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Modern Earth Military VS Galactic Empire


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#121 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 02:01 PM

Would this have any impact in the battle if the US Navy was wholly equipped with them?

http://www.scientifi...aser-downs-uavs

#122 Ruinus

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 02:10 PM

It shouldn't, because the TIEs can avoid the Navy entirely. Considering that energy weapons are old hat in the SW galaxy, they might be better able to handle those lasers than bullets and missiles.

#123 force_echo

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 06:02 PM

Sure, but this is in atmosphere remember. They won't be able to travel quite as fast or be as maneuverable. Air resistance is a factor -- there's a reason modern planes have to be designed with a very specific shape.


Except that the TIE doesn't have turbolasers. And those turbolasers have a slower rate-of-fire and quite possibly less of a muzzle velocity. And their range is much less than that of a missile. A TIE doesn't have shielding either.

I wasn't comparing TIE laser Cannons to missles, I was comparing them to the 20mm cannon.

#124 Skirmisher

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 06:41 PM

GE commander: Surrender now or face the consequences.

Earth's commanders: We don't surrender. Cut this channel. Alright, begin mo-what do you mean we lost our satellites? What do you mean 35,000 fighters with surface to space cabalities and kiloton bombs are killing us?

I don't see how it's impressive for Earth is we get subjugated without ever engaging the enemy.

Um... the world has plans in place for the collapse of the Satellite grid... sure it makes it Slightly Harder for us... but only slightly.

Also... they only have 5000 bombers world wide, and they are the only ones that actually have those Kiloton level bombs.

Fighters don't carry that kind of firepower.


Not only that but THAAD could Easily catch them with their pants down as they attempt to make Bombing runs. You Seriously underestimate our SAM capabilities.

#125 Skirmisher

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 06:50 PM

Also, about TIE fighter speeds... at a constant speed of 1,200kph, a TIE could easily reach sub-orbit in several minutes. After that I would assume that their speed could conceivably pick up when the drag that they would face is substantially less.

So I would think that their Speed isn't That Great, and that they could make it into Space within your time frame Easily enough.

So... faster than our fighters? Yes when they're above our fighting range, but they can and will still be picked off by our missile defense systems. As well their Landing and Refueling bases are located... On the Ground...

#126 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 07:08 PM

Okay Ruinus, a few questions is for you since I brought the possiblity of them taking out our satelites. Answer these honestly now.

There technology is thousands of years ahead of ours, if not more, Right?

Would they even recognize such a "primitive" sat system for what it is?

Would they even take the time to shoot it down if they did? They might consider it a waste of time considering how easy they can subjugate the planet by your logic. Plus it would be counter-productive as they want to use our communications systems to get back in contact with the Galactic Empire. (Not that they would.)

Let me put this in a way you'll understand. Imagine you're commanding a detachment of Modern United States Armed Forces and are fighting Revolution era Redcoats, in situation like the one proposed here. Are you going to use what tittle ammo you have shooting their horses or save it for an actual battle?

#127 Skirmisher

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 07:12 PM

Okay Ruinus, a few questions is for you since I brought the possiblity of them taking out our satelites. Answer these honestly now.

There technology is thousands of years ahead of ours, if not more, Right?

Would they even recognize such a "primitive" sat system for what it is?

Would they even take the time to shoot it down if they did? They might consider it a waste of time considering how easy they can subjugate the planet by your logic. Plus it would be counter-productive as they want to use our communications systems to get back in contact with the Galactic Empire. (Not that they would.)

Let me put this in a way you'll understand. Imagine you're commanding a detachment of Modern United States Armed Forces and are fighting Revolution era Redcoats, in situation like the one proposed here. Are you going to use what tittle ammo you have shooting their horses or save it for an actual battle?

Well... they'd have to shoot Every Horse they come across as they wouldn't know if they could use it against them... And THAT would be a waste of ammo...

#128 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 07:36 PM

Well... they'd have to shoot Every Horse they come across as they wouldn't know if they could use it against them... And THAT would be a waste of ammo...

Exactly, and to the Empire seeing our sat system would be like digging up the first dinosaur bones, they'd have a vague idea of what it is but really they wouldn't know what it is. Besides as I said it's our communications equipment they want. They can shoot it down as they like but without our sat system they can't even begin to contact the Empire, their ultimate goal and we'd still have ground based radio, hell we could coordinate through freaking Morse Code if we had to. Various secret languages like in Wind Talkers.
A loss of our sat system would be a big blow, yes but we wouldn't be crippled per se. and they have to rebuild the entire sat system to reach their ultamate goal of getting a transmission to their galaxy, meanwhile w can go guerilla on them.

#129 Ruinus

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 07:40 PM

Um... the world has plans in place for the collapse of the Satellite grid... sure it makes it Slightly Harder for us... but only slightly.

Also... they only have 5000 bombers world wide, and they are the only ones that actually have those Kiloton level bombs.

Fighters don't carry that kind of firepower.


TIE fighters, first-they were much faster than the bulky Imperial cruisers, so they were the first to make contact with the Rebel invaders. Savage dogfights ensued, and soon the black sky was aglow with ruby explosions.

An aide approached Ackbar. "We've added power to the forward shield, Admiral."

"Good. Double power on the main battery, and-

Suddenly the Star Cruiser was rocked by thermonuclear fireworks outside the observation window.
TIE/sa:
It did not carry missile tubes, but such weapons could be added on if necessary.

TIE/Ins could be outfitted with proton torpedoes just like the TIE/sa model can.

Not only that but THAAD could Easily catch them with their pants down as they attempt to make Bombing runs. You Seriously underestimate our SAM capabilities.


These THAADs have a limited range, and a limited ceiling height. The TIEs aren't conventional fighters that will have to cross terrain to reach their targets, having to dodge fighter patrols and SAM sites, they will literally just be able to fly straight up outisde the range of all our missiles, avoid any sort of fight entirely, and then simply swoop down on areas that lack any sort of protection. Unless the Earth is covered in SAM sites or within easy range of an airbase, TIEs can pick and chose when they can attack, Earth cannot.

BTW, there are only 48 THAAD interceptors out of 6 THAAD launchers. They aren't going to be doing much besides defending one area.

#130 Ruinus

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 08:37 PM

Okay Ruinus, a few questions is for you since I brought the possiblity of them taking out our satelites. Answer these honestly now.

There technology is thousands of years ahead of ours, if not more, Right?

Would they even recognize such a "primitive" sat system for what it is?


Of course they would. In the same way that a modern man can look at a rock shaped like a cutting tool and realize that he is looking at a primative knife or spear, the GE will see satellites floating above the planet, detect signals being bounced to and from them and conclude that this is the method of communication on the planet and they'd know that it would be usefull to destroy these satellites.

Just like they do back in their own galaxy, where satellites are military targets.

Would they even take the time to shoot it down if they did? They might consider it a waste of time considering how easy they can subjugate the planet by your logic. Plus it would be counter-productive as they want to use our communications systems to get back in contact with the Galactic Empire. (Not that they would.)


They would actually realize that it would be easier to conquer Earth without their satellite network, and it wouldn't be a waste of time.

Look at a standard TIE/s max acceleration in space: 4,100 Gs. At max acceleration, in one second it is moving 40,221 m/s. Every second it adds another 40,221 m/s to that velocity. After one full minute it's moving at 2,413,260 m/s, or 2,413.26 km/s or .08% the speed of light.

The Moon is at an average distance of 385,000 km.

So it takes a TIE, after one full minute of acceleration, 159 seconds, or 2.66 minutes to reach the Moon. Think about the insane speeds here. 7 minutes and 32 seconds for a crappy little TIE fighter to to the Moon and back. While we watch The Simpsons for that 30 minute period the TIE has been to the Moon and back 4 times. A TIE has consumables for 2 days (assuming this means fuel) it can do this repeatedly for 2 days straight.

Of course, it won't keep these velocities. It has to slow down to shoot down the satellite. But what does it matter? At 4,100 Gs circling the Earth and shooting down satellites is nothing.

A single TIE could do it. Two could do it faster.

Oh, btw there's no way in hell the Imperial forces are using our satellites to re-establish contact with the Galactic Empire. Our satellites don't have any of the requirements to do so, most notably they lack subspace radio and FTL transceivers.

Unless the Imperial forces have an FTL communicator lying about, or can readily build one, they are going to be stuck on Earth a long time teaching us how to build FTL message systems.

#131 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 08:47 PM

Unless the Imperial forces have an FTL communicator lying about, or can readily build one, they are going to be stuck on Earth a long time teaching us how to build FTL message systems.

Which means the fight isn't over, there would mostly be armed forces in hinding traing civilans fighting guerilla style. The fight wouldn't be over. We could still win.

#132 Skirmisher

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 09:05 PM

It did not carry missile tubes, but such weapons could be added on if necessary.

Except... they can't.

They don't have the Equipment to convert a TIE fighter into something that can shoot PT's they'd have to Manufacture it themselves... Something that would take alot of time and infrastructure.


These THAADs have a limited range, and a limited ceiling height. The TIEs aren't conventional fighters that will have to cross terrain to reach their targets, having to dodge fighter patrols and SAM sites, they will literally just be able to fly straight up outisde the range of all our missiles, avoid any sort of fight entirely, and then simply swoop down on areas that lack any sort of protection. Unless the Earth is covered in SAM sites or within easy range of an airbase, TIEs can pick and chose when they can attack, Earth cannot.

BTW, there are only 48 THAAD interceptors out of 6 THAAD launchers. They aren't going to be doing much besides defending one area.

Yeah, and in a climate of Total War where US soil and Civilians are on the line, you'd think that they'd mass produce them, and deploy the ones they do have with fighter support to these Strategic areas. Not only that, but the Bombs that TIE/sa use are somewhat slow based on what we see in TESB, so unless the bomb wants to be shot out of the air by CIWS and THAAD, they'll have to put themselves in harms way with a close run.

#133 Ruinus

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 09:16 PM

The Technomancer of Nesh: It'll be pretty hard if the Imperial forces have their surrender demand attached to a "scrap all of your armed forces/vehicles/weaponry". Since they can force the entire Earth into surrender and wipe out large parts of the Earth, the option of "Neuter Earths' military to survive" IS a viable option. That or mass death that the Imperials won't give a shit about.

Skirmisher: The TIE bombers during TESB looked like they were dropping proton bombs which are slow. But that isn't the same as proton torpedoes or missiles.

Also, why can't they stick on those missile tubes to the TIE/Ins? Is it a limitation you've put on them? Because the PGB sound like they should have the equipment there.

Beyond that, rate of production for these things? Factories and such would probably be the first things to go up in smoke, so would freight trains, cargo ships, etc.

Also, reading the set up, the FSCV is, as far as I know, completely fine. It can break up into two ships (the front and back) and simply head over to the asteroid belt, and then bring some rocks back to Earth to drop on people who get uppity.

EDIT: Oh wait, nevermind. That'd count as an orbital asset.

#134 Skirmisher

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 09:24 PM

Skirmisher: The TIE bombers during TESB looked like they were dropping proton bombs which are slow. But that isn't the same as proton torpedoes or missiles.

Also, why can't they stick on those missile tubes to the TIE/Ins? Is it a limitation you've put on them? Because the PGB sound like they should have the equipment there.

Also, reading the set up, the FSCV is, as far as I know, completely fine. It can break up into two ships (the front and back) and simply head over to the asteroid belt, and then bring some rocks back to Earth to drop on people who get uppity.

I've put not limitation on them but that which they themselves have put on them... they're getting their TIE's from a Standard Garrison Deployment. As such they wouldn't have non-standard weaponry.

Fighters and Bombers would be Base Model, as such, fighters wouldn't have the PT Upgrade, and they wouldn't even have PT's in Stock since Bombers are designed to Bomb targets. They Might have a couple PT's per Base. But It's not as if the entire TIE force has access to bottomless amounts of PT's...

#135 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 09:26 PM

Ruinis do you really think the detachment can take an Earth now, as you want it bombed to crap and deviod of popluation and build enough tech on their own to contact the GE? Earthlings are a stubborn adaptable lot you kill their families and they will fight, in order to make it stop we're talking total extinction of the natives of Earth.

#136 Ruinus

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 09:36 PM

I've put not limitation on them but that which they themselves have put on them... they're getting their TIE's from a Standard Garrison Deployment. As such they wouldn't have non-standard weaponry.

Fighters and Bombers would be Base Model, as such, fighters wouldn't have the PT Upgrade, and they wouldn't even have PT's in Stock since Bombers are designed to Bomb targets. They Might have a couple PT's per Base. But It's not as if the entire TIE force has access to bottomless amounts of PT's...


I can maybe understand the reasoning that the TIE/Ins wouldn't have missile tubes, but why are you now limiting the TIE/sa to not have access to their regular weaponry? Are you telling me you are limiting the TIE/sa to pure proton bombs and not any of the other armament it was designed to carry simply because of the world "bomber"? :P Even in light of the fact that the TIE/sa can carry 4 proton torpedoes, 8 concussion missiles and some number of bombs at the same time?

#137 Ruinus

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 09:50 PM

Ruinis do you really think the detachment can take an Earth now, as you want it bombed to crap and deviod of popluation and build enough tech on their own to contact the GE? Earthlings are a stubborn adaptable lot you kill their families and they will fight, in order to make it stop we're talking total extinction of the natives of Earth.


Any opposition after that is going to be limited to a random terrorist bombing outside the Imperial embassies or puppet governments. I mean, in case no one noticed, there are 10 Sector Armies on Earth now. That's 7,747,560 combat soldiers, 4,057,330 support personnel, 666,400 repulsocraft and 139,220 heavy tanks. Each of these is bolstered by 18,550 men inside each Sectory Army HQ. It's not like Earth is fighting off 1,000 small military bases or just dealing with the personnel found inside, they're dealing with an entire million strong army with high tech vehicles that outperform modern Earth ones. AND they have an air force that can reach the Moon and back in less than 7 minutes and drop kiloton explosives on us.

Earth will probably surrender almost overnight, and massive scale destruction won't be necessary. It might be used on a city here or there, but after that Earth surrenders.

#138 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 09:57 PM

Any opposition after that is going to be limited to a random terrorist bombing outside the Imperial embassies or puppet governments. I mean, in case no one noticed, there are 10 Sector Armies on Earth now. That's 7,747,560 combat soldiers, 4,057,330 support personnel, 666,400 repulsocraft and 139,220 heavy tanks. Each of these is bolstered by 18,550 men inside each Sectory Army HQ. It's not like Earth is fighting off 1,000 small military bases or just dealing with the personnel found inside, they're dealing with an entire million strong army with high tech vehicles that outperform modern Earth ones. AND they have an air force that can reach the Moon and back in less than 7 minutes and drop kiloton explosives on us.

Earth will probably surrender almost overnight, and massive scale destruction won't be necessary. It might be used on a city here or there, but after that Earth surrenders.

Look at yor history book their are plenty of instances of primitive people beating advanced ones, tech isn't everything. I get the feeling if the Empire really did invade you'd jump for joy.

#139 Ruinus

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:05 PM

Look at yor history book their are plenty of instances of primitive people beating advanced ones, tech isn't everything. I get the feeling if the Empire really did invade you'd jump for joy.


Tech is everything if the combatants is one modern nation fighting another with 300 km/h energy shielded tanks, tanks with nuclear bomb firepower, fighters that reach the Moon and back with kiloton bombs and FTL communications along with military bases that are also shielded.

I mean, what, do you expect Earth to be filled with irrational suicidal idiots who will simply say "RAR Keep fighting to the last man! RAR!"? You know what method will allow the greatest numbef of people to keep their lives, limit destruction and keep the world functioning? Surrender.

Also don't be silly, I'd hate if the Galactic "land ships on protesters" Empire invaded Earth. But if they did, I'd be one of the people telling everyone that surrender is the way to go. Not surrendering would simply result in alot of smoking craters on Earth.

#140 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 10:11 PM

Tech is everything if the combatants is one modern nation fighting another with 300 km/h energy shielded tanks, tanks with nuclear bomb firepower, fighters that reach the Moon and back with kiloton bombs and FTL communications along with military bases that are also shielded.

I mean, what, do you expect Earth to be filled with irrational suicidal idiots who will simply say "RAR Keep fighting to the last man! RAR!"? You know what method will allow the greatest numbef of people to keep their lives, limit destruction and keep the world functioning? Surrender.

Also don't be silly, I'd hate if the Galactic "land ships on protesters" Empire invaded Earth. But if they did, I'd be one of the people telling everyone that surrender is the way to go. Not surrendering would simply result in alot of smoking craters on Earth.

So you'd roll over and play dead, people don't like being opressed, that's all I'm saying even if the Empire wins this intial encounter and gets the surrender, the will eventually lose. They don't have a palpitine or Trawn to sway the people. Viva la resistance.




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