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#1 Diskyr

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 09:55 PM

I've always wondered who'd win.

It'd be close though lol

#2 Ghost Tiger

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 12:10 AM

Superman if he doesn't hold back.

#3 Diskyr

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 02:17 PM

Superman if he doesn't hold back.


I've heard the Hulk Gets Stronger arguement from Marvel fans and fanboys.
care to explain how Superman can overcome that?

#4 Ghost Tiger

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Posted 26 June 2009 - 05:54 PM

The fact that if he didn't hold back he could take him and toss him in the sun in about 3 seconds. Now yes this isn't normally how Superman acts, however in Missions End when he believes Wonder Woman is Doomsday and has killed Lois this is exactly what he does. That's why I said if he isn't holding back.

Even if he isn't though strength is not the only factor here. Superman is FTL, ridiculously durable, amazingly strong, has laser vision hotter than the surface of the sun, super/freezing breath, super intelligent, a skilled fighter, and he can fly.

Marvel and Hulk fan boys tend to lean on one argument and that is that the angrier he gets the stronger he gets. Well the problem with that is that I have never seen Hulk in all the years strong enough that he would just be able to crush Superman to death (even if he could hit him). People mistakenly say that Hulk has no limit to his strength because the angrier he gets the stronger he gets. What they refuse to acknowledge is that A.) He doesn't have a never ending scale of anger. Once someone is angry they can't just keep on getting angrier and angrier, there is an upper limit to their anger., a point where they are as angry as they can be. B.) Even at his angriest and strongest points normal Hulk has not done anything that greatly exceeds Superman's strength range.

I find it irritating that they cling to this one line to try and win an argument.

#5 Cosmic Deadpool

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 12:35 AM

...if he isn't holding back.

Here's where we disagree... the fact that he does hold back is his downfall here. Supes's self-imposed mental blocks, are likely to have him lose this fight for the same reason that he lost to Doomsday the frist time. Not going all out against the Hulk, who is likely to go apesh*& as soon as he takes the first blow from Supes, turning him into the same raging brute type that Doomsday was when Supes got pummeled by him

... Superman is FTL, ridiculously durable, amazingly strong, has laser vision hotter than the surface of the sun, super/freezing breath, super intelligent, a skilled fighter, and he can fly.

Still disagreeing...None of these factors are of substancial power to beat Savage Hulk even at less than"full rage"

Marvel and Hulk fan boys tend to lean on one argument and that is that the angrier he gets the stronger he gets. Well the problem with that is that I have never seen Hulk in all the years strong enough that he would just be able to crush Superman to death (even if he could hit him). People mistakenly say that Hulk has no limit to his strength because the angrier he gets the stronger he gets. What they refuse to acknowledge is that A.) He doesn't have a never ending scale of anger. Once someone is angry they can't just keep on getting angrier and angrier, there is an upper limit to their anger., a point where they are as angry as they can be.

Here's where we finally agree... If part of the Hulk's power set was to be able to increase his levels of anger, even in Savage form..then I'd agree with the all of the diehard Hulk fans (except for myself..err..not that I don't agree with myself..I mean I don't use the arguement..therefore..I..do.. agree with myself?)...As he doesn't have that particular ability, his like anyone else's rage has to top out at some point and thus his level of strength would have to have a limit...the limitless strength based on anger in the Hulk's case is simply unproven hyperbole..(sorry Hulk fans other than myself)

I find it irritating that they cling to this one line to try and win an argument.

Agreed

#6 LegendX

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 02:55 AM

It occurs to me that everytime this match up is brought up we tend to try to give Hulk an advantage in assuming that we're using Sav or WW Hulk against whatever depowered form of Supes we can think of.
I believe Supes at his strongest and weakest forms would put a hurtin on Hulk in his respective forms. Sure there's some combos you can put togather where Hulk takes it, but, I'd say Supes takes the majority.

#7 Cosmic Deadpool

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 09:52 AM

It occurs to me that everytime this match up is brought up we tend to try to give Hulk an advantage in assuming that we're using Sav or WW Hulk against whatever depowered form of Supes we can think of.
I believe Supes at his strongest and weakest forms would put a hurtin on Hulk in his respective forms. Sure there's some combos you can put togather where Hulk takes it, but, I'd say Supes takes the majority.



I've created an Ion respect thread so people can see exactly why this would be a good fight. Also, something I only just picked up - you've said in the setup Kyle has a ring. If he's at 100%, he doesn't need one because the power is inside him.

It occurs to me that everytime this match up is brought up we tend to try to give Hulk an advantage in assuming that we're using Sav or WW Hulk against whatever depowered form of Supes we can think of.

I think we choose Sav, because he's the version that most people probably think about when the Hulk is in question.

I believe Supes at his strongest and weakest forms would put a hurtin on Hulk in his respective forms. Sure there's some combos you can put togather where Hulk takes it, but, I'd say Supes takes the majority.

Sure about that?

Within seconds, the Hulk recovers from a near-skeletal state.
http://img130.exs.cx...038/Healing.jpg
I doubt Supes could return from that..

Hulk battles Drax (w/ gem, IINM) to a standstill:
http://img41.exs.cx/...7/drax1a2uf.jpg
http://img41.exs.cx/...1/drax1e9do.jpg
I think Drax with an Infinity gem (who stood up to Thanos, who would destroy Darkseid, who Supes has had trouble with) is on par with Supes's strength..

Genis' first shot slows the Hulk down. His second shot is twice as powerful... but...
http://img145.exs.cx...83/genis5qn.jpg
Tanking Genis's, who is arguably as powerful as Supes, power

#8 boston_celtics

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 10:11 AM

Hulk is stronger. That is a fact i will not let go of. From all his feats like breaking the Crimson Bands of Cytorrak, destroying adamantium, the flame of life, etc.

Superman space dumps him though.

#9 LegendX

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 09:50 PM

Hulk is stronger. That is a fact i will not let go of. From all his feats like breaking the Crimson Bands of Cytorrak, destroying adamantium, the flame of life, etc.

Superman space dumps him though.


Those are items we can't prove or disprove that Supes can break, since they only exist in Marvel.

#10 Diskyr

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 09:53 PM

Hulk is stronger. That is a fact i will not let go of. From all his feats like breaking the Crimson Bands of Cytorrak, destroying adamantium, the flame of life, etc.

Superman space dumps him though.


Wait, he broke adamantium? That stuff is invulnerable to everything its dished at.

I'm not choosing sides here, but breaking magical godly bands and putting out the flame of life seems far fetched.

#11 LegendX

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 10:15 PM

I dunno 'pool, man. You guys are far more versed in comicbooks than me. But when I compared feats I've seen, the way they react to various similar stimulus... It just seems Super is stronger and more durable, most of the time. Like I see Hulk tend to hold up an arm to block bullets and they make indentations and noticably bother him where Supes just stands there like he's not being shot at and the bullets just bounce right off like rubber balls hitting a brick wall. Even the fact Wolverine technically decapped Hulk tells me he's less durable, since I don't think Logan could generate enough force to cut Superman.
I guess I'm only really familiar with versions of each that I grew up with.

#12 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 11:11 PM

Big, Green and Mean wins!

#13 Ghost Tiger

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 11:33 PM

I still haven't heard one thing from Hulk fans for reasoning other than the usual he is stronger and he gets stronger as he gets angrier. Like I said strength isn't everything. Speed can often be far more deadly than brute strength, and intelligence as well. You can't telll me that the Hulk with nothing over Superman except brute strength is sooo much ridiculously more strong than Superman that Superman's super intellect, FTL Super speed, flight, etc wont be a factor.

The first time Superman fought Doomsday was stupid, he didn't dodge or block at all, it was basically the head guy in charge saying here Superman dies lets sell some comics. It is ridiculous to think that Superman would rather die than use his powers to avoid the punishment, which he clearly could have, because the second time he fights Doomsday he dodges him easily.

You mention Hulk's strength feats, but you don't mention Superman's....even if this is the weaker modern version of Superman, he can pull 1/3 of the Earth, destroy a planet, and wrestle with creatures who have strength levels that are off the charts.

And if we are going to use the strongest Hulk's top end feats why don't we use Superman's Silver Age feats?

#14 MarvelFan15

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 02:45 PM

The fact that if he didn't hold back he could take him and toss him in the sun in about 3 seconds. Now yes this isn't normally how Superman acts, however in Missions End when he believes Wonder Woman is Doomsday and has killed Lois this is exactly what he does. That's why I said if he isn't holding back.

Even if he isn't though strength is not the only factor here. Superman is FTL, ridiculously durable, amazingly strong, has laser vision hotter than the surface of the sun, super/freezing breath, super intelligent, a skilled fighter, and he can fly.


Not dissagreeing with you here. Supes has definately got the smarts advantage.

Marvel and Hulk fan boys tend to lean on one argument and that is that the angrier he gets the stronger he gets. Well the problem with that is that I have never seen Hulk in all the years strong enough that he would just be able to crush Superman to death (even if he could hit him). People mistakenly say that Hulk has no limit to his strength because the angrier he gets the stronger he gets. What they refuse to acknowledge is that A.) He doesn't have a never ending scale of anger. Once someone is angry they can't just keep on getting angrier and angrier, there is an upper limit to their anger., a point where they are as angry as they can be.


There's a difference between anger, and adrenaline output. Even if Hulk reached a limit to his anger, his body would just keep secreting adrenaline and other hormones, which would just make him stronger, anger or not.

Also, he can, and probably does have the potential for limitless anger. This is, after all...

1) A comic book.
2) A character personality based on rage, and rage alone.

B.) Even at his angriest and strongest points normal Hulk has not done anything that greatly exceeds Superman's strength range.


Which Superman? Modern? Silver Age/Pre-Crisis?

Which version

I find it irritating that they cling to this one line to try and win an argument.


Just be aware that I never said who would win in my post. <_<

#15 MarvelFan15

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 02:50 PM

And if we are going to use the strongest Hulk's top end feats why don't we use Superman's Silver Age feats?


Because...it was let go. Hulk has always been Hulk. There was no Multiversal retcon. Silver Age is dead, unless specifically brought up into an argument by the author of said discussion.

Let it go.

#16 Ghost Tiger

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 09:59 PM

But there are numerous versions of Hulk and Hulk fans seem to think that they can just pick and choose feats from whichever Hulk they see fit. Not speaking to you or anyone in particular that is just how it seems to go.

The limitless rage thing I don;t believe and won't believe until I see something that clearly proves it. It's all based on speculation and exaggeration, the feats don't stack up with it. Also it doesn't say the more hormonal Hulk gets the stronger he gets, it says angrier <_< otherwise I'd say Hulk runs on PMS lol.

#17 MarvelFan15

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 01:07 PM

But there are numerous versions of Hulk and Hulk fans seem to think that they can just pick and choose feats from whichever Hulk they see fit. Not speaking to you or anyone in particular that is just how it seems to go.


General rule of thumb says that if a weaker version of Hulk could do it, the stronger versions can with no problem.

The limitless rage thing I don;t believe and won't believe until I see something that clearly proves it. It's all based on speculation and exaggeration, the feats don't stack up with it. Also it doesn't say the more hormonal Hulk gets the stronger he gets, it says angrier <_< otherwise I'd say Hulk runs on PMS lol.


Where does anger come from?

Chemicals in the Brain.

What causes the rush that comes with anger?

Adrenaline, and other hormones.

#18 Ghost Tiger

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 03:46 PM

Yes, but it doesn't work the other way around...there are things that some Hulks can do that others can't and you seem to throw them all together in whichever way benefits your argument.

And i was joking about the hormones, but really who says they are limitless either?

#19 MarvelFan15

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 08:13 PM

Yes, but it doesn't work the other way around...there are things that some Hulks can do that others can't and you seem to throw them all together in whichever way benefits your argument.


Umm...No, I'm not. <_<

Or are you catogorizing me with the Hulk fanboys? :huh:

And i was joking about the hormones, but really who says they are limitless either?


A body continues to generate them if they run low. Coupled with Hulk's healing factor, he'd be hard pressed to ever run out.

#20 Ghost Tiger

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 10:26 PM

I didn't mean you personally <_< ...just most people who argue for Hulk.

I am just saying that there is no hard proof that it's limitless, just mere speculation.




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