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#21 MarvelFan15

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 01:00 PM

I didn't mean you personally <_< ...just most people who argue for Hulk.


Alright.

I am just saying that there is no hard proof that it's limitless, just mere speculation.


I have a scan that has Pre-Retcon beyonder admitting Hulk' power is limitless...Do you want me to post it?

#22 Cujogoodie

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 09:43 PM

It doesn't change that he can, and has, been knocked out before he got to levels where he was a legit class 100, but Superman is well capable of ending the fight before it gets to that point.

#23 Ghost Tiger

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 09:50 PM

It doesn't change that he can, and has, been knocked out before he got to levels where he was a legit class 100, but Superman is well capable of ending the fight before it gets to that point.


Exactly


As for Marvelfan no I'll take your word for it I trust you, however I don't know, characters have made claims about other characters before that have turned out unfounded, or straight out wrong.

#24 MarvelFan15

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 10:03 PM

As for Marvelfan no I'll take your word for it I trust you, however I don't know, characters have made claims about other characters before that have turned out unfounded, or straight out wrong.


Umm...This is Pre-Retcon Beyonder. He was an entity with power millions of times greater than all other power combined, throughout the whole multiverse, as well as being virtually omniscient...And he admitted Hulk's power was "infinite."

Although...I guess it depends on the writer.

#25 Ghost Tiger

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 10:05 PM

Hmm, very interesting. I suppose for arguments sake Hulk's strength is unlimited, although I find the term "infinite power" a little sketchy.

There are still plenty of ways that Superman could win this.

#26 MarvelFan15

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 06:21 PM

Hmm, very interesting. I suppose for arguments sake Hulk's strength is unlimited, although I find the term "infinite power" a little sketchy.

There are still plenty of ways that Superman could win this.



Fair 'nuff.

#27 chaos-with-honor

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 09:35 AM

Ok. Here's a simple, logical explaination for the unlimited rage thing. If you'll notice, Hulk gets bigger as he gets stonger. As he calms down, he shrinks. However, it takes his body a bit of time to catch up with the drop in his emotional level. Therefore, he gets angry, his body reacts. He calms a bit by taking his rage out on an opponent, then gets hit again, thus becoming angry again. His body hasn't caught up with his emotional response, so the same rush that caused the initial mass increase happens again, causing a second mass increase comparable to the first, and so on. This is how he can be said to have "unlimited anger".

As for who would win the fight.....
Hate to say it, but Supes takes it. Nothing he has by itself would be enough, but the combination of powers would do the job, unless we're talking about WW Hulk. WWH could concievably outsmart Supes and turn half of his powers against him (heat vision, freezing breath). And even Savage has taken super-speedsters quite handily. Flight is really the best weapon Supes has.

#28 MarvelFan15

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 01:56 PM

Ok. Here's a simple, logical explaination for the unlimited rage thing. If you'll notice, Hulk gets bigger as he gets stonger. As he calms down, he shrinks. However, it takes his body a bit of time to catch up with the drop in his emotional level. Therefore, he gets angry, his body reacts. He calms a bit by taking his rage out on an opponent, then gets hit again, thus becoming angry again. His body hasn't caught up with his emotional response, so the same rush that caused the initial mass increase happens again, causing a second mass increase comparable to the first, and so on. This is how he can be said to have "unlimited anger".


I think you've confused Ang Lee's Hulk with the comic version...
In the comic, there is no detectable mass or size increase when Hulk is enraged.

Unless, this is something that was added recently, and that I'm unaware of? :huh:

#29 chaos-with-honor

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 10:48 AM

I think you've confused Ang Lee's Hulk with the comic version...
In the comic, there is no detectable mass or size increase when Hulk is enraged.

Unless, this is something that was added recently, and that I'm unaware of? :huh:

Just noting history. In the beginnig, he was about Lou Ferrigno sized. As his body has grown accustomed to the changes he was inducing, he's grown to being about the size of a house, now.

Besides, 'mass' and 'height' are not interchangable words. Banner is 5'8". Hulk is, what, 9'0"? This is the inital mass increase I was refering to. He becomes more solid, stronger, and more durable.

Also, to whomever mentioned it before, I'd like to point out that having a response to a pain causing stimuli doesn't mean real damage is done. Flea bites hurt, but it would take millions to actually do any signifigant damage.

#30 boston_celtics

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 06:38 AM

Hulk does not increase in size outside of the original Banner transformation. If he did, then Savage Hulk (Who busted Onslaught's armor) should be the size of a planet.

#31 chaos-with-honor

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 09:29 AM

Again, I'm refering to mass, not necessarily size. Think lead and paper. Smelted to the same size and thickness of a ream of paper, lead would have a much greater mass. Density increases, though not necessarily outward appearance.

In essence, Banner increases his mass to accomodate the Hulk. This mass is too great to be constrained by his human form, thus the outward size increase. This new form has much more room to grow, so to speak, so when the mass effect happens a second time, the body simply becomes more dense.

Side note:
The Hulk generates a field of gamma radiation. Could he be directing this as a force, not unlike gravity, to enhance his strength? Gamma has some odd properties in the MCU.

#32 MarvelFan15

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 01:39 PM

Side note:
The Hulk generates a field of gamma radiation. Could he be directing this as a force, not unlike gravity, to enhance his strength? Gamma has some odd properties in the MCU.


Everything has odd properties in the MCU...all of comics for that matter.

I've never heard of it being used like that though.

#33 LegendX

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 11:25 AM

Also, to whomever mentioned it before, I'd like to point out that having a response to a pain causing stimuli doesn't mean real damage is done. Flea bites hurt, but it would take millions to actually do any signifigant damage.

Probably my comment you're referring to. In response I ask this:

You punch two guys square in the jaw, each with equal force...
The first ones rocks back, slightly on one foot and winces just a little. The second doesn't budge at all or even seem to notice. Neither are damaged. Which would you think to be the more durable (or at least have the better chin) of the two?

That aside, as I think I've mention, Wolverine has cut thru and stabbed Hulk in the past. I seriously doubt Wolverine is strong enough to do that to Superman.

#34 MarvelFan15

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 12:02 PM

That aside, as I think I've mention, Wolverine has cut thru and stabbed Hulk in the past. I seriously doubt Wolverine is strong enough to do that to Superman.


Wolverine cutting through Hulk is pure PIS, nothing more. Most of Wolverine's feats are PIS anyway.

But, if we're going to take all of Wolverine's cutting feats into consideration...he cut Thanos. Thanos! Albeit in an alternate universe...

#35 chaos-with-honor

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 09:50 AM

You punch two guys square in the jaw, each with equal force...
The first ones rocks back, slightly on one foot and winces just a little. The second doesn't budge at all or even seem to notice. Neither are damaged. Which would you think to be the more durable (or at least have the better chin) of the two?



First, if I hit two guys like that and neither was damaged, I think I'd run prior to trying to decide who had better durability. I think our connotations for the word are different. When I think of durability I think of endurance, in Rocky speak "How much you can take and still move forward." Hulk can take what just about anyone dishes out and do that very thing. If something steps over Superman's threshhold even just the tiniest bit, he drops. Doomsday springs to mind. As does Brainiac contacting him telepathicly.

If I put things into the terms of your analogy and my conotations, I would say that Supes has more short term durability, but Hulk has a better chin. Superman is great out of the gate, but not much for stamina.

#36 boston_celtics

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 10:29 AM

Hulk has superior endurance. Superman was knocked out cold by a supernova, whilst Hulk has withstood Human Torch's nova flame quite easily.

#37 Cujogoodie

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 10:39 AM

Superman is great out of the gate, but not much for stamina.


Read The Death of Superman.

That fight, which is really how this would play out if Superman decided he didn't want to use any of his esoteric powers, went on for quite a while.

I still don't see how this has gone on for so long, if Superman fights Hulk like he fought Doomsday, he'll lose, if he decides that he wants to, I don't know, use his speed, he can just punch Hulk's head off before Hulk knows the fight has begun, or chuck him into space, or just never get hit by Hulk for the entire match.

#38 boston_celtics

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 10:44 AM

Read The Death of Superman.

That fight, which is really how this would play out if Superman decided he didn't want to use any of his esoteric powers, went on for quite a while.

I still don't see how this has gone on for so long, if Superman fights Hulk like he fought Doomsday, he'll lose, if he decides that he wants to, I don't know, use his speed, he can just punch Hulk's head off before Hulk knows the fight has begun, or chuck him into space, or just never get hit by Hulk for the entire match.


Didn't he try space dumping DD in Death of Superman?

#39 chaos-with-honor

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 11:28 AM

Read The Death of Superman.

That fight, which is really how this would play out if Superman decided he didn't want to use any of his esoteric powers, went on for quite a while.

I did. Look at the damage he sustained in that story. He got a few scrapes and cuts. A couple of bruises. Maybe some broken ribs. And Superman died.

Read the whole of the story arc World War Hulk. Every New York based superhero tried to stop Hulk, and noone could do it. Only Marvel's resident PIS-pot Sentry could give him a run, and even he was KO'd by Hulks weaker side, Banner. I'm not saying my cardio is better than Clark's, this is a comparison between the two characters.

Also, remember that when we talk about these fights, you have to think of the character not just the powers-list. Kal could do many things.
He could knitHulkasweatermadeoutofgammaabsorbingyarnputitonhimatsuperspeedandspankhimwhil
esinging"IWishIWereanOscar-MeyerWeiner".
But he wouldn't. Because that's not how Superman does things. Supes has a bad habit of fighting on someone else's terms. Hulk? Hulk Smash.

#40 LegendX

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 12:01 AM

First, if I hit two guys like that and neither was damaged, I think I'd run prior to trying to decide who had better durability. I think our connotations for the word are different. When I think of durability I think of endurance, in Rocky speak "How much you can take and still move forward." Hulk can take what just about anyone dishes out and do that very thing. If something steps over Superman's threshhold even just the tiniest bit, he drops. Doomsday springs to mind. As does Brainiac contacting him telepathicly.

If I put things into the terms of your analogy and my conotations, I would say that Supes has more short term durability, but Hulk has a better chin. Superman is great out of the gate, but not much for stamina.

ok. I'll give him endurance. I too have noticed Supes seem to have a thin line between that which just bounces off and that which KO's him.
Pretty strange tendancy when you think about it.




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