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#41 LegendX

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 12:16 AM

The fact is Hulk's only real abilities are brute strength and regen. I can agree that Hulk can bounce back from injure better and faster, but I'm not fully convinced that he's harder to damage.
So.... I'm looking at strength and toughness. Can anyone show feats to those effects that we can say for certain Superman can't match or top. In light of the (likely) spirit of the match up I wont even consider Supermans flight, speed, heat vision, etc.

#42 Cujogoodie

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 10:42 AM

Didn't he try space dumping DD in Death of Superman?


Maybe he did, I don't recall it.

I did. Look at the damage he sustained in that story. He got a few scrapes and cuts. A couple of bruises. Maybe some broken ribs. And Superman died.


Most of the damage is internal, that's what punching does to you, you don't get ripped in half or something like that unless the guy is that much stronger than you. We should also note that Doomsday died as well.

Read the whole of the story arc World War Hulk. Every New York based superhero tried to stop Hulk, and noone could do it. Only Marvel's resident PIS-pot Sentry could give him a run, and even he was KO'd by Hulks weaker side, Banner. I'm not saying my cardio is better than Clark's, this is a comparison between the two characters.


I did read it, I remember Ghost Rider fighting him and not losing, even though the Rider really wasn't in the fight, I remember Juggernaut being flat out even with Hulk before he got judoed away. It's also funny that you cal Sentry the PIS-pot, considering that for Hulk to even be at the top, guys like Thor, Silver Surfer, etc. Have to forget that they even have powers other than punch punch kick. It's like they fight him straight-up because...Maybe that's the only way the plot could have Hulk win? Gee, what do we call that? Oh that's right, Plot Induced Stupidity.

Also, remember that when we talk about these fights, you have to think of the character not just the powers-list. Kal could do many things.
He could knitHulkasweatermadeoutofgammaabsorbingyarnputitonhimatsuperspeedandspankhimwhil
esinging"IWishIWereanOscar-MeyerWeiner".
But he wouldn't. Because that's not how Superman does things. Supes has a bad habit of fighting on someone else's terms. Hulk? Hulk Smash.


Superman is not Rhino, Superman is not stupid, but I'm not about to get into that argument with you. I will repeat, for the third time, Hulk does not start out as a Class 100(Thor, Namor underwater, that type of guy), he starts out at Thing levels, that's not close to Superman, this fight is over long before he gets that angry.

#43 chaos-with-honor

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 03:21 PM

Most of the damage is internal, that's what punching does to you, you don't get ripped in half or something like that unless the guy is that much stronger than you. We should also note that Doomsday died as well.

Or unless the guy you're fighting has bone claws on his knuckles that don't immediately shatter on impact with your "super hard" skin. Looked at doomsday's hands lately? And Doomsday didn't die. His metabolism slowed to reengineer his body to take the punishment. That's why Cyborg strapped him to a rock and hurled him into space. Well, that and to have a safe place to store his essence should he(Cyborg) be destroyed on earth.

I did read it, I remember Ghost Rider fighting him and not losing, even though the Rider really wasn't in the fight, I remember Juggernaut being flat out even with Hulk before he got judoed away. It's also funny that you call Sentry the PIS-pot, considering that for Hulk to even be at the top, guys like Thor, Silver Surfer, etc. Have to forget that they even have powers other than punch punch kick. It's like they fight him straight-up because...Maybe that's the only way the plot could have Hulk win? Gee, what do we call that? Oh that's right, Plot Induced Stupidity.

I remember the actual power-set of the Blaze Ghost Rider. His strength is related to hellfire, as is his equipment. I also remember Doc Strange talking about how powerful GR is in that exact issue. Let's not get into a discussion of GR right now, though. As for the others, maybe they think like you do. "If I hit him hard enough, fast enough, I can take him out before he gets angry." Then it's too late to change tactics, because he's on you.

I will repeat, for the third time, Hulk does not start out as a Class 100(Thor, Namor underwater, that type of guy), he starts out at Thing levels, that's not close to Superman, this fight is over long before he gets that angry.

You mean that Thor, Namor, etc., start out at class 100 strength, hit Hulk with enchanted hammers, boulders, fists and such, and he still fights them to a stand still? Sounds to me like you're agreeing that Hulk could take that kind of punishment at his starting levels.

Further, I say to you that if the Hulk isn't angry, he's Banner. Yeah, Supes could take Banner down long before he could get angry. If the Hulk is present, and Supes does his normal thing, which is hit it to see if it falls, he's toast, just like Thor, Surfer, and yes, the PIS-pot Sentry. Superman has standard tactics that he uses against unknown foes, and they involve gradually upping the intensity of his attacks until they fall, or changing tactics if the oppontent is not a physical force. He never grabs Myx by the throat and threaten to burn his head off if he doesn't go away. He plays Myx's game. He doesn't moon dump Metallo. He doesn't hurl Lex into the sun. He doesn't do these things, even when doing them would better the whole of society. Example: The Joker is still alive after his trip to Metropolis.

What justification could you offer that says Superman would do any of these things to Hulk? Not could, WOULD. You can't, he wouldn't.

#44 Cujogoodie

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 09:26 AM

Or unless the guy you're fighting has bone claws on his knuckles that don't immediately shatter on impact with your "super hard" skin. Looked at doomsday's hands lately? And Doomsday didn't die. His metabolism slowed to reengineer his body to take the punishment. That's why Cyborg strapped him to a rock and hurled him into space. Well, that and to have a safe place to store his essence should he(Cyborg) be destroyed on earth.


By your standard of dead, Superman didn't die either. Hank Henshaw did the same thing with Clark, so neither of them died according to you.

I remember the actual power-set of the Blaze Ghost Rider. His strength is related to hellfire, as is his equipment. I also remember Doc Strange talking about how powerful GR is in that exact issue. Let's not get into a discussion of GR right now, though.


You brought up WWH. That was in WWH.

As for the others, maybe they think like you do. "If I hit him hard enough, fast enough, I can take him out before he gets angry." Then it's too late to change tactics, because he's on you.


Not really, I think "Throw him away because he can't come back." Or hell, they could just...Use their super-speed and not get hit? Surfer is especially guilty of that against Hulk, Gladiator as well, even when his strength has reached the levels to hurt them, he still isn't fast enough to actually hit someone on that level(Gladiator or Silver Surfer, Thor isn't on that level) unless they let him.

You mean that Thor, Namor, etc., start out at class 100 strength, hit Hulk with enchanted hammers, boulders, fists and such, and he still fights them to a stand still? Sounds to me like you're agreeing that Hulk could take that kind of punishment at his starting levels.


Not really, as I can remember Hulk getting KOed by Thor's lighting, and Hulk flat out saying that Namor had beat him when they were underwater(Where Namor is class 100).

Further, I say to you that if the Hulk isn't angry, he's Banner. Yeah, Supes could take Banner down long before he could get angry. If the Hulk is present, and Supes does his normal thing, which is hit it to see if it falls, he's toast, just like Thor, Surfer, and yes, the PIS-pot Sentry. Superman has standard tactics that he uses against unknown foes, and they involve gradually upping the intensity of his attacks until they fall, or changing tactics if the oppontent is not a physical force. He never grabs Myx by the throat and threaten to burn his head off if he doesn't go away. He plays Myx's game. He doesn't moon dump Metallo. He doesn't hurl Lex into the sun. He doesn't do these things, even when doing them would better the whole of society. Example: The Joker is still alive after his trip to Metropolis.

What justification could you offer that says Superman would do any of these things to Hulk? Not could, WOULD. You can't, he wouldn't.


What justification could I offer that Superman wouldn't fight a pretty much mindless brick with no real speed on their terms? Hmm...Maybe the fact that since Doomsday laid him out the first time, he's never fought him like that again, in fact, he outright went through Doomsday's punches on account of his speed, he's done the same thing to Mongul, when he knows that the guy is that strong, he doesn't mes around. The reason he doesn't kill guys well under his power is because without them, his stories would suck, and there's no argument that can be made to the contrary, Superman needs those villains to tell a good story, but guess what, this, a Rumble, it isn't about telling a story, not in the slightest. It's about "These two guys fight, who wins?" so Superman doesn't have to preserve this bad guy, or even humor his laughably inferior speed, he simply answers that question, and the answer is that he wins on account of superior starting strength, and a speed difference that cannot be overcome.

#45 Ghost Tiger

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 11:42 PM

By your standard of dead, Superman didn't die either. Hank Henshaw did the same thing with Clark, so neither of them died according to you.



You brought up WWH. That was in WWH.



Not really, I think "Throw him away because he can't come back." Or hell, they could just...Use their super-speed and not get hit? Surfer is especially guilty of that against Hulk, Gladiator as well, even when his strength has reached the levels to hurt them, he still isn't fast enough to actually hit someone on that level(Gladiator or Silver Surfer, Thor isn't on that level) unless they let him.



Not really, as I can remember Hulk getting KOed by Thor's lighting, and Hulk flat out saying that Namor had beat him when they were underwater(Where Namor is class 100).



What justification could I offer that Superman wouldn't fight a pretty much mindless brick with no real speed on their terms? Hmm...Maybe the fact that since Doomsday laid him out the first time, he's never fought him like that again, in fact, he outright went through Doomsday's punches on account of his speed, he's done the same thing to Mongul, when he knows that the guy is that strong, he doesn't mes around. The reason he doesn't kill guys well under his power is because without them, his stories would suck, and there's no argument that can be made to the contrary, Superman needs those villains to tell a good story, but guess what, this, a Rumble, it isn't about telling a story, not in the slightest. It's about "These two guys fight, who wins?" so Superman doesn't have to preserve this bad guy, or even humor his laughably inferior speed, he simply answers that question, and the answer is that he wins on account of superior starting strength, and a speed difference that cannot be overcome.


Exactly

#46 metamutant

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 07:32 AM

Krpytonians > Gamma power

combination of speed, power, invulnerability, super human everything, a power source that never runs out > unlimited strength and healing factor

#47 chaos-with-honor

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 11:59 AM

By your standard of dead, Superman didn't die either. Hank Henshaw did the same thing with Clark, so neither of them died according to you.

Yeah, you're right. Except that Supes said he was. Walked into the white light and all. I'm not saying he didn't come back, heck, people are recussitated all the time.

You brought up WWH. That was in WWH.

Yes I did, and yes it is. However, you are trying to use that as a low showing, when clearly, by the issue's own exposition it is not. Which is why I didn't want to start a new debate on this thread. This is Superman Vs. Hulk, not Hulk Vs. a force of nature that has existed since the dawn of time.

Not really, I think "Throw him away because he can't come back." Or hell, they could just...Use their super-speed and not get hit? Surfer is especially guilty of that against Hulk, Gladiator as well, even when his strength has reached the levels to hurt them, he still isn't fast enough to actually hit someone on that level(Gladiator or Silver Surfer, Thor isn't on that level) unless they let him.

Then why do you keep referring to speed-blitzing Hulk? And yeah, they do have other powers they could and probably should use. The fact is that he has the capasity to harm them. That's the point of bringing up the fights with them.

Not really, as I can remember Hulk getting KOed by Thor's lighting, and Hulk flat out saying that Namor had beat him when they were underwater(Where Namor is class 100).

So what you're really trying to get across is that anyone can get caught. It's true, happens to fighters all over the world, every day. Even to...dare I say...SUPERMAN?!

What justification could I offer that Superman wouldn't fight a pretty much mindless brick with no real speed on their terms? Hmm...Maybe the fact that since Doomsday laid him out the first time, he's never fought him like that again, in fact, he outright went through Doomsday's punches on account of his speed, he's done the same thing to Mongul, when he knows that the guy is that strong, he doesn't mes around.
The reason he doesn't kill guys well under his power is because without them, his stories would suck, and there's no argument that can be made to the contrary, Superman needs those villains to tell a good story, but guess what, (and this is my personal favorite part of your post)this, a Rumble, it isn't about telling a story, not in the slightest. It's about "These two guys fight, who wins?" so Superman doesn't have to preserve this bad guy, or even humor his laughably inferior speed, he simply answers that question, and the answer is that he wins on account of superior starting strength, and a speed difference that cannot be overcome.


I like those parts you tried to cover up, there "since the first time", and "when he knows". So you're invoking the power of prep-time on behalf of Supes? That's a new arguement. It'd work, too. Superman has a super-intellect. Unfortunately, using the same rational as your next arguement, it's out the window.
I've already said that Superman's power-set has the advantage. If we're not going to talk about the character why are we even debating? Yes, Super strength, super speed, lazer eyes, invulnerability, and super-knitting outweigh super strength and super healing. However, without a guiding force, those things mean nothing. A rocket launcher is deadly, but not if you leave it on the floor where noone can touch it. Superman is not Supreme. Superman is not Mr. Majestic. Superman IS the guiding force behind his power-set. HE canot defeat Hulk, because of the same reasons he couldn't defeat Doomsday in their first encounter.

#48 metamutant

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 03:56 PM

"HE canot defeat Hulk, because of the same reasons he couldn't defeat Doomsday in their first encounter."

That's called PIS. Like when Dr. Oct ko'ed Hulk. So by your logic lets ignore all of the billion other fights that Supes had with super strong types like Grundy, Lobo, Orion, Shaggy Man General Eiling, Mongul, Despero, Atlas, Darkseid, even Doomsday again etc... where Supes constantly shrugged off physical attacks to pwn them all. And instead lets focus on the one time that he lost a physical battle and judge him on that alone. Plus by your logic Supes would kill Hulk just like he killed Doomsday in their first encounter and then Supes would die from the aftermath of that battle.

#49 chaos-with-honor

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 04:26 PM

"HE canot defeat Hulk, because of the same reasons he couldn't defeat Doomsday in their first encounter."

That's called PIS. Like when Dr. Oct ko'ed Hulk. So by your logic lets ignore all of the billion other fights that Supes had with super strong types like Grundy, Lobo, Orion, Shaggy Man General Eiling, Mongul, Despero, Atlas, Darkseid, even Doomsday again etc... where Supes constantly shrugged off physical attacks to pwn them all. And instead lets focus on the one time that he lost a physical battle and judge him on that alone. Plus by your logic Supes would kill Hulk just like he killed Doomsday in their first encounter and then Supes would die from the aftermath of that battle.

Get your acronyms right. It's called CIS. And I think it's only fair to focus on the Doomsday fight seeing as how that is the character most resembling the Hulk that Superman has fought.
Grundy? Doesn't get stronger as the fight goes on.
Lobo? Again. Great healing factor, though. That fight ended in a draw.
Orion? Haven't seen them tie up physically, but he's still not getting stronger as the fight progresses.
Darkseid? Can't kill Supes because he's "necessary for the universal order". There's some PIS for you.
Doomsday, again? As I said in my last post, it required a FIRST fight for him to change tactics. A fight which he did not win. Hulk regens as fast as Doomsday, and... Strength.
As for the rest, show me the scans that say they're in Hulk's league physically, and you'll have made a point.

Again, as I said in my last post, anyone can get caught. Happens to fighters everyday all over the world. Like when Prometheus took out the entire JLA, and not just some 'B' team either -Supes, Wonder Woman, Batman, real heavy hitters in the DCU- and was floored by Catwoman because he forgot to wear a cup.

And for the record, I said Supes can't beat Hulk. If they both die, it's a draw.

#50 metamutant

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 04:51 PM

Get your acronyms right. It's called CIS. And I think it's only fair to focus on the Doomsday fight seeing as how that is the character most resembling the Hulk that Superman has fought.
Grundy? Doesn't get stronger as the fight goes on.
Lobo? Again. Great healing factor, though. That fight ended in a draw.
Orion? Haven't seen them tie up physically, but he's still not getting stronger as the fight progresses.
Darkseid? Can't kill Supes because he's "necessary for the universal order". There's some PIS for you.
Doomsday, again? As I said in my last post, it required a FIRST fight for him to change tactics. A fight which he did not win. Hulk regens as fast as Doomsday, and... Strength.
As for the rest, show me the scans that say they're in Hulk's league physically, and you'll have made a point.

Again, as I said in my last post, anyone can get caught. Happens to fighters everyday all over the world. Like when Prometheus took out the entire JLA, and not just some 'B' team either -Supes, Wonder Woman, Batman, real heavy hitters in the DCU- and was floored by Catwoman because he forgot to wear a cup.

And for the record, I said Supes can't beat Hulk. If they both die, it's a draw.


You seem to posses somewhat limited intelligence on this matter. Allow me to help you out friend. Character Induced Stupidity example is Wolverine getting past Magneto's force shields almost everytime they fight. Plot Induced Stupidity examples are Thor being dropped by a bullet, Ka-Zar beating Thanos. The whole "Death of Superman" story was PIS seeing as how for the plot to continue and Superman to be killed, Superman was written to ignore his advantages of super speed, flight, intelligence i.e. (get the phantom zone projector and zap DD there) so he could die in the very end of that arc.

Doomsday doesn't get stronger as the fight goes on he gets stronger after he dies to withstand that kind of attack. Grundy can go back to the Swamp and get stronger currently he has beaten Bizarro and Amazo. PC Mongul was a beast and Despero beat the whole JLA. Orion has a little something called a mother box that can restore his strength or amped up his abilities. Besides most of the characters I mention are stronger than Hulk's base strength and without PIS Supes would just grab Hulk and ftl speed and throw him in the sun.

#51 chaos-with-honor

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 05:36 PM

You seem to posses somewhat limited intelligence on this matter. Allow me to help you out friend. Character Induced Stupidity example is Wolverine getting past Magneto's force shields almost everytime they fight. Plot Induced Stupidity examples are Thor being dropped by a bullet, Ka-Zar beating Thanos. The whole "Death of Superman" story was PIS seeing as how for the plot to continue and Superman to be killed, Superman was written to ignore his advantages of super speed, flight, intelligence i.e. (get the phantom zone projector and zap DD there) so he could die in the very end of that arc.

Doomsday doesn't get stronger as the fight goes on he gets stronger after he dies to withstand that kind of attack. Grundy can go back to the Swamp and get stronger currently he has beaten Bizarro and Amazo. PC Mongul was a beast and Despero beat the whole JLA. Orion has a little something called a mother box that can restore his strength or amped up his abilities. Besides most of the characters I mention are stronger than Hulk's base strength and without PIS Supes would just grab Hulk and ftl speed and throw him in the sun.

Somewhat limited information, yes. Intelligence, no. Character Induced Stupidity is a Character making poor choices because it is his nature to do so. You're saying Magneto purposefully lets Wolvie past his shields? That would be Character Stupidity. Sentry purposefully slugging it out with WWH? Perhaps Superman going toe to toe with Doomsday?Again Character Stupidity. Good examples of PIS though. Right on the money. With Thor and Ka-Zar, anyway.

Thank you for reitterating what I said about Doomsday. I'm glad we've found anothert point to agree on. Grundy taking down Bizzaro and Amazo are pretty good feats. Unfortunately, Grundy has been shown to be weaker than the Hulk on the old CBUB, so he's not really a candidate for "just like the Hulk", especially since he doesn't get stronger on the fly. Mother Boxes are nifty toys, though. Last I saw, they required either verbal or tactile control to get anything out of, though. Could this be where your speed-blitz comes in? And when did Pre-Crisis anything come into the equasion?

Gotta give you Despero, though. However, when you say the whole JLA, doesn't that mean Supes, also? Coulda sworn he was in on that whole Identity Crisis thing... Wasn't Martian Manhunter the one that finally took him down?

Speaking of which, how is Despero these days? Enjoying his sundip, is he? NO? I wonder why that is. Could it be because Superman wouldn't throw him into the sun?
By your logic, Superman would have neither morals, nor consience if he wasn't constrained by the CCA. That would make him just like Supreme, decapitating terrorists, or just like Mr. Majestic, initiating a fascist regime. You are trying to make this a match using those characters rather than Superman. Or, more aptly, how you would use Superman's powers. Superman is defined by the way he treats people, friend and foe alike, not his power set. He went along with the whole erased memory thing because he didn't believe in executions. And you set forth for us to believe that he would just shrug off 77 years of continuity of action because of what exactly? Hulk is scary looking?

#52 metamutant

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 06:51 PM

You're saying Magneto purposefully lets Wolvie past his shields? That would be Character Stupidity.



Im saying Magneto has a brain lock and forgets to put his shields up but yeah either way CIS.

Sentry purposefully slugging it out with WWH?



true CIS but still even though Sentry fought the Hulk in a slugfest which is to Hulk's advantage it still ended in a stalemate and they were both reduce to their human forms. Supes doesn't have that problem.

And when did Pre-Crisis anything come into the equasion?


PC Mongul was more impressive. He pwn Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, GL Hal and even had a short-lived victory of PC Supes. My point was that PC Mongul had comparable strength to Hulk.

Gotta give you Despero, though. However, when you say the whole JLA, doesn't that mean Supes, also? Coulda sworn he was in on that whole Identity Crisis thing... Wasn't Martian Manhunter the one that finally took him down?


Yes and Yes. Despero also has great psychic powers among others. His displays of strength and invulnerability while mostly very high has been shown to be inconsistent at times. But I guess one could say that about many characters.

Speaking of which, how is Despero these days? Enjoying his sundip, is he? NO? I wonder why that is. Could it be because Superman wouldn't throw him into the sun?
By your logic, Superman would have neither morals, nor consience if he wasn't constrained by the CCA. That would make him just like Supreme, decapitating terrorists, or just like Mr. Majestic, initiating a fascist regime. You are trying to make this a match using those characters rather than Superman. Or, more aptly, how you would use Superman's powers. Superman is defined by the way he treats people, friend and foe alike, not his power set. He went along with the whole erased memory thing because he didn't believe in executions. And you set forth for us to believe that he would just shrug off 77 years of continuity of action because of what exactly? Hulk is scary looking?


Supes could win many other ways without killing. I was just stating non-cis/pis examples if Supes fought to his ability but he rarely does. But you compared this match to DD vs Supes in which he did kill. The same can be said for Hulk even WWH who didn't kill any good guys. Hulk would get some licks in and knock Supes around before Supes would realize that it would take all his power to ko/defeat him. That's how Supes mostly fights against Bricks. He takes some punches and gauges his opponent before he lets loose.

#53 Ghost Tiger

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:45 PM

Well Hulk must have done something to make Superman fight him in the first place. That means Hulk has put someone Superman cares about, or just life in general in danger. Usually Superman looks for a way to subdue his opponent without killing them, or tries to find a way to bind them or imprison them.

Superman doesn't have to kill him. Hulk can be knocked out, or reverted back to human form (remember the fight with Sentry?) Heck Superman could take Hulk to the Moon where he is no longer a threat and leave him there.

#54 chaos-with-honor

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 12:45 PM

Even though Sentry fought the Hulk in a slugfest which is to Hulk's advantage it still ended in a stalemate and they were both reduce to their human forms. Supes doesn't have that problem.

True. But I'm not convinced that Supes can stand toe to toe like the Sentry did. I said it before: Supes has a poor chin. Things that don't hurt him, aren't a problem, but if there's one step over the line, he crumples.

PC Mongul was more impressive. He pwn Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, GL Hal and even had a short-lived victory of PC Supes. My point was that PC Mongul had comparable strength to Hulk.

I think you're slowly coming around to my way of thinking, here. Even a short lived victory over PC-Superman is a massive feat in anyone's library. PC Mongul was a beast. who had strength comparable to Hulk. You're saying Hulk could handle PC Supes? Even for a short time? I'm not even willing to go that far. But hey, if the Superman camp says it is so, it must be.

Supes could win many other ways without killing. I was just stating non-cis/pis examples if Supes fought to his ability but he rarely does. But you compared this match to DD vs Supes in which he did kill. The same can be said for Hulk even WWH who didn't kill any good guys. Hulk would get some licks in and knock Supes around before Supes would realize that it would take all his power to ko/defeat him. That's how Supes mostly fights against Bricks. He takes some punches and gauges his opponent before he lets loose.

This is what I've been saying all along. Superman's power-set is enormous and in the hands of a relentless warrior, there is no way Hulk could overcome it. Put Supreme or Majestic in here, and Hulk is spanked like a three-year-old at K-Mart. Supes is different, though. He won't go all out in the begining, and that will let Hulk catch up and surpass him with his healing and strength. As I've said, DD is the closest to Hulk that Supes has faced - eccentially mindless, angry, and destructive. DD's Healing is comparable to Hulk's. However, Hulk gets stronger and more resistant as the fight goes on, where DD gets tougher if he "dies". Supes would do his normal thing, and get in over his head with something he didn't understand.

And Ghost Tiger -

Hulk's presence is enough to bring the attention of passing meta's. Once again, large, angry, destructive force.
Hulk can be knocked out, but not without considerable power expenditure on the part of the opponent, or the collusion of Banner from within the Hulk's mind, Doc Ock notwithstanding. I'll say again that I don't believe Supes could exhaust Hulk enough to revert him back to human form. As for the moon thing, I bring the WWH fight with Black Bolt into the arguement. True, it was a Skrull, but that in no way negates the threat of Hulk in low G.

#55 metamutant

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 03:52 PM

True. But I'm not convinced that Supes can stand toe to toe like the Sentry did. I said it before: Supes has a poor chin. Things that don't hurt him, aren't a problem, but if there's one step over the line, he crumples.


We will just have to disagree on that one. Magic and kryptonite hurts Supes but he has withstood both in high degrees (Metallo's krptonite blasts and Cap Marvel's magic lightning).
He even defeated a Doomsday clone fuse with kryptonite. Most of Supes history shows that he is highly resistant to brute force attacks by Bricks.

I think you're slowly coming around to my way of thinking, here. Even a short lived victory over PC-Superman is a massive feat in anyone's library. PC Mongul was a beast. who had strength comparable to Hulk. You're saying Hulk could handle PC Supes? Even for a short time? I'm not even willing to go that far. But hey, if the Superman camp says it is so, it must be.


Hulk at base strength no. WWH strength level would be around PC Mongul by all indications. But other things beside strength allowed Mongul to get a victory over Supes, like his energy projection, telepathy, teleportation, combined with his massive strength and invulnerability.

Superman's power-set is enormous and in the hands of a relentless warrior, there is no way Hulk could overcome it. Put Supreme or Majestic in here, and Hulk is spanked like a three-year-old at K-Mart.



:wacko: Wow you don't get that kind of honesty from Hulk fans that often. That's basically my point. I never said Hulk couldn't win, I simply stated why he shouldn't win if Supes used a small part of his super-intelligence.

#56 boston_celtics

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 06:05 PM

Superman will win this fight, because he is so much faster. Death of Superman was a DC publicity stunt, in his other fights with DD, Superman pwned DD with speed.

#57 chaos-with-honor

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 10:10 PM

Superman will win this fight, because he is so much faster. Death of Superman was a DC publicity stunt, in his other fights with DD, Superman pwned DD with speed.

Boston, this is a serious debate. There is no ..room...for..wait, wait, let me start that again.

There is no room for... no not this time. One more.

There is no room in this thread for cynicism... :wacko:

Dude, every comic is nothing more than a publicity stunt! They're all a plot to get advertisement money! The fact that sites like this exist proves that they work. Now would you please let us get back to trying to ignore the real world for a bit and get back to our childish bickering? Thank you sir.

ANYWAY...


Beginning with Mongul. Strip the teleportation, telepathy, and energy projection from Mongul, pull the PC off of Superman, and I'd say you have the DD fight. Add to that the constantly growing strength and you have a recipe for Super-disaster. Although I think you're overstating things a bit. Even PC Mongul wasn't pulling continental plates back together.

Honesty is what I do. I've said repeatedly that the power-set is horribly one-sided. Supes just doesn't have what it takes emotionally to push as soon as he'd need to in order to handle Hulk. Be it Savage or WWH. This fight reminds me of the War World Arc, back in the day. Supes is making a speech about how they've always handled alien invasions after the fact, but War World is so dangerous that they have to prepare long in advance. This is the same type of thing, except that Supes doesn't know what he's getting into.

#58 boston_celtics

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 06:32 AM

So, Superman Prime is Superman 1 million? Or is Superman 1 million the Superman of the Justice Legion and Superman Prime is Kal-El?

#59 chaos-with-honor

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 10:20 AM

So, Superman Prime is Superman 1 million? Or is Superman 1 million the Superman of the Justice Legion and Superman Prime is Kal-El?

Qua?

I can only presume that this was posted in the wrong thread for some unknown reason. However, Prime is Kal-El. 1,000,000 is the Superman of the Justice Legion.

#60 boston_celtics

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 06:45 AM

Qua?

I can only presume that this was posted in the wrong thread for some unknown reason. However, Prime is Kal-El. 1,000,000 is the Superman of the Justice Legion.


How did this end up here? "shrug"




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