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By UMPIRE

Pirates vs. Cowboys

MATCH SCORE
Pirates: 1
Cowboys: 3

By UMPIRE

Sogetsu Kazama vs. Jin Kazama

MATCH SCORE
Sogetsu Kazama: 1
Jin Kazama: 3

By UMPIRE

Chun-Li vs. Rachel (Ninja Gaiden)

MATCH SCORE
Chun-Li: 2
Rachel (Ninja Gaiden): 5

By UMPIRE

Baron Zemo vs. Khan Noonien Singh

MATCH SCORE
Baron Zemo: 3
Khan Noonien Singh: 0

By UMPIRE

Shiki (Samurai Shodown) vs. Yang

MATCH SCORE
Shiki (Samurai Shodown): 4
Yang: 0

By UMPIRE

Leonardo (Mirage) vs. Kyo Kusanagi

MATCH SCORE
Leonardo (Mirage): 3
Kyo Kusanagi: 1

By UMPIRE

Uchiha Itachi vs. Nasty Boys

MATCH SCORE
Uchiha Itachi: 3
Nasty Boys: 2

By UMPIRE

Asuka Kazama vs. Crimson Viper

MATCH SCORE
Asuka Kazama: 3
Crimson Viper: 4

By UMPIRE

Raphael (Mirage) vs. Iori Yagami

MATCH SCORE
Raphael (Mirage): 6
Iori Yagami: 4

By UMPIRE

Michael Myers vs. Jason Voorhees

MATCH SCORE
Michael Myers: 0
Jason Voorhees: 4

By UMPIRE

Domino (Marvel Comics) vs. Cybermen (Mondasian)

MATCH SCORE
Domino (Marvel Comics): 2
Cybermen (Mondasian): 3

By UMPIRE

Xu Wenwu vs. Sun Ce

MATCH SCORE
Xu Wenwu: 4
Sun Ce: 2

By UMPIRE

Bonne Jenet vs. Darli Dagger

MATCH SCORE
Bonne Jenet: 2
Darli Dagger: 6

By UMPIRE

12:15 - Clonetroopers vs. Orcs

MATCH SCORE
Clonetroopers: 0
Orcs: 11

By UMPIRE

12:15 - Lucky the Leprechaun vs. Willy the Hillbilly

MATCH SCORE
Lucky the Leprechaun: 9
Willy the Hillbilly: 2

By UMPIRE

12:15 - Copperhead vs. Shocker

MATCH SCORE
Copperhead: 5
Shocker: 6

By UMPIRE

12:15 - The Flash (Wally West) vs. Supergirl

MATCH SCORE
The Flash (Wally West): 4
Supergirl: 8

By UMPIRE

12:15 - Mandrill vs. Calender Man

MATCH SCORE
Mandrill: 7
Calender Man: 5

By UMPIRE

12:15 - Necrons vs. The Shi'ar Empire

MATCH SCORE
Necrons: 5
The Shi\'ar Empire: 8

By UMPIRE

12:15 - Mr. Peanut vs. Flo (Progressive)

MATCH SCORE
Mr. Peanut: 2
Flo (Progressive): 8

New Doomsday feats


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People who base their opinions on a comic based on how weak or powerful a character is are not comic book fans. There are plenty of fantastic stories, from both Marvel and DC, featuring characters of various power levels, including some of the characters you listed above. You likely don’t care of course. I doubt you’ve ever bothered to read a comic outside of your very narrow interest.

 

I’ll never get the hatred some Marvel and DC fans have for the other company. They aren’t that different at all.

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Oh no don't get me wrong I read everything from batman to new avengers. In my pull list you will see

 

New avengers

X-23

Daken

Osborn

Thunderrbolts

X-men

X-men legancy

Uncanny X-men

Uncanny X-force

Batman

Justice League

X-factor

And Thor. I read a bunch of different stuff and oje thing I can tell you or any comic book follower of both will tell you is the power levels are VERY different and the willingness to take a life is different.

 

For example

Batman

Superman

Flash

Martain manhunter

Any from the batman family

Any captain marvel affiliate doesn't and won't take a life

 

Captain america(time to time if need be)

Punisher

Wolverine

Hawkeye

Moonknight

X-force(more murders than 5 years of all of batmans foes)

X-factor

And even thor(from time to time if need be)

 

Now you have all of these popular titles of heroes that DO take lives regularly. And marvel doesn't have that many high powered people as dc does. That's why sentry was a big deal. Marbel has mostly street level and medium powered people. Marvel does has its share of cosmic but that's why they are cosmiv becuase they don't belong on earth. Those are two big differences

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You're pointing at differences in power level. A terrible argument. How about story telling? Writing quality? Art?

 

Looking at your pull list, I've not read a great deal of X-Men so I can't really help you there, but I see Batman on there. Have you read The Dark Knight Returns? Arkham Asylum? The Killing Joke? Those are just three examples of his absolute best. And Justice League, have you read the Grant Morrison run? As for characters you don't like, have you ever read All Star Superman? For the Man Who Has Everything? Kingdom Come? Brilliant stories featuring Superman, with him being even more powerful than normal in both Kingdom Come and All Star, and yet they are fantastic comics with a huge amount of critical acclaim. You can’t really say “this character sucks†without reading their best.

 

 

And if you’re so concerned about power levels, then why are you reading Justice League? Granted, I don’t know the current incarnation of the team – I read trades, not single issues, so I’m never completely up to date.

 

EDIT: There are also Marvel characters that won't kill and DC characters that will.

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You're pointing at differences in power level. A terrible argument. How about story telling? Writing quality? Art?

 

Looking at your pull list, I've not read a great deal of X-Men so I can't really help you there, but I see Batman on there. Have you read The Dark Knight Returns? Arkham Asylum? The Killing Joke? Those are just three examples of his absolute best. And Justice League, have you read the Grant Morrison run? As for characters you don't like, have you ever read All Star Superman? For the Man Who Has Everything? Kingdom Come? Brilliant stories featuring Superman, with him being even more powerful than normal in both Kingdom Come and All Star, and yet they are fantastic comics with a huge amount of critical acclaim. You can’t really say “this character sucks†without reading their best.

 

 

And if you’re so concerned about power levels, then why are you reading Justice League? Granted, I don’t know the current incarnation of the team – I read trades, not single issues, so I’m never completely up to date.

 

EDIT: There are also Marvel characters that won't kill and DC characters that will.

I read hush , arkham aslylum and I read batman RIP and battle of the cowl.. I'm telling you I'm talking from experience. I also read kigdom come as well. I LOVED that one. And the storied are more detailed and gritty when it comes to batman and his network. I like justice leauge because its more about how they work as a team. Oh yeah and I read all start superman. And I know there are dc people who do kill even wonder woman can take a life here and there. But what I'm saying is in the MOST popular titles of dc is less inclinde to kill where as the most popular heroes in marvel kill.

 

Superman and batman vow never to take a life no matter how bad they have it coming.

 

What about captain america and wolverine. If wolverine doesn't kill people call him a pussy! Lol marvel is more laxed about that. I'm not talking villians just heroes. Grant morrison is very good at what he doesm but while your giving me ones to read you should read. X-men second coming. Read that and tell me how do you like that. And people think the 90s x-men was the best roster! Lol ha cyclops is the general of all mutants now so many people at his disposal that it wouldn't even be a good match between them

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You're technically correct in stating that Achilles isn't "A mythology." He's a CHARACTER in Greek Mythology. He was dipped in the river Styx as a baby, to make him invulnerable. Got shot in the heel. Played by Brad Pitt in a really ponderous action movie. Yes, he is part of Classical Greek mythology. No, feigning surprise toward a decision made in a comic book you never read doesn't make sense. (Nor is it even particularly believable in your case, since you can't spell Iliad correctly.)

 

Just for everyone's edification, pretending to be "outraged" by a questionable decision in mainstream comics has never made any sense. Obsessing over comics is fine, (this is coming from a guy who made a list of historical costume inconsistencies in Asterix comics for a French History report,) but getting upset because a tertiary Wonder Woman character got beat up in a comic book is DUUUUUUMB. It's a comic book, and since Achilles Warkiller has both Wolverine levels of regeneration and Gladiator's old "confidence = strength level" shtick there's no reason to suspect he won't be back on his feet in two weeks to help the Outsiders battle... some other Outsiders. (Not that you were reading Outsiders to begin with, but whatever.)

 

I want to make a second point here: There is no reason to assume anything about this version of Doomsday. For all we know he may be limited to having the powers of Steel, Eradicator, Superboy, and Cyborg Superman. There is no reason to assume he's been augmented when he could've just as easily been rewritten.

 

I wasn't outraged, it just pissed me off to see a character that holds a special importance to me being jobbed to a character with a total lack of depth, characterization and any defining traits outside of being a mindless monster and offing Superman one time. But yeah, I did over react a bit. It's just DC being DC.

 

Kind of like you with the Warbound and Parademons match a while back on CBuB.

 

 

People who base their opinions on a comic based on how weak or powerful a character is are not comic book fans. There are plenty of fantastic stories, from both Marvel and DC, featuring characters of various power levels, including some of the characters you listed above. You likely don’t care of course. I doubt you’ve ever bothered to read a comic outside of your very narrow interest.

 

I’ll never get the hatred some Marvel and DC fans have for the other company. They aren’t that different at all.

 

Every bit about that statement = the god damned truth.

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I also read kigdom come as well. I LOVED that one. Oh yeah and I read all start superman.

You loved Kingdom Come and read All Star Superman, and yet earlier you said you couldn't make a good story with Superman. Clearly you see that's not correct?

 

As for the rest of your post, I couldn't care less about "grittiness" or weather people kill and don't see how that makes a story better or worse in any way.

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Really, xmen4life? Really? You just have to bring that "all superheroes should be like the Punisher" attitude to every thread you post in?

 

[RANT] Let's make one thing clear, since it seems it's not getting through: Comic books depict fantasy. They (should) focus on story-telling, drama, character development, that kind of thing. Sometimes, they may be used as a means of conveying political or ideological messages, but only the soap box types actually make comic books about their beliefs (Steve Ditko, anyone?). The question "Should superheroes kill?" is way older than you seem to think. With idealistic characters, there are multiple ways of answering that question without jeopardizing what makes the character who he/she is, and their policy may be presented in favourable or unfavourable light depending on the intention of the writer. A good writer can look beyond whatever political and ideological disagreements they might have with the character to tell an entertaining story. They might use a combination of messages, ranging from heartlessly practical to loftily ideological solutions. When there are so many brutal vigilantes one could easily use as their poster boy, why should the combination of messages for someone like Batman be "what describes a hero, nudge nudge" and "how would a misantrophic redneck solve this dilemma, wink wink"?

 

Since you're apparently very well-versed in comics, having read at least ten different titles from two companies, you're surely aware that countless heroes have seen or presented at least one rebuttal each for the "kill everyone" argument, right? The Joker episode in HUSH is cleverly written, with Batman nearly murdering the Joker for a crime he, for once, is not guilty of. Daredevil has had Frank Miller, Ann Nocenti and many others write a defense his socially responsible view, and has compared opinions with the Punisher quite often. Spider-Man knows that committing one murder, however justified it seems, would make it that much easier to take the next life, and then the next. All this without mentioning Captain America. You get the idea.

 

You could just as easily write a response as to why said characters should kill, but what's the point of that, since they're clearly been established as people who don't use lethal force? Why not be content with all the antiheroes we have? Not all people think alike, why should fictional protagonists? [/RANT]

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Um did anyone actually read my posts? I didn't say heroes should kill! I said that's the difference between marvel and dc when someone said there isn't much of a difference. So please everyone calm down. Lol I LITTERALLY said I didn't like DC because of why???? They over power their people to the point it is just ridiculous and when you over power people that much you have to make them "forget" to use their power or have something around that makes it so they can't use it.

 

Now I explain why I read justice leauge and batman. Batman I have no qualms with except for him doing things that he shouldn't be doing but hey that happens to the best of heroes.

DC also have too many sidekicks/jrs/boy/girls(supergirl, powergirl,superboy,aqua lad, damion robin,robin,nightwing,red robin,batgirl,batwoman, kid flash, wondergirl, donna troy) after a while it become a bit much.

And I said I hate the fact DC overpowers there people. I didn't say DC stories suck or they don't have good characters. So please READ my posts.

 

My qualm is about making people that powerful hurts stories sometimes because allstar superman was an alternate timeline/dimensions so was kingdom come. I'm talking current ongoing series not stories, because stories like arkham asylum and allstar superman sometimes and most times don't reflect what's going on and doesn't tie in with any current series PLUS they are like custum tailored for how smart batman is and how powerful superman is. I like justice leauge but they don't or they have to omit peoples power a lot. Because with superman, wonder woman, martian manhunter,(three people who lift well over 1000000 tons) flash, green lantern, superman, vixen(who can match flashes speed) 4 people who are near the speed of light there fights should be rather quickly fought if going by comic cannon.

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You loved Kingdom Come and read All Star Superman, and yet earlier you said you couldn't make a good story with Superman. Clearly you see that's not correct?

 

As for the rest of your post, I couldn't care less about "grittiness" or weather people kill and don't see how that makes a story better or worse in any way.

Kingdom come and allstar superman are one shots, different timelines. You read it one time and not much comes from it as far as sequel is concerned. And kingdom come used all of his powers even though I didn't see him use his breath once though or x ray vision to see captain marvel was being mind controled. And sidenote how the hell did captain marvel die in that explosion of captain marvel is basically supermans equal? I didn't like that. But oh well. And allstar superman was dying. All of these things tie in together because when people debate who superman can beat on cbub they go by feats right? They say he's faster than light base strength is well over 10000000000 tons heat vison hotter than the sun and breath that can freeze on the spot. THEN he had an issue with doomsday, mongol, solomon grundy and others which makes me like um why didn't he use freeze breath or heat vision. And then its a debate between weakness to magic and being vulnerable to magic.

 

That is all I'm saying. I prefer marvel over DC. Not to say DC doesn't have its ups and high points(because I do read some DC titles) its just as a WHOLE marvel is better to me.

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That complaint might be valied if you didn't have Thor on your pull list. Are you aware of half of the insane things Thor has done with that hammer of his over the years? The same complaint can be lodged at him as Superman. So what's your point?

 

The only valid reason you should have for disliking a comic is bad writing or terrible art. Powers are not a reason.

 

It's funny that you point out the fact those stories are out of continuity as if it matters in the slightest, because it doesn't.

 

And I couldn't care less about CBUB and feats. This is talking about what makes a good comic, not mindless crap like that that means nothing to good story telling.

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That complaint might be valied if you didn't have Thor on your pull list. Are you aware of half of the insane things Thor has done with that hammer of his over the years? The same complaint can be lodged at him as Superman. So what's your point?

 

The only valid reason you should have for disliking a comic is bad writing or terrible art. Powers are not a reason.

 

It's funny that you point out the fact those stories are out of continuity as if it matters in the slightest, because it doesn't.

 

And I couldn't care less about CBUB and feats. This is talking about what makes a good comic, not mindless crap like that that means nothing to good story telling.

And I do hear where your coming from but Thor has been revamped multiple times. Examples. When he was rune thor king. He's not anymore so those powers are not there.

Odin force thor he doesn't have that anymore so again those feats are waived. Regular thor hasn't done anything recently that hasn't always been said . No new powers or anything. Some time travel, teleport, absorb energy, make storms, only he can lift it. That's pretty much all he has now I have seen anything new pop up.

 

Um I listed sotries that were great to me so you can get an idea of what I like. Kingdom come was done brilliantly! I praise DC for that. Battle for the cowl as well. I liked hush too. I'm a marvel fan but when stuff is good its good. I'm no fan boy and dislike all things DC. I just have issue with things like if superman has this power in one comic and when it comes to a time where that SAME power is needed then"forgets/dont use/doesnt acknowledge" it then I'm like WTF. That's not dumb at all. I would be the same pissed if spidey forgot his spider sense logan forgot his claws, and if emma forst forgets she's a telepath!

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The problem with Superman, and most of the Extremely High powered characters, are that they have so many powers that the writers either forget that they have them, or don't want to use them because it would make the story boring.

 

Marvel has the exact same problem with Their high tier characters.

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The problem with Superman, and most of the Extremely High powered characters, are that they have so many powers that the writers either forget that they have them, or don't want to use them because it would make the story boring.

 

Marvel has the exact same problem with Their high tier characters.

Silver Surfer- One of my favorite comics back when I was a kid. Still read the old ones now, even though he dosen't have his own title now. He was a very interesting character, had some interesting villains, and while the plot was sometimes lacking, Surfer's inner monologue and his reaction to the sins of mankind was well written.

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@xmen4life:

 

the willingness to take a life is different

 

there are dc people who do kill even wonder woman can take a life here and there. But what I'm saying is in the MOST popular titles of dc is less inclinde to kill where as the most popular heroes in marvel kill.

 

Superman and batman vow never to take a life no matter how bad they have it coming.

 

If wolverine doesn't kill people call him a pussy!

 

Apparently, I misread all these. Clearly, the idea of you bringing up your absolutely invalid argument about willingness/unwillingness to kill in this thread was just my delusional imagination. My bad.

 

So please everyone calm down.

 

It strikes me as very amusing when someone without basic grammar skills writes several rants detailing their obsession with a certain aspect in comics, and when someone gives them a comprehensibly written response, the aforementioned obsesser tells them to calm down.

 

Finally, to the thread itself: Umm... Whatever. I'm done with Doomsday anyway.

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Like kenetic do you not undertsand.

 

1 I was told there isn't that much of a difference between marvel and DC and I explain some differences. I didn't say I want characters to kill or if it made them more of a hero. I just said that's a difference is the willingness to take a life is more rampant in marvel! Point blank. Like where are you guys getting that from. If anyone would READ the WHOLE discussion rather than just what I post then you can understand! Its like people get on here just to make fun of people rather than discuss comics and claim other people don't read. When hardly anyone in this discussion read and was like o ok xman4life RESPONDED to what was said when a person posted there isn't much difference between marvel and dc and he was just pointing out differences!

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You blew this thing out of proportion. I did not make fun of you, quite on the contrary. I know your main point wasn't the killing, but it certainly seems like a big deal to you since you bring it up so dang often on the boards. You keep repeating it multiple times within one thread, like it's a really important part of storytelling instead of just another plot point. What worried me - and subsequently made me write my response - is that you seem to think a large roster of murderous vigilantes within a certain universe is a positive quality, and somehow make the stories better or more believable. That's untrue. Several superhero comics in the 90's are a great example.

 

I did read all your posts. I did understand what you were trying to say. I also noticed that M Bison was not asking for power levels, grittiness, or other aesthetic choices that vary from character to character, not company to company, but to what difference there really is between Marvel and DC. As in stories, characterization, and overall quality. Real answer: Pretty much nothing. Why? Because Marvel and DC have very few "fixed" writers. Most writers these days write for characters, not companies. If Alan Moore or Grant Morrison or Frank Miller or Jeph Loeb write Daredevil, great. If Batman, again, great. It's the writers who make the quality, not the companies. Good writing surpasses even dumb editorial decisions. People should get over all nonsensical brand loyalty and focus on reading the stories.

 

In closing, if the new Doomsday will be featured in an excellent, entertaining comic book, what does it matter if he's overpowered? It's not like he's going to be pitted against wheelchair-bound Barbara Gordon. Although I admit that could be interesting.

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You blew this thing out of proportion. I did not make fun of you, quite on the contrary. I know your main point wasn't the killing, but it certainly seems like a big deal to you since you bring it up so dang often on the boards. You keep repeating it multiple times within one thread, like it's a really important part of storytelling instead of just another plot point. What worried me - and subsequently made me write my response - is that you seem to think a large roster of murderous vigilantes within a certain universe is a positive quality, and somehow make the stories better or more believable. That's untrue. Several superhero comics in the 90's are a great example.

 

I did read all your posts. I did understand what you were trying to say. I also noticed that M Bison was not asking for power levels, grittiness, or other aesthetic choices that vary from character to character, not company to company, but to what difference there really is between Marvel and DC. As in stories, characterization, and overall quality. Real answer: Pretty much nothing. Why? Because Marvel and DC have very few "fixed" writers. Most writers these days write for characters, not companies. If Alan Moore or Grant Morrison or Frank Miller or Jeph Loeb write Daredevil, great. If Batman, again, great. It's the writers who make the quality, not the companies. Good writing surpasses even dumb editorial decisions. People should get over all nonsensical brand loyalty and focus on reading the stories.

 

In closing, if the new Doomsday will be featured in an excellent, entertaining comic book, what does it matter if he's overpowered? It's not like he's going to be pitted against wheelchair-bound Barbara Gordon. Although I admit that could be interesting.

And I appreciate that honestly. But in this forum where people are constantly debating and going back and forth about comic mechanics and feats you have to bring up someones grittiness to explain how one character can get over on the next. People don't care about how good kingdom come is they care about what can superman do and feats. So I understand what your saying but I do bring it up when it IS about one person against the next. I can't say oh superman has great writers and stories you say superman can fly ftl and lift ........

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@xmen4life: Well, this we can agree on. Sort of the reason I started staying away from the CBUB boards in the first place. Only focusing on feats and powers while ignoring what makes the characters great and unique in the first place becomes old very quickly.

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@xmen4life: Well, this we can agree on. Sort of the reason I started staying away from the CBUB boards in the first place. Only focusing on feats and powers while ignoring what makes the characters great and unique in the first place becomes old very quickly.

Oh no don't get me wrong I FULLy get what your saying. And after a while its does get old. But that's what you do in battles. No one here really talks about how "in depth" a hero is they care about what are the things punisher can do beat another character. I promise you if there was an appreciation thread(which it should be) people would still bicker and say that character sucks and yadda yadda yadda. Like for example people hate this new xman roster but I LOVE it I thinks its better than the classic one. People hate wolverine now and I think now he is shown as more than just a killing machine. He is shown as a father to two kids(if you want to count x-23 who he wanted and planned to adopt)

Side note though I dislike Daken I feel he is necessesary to better tell the wolverine sroty. And I adore x-23..

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Only focusing on feats and powers while ignoring what makes the characters great and unique in the first place becomes old very quickly.

Well it depends what the thread is about....if it is a fight, then yeah you are going to compare feats, powers, etc. If the thread is about a certain character then that'd be a time to talk about their uniqueness. In a fight you are not going to say "his back story is very interesting" that doesn't mean much in a fight, and vice versa if you are talking about what makes a chracter unique you aren't going to say something generic like "this guys has super strength he is so cool". As per Xman4life I think he is a youngin' (could be wrong) so things on the surface (powers, feats, etc.) are going to catch his eye compared to someone more mature/older looks through the surface (character development, backstory, etc.)

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Well it depends what the thread is about....if it is a fight, then yeah you are going to compare feats, powers, etc. If the thread is about a certain character then that'd be a time to talk about their uniqueness. In a fight you are not going to say "his back story is very interesting" that doesn't mean much in a fight, and vice versa if you are talking about what makes a chracter unique you aren't going to say something generic like "this guys has super strength he is so cool". As per Xman4life I think he is a youngin' (could be wrong) so things on the surface (powers, feats, etc.) are going to catch his eye compared to someone more mature/older looks through the surface (character development, backstory, etc.)

I'm 18. And have a comic collection to rival some of the biggest comic fans here. Lol over 400 and counting. I trust me I do care about character depth.

Again I have read

Kingdom Come

Battle for the Cowl

Second Coming

(Some of) Blackest night

R.I.P batman

Hush

Dark reign

Secret Invasion

Seige

Chaos War

World war hulk

All Star Superman

S/b Public Enemies

S/b Candor

S/b supergirl

Infinity Crisis

S/b Vengence

Necrosha

Fall of the New Mutants

World war Three

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I'm 18. And have a comic collection to rival some of the biggest comic fans here. Lol over 400 and counting. I trust me I do care about character depth.

Again I have read

Kingdom Come

Battle for the Cowl

Second Coming

(Some of) Blackest night

R.I.P batman

Hush

Dark reign

Secret Invasion

Seige

Chaos War

World war hulk

All Star Superman

S/b Public Enemies

S/b Candor

S/b supergirl

Infinity Crisis

S/b Vengence

Necrosha

Fall of the New Mutants

World war Three

By the way you type, I had assumed you were 13.

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By the way you type, I had assumed you were 13.

For one I'm never near my computer so I post from my blackberry and the font is so small I can't see it. Or I'm at work typing in a hurry. So please save the jokes.

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