on my time off I did some searching for this for this topic, yeah the part you say is what I mean about them doing anything by trying and training for it. Goku did it w/o anyone teaching him which will show if he was being mind wiped he could potentially learn to resist or defend vs it based on how powerful someone is, maybe?

I wouldn't say they can learn anything. We only know what they can learn by what is evident in the series. EDIT: Although Kid Buu learned instant transmission just by watching Goku do it. He could possibly be an exception due to his magical origins.

 

As far as resisting telepathic assaults, I think they could. In Marvel and DC it seems if you have a strong will power, you can resist such attacks. Goku is too pure and too focused to be mind f*cked. Vegeta's pride would probably fend off most attacks.

 

Someone like Darkseid could mind f*ck them hard though. Martian Manhunter is a very powerful telepath, and he could only keep Joker sane for a few moments. So, it seems as long as you are strong minded, you can resist mind attacks.

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Having a strong will, will only let you resist certain kinds of telepathy. A mind blast(like what Xavier used against Magneto, leaving him a vegetable) will have full effect, regardless of how strong your will is, the only way to defend against direct attacks like that, is to have telepathic defenses, more powerful than the person attacking you. Mind Control, illusions, etc. the more subtle methods of telepathic attacks, can be resisted by pure will power.

 

Basically, you just look at the effects. Is the telepath doing something that has to stay in place for a long time(mind control, illusions, rearranging memories, etc.), then it can be resisted by will power. Is the telepath doing an attack that simply has a 'here and now' effect(mind blast, telepathic spike, etc.) then no amount of will power will protect you.

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I meant anything that could be seen as a technique. Just saying that based on what is shown if Goku learned telepathy on a whim he could learn to counter just as easily.

 

Sirmethos you are right in the sense that Prof X an others can use telepathy on a wider range inducing many different kinds of attacks but if mind control is out, they have a great shot at taking hits from mind wipes or even basic mind reading. Good example is Hulk, no matter what Prof X does he can't see his mind or even begin to do damage. Hulk has no telepathic defense what so ever and then you have Goku that called Vegeta out for letting someone do it to him, that and the fact that Goku can and has learned techniques that others can't making this plausible. I mean if Magneto can resist it why not someone much more powerful in mind.

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I'll just address the few points that you have completely wrong.

 

"Just saying that based on what is shown if Goku learned telepathy on a whim he could learn to counter just as easily."

 

Not quite, there is quite a difference between reading someone's mind(something that pretty much even the weakest telepath with active powers can do), and creating active telepathic shields, especially powerful ones(something that takes skill and training, even for the most powerful telepaths).

 

Also, even if Goku could learn to create Telepathic shields, by the time in a match, that someone has mind blasted him, or taken him down with a telepathic spike, it would be too late.

 

To give you an analogy, the 'slower' more subtle telepathic attacks(mind control, illusions, mind alteration, etc.), is like throwing a net over someone's mind. If they have a strong enough will, they can break out of the net. The 'instant', more direct telepathic attacks(mind blast, telepathic spike, etc.), are like firing a bullet from a gun. Once it hits, it's too late to do anything about it. And you can't 'resist' it, either you block it, or it hits you.

 

 

"Good example is Hulk, no matter what Prof X does he can't see his mind or even begin to do damage."

 

That's not entirely correct. In the comics, they have, IIRC, never tried something like a mind blast/telepathic spike/etc. to just plain shut Hulk's brain down, or instantly mind wipe him. What they generally try is entering his mind, to telepathically calm his rage, or put telepathic 'shields' around the Hulk persona, so that Banner keeps his mind and the Hulk persona doesn't get out. And all of those fail, for several reasons. 1. Rage, Hulk's will power is extremely strong, and due to his rage, he instantly fights any telepathic intrusion with everything he's got. And considering Hulk's general level of rage when they try things like that, that's quite a lot. 2. Multiple personalities. Unlike a 'sane' mind, Hulk/Banner actually has several personalities inside his mind, and a telepath that tries one of the more subtle methods(which is what they, for some reason, always try with Hulk), then they have to fight not just one mind, but several minds at the same time.

 

Jean Grey(at the fight with Onslaught) showed that it is very much possible to enter, and affect, Hulk's mind when he is calm.

 

 

"Hulk has no telepathic defense what so ever"

 

Not quite true. Multiple Personalities is just as effective, if not more so, than telepathic shields, when dealing with the more 'subtle' methods of Telepathic attacks. And as I mentioned above, they've never actually(IIRC) tried the more 'direct' telepathic attacks. Primarily because of Banner.

 

 

"I mean if Magneto can resist it why not someone much more powerful in mind."

 

Two things with this

 

1. Magneto probably has one of the strongest, non-telepath, minds on earth.

2. Magneto's powers helps him shield his mind. Even without his helmet, he has extremely powerful mental shields.

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So hulks rage helps him from being effected, and Goku does what when he turns SsJ? He goes into a rage and screams, so if anything Goku's rage is just as powerful.

 

In Onslaught, Jean entered Hulk's mind but she was allowed by Hulk, not if Hulk resisted, and no mind wipe and other forms of telepathy will not work on him, the whole multiple personality for hulk is correct but not for that being the reason that he has defenses for telepathy

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1. Goku only goes into a rage when he transforms to SS at the beginning, after Cell, he doesn't do that anymore.

 

2. Goku's rage being just as powerful as Hulk's? Possible, but I highly doubt it.

 

3. We don't know if the more direct forms of telepathy would work on Hulk, since no one has ever actually tried.

 

and 4. Yes, having multiple personalities is a large part of why the more subtle forms of telepathic intrusion doesn't work on Hulk.

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I haven't been on a while, but I'd just like to put this up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlIVhyrRTwQ Thirty seconds is all that anyone needs to watch. Only Thirty Seconds.

 

Watch that and tell me why people say Brolly is "weaker" than Cell or "Super" Seventeen. Cell boasted about being able to blow away the sun(and didn't do it) Broly destroyed the south galaxy and didn't think anything of it.

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Broly got defeated by beings far weaker then him. Buu was able to fight Vegeto and Gotenks. Super 17 fought SS4 Goku. Broly got beat in the first movie by Goku who absorbed the energies of 3 weak fighters who were barely alive. In the second Adult Gohen who wasn't as powerful as he should have been was able to fight Broly. Broly couldn't overpower Goku, Gohan, and Goten.

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The problem with DBZ is that the character feats are highly inconsistent.

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