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Iron man Extremis vs Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes)


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#61 force_echo

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 08:19 PM

"the GL rings have exactly 4 weaknesses. and only 2 that could be used to blast through a GL energy shield without the use of superior power. 1. Willpower. ie. disrupt the willpower of the wearer. but as you yourself have pointed out, the Scarab has no effect on the minds of its opponents. it cannot perform mindcontrol in any way. 2. Red Power ring Energy. ie. GL rings are weak against the energy that comes from a Red Lantern ring. however, the Scarab can copy/imitate This kind of energy, just as much as it can copy Magical energy.

that leaves 1 of 2 options. 1. the Scarab is incapable of copying energy that it hasn't already absorbed(aside from various types of regular radiation like that coming from Kryptonite), and it blasted through the GL shield by pure superior power. or 2. the Scarab is actually capable of copying/imitating forms of energy that it does not have available, or have even encountered before. which means that it used Red Lantern energy to blast through the GL shield."



this leave you, with 1 question. can the Scarab use Superior Power(in which case it can blast through Iron Man like he wasn't even there), or can it Replicate/Imitate various forms of energy(in which case it can copy/imitate magic and bypass iron mans defenses) ?

Look at Iron Man's weaknesses, he has none, not in the conventional sense but if what you're claiming is true, then apparently some can be found. Exact same situation with the GL I'm guessing, the fact still remains, that BB's blasts were tailored to burst through a GL's energy shield. But, lets entertain the other side. BB did it out of pure force. BB's strongest attacks are city destroyers. As we all know, GL rings are more than capable of tanking city destroying attacks. Alos, there is no evidence of him using magic to bolster his energy blasts as you claim. If you showed me a scan of BB draining magical energy from the ring or something, then saying/thinking Im gonna use this, then bursting through GL's bubble, my point is moot. There is also another way you can prove this, BB blasts do not get through GL's shield the first time, he absorbs magical energy, they get through the second time, your point is now proven. I however, have evidence from the Wikipedia saying that BB cannot bolster his attacks with magic as the Wikipedia says BB can ONLY percieve disrupt and absorb magical energies. This would also give evidence that BB's blasts are magical in nature, and as thus, being able to blast through Iron Man. But I sincerily doubt you have the evidence.

The feat I referred to above, with Stane's suicide bombers, was done with the Extremis armor. It tanked a nuke without any energy shields.

#62 sirmethos

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 08:37 PM

Look at Iron Man's weaknesses, he has none, not in the conventional sense but if what you're claiming is true, then apparently some can be found. Exact same situation with the GL I'm guessing, the fact still remains, that BB's blasts were tailored to burst through a GL's energy shield. But, lets entertain the other side. BB did it out of pure force. BB's strongest attacks are city destroyers. As we all know, GL rings are more than capable of tanking city destroying attacks. Alos, there is no evidence of him using magic to bolster his energy blasts as you claim. If you showed me a scan of BB draining magical energy from the ring or something, then saying/thinking Im gonna use this, then bursting through GL's bubble, my point is moot. There is also another way you can prove this, BB blasts do not get through GL's shield the first time, he absorbs magical energy, they get through the second time, your point is now proven. I however, have evidence from the Wikipedia saying that BB cannot bolster his attacks with magic as the Wikipedia says BB can ONLY percieve disrupt and absorb magical energies. This would also give evidence that BB's blasts are magical in nature, and as thus, being able to blast through Iron Man. But I sincerily doubt you have the evidence.

The feat I referred to above, with Stane's suicide bombers, was done with the Extremis armor. It tanked a nuke without any energy shields.


no, he wasn't absorbing magical energy just prior to blasting through the shield of the GL.

but let's say, just for arguments sake, that the Scarab is actually incapable of anything more powerful than a city-destroyer blast.

then the answer to my question is option 2. the Scarab can replicate/imitate various forms of energy.

that means, that the Scarab can replicate/imitate Magical energy.


since Iron Man, by your own words, has no defense against that. Iron Man gets blasted out of the sky.


i know you're now going to claim that Iron Man will use his artificial Spider-Sense to avoid the blast, but you forget one thing: Bleed Diving. this makes BB capable if Instantaneous Teleportation. after the first blast actually misses Iron Man, BB can simply use the Teleportation, teleport directly behind Iron Man and blast him before he has time to react.


as for the evidence, you're partially right. i don't have the comics myself, so i can't just go find them, scan them and upload it for you. and downloading the comics to find a screenshot(or a few of them) for you, would take several hours.

however, given the answer provided to my question, there is no need for the evidence either way.

#63 force_echo

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 10:01 PM

no, he wasn't absorbing magical energy just prior to blasting through the shield of the GL.

but let's say, just for arguments sake, that the Scarab is actually incapable of anything more powerful than a city-destroyer blast.

then the answer to my question is option 2. the Scarab can replicate/imitate various forms of energy.

that means, that the Scarab can replicate/imitate Magical energy.


since Iron Man, by your own words, has no defense against that. Iron Man gets blasted out of the sky.


i know you're now going to claim that Iron Man will use his artificial Spider-Sense to avoid the blast, but you forget one thing: Bleed Diving. this makes BB capable if Instantaneous Teleportation. after the first blast actually misses Iron Man, BB can simply use the Teleportation, teleport directly behind Iron Man and blast him before he has time to react.


as for the evidence, you're partially right. i don't have the comics myself, so i can't just go find them, scan them and upload it for you. and downloading the comics to find a screenshot(or a few of them) for you, would take several hours.

however, given the answer provided to my question, there is no need for the evidence either way.

It cannot replicate magical energy, it does not comprehend Magic. Thats like me trying to build the structure of hemoglobin, I don;t know wtf Hemoglobin is, how the hell am I gonna replicate something that complex?

#64 Skirmisher

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 10:21 PM

It cannot replicate magical energy, it does not comprehend DNA. Thats like me trying to build the structure of hemoglobin, I don;t know wtf Hemoglobin is, how the hell am I gonna replicate something that complex?

Dude, you don't even know what Hemoglobin is or what it looks like at the molecular structure?

Here, I'll whip something up in Paint for you to look at... and Basically Hemoglobin is the metalloprotein that carries oxygen in the blood, and makes up almost all of the not water stuff in the blood. Kinda need them for Air and all that good stuff...


Edit: Here you go, I had to shrink it so you might not get too much detail. Also, this is only a Heme Group, as it would take me hours to draw up the four globular protein structures that act with it to make up Hemoglobin.


Posted Image

#65 sirmethos

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 10:34 PM

It cannot replicate magical energy, it does not comprehend DNA. Thats like me trying to build the structure of hemoglobin, I don;t know wtf Hemoglobin is, how the hell am I gonna replicate something that complex?



it can identity people it has met before by looking at their genes. it might not be down to DNA level, but it's pretty close.

"It can identify and scan metahumans. It can identify people related to those it's already encountered via genetic analysis. "

also, my memory was off about the negative effects of magnetic shielding. "Magnetic Shielding: Strong magnetic fields block the Scarab's ability to track DNA. ". so that's a non-issue. it doesn't need to track Iron Mans DNA.

as for the replicating/imitating magic, well, if it can't replicate/imitate various forms of energy. then we're back to the option of BB blasting through the GL's shields through sheer superior power.

as i already said, there are exactly 2 ways that the Scarab can have used for blasting through the GL's shields. 1. sheer Superior Power. 2. Energy Replication/Imitation.


first you say it's not capable of doing it through Superior Power, now you're saying that Superior Power is the only way it could have done it, make up your mind.

#66 force_echo

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 10:37 PM

it can identity people it has met before by looking at their genes. it might not be down to DNA level, but it's pretty close.

"It can identify and scan metahumans. It can identify people related to those it's already encountered via genetic analysis. "

also, my memory was off about the negative effects of magnetic shielding. "Magnetic Shielding: Strong magnetic fields block the Scarab's ability to track DNA. ". so that's a non-issue. it doesn't need to track Iron Mans DNA.

as for the replicating/imitating magic, well, if it can't replicate/imitate various forms of energy. then we're back to the option of BB blasting through the GL's shields through sheer superior power.

as i already said, there are exactly 2 ways that the Scarab can have used for blasting through the GL's shields. 1. sheer Superior Power. 2. Energy Replication/Imitation.


first you say it's not capable of doing it through Superior Power, now you're saying that Superior Power is the only way it could have done it, make up your mind.

Sorry, I meant magic, not DNA (shwere'd that come from?). What are you talking about? I'm saying that BB's blasts were specifically tailored to punch through a GL shield, where'd I contradict myself?

#67 force_echo

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 10:45 PM

Dude, you don't even know what Hemoglobin is or what it looks like at the molecular structure?

Here, I'll whip something up in Paint for you to look at... and Basically Hemoglobin is the metalloprotein that carries oxygen in the blood, and makes up almost all of the not water stuff in the blood. Kinda need them for Air and all that good stuff...


Edit: Here you go, I had to shrink it so you might not get too much detail. Also, this is only a Heme Group, as it would take me hours to draw up the four globular protein structures that act with it to make up Hemoglobin.


Posted Image

Shut up Skirmisher, I know what hemoglobin is, I took AP Bio my freshman year. I also know genetic mutations of the structure, the DNA bases that code for it, and the tRNA anticodons for the structure, but that's besides the point. You're not even in this debate, and you missed the whole damn point of my analogy. I'm saying that you cannot replicate something that you do not understand, or know the nature of: Cloning was impossible before Watson and Crick discovered the structure of DNA. Besides, you didn't know what the structure of hemoglobin was before you went on Google to try and make me look like a dumbass.

Some people these days.

#68 sirmethos

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 11:10 PM

What are you talking about? I'm saying that BB's blasts were specifically tailored to punch through a GL shield, where'd I contradict myself?


well, first you said that BB is incapable of punching through GL's shields through sheer superior power.


with the capabilities of the GL Ring in mind. that leaves only 1 way through which BB/Scarab can have punched through the GL shield. and that is by replicating/imitating the energy of a Red Lantern. since the Scarab has never actually encountered a Red Lantern, this means that it can imitate specific kinds of energy based on the weaknesses of it's opponent. ie. its scans revealed that the GL had a weakness towards Red Lantern Energy, and it replicated that specific kind of energy.



by your own words, Iron Man has no defense against Magical Energy, this means that aside from the conventional weaknesses i already pointed out. Magic is a weakness of Iron Man, just like Red Lantern Energy is a weakness of the GL.

thus, it can replicate it.


now you're saying that it can Not replicate it. which only leaves 1 option, it punched through the GL shield through sheer Superior Power, but you already said that it was incapable of that. hence, you contradicted yourself.

#69 sirmethos

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 11:12 PM

I don;t know wtf Hemoglobin is, how the hell am I gonna replicate something that complex?



Shut up Skirmisher, I know what hemoglobin is, I took AP Bio my freshman year. I also know genetic mutations of the structure, the DNA bases that code for it, and the tRNA anticodons for the structure



and you seem to continue contradicting yourself.

#70 force_echo

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 08:56 AM

and you seem to continue contradicting yourself.

OMG, it was meant to be an example, ok, you want another one? I wouldn't be able to build a computer, because I don't know the intricies of how it works, even if I had all the resources in the world, I, by myself, would not be able to replicate a computer.

#71 force_echo

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 09:03 AM

well, first you said that BB is incapable of punching through GL's shields through sheer superior power.


with the capabilities of the GL Ring in mind. that leaves only 1 way through which BB/Scarab can have punched through the GL shield. and that is by replicating/imitating the energy of a Red Lantern. since the Scarab has never actually encountered a Red Lantern, this means that it can imitate specific kinds of energy based on the weaknesses of it's opponent. ie. its scans revealed that the GL had a weakness towards Red Lantern Energy, and it replicated that specific kind of energy.



by your own words, Iron Man has no defense against Magical Energy, this means that aside from the conventional weaknesses i already pointed out. Magic is a weakness of Iron Man, just like Red Lantern Energy is a weakness of the GL.

thus, it can replicate it.


now you're saying that it can Not replicate it. which only leaves 1 option, it punched through the GL shield through sheer Superior Power, but you already said that it was incapable of that. hence, you contradicted yourself.

No no no, The Reach designed it with this capability, this mysterious capability of being a GL smasher, they cultivated the Scarabs that way, they were designed that way, they were designed to have Red energy or whatever causes them to burst through a GL shield, but they cannot replicate magic, because they do not understand how it works, they were not designed to replicate magic, and not only were they not designed, even if it came into contact with magic, as it has, it wouldn't be able to replicate the energy, thats what I'm trying to say.

Again its like this. Say I was born with the ability to make a pencil sharpener or something like that. I can make the pencil sharpener. I can also learn how other things work, like a speaker, or headphones. But for some reason, I cannot understand how to build an Ipod. I still use an iPod every day, but I have no idea how it works, now I try to build an iPod. I can't build it. then I get blasted to peiced by Iron Man;s repulsors.

#72 sirmethos

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 07:26 PM

No no no, The Reach designed it with this capability, this mysterious capability of being a GL smasher, they cultivated the Scarabs that way, they were designed that way, they were designed to have Red energy or whatever causes them to burst through a GL shield, but they cannot replicate magic, because they do not understand how it works, they were not designed to replicate magic, and not only were they not designed, even if it came into contact with magic, as it has, it wouldn't be able to replicate the energy, thats what I'm trying to say.

Again its like this. Say I was born with the ability to make a pencil sharpener or something like that. I can make the pencil sharpener. I can also learn how other things work, like a speaker, or headphones. But for some reason, I cannot understand how to build an Ipod. I still use an iPod every day, but I have no idea how it works, now I try to build an iPod. I can't build it. then I get blasted to peiced by Iron Man;s repulsors.


wrong again.

the Scarabs were designed as a way of expanding Reach territory despite the treaty with the Guardians.

the Scarabs are meant to be Infiltrators, they are meant to be left on inhabited planets, and when the planet reaches a certain technological level, the Scarab assigned to that planet will activate, bond with a native of the planet, and overwrite that persons personality.

the Scarabs are designed to be the primary tool in taking over planets, in a way that the Reach can easily deny that they had anything to do with it.


the Scarabs were not specifically designed to kill, or even fight, Green Lanterns, they were created to take over planets through infiltration, so that fighting the Green Lanterns would not be necessary.

#73 force_echo

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 12:53 PM

wrong again.

the Scarabs were designed as a way of expanding Reach territory despite the treaty with the Guardians.

the Scarabs are meant to be Infiltrators, they are meant to be left on inhabited planets, and when the planet reaches a certain technological level, the Scarab assigned to that planet will activate, bond with a native of the planet, and overwrite that persons personality.

the Scarabs are designed to be the primary tool in taking over planets, in a way that the Reach can easily deny that they had anything to do with it.


the Scarabs were not specifically designed to kill, or even fight, Green Lanterns, they were created to take over planets through infiltration, so that fighting the Green Lanterns would not be necessary.

That may be true, but combating GLs is still a major priority, and as such, they would be equipped for such a task, all you need to do is look at the Scarab's combat directives to see this. " The Scarab sees the Green Lantern Corps as the 'enemy'... As Jaime's experience with the Scarab's armor has developed, the Scarab has taken a more aggressive approach against the Lanterns, urging Jaime to kill them."

Oh, another thing helping the Scarabs in that situation: "The Green Lantern rings, for their part, fear the Scarab, responding in different ways depending on their wielders". Wasn't fear GL's weakness? Oh yeah, it was.

#74 sirmethos

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 10:24 PM

That may be true, but combating GLs is still a major priority, and as such, they would be equipped for such a task, all you need to do is look at the Scarab's combat directives to see this. " The Scarab sees the Green Lantern Corps as the 'enemy'... As Jaime's experience with the Scarab's armor has developed, the Scarab has taken a more aggressive approach against the Lanterns, urging Jaime to kill them."

Oh, another thing helping the Scarabs in that situation: "The Green Lantern rings, for their part, fear the Scarab, responding in different ways depending on their wielders". Wasn't fear GL's weakness? Oh yeah, it was.


you seem to be grasping at straws here.


'fear' in itself is not the weakness. the weakness is towards the color Yellow, which comes because of fear. However, when Jamie first encountered Green Lanterns it was after the whole Parallax thing, which means that Green Lanterns who have "accepted fear", doesn't have that weakness. the ones without that weakness include all the earth based Green Lanterns.

since the Green Lanterns that Jamie has fought are the earth based ones. his feat of blasting through the GL shield, is not because of that weakness.

and you forgot the rest of the quote: "In Jaime's first few days as the Beetle, the Scarab did everything in its power to get him away from the Lanterns - up to and including shifting him outside the universe."

if the Scarab was designed with the purpose of fighting and/or killing Green Lanterns, it would have no reason to flee on sight. it is, to use your own words, common sense.

#75 force_echo

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 09:14 AM

you seem to be grasping at straws here.


'fear' in itself is not the weakness. the weakness is towards the color Yellow, which comes because of fear. However, when Jamie first encountered Green Lanterns it was after the whole Parallax thing, which means that Green Lanterns who have "accepted fear", doesn't have that weakness. the ones without that weakness include all the earth based Green Lanterns.

since the Green Lanterns that Jamie has fought are the earth based ones. his feat of blasting through the GL shield, is not because of that weakness.

and you forgot the rest of the quote: "In Jaime's first few days as the Beetle, the Scarab did everything in its power to get him away from the Lanterns - up to and including shifting him outside the universe."

if the Scarab was designed with the purpose of fighting and/or killing Green Lanterns, it would have no reason to flee on sight. it is, to use your own words, common sense.

It wasn;t designed to kill GL's, but combating GLs was included as a kinda bonus. Like a stero system on a car. There are many reasons why The scarab would have ran rather then fight, perhaps he was outmatched, or didn't think Jamie was up to the task. This is very likely because, as the quote says, this was during his first few days. Combating a GL would be like a cop taking on a mass murdering serial killer on his first day. The fact remains, combating GLs is an important function of the Scarab, whether it is the main one or not.

What? That makes no sense, if yellow is the weakness because it personifies fear, then fear itself would have an even greater impact on a GL, the power comes from willpower, fear interferes with this, and thus, the power diminishes, its called common sense. Fear is a GL weakness, whether the GL's have accepted yellow or not.

#76 God-Speed_88

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 10:29 AM

It wasn;t designed to kill GL's, but combating GLs was included as a kinda bonus. Like a stero system on a car. There are many reasons why The scarab would have ran rather then fight, perhaps he was outmatched, or didn't think Jamie was up to the task. This is very likely because, as the quote says, this was during his first few days. Combating a GL would be like a cop taking on a mass murdering serial killer on his first day. The fact remains, combating GLs is an important function of the Scarab, whether it is the main one or not.

What? That makes no sense, if yellow is the weakness because it personifies fear, then fear itself would have an even greater impact on a GL, the power comes from willpower, fear interferes with this, and thus, the power diminishes, its called common sense. Fear is a GL weakness, whether the GL's have accepted yellow or not.


It is actually the colour yellow. An example is when Batman and Robin painted themselves and a room yellow, lured Hal Jordan in and beat the shit out of him.

The whole thing came from Parallax etc etc etc but now the argument is mute due to it only affecting rookies.

#77 sirmethos

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 04:33 PM

It wasn;t designed to kill GL's, but combating GLs was included as a kinda bonus. Like a stero system on a car. There are many reasons why The scarab would have ran rather then fight, perhaps he was outmatched, or didn't think Jamie was up to the task. This is very likely because, as the quote says, this was during his first few days. Combating a GL would be like a cop taking on a mass murdering serial killer on his first day. The fact remains, combating GLs is an important function of the Scarab, whether it is the main one or not.

What? That makes no sense, if yellow is the weakness because it personifies fear, then fear itself would have an even greater impact on a GL, the power comes from willpower, fear interferes with this, and thus, the power diminishes, its called common sense. Fear is a GL weakness, whether the GL's have accepted yellow or not.


Fear interferes with Willpower yes, and that weakness, shows itself through a weakness against Yellow.

i never said anything about accepting yellow, i said they had accepted Fear, and thus defeated that weakness.

as for BB fleeing. the Scarab can act autonomously and take control for a short period of time, so if it was actually designed to fight GL's, its course of action would have been simple: raise arms, fire blast of Red Lantern Energy.

but it didn't, for the simple fact that it is Not designed to fight, or kill, Green Lanterns. it was supposed to be a method to avoid fighting Green Lanterns.



however, we're getting off topic here.


your theory of the Scarab being designed to fight/kill Green Lanterns, by having a built-in 'red lantern energy' generator, has one single, glaring, flaw: Jamies fight against members of the Sinestro Corps.

one of Jamies main feats of shielding, is an energy shield that was able to tank full power blasts from a member of the Sinestro Corps.

now, the two options i already stated earlier, 1. Superior Power, or 2. being able to imitate/replicate various forms of energy. would both account for that feat as well. since the Sinestro Corps. aka. Yellow Lanterns, have an inherent weakness towards Blue Lantern energy. just like the Green Lanterns have a weakness towards Red Lantern energy.

However, while your theory of the Scarab being designed to fight/kill Green Lanterns, could make sense with only the feat against Green Lanterns in mind, it is made implausible when the feat against the Sinestro Corps is part of the picture as well. for one simple reason:

the Scarab and the Reach has never encountered Yellow Lanterns. they never existed in the main reality before Sinestro went rogue and obtained the first Yellow Lantern ring from an alternative reality, the Yellow Lantern Battery is still in the Anti-Matter Universe where Sinestro obtained the ring, and all members of the Sinestro Corps were, on being recruited, taken to that universe for psychological and physical reconditioning, and to get their rings.

this means that there is no way the Reach could have built a weapon against the Yellow Lanterns into the Scarabs.

also, the fact that the Scarab that is actually part of this fight, came to earth several thousand years ago, Long before the creation of the Yellow Lantern Corps.



now, since your theory of the Scarabs having a built-in 'Red Energy' generator has been disproven. we are back at exactly 2 possibilities that can explain the energy feats of the Scarab:

1. Superior Power, the Scarab blasted through a GL shield, and managed to make a shield that easily tanked blasts from a Yellow Lantern, because he simply has more power. if this is the case, then Blue Beetle can easily blast through Iron Man like he wasn't even there.

2. Energy Replication/Imitation. the Scarab blasted through a GL Shield, and managed to make a shield that easily tanked blasts from a Yellow Lantern, because it was able to imitate Red and Blue Lantern Energy, by scanning the Green and Yellow Lanterns and adapt to their weaknesses. if this is the case, then Blue Beetle can easily replicate Magical Energy, and blast Iron Man out of the air because he has no defense against that.



either way, as i said back in the beginning of this thread, Blue Beetle Wins.

#78 force_echo

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 06:10 PM

Fear interferes with Willpower yes, and that weakness, shows itself through a weakness against Yellow.

i never said anything about accepting yellow, i said they had accepted Fear, and thus defeated that weakness.

as for BB fleeing. the Scarab can act autonomously and take control for a short period of time, so if it was actually designed to fight GL's, its course of action would have been simple: raise arms, fire blast of Red Lantern Energy.

but it didn't, for the simple fact that it is Not designed to fight, or kill, Green Lanterns. it was supposed to be a method to avoid fighting Green Lanterns.



however, we're getting off topic here.


your theory of the Scarab being designed to fight/kill Green Lanterns, by having a built-in 'red lantern energy' generator, has one single, glaring, flaw: Jamies fight against members of the Sinestro Corps.

one of Jamies main feats of shielding, is an energy shield that was able to tank full power blasts from a member of the Sinestro Corps.

now, the two options i already stated earlier, 1. Superior Power, or 2. being able to imitate/replicate various forms of energy. would both account for that feat as well. since the Sinestro Corps. aka. Yellow Lanterns, have an inherent weakness towards Blue Lantern energy. just like the Green Lanterns have a weakness towards Red Lantern energy.

However, while your theory of the Scarab being designed to fight/kill Green Lanterns, could make sense with only the feat against Green Lanterns in mind, it is made implausible when the feat against the Sinestro Corps is part of the picture as well. for one simple reason:

the Scarab and the Reach has never encountered Yellow Lanterns. they never existed in the main reality before Sinestro went rogue and obtained the first Yellow Lantern ring from an alternative reality, the Yellow Lantern Battery is still in the Anti-Matter Universe where Sinestro obtained the ring, and all members of the Sinestro Corps were, on being recruited, taken to that universe for psychological and physical reconditioning, and to get their rings.

this means that there is no way the Reach could have built a weapon against the Yellow Lanterns into the Scarabs.

also, the fact that the Scarab that is actually part of this fight, came to earth several thousand years ago, Long before the creation of the Yellow Lantern Corps.



now, since your theory of the Scarabs having a built-in 'Red Energy' generator has been disproven. we are back at exactly 2 possibilities that can explain the energy feats of the Scarab:

1. Superior Power, the Scarab blasted through a GL shield, and managed to make a shield that easily tanked blasts from a Yellow Lantern, because he simply has more power. if this is the case, then Blue Beetle can easily blast through Iron Man like he wasn't even there.

2. Energy Replication/Imitation. the Scarab blasted through a GL Shield, and managed to make a shield that easily tanked blasts from a Yellow Lantern, because it was able to imitate Red and Blue Lantern Energy, by scanning the Green and Yellow Lanterns and adapt to their weaknesses. if this is the case, then Blue Beetle can easily replicate Magical Energy, and blast Iron Man out of the air because he has no defense against that.



either way, as i said back in the beginning of this thread, Blue Beetle Wins.

Here we are again with you putting words in my mouth. I never said BB has a Red Lantern generator. I didn't know WHAT caused him to do that to a GL, until Fear. Fear would disrupt a GL's powers, but as you pointed out, that doesn't work vs. a Sinestro corp member.

In regard to your two points, point 2 is the plausible one, Red Energy or Blue energy is something it would be able to duplicate. Magic however, it cannot, it does not understand magic, it can't replicate magic, it cant do anything except those 3 things with magic. Magic is apart from your regular energies, and that's why it wouldn't work to duplicate magic.

If you prove however, that BB can duplicate magical energies, I will concede this fight.

This is my argument for BB not being able to replicate magical energies: ": While the Scarab is aware of magic, it doesn't understand it. It's able to perceive, absorb, and disrupt magical energies, but little else."

#79 sirmethos

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 08:05 PM

Here we are again with you putting words in my mouth. I never said BB has a Red Lantern generator. I didn't know WHAT caused him to do that to a GL, until Fear. Fear would disrupt a GL's powers, but as you pointed out, that doesn't work vs. a Sinestro corp member.

In regard to your two points, point 2 is the plausible one, Red Energy or Blue energy is something it would be able to duplicate. Magic however, it cannot, it does not understand magic, it can't replicate magic, it cant do anything except those 3 things with magic. Magic is apart from your regular energies, and that's why it wouldn't work to duplicate magic.

If you prove however, that BB can duplicate magical energies, I will concede this fight.

This is my argument for BB not being able to replicate magical energies: ": While the Scarab is aware of magic, it doesn't understand it. It's able to perceive, absorb, and disrupt magical energies, but little else."



GL Ring: "It is also theorized that the ring also has a basis in other dimensional energies commonly called magic by users of such energies. The ring can also create fields of force formed from an unknown energy that is bound by the users' will."

YL Ring: "It is also theorized that the ring also has a basis in other dimensional energies commonly called magic by users of such energies. The ring can also create fields of force formed from an unknown energy that was bound by the users' will."

Violet Ring: "The rings use Star Sapphire energy, supplied by a Power Battery, which in most cases takes the form of violet light." "the mystical power and ability of the Starheart, an ancient artifact created by the Guardians of the Universe. The Starheart is capable of many magical and mystical powers and abilities"

Red Ring: "The ring can also create fields of force formed from an unknown energy that was bound by the users' will."

Indigo Ring: "the Indigo can emulate the other energies of the emotional spectrum when they are in close proximity to them and use those energies for their own use. "

Orange Ring: "The ring can also create fields of force formed from an unknown energy that was bound by the users' will."

Blue Ring: "The ring can also create fields of force formed from an unknown energy that was bound by the users' will."


the Lantern rings and the energies they use, have always been theorized to be at least partially mystical in nature, also, you don't necessarily have to Understand something, to Replicate it.

the blueprints for the energies that the Scarab replicates/imitates, are in the weaknesses of the opponents it scans.

example: the Scarab scans a Green Lantern and finds the weakness of the GL Ring. now, since it has never encountered any power rings before, it doesn't actually Know that the weakness it is seeing, is 'Red Lantern Energy', it simply sees the proverbial cracks in the Green Lanterns armor, and creates something that fits into those cracks.

it's like playing music, you read the notes and play the notes, you don't necessarily have to understand the technical intricacies to do that.

likewise, when scanning Iron Man, one of the cracks in His proverbial armor, is his weakness towards Magical Energy, thus, the Scarab will simply create something that fits into those cracks.

now, i'm not saying that it has to be magical energy, Iron Man has more weaknesses than just magic, but as i pointed out. there is a very easy way, in which the Scarab would be able to replicate magical energy, without understanding it.



and as a final note: i was not, as you said, putting words in your mouth, you did that yourself.

"Here we are again with you putting words in my mouth. I never said BB has a Red Lantern generator. "


"The Reach designed it with this capability, this mysterious capability of being a GL smasher, they cultivated the Scarabs that way, they were designed that way, they were designed to have Red energy or whatever causes them to burst through a GL shield,"

#80 force_echo

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 05:03 PM

You have yet again to find concrete evidence that BB can duplicate magical energies. Your theories sound halfwinded and desperate.

"Red energy or whatever causes them to burst through a GL shield" I didn't know exactly what it was, so I was just throwing stuff out there, I never said explicitly that the Red energy is what causes a scarab to break through a gL shield.




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