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Jack Ryan vs. Master Chief


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#41 force_echo

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 07:52 AM

Jack Ryan is left wondering what the hell a "Bioshock" is supposed to be and why he of all people is fighting Master Chief.

As he tries to radio in Admiral James Greer and DCI William Cabot for help, Master Chief blows him apart with his futuristic guns.

I don't know if you're trying to be funny, cause you're not. Look up bioshock or get off my thread.

#42 Jason Redfield

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 08:47 AM

Yeah, but every time he snaps his fingers, the flames get hotter. And hotter. And hotter. Plus he has Freeze blast to instantly freeze Shepard. Also, even if the flames aren't hot enough to o significant damage, I seriously doubt that you can fight normally when you're on fire.


*sigh*

Again, you're acting as if he has an unlimited amount of Eve and that Shepard will sit there and let him snap his fingers. It's line of sight, meaning that if he can see Shepard to set him on fire, guess what? Shepard can shoot him. And Shepard's implants give him amazing reaction times, making it much more likely that he'll drop Ryan with a burst before he ever snaps his fingers.

And in order to reach the temperatures of plasma, he'd have to snap his fingers several times. I don't think you realize the difference in heat between fire and plasma. And Shepard could definitely fight while on fire. As I've said before, his armor is ablative, designed to defend against lasers and energy weapons. You think fire will slow him down enough to keep him from filling Jack full of bullets? It won't.

Besides, the enemies in Bioshock don't even always die from Incinerate. And they have no defenses to speak of for the most part.

#43 force_echo

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 08:55 AM

*sigh*

Again, you're acting as if he has an unlimited amount of Eve and that Shepard will sit there and let him snap his fingers. It's line of sight, meaning that if he can see Shepard to set him on fire, guess what? Shepard can shoot him. And Shepard's implants give him amazing reaction times, making it much more likely that he'll drop Ryan with a burst before he ever snaps his fingers.

And in order to reach the temperatures of plasma, he'd have to snap his fingers several times. I don't think you realize the difference in heat between fire and plasma. And Shepard could definitely fight while on fire. As I've said before, his armor is ablative, designed to defend against lasers and energy weapons. You think fire will slow him down enough to keep him from filling Jack full of bullets? It won't.

Jack isn't a normal human, his armored shell plasmid is pretty strong and can withstand alot of damage. Plasma is fire, thats what fire is, energized gas, AKA, plasma. Jack wont set his armor on fire, hes not a retard, he'll aim for the head or face. You act as if snapping your fingers takes alot of time, you can snap your fingers 3 times in one second, the lowest heat of a fire is around 750 degrees Celsius, imagine 3 times that in one second.

#44 Jason Redfield

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 09:16 AM

Jack isn't a normal human, his armored shell plasmid is pretty strong and can withstand alot of damage. Plasma is fire, thats what fire is, energized gas, AKA, plasma. Jack wont set his armor on fire, hes not a retard, he'll aim for the head or face. You act as if snapping your fingers takes alot of time, you can snap your fingers 3 times in one second, the lowest heat of a fire is around 750 degrees Celsius, imagine 3 times that in one second.


Guess what? Shepard isn't a normal human either, HIS armor and shields can withstand a lot of damage. Plasma is NOT fire, and you saying that it is has ruined your credibility as far as I'm concerned. You're talking about the difference between 750 degrees Celsius and ~28,000 kelvin, or 27726.85 degree Celsius (using lightning as a real-life example for the moment). That's a LOT of finger-snapping Ryan would have to do...

And you know how many times Shepard can shoot Ryan in 3 seconds with his reaction time? A lot.

#45 Opalord

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 10:50 AM

Depending on how you set your own personal shepard, Shepard could have powers to rival Jack's, if not stronger. This is why I don't like fights involving Shepard, as there are a bajillion different Shepards running around

#46 Jason Redfield

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 11:31 AM

Depending on how you set your own personal shepard, Shepard could have powers to rival Jack's, if not stronger. This is why I don't like fights involving Shepard, as there are a bajillion different Shepards running around


Indeed. I've been generous in assuming we're talking about a soldier Shepard. If we're talking about a biotic one, then he could easily just pick Jack up and toss him around like a ragdoll. And yes, he can do that in a line of sight, and yes, he can do it about as quick as a snap of the finger. He has so many more options.

#47 force_echo

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:55 PM

Indeed. I've been generous in assuming we're talking about a soldier Shepard. If we're talking about a biotic one, then he could easily just pick Jack up and toss him around like a ragdoll. And yes, he can do that in a line of sight, and yes, he can do it about as quick as a snap of the finger. He has so many more options.

And Jack can't with Telekinesis?

#48 force_echo

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 01:02 PM

Guess what? Shepard isn't a normal human either, HIS armor and shields can withstand a lot of damage. Plasma is NOT fire, and you saying that it is has ruined your credibility as far as I'm concerned. You're talking about the difference between 750 degrees Celsius and ~28,000 kelvin, or 27726.85 degree Celsius (using lightning as a real-life example for the moment). That's a LOT of finger-snapping Ryan would have to do...

And you know how many times Shepard can shoot Ryan in 3 seconds with his reaction time? A lot.

Sorry, misinterpretation on my part, fire is not plasma, you're right, but then again, plasma dosen't even have to be hot (hell we made plasma in physics class by microwaving various gasses, did it burn 27726.85 degrees celsius? Hell no), and if the fire burns hot enough it can ionize the gas, effictively becoming plasma. Lightning is not plasma, and that has ruined your credibility as far as I'm concerned, lightning is, by definition, an atmospheric discharge of electricity. Electricity =/= plasma, plasma is ionized gas, electricity is purely the movement of electrons.

#49 force_echo

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 01:05 PM

EDIT

#50 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 01:32 PM

Ho hum:

Is Lightning an example of Plasma?

Look to the right and read the inside box there.

Oh and Echo: Lightning travels through ionized gas, which is plasma.

And since when did this become a debate about Jack versus Shepard? I thought it was Jack versus John.

#51 force_echo

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 01:43 PM

Well yeah, lightning travels through plasma obviously, it would have to, but it itself is not plasma.

#52 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 01:45 PM

"Lightning is an example of plasma present at Earth's surface."

From my link.

#53 force_echo

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 03:10 PM

"Lightning is an example of plasma present at Earth's surface."

From my link.

"lightning is an atmospheric discharge of electricity." from Wikipedia on lightning. What the quote above means is, that lightning forms plasma at Earth's surface, with temperatures hotter than the surface of the sun, it would have the ionize the gasses in its wake, but this is super high grade plasma, with some the highest electron saturations present on Earth, I highly doubt that ME weapons can reproduce its effect.

The point Redfeild is trying to get off is ridiculous in its own right. You cannot tell me that flames of at least 2,250 degrees Celsius on Shepard's face would not at least break his aim. Thats complete bullshit.

Either way the point is moot, I'd love to hear how Shepard would manage to get out of being frozen solid by Freeze Blast. Or how he'd manage to avoid being flung into a tree using telekinesis. Hell, I'd love to see how Shepard would even harm Ryan, the huge amounts of Adam in his body instantly replace a dead cell with a new and improved stem version, Shepard is essentially fighting a weaker version of Doomsday. Even up close, Ryan's super strength would dehabilitate Shepard, Ryan had the gross musculature of a fit 19 year old when he was 1 years old.

#54 Jason Redfield

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 03:22 PM

The point Redfeild is trying to get off is ridiculous in its own right. You cannot tell me that flames of at least 2,250 degrees Celsius on Shepard's face would not at least break his aim. Thats complete bullshit.

No, you said 750 degrees. To get 2,250 degrees, Jack would have to go for multiple finger snaps. And as I've said, that would be difficult considering several factors: Shepard using cover (which he does a LOT), Shepard's superior reaction time, the range on Shepard's weapons, and Shepard's biotics.

Either way the point is moot, I'd love to hear how Shepard would manage to get out of being frozen solid by Freeze Blast. Or how he'd manage to avoid being flung into a tree using telekinesis. Hell, I'd love to see how Shepard would even harm Ryan, the huge amounts of Adam in his body instantly replace a dead cell with a new and improved stem version, Shepard is essentially fighting a weaker version of Doomsday. Even up close, Ryan's super strength would dehabilitate Shepard, Ryan had the gross musculature of a fit 19 year old when he was 1 years old.

*sigh* Freeze blast has its Mass Effect equivalent in Cryo Blast, except with these using "a mass of super-cooled subatomic particles capable of snap-freezing targets within a certain radius". Sounds about the same, if not more dangerous, than freeze blast. Mass Effect suits protect at least partially against extremes in the low temperature range, as well.

As for the telekinesis, Shepard has that too. And his is powerful enough to lift fully-armored Krogan and various heavy debris high into the air. And as I've said before, Shepard's reaction time and sensors should allow him to get the drop on Jack, allowing him to use his own TK first. In addition, the suit/barrier help mitigate physics damage (including the biotic equivalent of telekinesis).

Oh, so Ryan has a healing factor? That's all well and good, but Shepard has a kinetic barrier, an armored hardsuit, skin that is the equivalent to Kevlar, and nigh-unbreakable bones. And those last two, guess what? They inject medi-gel at the first sign of trauma, thus serving as a healing factor of his own.

And Ryan's strength will mean jack shit to Shepard. The guy has that too -- enhanced muscles, not to mention servos in his hardsuit see to that. This allows him to toss random pieces of debris as if it's a menial task. In addition, he can take fully armored Krogan or even a Yagh in melee. Both of those are extremely powerful creatures that typically require heavy weapons to take down.

Basically, this is what I'm saying: Shepard has or at least has FACED opponents with powers comparable to Ryan's. So I think it's fair to put them at equal standing on that basis. However, Shepard has his armor, shield, sensors, and advanced reaction time. Those are the factors that put him on top in my mind.

#55 force_echo

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 03:25 PM

Basically, this is what I'm saying: Shepard has or at least has FACED opponents with powers comparable to Ryan's. So I think it's fair to put them at equal standing on that basis. However, Shepard has his armor, shield, sensors, and advanced reaction time. Those are the factors that put him on top in my mind.

Eh, the statements' agreeable.

#56 Opalord

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 03:30 PM

To say Jack could beat Shepard, in my mind, is saying that Big daddies, creatures that give Jack major problems, are equivalent to the tough guys in bioshock, like say, a geth Prime or something

#57 Skirmisher

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 06:11 PM

Um... Plasma is energized fire.

So yeah... it's Above "regular" Fire...

#58 force_echo

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 06:33 PM

Um... Plasma is energized fire.

So yeah... it's Above "regular" Fire...

Yeah, that point was adressed like 5 posts ago, a little slow there.

#59 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 11:42 AM

Um... Plasma is energized fire.

So yeah... it's Above "regular" Fire...



GRAPE PLASMA!

#60 sirmethos

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 12:53 PM

Um... Plasma is energized fire.

So yeah... it's Above "regular" Fire...



...

no, plasma is Not "energized fire" <.<, Plasma is ionized Gas.

One way of ionizing gas is by increasing the heat.


i saw a bunch of people linking to wikipedia while talking about what plasma is, but apparently people prefer to just take out the examples that support their argument, instead of simply going with the basic explanation of plasma: "In physics and chemistry, plasma is a substance similar to gas in which a certain portion of the particles are ionized. The basic premise is that heating a gas dissociates its molecular bonds, rendering it into its constituent atoms. Further heating leads to ionization (a loss of electrons), turning it into a plasma: containing charged particles, positive ions and negative electrons."




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