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Mass Effect vs Halo


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#81 Ruinus

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 03:37 PM

Tip of the Spear, where the UNSC Grafton, a frigate, is destroyed by the Long Night of Solace, a Covenant supercarrier? How does that "retcon" away the fact that the UNSC still has access to megaton range nuclear missiles? It simply shows that a super carrier can destroy a ship that is far below its weight class with a single shot, which should be obvious from any other Halo material.

#82 the atom

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 08:06 PM

rice, I might add several facts which skirmish pointed out before you two began head butting over who has the baddest gun of them all. 1: The halo fleet vastly outnumbers the ME fleet 4:1. 2: the ME fleet is reliant on the mass effect relays, while the halo fleet is not. This grants the halo fleet with considerably greater maneuverability then the ME fleet could even dream of. Couple superior numbers with superior maneuverability, and the halo fleet takes this.

#83 ricrery

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 08:51 PM

Tip of the Spear, where the UNSC Grafton, a frigate, is destroyed by the Long Night of Solace, a Covenant supercarrier? How does that "retcon" away the fact that the UNSC still has access to megaton range nuclear missiles? It simply shows that a super carrier can destroy a ship that is far below its weight class with a single shot, which should be obvious from any other Halo material.


It doesn't retcon that the UNSC uses megaton nukes (although the Hope trailer shows they use kiloton nukes as well), but it does retcon any fluff that suggests they can withstand such power.

rice, I might add several facts which skirmish pointed out before you two began head butting over who has the baddest gun of them all. 1: The halo fleet vastly outnumbers the ME fleet 4:1. 2: the ME fleet is reliant on the mass effect relays, while the halo fleet is not. This grants the halo fleet with considerably greater maneuverability then the ME fleet could even dream of. Couple superior numbers with superior maneuverability, and the halo fleet takes this.


There is no confirmed size of the ME fleets. The Mass Relays are a type of FTL far above the UNSC or Covenant and without it their vessels still have FTL of several thousand c, putting them above the UNSC without them. The Covenant are also pretty slow at finding enemy systems, which is demonstrated in how long it took to find all of the UNSC and their worlds.

#84 the atom

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 09:30 PM

There is no confirmed size of the ME fleets. The Mass Relays are a type of FTL far above the UNSC or Covenant and without it their vessels still have FTL of several thousand c, putting them above the UNSC without them. The Covenant are also pretty slow at finding enemy systems, which is demonstrated in how long it took to find all of the UNSC and their worlds.
[/quote]

The Covenant were slow to FIND earth, but once they figured out it's location they were pretty much there right off the bat. It's also worth mentioning that the Covenant had no problems locating other human colonies, all of which is related to intel gathering abilities and not actual technology. Earth was a closely guarded secret.

#85 ricrery

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 09:53 PM

The Covenant were slow to FIND earth, but once they figured out it's location they were pretty much there right off the bat. It's also worth mentioning that the Covenant had no problems locating other human colonies, all of which is related to intel gathering abilities and not actual technology. Earth was a closely guarded secret.


Actually, the war lasted from 2525 to 2553. That's 28 years, nearly 3 decades. The upper limit of human colonies is 700 hundred, so they would find an average of 2 to 3 every year. There are sources that suggest even less.

#86 Ruinus

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 12:08 AM

It doesn't retcon that the UNSC uses megaton nukes (although the Hope trailer shows they use kiloton nukes as well), but it does retcon any fluff that suggests they can withstand such power.


Why is that an "althought it shows they use kiloton nukes"? It's not like the Deliver Hope trailer contradicts anything, especially considering that the nuke in DH was a man portable one. And it only "retcons" any fluff showing UNSC firgates taking more firepower. And rectons only if the fluff said frigates could ALWAYS take more firepower, at ANY point of their armor. UNSC Grafton took that shot straight up close and through it's center I believe, also by a gun whose beam was almost as wide as it was (width wise, not lenght).

#87 ricrery

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 12:16 AM

Why is that an "althought it shows they use kiloton nukes"? It's not like the Deliver Hope trailer contradicts anything, especially considering that the nuke in DH was a man portable one.


So are the 30 megaton ones.

\And it only "retcons" any fluff showing UNSC firgates taking more firepower.


In the novels, UNSC and Covenant vessels do survive hits from plasma torpedoes, but energy projectors bisect them.

#88 force_echo

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 02:55 PM

Big factor for ME winning- no relativity. When Eezo creates a corridor of low mass space, the speed of light within that space also increases, while still remaining in the same space time as the universe around it. This allows for minimal time drag due to the effect of relativity. Halo does not have this luxury (Halo ships slip into another 5d dimension where the distance between two points is shorter) , and as thus are at a strategical disadvantage. Its hard to coordinate strategy when half your fleet shows up a week before the other half.

#89 force_echo

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 08:51 PM

Not only does ME have a much better way of getting around, they can warp other ships by creating low mass fields. It's basically the same as the Warp biotic power in game, except on a larger scale. ME Ships can't do this to other ME ships because ME ships have shielding from mass fields (it's how they're unaffected by the process of going FTL). But guess what? Halo dosen't have those protective fields.

#90 Ruinus

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 01:55 AM

When is that stated?

#91 force_echo

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 10:16 AM

When is that stated?

What part? The Mass Effect warping space, or the Halo ships not having a defense to that?

#92 force_echo

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 06:16 PM

Ok: Land battle- equal numbers of UNSC marines vs. equal number of Alliance soldiers, PURE INFANTRY. Who wins?

#93 Ruinus

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 11:09 PM

No, the relativity thing.

#94 force_echo

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 09:51 AM

No, the relativity thing.

I read in Halopedia (Book medium) it states that while the Covenant have better control, the UNSC has to deal with whole parts of their attack forces arriving in different areas or different times from where they were supposed to arrive.

#95 Ruinus

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 10:41 AM

I read in Halopedia (Book medium) it states that while the Covenant have better control, the UNSC has to deal with whole parts of their attack forces arriving in different areas or different times from where they were supposed to arrive.


This could just be because their jumps are innacurate, not because the go through time dilation at different rates (something impossible if they are moving at the same speeds). Their ships arrive at different areas because they can't plot accurate courses like the Covenant can, and similarly they arrive at different times because if their end points are different, some of the ships will be taking shorter paths while others take longer ones.

#96 force_echo

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 11:09 AM

This could just be because their jumps are innacurate, not because the go through time dilation at different rates (something impossible if they are moving at the same speeds). Their ships arrive at different areas because they can't plot accurate courses like the Covenant can, and similarly they arrive at different times because if their end points are different, some of the ships will be taking shorter paths while others take longer ones.

The effects are the same, less tactical FTL maneuvering ability than the Mass Effect ships. I do concede that HALO ships would win in outer space because of their ridiculously unrealistic kinetic weapon yeilds.

Its not impossible, its a 5d dimension, anything can happen, not saying thats how it works, or thats how it dosen't works, but debating the physics of something completly impossible is pointless. Regardless of how it happens, it happens.

#97 force_echo

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 07:14 PM

check this peeps:

"◦As revealed in the Data Pads of Halo: Reach, the ability of the Covenant to 'glass' planets is propaganda devised by a group of human-created artificial intelligences. True, the Covenant COULD turn an entire planet into a hunk of glass...provided they had millennia to do so. However, the thought of an alien empire 'glassing' entire colonies certainly galvanized humanity to fight back."

#98 Skirmisher

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 04:28 PM

check this peeps:

"◦As revealed in the Data Pads of Halo: Reach, the ability of the Covenant to 'glass' planets is propaganda devised by a group of human-created artificial intelligences. True, the Covenant COULD turn an entire planet into a hunk of glass...provided they had millennia to do so. However, the thought of an alien empire 'glassing' entire colonies certainly galvanized humanity to fight back."

And that itself is Propaganda to give hope to the scattered defenders of Reach.

Problems with the Datapads

1) For a gathering of Smart AI's they sure have Lax Security allowing Fleshies to eaves drop
2) If it was on record then why didn't they, like many secrete meetings among Fleshies, delete said record so that it wouldn't fall into the wrong hands...
3) Assuming that they did keep records, why wasn't it guarded by these AI's that are millions of times faster and smarter then their Fleshy counterparts...
4) How do you explain these? Between August 23rd when they started Glassing, until September 7th when the Fleet left Reach for Installation 4. That's only a Partial Glassing too, as they didn't want to destroy any Forerunner Artifacts on or under the Surface of the Planet. Note too, that when Glassing Started, it was only with the small taskforce of Corvettes that the Covenant snuck in, and that the Full weight of the Fleet only arrived Halfway through the Glassing Operations.

August 23rd
Posted Image

August 30th
Posted Image

September 7th
Posted Image


What I can only surmise from the supposed Lack of intelligence for Smart AI's that are said to have over 200+IQ, who are as skilled at manipulating cyberspace as we are at Breathing, and who operate millions of times faster then a Human, is that THEY LEAKED IT ON PURPOSE.

Why would they do that? When Clearly other sources of data have plainly suggested that the Covenant IS CAPABLE of reducing the surface of a planet to a slick glassy surface... Perhaps they knew of other planets that only got Partially Glassinged due to the presence of Forerunner Artifacts. That there would be some survivors, and a Resistance.

What better way to galvanize humanity to fight back then to tell them that it's not all hopeless?

#99 Ruinus

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 04:53 PM

I'd heard the argument that combined with the datapads and some developer commentaries (where said developer states that the Covenant use slipspace beams to do the glassing), both imply that the Covenant's ship to ship firepower is not the same as their glassing firepower. IE If the Covenant can glass planets, but not with their standard weapons. Their plasma torps and similar ship to ship combat weapons don't have the firepower to glass planets (hence Halseys' comments), but that they do have other weaponry to do so. Hence your above images taking 3 weeks to carry out.

#100 force_echo

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 05:30 PM

-snip-

What were those pics from? Were they from a HALO game?




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