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By UMPIRE

Pirates vs. Cowboys

MATCH SCORE
Pirates: 1
Cowboys: 3

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Sogetsu Kazama vs. Jin Kazama

MATCH SCORE
Sogetsu Kazama: 1
Jin Kazama: 3

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Chun-Li vs. Rachel (Ninja Gaiden)

MATCH SCORE
Chun-Li: 2
Rachel (Ninja Gaiden): 5

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Baron Zemo vs. Khan Noonien Singh

MATCH SCORE
Baron Zemo: 3
Khan Noonien Singh: 0

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Shiki (Samurai Shodown) vs. Yang

MATCH SCORE
Shiki (Samurai Shodown): 4
Yang: 0

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Leonardo (Mirage) vs. Kyo Kusanagi

MATCH SCORE
Leonardo (Mirage): 3
Kyo Kusanagi: 1

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Uchiha Itachi vs. Nasty Boys

MATCH SCORE
Uchiha Itachi: 3
Nasty Boys: 2

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Asuka Kazama vs. Crimson Viper

MATCH SCORE
Asuka Kazama: 3
Crimson Viper: 4

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Raphael (Mirage) vs. Iori Yagami

MATCH SCORE
Raphael (Mirage): 6
Iori Yagami: 4

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Michael Myers vs. Jason Voorhees

MATCH SCORE
Michael Myers: 0
Jason Voorhees: 4

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Domino (Marvel Comics) vs. Cybermen (Mondasian)

MATCH SCORE
Domino (Marvel Comics): 2
Cybermen (Mondasian): 3

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Xu Wenwu vs. Sun Ce

MATCH SCORE
Xu Wenwu: 4
Sun Ce: 2

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Bonne Jenet vs. Darli Dagger

MATCH SCORE
Bonne Jenet: 2
Darli Dagger: 6

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12:15 - Clonetroopers vs. Orcs

MATCH SCORE
Clonetroopers: 0
Orcs: 11

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12:15 - Lucky the Leprechaun vs. Willy the Hillbilly

MATCH SCORE
Lucky the Leprechaun: 9
Willy the Hillbilly: 2

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12:15 - Copperhead vs. Shocker

MATCH SCORE
Copperhead: 5
Shocker: 6

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12:15 - The Flash (Wally West) vs. Supergirl

MATCH SCORE
The Flash (Wally West): 4
Supergirl: 8

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12:15 - Mandrill vs. Calender Man

MATCH SCORE
Mandrill: 7
Calender Man: 5

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12:15 - Necrons vs. The Shi'ar Empire

MATCH SCORE
Necrons: 5
The Shi\'ar Empire: 8

By UMPIRE

12:15 - Mr. Peanut vs. Flo (Progressive)

MATCH SCORE
Mr. Peanut: 2
Flo (Progressive): 8

The Covenant vs the US armed forces


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I think it's a bit much to say that it would always take any given unit 24-48 hours to deploy inside CONUS, but you do have a point: an effective response in the time allotted in the OP is more or less impossible. That's not really the matter being discussed, however. As with the point concerning the nukes hitting Covie ships, you kind of have to dismiss it and move on.

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So people are saying that the military's response time as stated in the OP is unrealistic, but not that the Covenant forces suddenly show up in real life?

 

That hilarity aside, what does it matter? The OP said the army was mobilized, so the army is mobilized via magic.

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Pulse Laser... Muzzle Velocity 300,000,000m/s, Range: LOS to Target. At 50,000 ft that's a distance of 300km.

 

So, Seraphs could shoot at F-22s and F-16's from a little more then 3x outside US combat range.

Seraph's are not air superiority fighters, they are space fighters, and are built for maneuvering in 0G. I don't know where you're getting that range from, its not on Halopedia, and even if that's a range, how do you know that's for atmosphere and not the Seraph's original enviroment- space? In space, our fighters would have an infinite range as well. Aslo, nothing in here says that Seraph's are radar invisible or the like, like F-22s are. F-22s can be equipped with missiles capable of firing 100 miles, so thats even your questionable 300km range is not 3x US range, its a little under double.

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Seraph's are not air superiority fighters, they are space fighters, and are built for maneuvering in 0G. I don't know where you're getting that range from, its not on Halopedia, and even if that's a range, how do you know that's for atmosphere and not the Seraph's original enviroment- space? In space, our fighters would have an infinite range as well. Aslo, nothing in here says that Seraph's are radar invisible or the like, like F-22s are. F-22s can be equipped with missiles capable of firing 100 miles, so thats even your questionable 300km range is not 3x US range, its a little under double.

No, I never Said that Seraphs were Air Superiority Fighters, it's just your Assumption, which means you are an Ass, and have just now tried to make an Ass of me as well.

 

I'm getting my range from the fact that the distance to the Horizon at 50,000ft is ~300km, which for a weapon capable of melting meters of Molecularly Strengthened Titanium in seconds, is not a problem.

 

I'm getting the Speed of it from the fact that Lasers are Light Speed Weapons.

 

I also never said anything about Radar, you just once again Assumed that I did, therefore once again showing how much of an Ass you are.

 

However even in light of an F-22's Radar Invisibility, it still Moves at High Speed, and Covenant Forces have Motion Radars. Motion Radars that have Extremely Long Range. I currently do not have my books on me at the moment, but I believe that ranges for higher powered Motion Radars like would be found on These fighters has a range of hundreds of Km.

 

Not only that, but Pulse Lasers are what Capitol Ships use to gun down incoming Missiles. What makes you think that a Missile fired from 100miles would even make it to the Seraph? The AIM-54 Phoenix has a speed of 1300m/s, from max range of 184km, it would take 2 minutes and 22 seconds to reach a Seraph... 2:22min to shoot the missile down with Pulse Lasers.

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No, I never Said that Seraphs were Air Superiority Fighters, it's just your Assumption, which means you are an Ass, and have just now tried to make an Ass of me as well.

 

I'm getting my range from the fact that the distance to the Horizon at 50,000ft is ~300km, which for a weapon capable of melting meters of Molecularly Strengthened Titanium in seconds, is not a problem.

 

I'm getting the Speed of it from the fact that Lasers are Light Speed Weapons.

 

I also never said anything about Radar, you just once again Assumed that I did, therefore once again showing how much of an Ass you are.

 

However even in light of an F-22's Radar Invisibility, it still Moves at High Speed, and Covenant Forces have Motion Radars. Motion Radars that have Extremely Long Range. I currently do not have my books on me at the moment, but I believe that ranges for higher powered Motion Radars like would be found on These fighters has a range of hundreds of Km.

 

Not only that, but Pulse Lasers are what Capitol Ships use to gun down incoming Missiles. What makes you think that a Missile fired from 100miles would even make it to the Seraph? The AIM-54 Phoenix has a speed of 1300m/s, from max range of 184km, it would take 2 minutes and 22 seconds to reach a Seraph... 2:22min to shoot the missile down with Pulse Lasers.

No, you just said Banshees are not what the Covenant uses for air superiority, they use Seraphs.

 

So basically, you're guessing the range of the laser from the strength of the laser? Even though this is in atm, not in space? What frequency is this laser at, because most lasers would easily dissipate at that range, especially IN ATMOSPHERE. Also, depending on the frequency of the laser, it could be deflected off the surface of the aircraft.

 

I never said you said anything about Radar, I was just pointing that out.

 

Again, nowhere on Halopedia does it mention motion sensors hundreds of kilometers in diameter. Do you have evidence to back this up?

 

There's a difference between shooting down a nuke or a space missile and shooting down a conventional small missile. Where is your proof that Seraphs can detect a target that small and shoot it down?

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1) No, you just said Banshees are not what the Covenant uses for air superiority, they use Seraphs.

 

2) So basically, you're guessing the range of the laser from the strength of the laser? Even though this is in atm, not in space? What frequency is this laser at, because most lasers would easily dissipate at that range, especially IN ATMOSPHERE. Also, depending on the frequency of the laser, it could be deflected off the surface of the aircraft.

 

3) I never said you said anything about Radar, I was just pointing that out.

 

4) Again, nowhere on Halopedia does it mention motion sensors hundreds of kilometers in diameter. Do you have evidence to back this up?

 

5) There's a difference between shooting down a nuke or a space missile and shooting down a conventional small missile. Where is your proof that Seraphs can detect a target that small and shoot it down?

1) I said:

 

Secondly, Banshees ARE NOT AIR SUPERIORITY FIGHTERS. They are more like light ground support craft. Seraphs though would dominate the skies...

 

LTR or GTFO

 

 

2) Unknown really. But the fact that they have the strength to literally boil away meters of Super Strong Titanium in seconds means that a few hundred Km of atmosphere shouldn't be a problem. Nor should it's deflection from the skin of the Fighters. In Atmosphere it might not be able to boil away meters of super hard titanium, but it most certainly could boil away the couple of millimeters of aluminum and titanium on most modern fighters.

 

 

3) And I was just pointing out how your point was pointless.

 

 

4) Like I said:

 

I currently do not have my books on me at the moment, but I believe that ranges for higher powered Motion Radars like would be found on These fighters has a range of hundreds of Km.

 

So, once again LTR or GTFO

 

 

5a) [Detection] Motion Radars can sense things as small as a Basketball or a Fish... They can see the Missile. Also, Motion Radars work on Motion, what is motion you may ask well, simply put it's the action of something Moving. So if it can see it's size and see it moving, then it can see it.

 

5b) [shooting] It has more then 2 minutes to shoot it down at max range. It would be able to see it and take its time shooting it down. Seeing as how a Pulse Laser is enough to kill a Jet, and can hit it instantly, it can kill a missile.

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Pulse Laser... Muzzle Velocity 300,000,000m/s, Range: LOS to Target. At 50,000 ft that's a distance of 300km.

 

So, Seraphs could shoot at F-22s and F-16's from a little more then 3x outside US combat range.

 

These pulse lasers move at noticeably sub light speeds.

 

 

Subsonic even. Also the wiki turned up nothing so if you could direct me to the source you found those numbers at that would be great.

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These pulse lasers move at noticeably sub light speeds.

 

 

Subsonic even. Also the wiki turned up nothing so if you could direct me to the source you found those numbers at that would be great.

Weapons Layout of a Sareph Fighter: Heavy plasma cannon, Pulse laser, Plasma charge...

 

What you saw were Heavy Plasma Cannon shots. But there's something wrong with that showing, it's that the Sarephs didn't use their Pulse Lasers, probably because they had just used up a lot of power jumping into combat range.

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Weapons Layout of a Sareph Fighter: Heavy plasma cannon, Pulse laser, Plasma charge...

 

What you saw were Heavy Plasma Cannon shots. But there's something wrong with that showing, it's that the Sarephs didn't use their Pulse Lasers, probably because they had just used up a lot of power jumping into combat range.

 

Well that's fine and dandy then but I'd still like to know where you got those numbers. Particularly the ones on the range. And besides, if the pules lasers are that effective then why aren't they using them to knock all UNSC opposition out of the sky? UNSC Longswords and Sabers use missiles too (ones that appear to be subsonic I might add, but maybe I'm seeing them wrong) and I don't see Seraphs blasting them out of the air with pin-point precision.

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If you're talking about his range thing, I believe that's a formula you can look up online. Horizon or something, you input your position at sea level (or above or below it) and you can figure out your visible range up to the curve of the Earth or something like that. That's probably where he got his 300km range at 50k ft.

 

Also, I think the Seraph fighters don't shoot down missiles with their pulse lasers like the capital ships do.

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Well that's fine and dandy then but I'd still like to know where you got those numbers. Particularly the ones on the range. And besides, if the pules lasers are that effective then why aren't they using them to knock all UNSC opposition out of the sky? UNSC Longswords and Sabers use missiles too (ones that appear to be subsonic I might add, but maybe I'm seeing them wrong) and I don't see Seraphs blasting them out of the air with pin-point precision.

Well, I never said they'd have pin point precision with their lasers, and I don't think they're omnidirectional... So if a Longsword or Saber is on their tail firing missiles, it's not going to be able to turn and fire at them. And as you could see from that clip you showed, they were quite close to one another, practically knife fight range for fighter craft.

 

As for why Longswords are usually equal to Seraphs in combat, That I can't say, but presumably in the void of space the larger Longsword can take more of a pounding then Seraphs due to their sheer bulk and their multiple Tank caliber cannons.

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So people are saying that the military's response time as stated in the OP is unrealistic, but not that the Covenant forces suddenly show up in real life?

 

That hilarity aside, what does it matter? The OP said the army was mobilized, so the army is mobilized via magic.

 

Well, it's kind of like examining the real life military as you would any other fictional faction/force and their weakness. It would be like arguing that Republic forces couldn't REALLY mobilize within 2 hours if Coruscant got attacked.

 

But yes, I do agree with you there, which is why I said you just have to dismiss it. Some Suspension of Disbelief is required for an OP. But yeah, the whole deployment time thing was just a minor nitpick to be pointed out, not an actual argument.

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1) I said:

 

 

 

LTR or GTFO

 

 

2) Unknown really. But the fact that they have the strength to literally boil away meters of Super Strong Titanium in seconds means that a few hundred Km of atmosphere shouldn't be a problem. Nor should it's deflection from the skin of the Fighters. In Atmosphere it might not be able to boil away meters of super hard titanium, but it most certainly could boil away the couple of millimeters of aluminum and titanium on most modern fighters.

 

 

3) And I was just pointing out how your point was pointless.

 

 

4) Like I said:

 

 

 

So, once again LTR or GTFO

 

 

5a) [Detection] Motion Radars can sense things as small as a Basketball or a Fish... They can see the Missile. Also, Motion Radars work on Motion, what is motion you may ask well, simply put it's the action of something Moving. So if it can see it's size and see it moving, then it can see it.

 

5b) [shooting] It has more then 2 minutes to shoot it down at max range. It would be able to see it and take its time shooting it down. Seeing as how a Pulse Laser is enough to kill a Jet, and can hit it instantly, it can kill a missile.

1) Are you freaking stupid? You said that Seraphs dominate the skies, thats explicitly what you said. Dominate the skies=Air Superiority, thats the entire definition of Air superiority you illiterate dumbass.

 

2) Again, the amplitude of the laser has little to do with how far it carries before spreading noneffictively, its the wavelength and how concentrated the light is. It dosen't matter how strong your red nightlight is, its not gonna carry farther than a blue or a UV one. Do you have any clips whatsoever or any descriptions whatsoever about Seraphs firing said laser?

 

3) No, you weren't, you said that I assumed you said something about RADAR, which is simply not true. At least have the courtesy of reading what YOU yourself said, let alone people who are much smarter than you (namely everyone). And since you have no proof that Seraphs are equipped with Motion sensors, basically, the Raptors can see the Seraphs but the Seraph's can't see the Raptors.

 

4) So basically, you have no evidence.

 

5) Right, because a simple infantry motion sensor is gonna have the same precision as one that extends over hundreds of kilometers. If said motion sensor even exists.

I'm not doubting that one hit from the laser could destroy a missile, I'm doubting that the Seraph would be able to see or get any kind of lock whatsoever on said missile to shoot it down. And even though it takes 2:22, you've yet to prove that lasers can fire the complete range, so in reality, the ship might only have 20 seconds while the missile is in range of its laser.

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Well, I never said they'd have pin point precision with their lasers, and I don't think they're omnidirectional... So if a Longsword or Saber is on their tail firing missiles, it's not going to be able to turn and fire at them. And as you could see from that clip you showed, they were quite close to one another, practically knife fight range for fighter craft.

 

As for why Longswords are usually equal to Seraphs in combat, That I can't say, but presumably in the void of space the larger Longsword can take more of a pounding then Seraphs due to their sheer bulk and their multiple Tank caliber cannons.

 

Then what's stopping an F-22 from doing the same thing but at Mach 1.5? It wouldn't be too difficult for one to maneuver behind a Seraph then kick it's ass with sidewinder missiles. Also if they can hit targets that are 300km away then why didn't they? In the clip the Seraphs didn't start engaging targets until they were within about 500-200m or so. Practically eye to eye in fighter-craft terms. You never explained why the Seraphs weren't busting out the hyper accurate, hyper deadly pulse lasers when they started going toe to toe with the Sabers even when they were coming at them from behind.

 

Getting attacked from behind is a valid excuse and I never said that they had the ability to fire at the rear. However at no point in time do they ever attempt to intercept incoming projectiles with pulse lasers at any point in the game, even the ones coming directly at them. Are their targeting systems even capable of handling a projectile moving at subsonic speeds let alone supersonic?

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Then what's stopping an F-22 from doing the same thing but at Mach 1.5? It wouldn't be too difficult for one to maneuver behind a Seraph then kick it's ass with sidewinder missiles. Also if they can hit targets that are 300km away then why didn't they? In the clip the Seraphs didn't start engaging targets until they were within about 500-200m or so. Practically eye to eye in fighter-craft terms. You never explained why the Seraphs weren't busting out the hyper accurate, hyper deadly pulse lasers when they started going toe to toe with the Sabers even when they were coming at them from behind.

 

Getting attacked from behind is a valid excuse and I never said that they had the ability to fire at the rear. However at no point in time do they ever attempt to intercept incoming projectiles with pulse lasers at any point in the game, even the ones coming directly at them. Are their targeting systems even capable of handling a projectile moving at subsonic speeds let alone supersonic?

He did give a possibility:

 

But there's something wrong with that showing, it's that the Sarephs didn't use their Pulse Lasers, probably because they had just used up a lot of power jumping into combat range.
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He did give a possibility:

 

He did, except that I noticed that they never seem to use it in other areas either. When they were attacking the facility I never saw them flash pulse lasers once. And besides, if one or two jumps is enough to drain their power to the point where they can't fire their pulse lasers who's to say that they won't hit the same handicap again and again?

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Did the Seraphs have shields in Operation: TORPEDO? They did in Halo: Reach. So either Operation: TORPEDO is retconned away (not the entire book, but that particular segment with two Seraphs being brought down) OR the missiles on the YSS-1000s aren't as good as the M19-B SAMs (one thing I have no clue about is why the missiles bounce off the shields of Seraphs instead of detonate).

 

Either way, nothing says the Seraphs use the pulse lasers as a PD system (and I don't believe Skirmisher ever implied they did). In fact the Armament article mentions that the pulse laser and plasma charge are used for bombing runs and strafing. Maybe they can't be used against starfighters? Wouldn't surprise me, the Covenant rarely uses missiles for some reason. They don't like auto-tracking death arrows.

 

EDIT: Oh wait, nvm, he did suggest they be used as PD. Yeah, either way, the article says they are used in strafing and bombing runs, so my prior suggestion still stands, maybe the UNSC starfigthers aren't swatted out of the sky by super awesome pulse lasers is because the weapons can't be used that way.

 

In fact if they could, space dogfights would be different in Halo, since for one, the UNSC would never get any kills on starfighters armed with lasers while using bullets and missiles.

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Did the Seraphs have shields in Operation: TORPEDO? They did in Halo: Reach. So either Operation: TORPEDO is retconned away (not the entire book, but that particular segment with two Seraphs being brought down) OR the missiles on the YSS-1000s aren't as good as the M19-B SAMs (one thing I have no clue about is why the missiles bounce off the shields of Seraphs instead of detonate).

 

Either way, nothing says the Seraphs use the pulse lasers as a PD system (and I don't believe Skirmisher ever implied they did). In fact the Armament article mentions that the pulse laser and plasma charge are used for bombing runs and strafing. Maybe they can't be used against starfighters? Wouldn't surprise me, the Covenant rarely uses missiles for some reason. They don't like auto-tracking death arrows.

 

EDIT: Oh wait, nvm, he did suggest they be used as PD. Yeah, either way, the article says they are used in strafing and bombing runs, so my prior suggestion still stands, maybe the UNSC starfigthers aren't swatted out of the sky by super awesome pulse lasers is because the weapons can't be used that way.

 

In fact if they could, space dogfights would be different in Halo, since for one, the UNSC would never get any kills on starfighters armed with lasers while using bullets and missiles.

 

Exactly. Covenant fighters seem to lack the advanced PD systems that skirmisher implies they have, or all fighter engagements with the UNSC would end the same way. But what really damns them in the end is their lack of speed. In nearly every instance they are seen they barely seem to go faster then 400-600 mph. This is a critical flaw when Mach 1 is child's play for your average modern fighter. An F-16 would dance supersonic circles around Covenent fighters while blasting them with missiles from kilometers away. Real life: 1 Visual Sci Fi: 0

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In nearly every instance they are seen they barely seem to go faster then 400-600 mph. This is a critical flaw when Mach 1 is child's play for your average modern fighter. An F-16 would dance supersonic circles around Covenent fighters while blasting them with missiles from kilometers away. Real life: 1 Visual Sci Fi: 0

 

Except that the Longswords and Seraphs are all faster than the Pelican, which can reach escape velocity. It therefore follows that Seraphs (and Longswords) can reach speeds in excess of 11 km/s.

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Except that the Longswords and Seraphs are all faster than the Pelican, which can reach escape velocity. It therefore follows that Seraphs (and Longswords) can reach speeds in excess of 11 km/s.

 

I've never seen or heard of a Pelican (or a Seraph for that matter) going Mach 32 or faster, but if you can show me an instance of this I will retract my statement. I know that Longswords and Sabers use booster rockets to achieve escape velocity but I wonder what type of propulsion system that Pelicans and Seraphs use as I've never heard of either using booster rockets. Also remember that escape velocity varies by the gravity of the planet.

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I've never seen or heard of a Pelican (or a Seraph for that matter) going Mach 32 or faster, but if you can show me an instance of this I will retract my statement. I know that Longswords and Sabers use booster rockets to achieve escape velocity but I wonder what type of propulsion system that Pelicans and Seraphs use as I've never heard of either using booster rockets. Also remember that escape velocity varies by the gravity of the planet.

 

Sgt. Johnson, Lt. Elias Haverson, Cpl. Locklear, and PO2 Sheila Polaski all escaped the destruction of Installation 04 on a Pelican (the Halos have artificial gravity according to Cortana in The Fall of Reach pg 304). Apparently Ghost of Onyx, and First Strike also have instances of Pelicans reaching orbit. The commercial Birth of a Spartan shows a Pelican reaching the space station UNSC Hopefull.

 

Similarly the Longsword Master Cheif escapes in reached escape velocity without the aid of boosters. The Saber uses boosters, but Longswords and Pelican's don't.

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Sgt. Johnson, Lt. Elias Haverson, Cpl. Locklear, and PO2 Sheila Polaski all escaped the destruction of Installation 04 on a Pelican (the Halos have artificial gravity according to Cortana in The Fall of Reach pg 304). Apparently Ghost of Onyx, and First Strike also have instances of Pelicans reaching orbit. The commercial Birth of a Spartan shows a Pelican reaching the space station UNSC Hopefull.

 

Similarly the Longsword Master Cheif escapes in reached escape velocity without the aid of boosters. The Saber uses boosters, but Longswords and Pelican's don't.

 

Escape velocity on a Halo (one that was crumbling at that) would probably have somewhat less of an escape velocity then an earth sized planet. Don't Halos artificial gravity work through centrifugal force as well? In that case escaping gravity would be much much easier. And exactly how are the Pelicans propelled? If they work through any type of anti gravity system then wouldn't things like escape velocity would become a non issue as the vehicle could ascend into orbit at a much slower rate then what is normally necessary?

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Escape velocity on a Halo (one that was crumbling at that) would probably have somewhat less of an escape velocity then an earth sized planet. Don't Halos artificial gravity work through centrifugal force as well?

 

The Fall of Reach pg 304:

 

"Captain," Cortana said, "the object is clearly artificial. There's a gravity field that controls the ring's spin and keeps the atmosphere inside. At this range--and with this gear--I can't say with one hundred percent certainty, but it appears that the ring has an oxygen-nitrigen atomsphere and Earth-normal gravity."

 

The Halo wasn't being ripped apart by explosions at that moment.

 

In that case escaping gravity would be much much easier. And exactly how are the Pelicans propelled? If they work through any type of anti gravity system then wouldn't things like escape velocity would become a non issue as the vehicle could ascend into orbit at a much slower rate then what is normally necessary?

 

Technically, escape velocity doesn't matter for powered flight, you could go slower than 11 km/s (on Earth), at say... 1 m/s. You'd escape Earth's gravity... but you'd need a lot of fuel to keep that up. Even so, the Pelican's and Longswords on Installation 04 had less than 15 minutes to escape (I dunno how close MC does it in the book, since he had 15 minutes to escape but reaches the Longsword with time almost up) from I04. UNSC ships, (except maybe their capital ships?) don't have anti-gravity, they all use some sort of nuclear powered jet.

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