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#41 Dreadlock

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 04:35 PM

What makes you think it would be dented? The only way Thor can effect Primary Adamantium is with a Thorforce blow (but even then it's extremely difficult). Otherwise, it should stay intact with no damage whatsoever.

That cylinder he "dented" is questionable. I've heard numerous times from people who know comics WAY better than me that any Adamantium that's been effected or damaged in the past has been revealed to be Secondary Adamantium (or have some kind of underlying defect) just like every time Darkseid gets his ass kicked, they usually reveal it to be a clone or whatever.

#42 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 09:18 PM

What makes you think it would be dented? The only way Thor can effect Primary Adamantium is with a Thorforce blow (but even then it's extremely difficult). Otherwise, it should stay intact with no damage whatsoever.

That cylinder he "dented" is questionable. I've heard numerous times from people who know comics WAY better than me that any Adamantium that's been effected or damaged in the past has been revealed to be Secondary Adamantium (or have some kind of underlying defect) just like every time Darkseid gets his ass kicked, they usually reveal it to be a clone or whatever.

He dented Captain America's shield. Which is stronger and harder than the metal that composes Logan's skeleton. He can and will most definitely dent it, even so more.

#43 Dreadlock

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 11:59 PM

There is probably a reason he was able to dent it. You have to really look deeper into the story.

Here's what I found about Thor's hammer:

Mjolnir can be used both offensively and defensively.

Described as impacting with sufficient force to "destroy mountains,"[36] with only primary adamantium proving too impervious.[37] Other offensive capabilities include creating vortices and forcefields (capable of containing an explosion that could potentially destroy a galaxy);[38] emitting mystical blasts of energy; controlling electromagnetism; molecular manipulation;[39] and generating the Geo-Blast (an energy wave that taps a planet's gravitational force),[40] Anti-Force (energy created to counter-act another force),[41] the thermo-blast which can even challenge such beings as Ego the living planet,[42] and god Blast (a blast that taps into Thor's life force).[43] The hammer can travel through planets to return to Thor(Thor Vol 2 #4).


I think Logan's adamantium would be fine. His brains would undoubtedly be scrambled, but the metal in his skull would keep his head intact.

I'd like to see what would happen if a basic (non-Thorforce) Thor swung his hammer with a full strength swing and clocked a sundipped Superman right on the forehead. I wonder what would happen?

#44 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 12:08 AM

There is probably a reason he was able to dent it. You have to really look deeper into the story.

Here's what I found about Thor's hammer:



I think Logan's adamantium would be fine. His brains would undoubtedly be scrambled, but the metal in his head would keep his head intact.

I'd like to see what would happen if a basic (non-Thorforce) Thor swung his hammer with a full strength swing and clocked a sundipped Superman right on the forehead. I wonder what would happen?

No... he dented Cap's shield because he was pissed. For retribution, he hammered it back into shape. Being able to dent it and then hammer ti back into shape? We know that Cap's shield is stronger than Primary Adamantium. There is that one time, Thor threw Hulk into an Adamantium statue and broke it. Thor broke that by using Hulk's body. Hammer's tougher than Hulk. Think about that with the strength behind the blow that threw Hulk and broke a statue of adamantium.

Honestly, I do think Thor can dent the crap out of Logan's primary adamantium.


Superman would feel it. Its a magical hammer and he's weak to magic. It will hurt a lot.

#45 Dreadlock

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 12:23 AM

That was with an Odinforce blow. Without Odinforce/Thorforce he wouldn't have been able to do it. Same with Logan's skull. Primary Adamantium doesn't just break/dent/bend. I'd be willing to bet that if you took a piece of primary adamantium and put Pre-Crisis sundipped Superman on one side, Suberboy-Prime on another, and World Breaker Hulk on the other and told them to work together to break it....it wouldn't break.



I blame the writers. Those idiots couldn't keep a good thing going if they tried. They introduce something that's indestructible, and then destroy it. But I guess you could say they made up for it by retconing things and saying it was all Secondary Adamantium.

Anyway, yeah, I know Cap's Shield (Proto-Adamantium) is like the most indestructible thing there is. It's one badass piece of metal. It doesn't even need mystic forces to help it out. :)

#46 Dreadlock

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 03:17 AM

How come Xavier didn't, hasn't, or doesn't ever (as far as I know) shut down the Hulk whenever he goes on a rampage? Especially WWH?


I wonder if an Odinforce blow from Thor's hammer would be enough to kill World Breaker Hulk for good if it hit him right on the forehead? Like, if Thor's only goal was to put as much strength & umph behind the the blow as possible (without erasing him or willing him dead or whatever) could WBH survive a blow of that magnitude?

#47 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 04:06 AM

That was with an Odinforce blow. Without Odinforce/Thorforce he wouldn't have been able to do it. Same with Logan's skull. Primary Adamantium doesn't just break/dent/bend. I'd be willing to bet that if you took a piece of primary adamantium and put Pre-Crisis sundipped Superman on one side, Suberboy-Prime on another, and World Breaker Hulk on the other and told them to work together to break it....it wouldn't break.



I blame the writers. Those idiots couldn't keep a good thing going if they tried. They introduce something that's indestructible, and then destroy it. But I guess you could say they made up for it by retconing things and saying it was all Secondary Adamantium.

Anyway, yeah, I know Cap's Shield (Proto-Adamantium) is like the most indestructible thing there is. It's one badass piece of metal. It doesn't even need mystic forces to help it out. B)

I don't recall Thor being Odinforce when he dented the shield. I think it was Classic Thor. -.-

Only thing he did to the shield while he had the Odinforce was this:

"While only barely tapping into the limitless power of his vast magical power, Thor was capable of easily disintegrating Captain America’s shield with simply a look"

So, yeah, he dented the hell out of Cap's shield with just the hammer without the Odinforce.

#48 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 04:09 AM

How come Xavier didn't, hasn't, or doesn't ever (as far as I know) shut down the Hulk whenever he goes on a rampage? Especially WWH?


I wonder if an Odinforce blow from Thor's hammer would be enough to kill World Breaker Hulk for good if it hit him right on the forehead? Like, if Thor's only goal was to put as much strength & umph behind the the blow as possible (without erasing him or willing him dead or whatever) could WBH survive a blow of that magnitude?

He tried to enter WWH's mind. He couldn't, it was too much for him and he only got glimpses of what happened on Sakaar. Not to mention the fact that the numerous amounts of personalities Banner's got, this provides a form of mental defense plus Hulk's rage...

He probably would survive. He would have a busted up head but then he could regenerate from this.

#49 Omega11

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 10:10 AM

As far as Thor denting adamantium goes, I was under the impression that when he dented Cap's shield with Mjolnir, he had the Odin-Force, but I could be wrong.

I'd like to see what would happen if a basic (non-Thorforce) Thor swung his hammer with a full strength swing and clocked a sundipped Superman right on the forehead. I wonder what would happen?


Not much.

I mean, Superman would be missing his brains, but I struggle to find evidence that he had any to begin with.

How come Xavier didn't, hasn't, or doesn't ever (as far as I know) shut down the Hulk whenever he goes on a rampage? Especially WWH?


They usually feed us the plot device of Hulk being immune to telepathy for various reasons.

I wonder if an Odinforce blow from Thor's hammer would be enough to kill World Breaker Hulk for good if it hit him right on the forehead? Like, if Thor's only goal was to put as much strength & umph behind the the blow as possible (without erasing him or willing him dead or whatever) could WBH survive a blow of that magnitude?


Well that depends, can Hulk survive without a head?

Odin-Force Thor decapitated the Destroyer with a hammer throw. You know, that thing that Odin made to fight Celestials.

Goodbye Hulk.

#50 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 10:49 AM

Seriously, Thor did not have the Odinforce when he dented Cap's shield. -.- If he did, he would have just disintergrated it rather than use the hammer, like shown in that one post of mine on this thread, aboutt wo posts back.

Think about it, he bended it back into shape. If he had the Odinforce, all he would had to do was will it and it would have been as good as new.

#51 Artemis Entreri

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 01:12 PM

As far as Thor denting adamantium goes, I was under the impression that when he dented Cap's shield with Mjolnir, he had the Odin-Force, but I could be wrong.



Not much.

I mean, Superman would be missing his brains, but I struggle to find evidence that he had any to begin with.



They usually feed us the plot device of Hulk being immune to telepathy for various reasons.



Well that depends, can Hulk survive without a head?

Odin-Force Thor decapitated the Destroyer with a hammer throw. You know, that thing that Odin made to fight Celestials.


Goodbye Hulk.



Are you speaking of the same Destroyer that regular Savage Hulks beats inbetween wrecking small desserted towns? Ha!!
Or the same Hulk Odin deemed the God of Strength when he beat Thor? The same Hulk that tanked Gladiators star shattering heat ray.... The same Hulk that Broke Celestial chains.... nd the Same Hulk that Knocked Thanos out with one punch win Hulk was severley burned and disfigured. The Hulk that as Professor Hulk was reduce tobones by Vector and still knockd Vector out.... Only t heal within seconds...?

Lastly, the same Hulk that can rengerate and become more durable after every attack on him.....including Iceman's absolute zero attack? Thor would fail like the others!

#52 Dreadlock

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 03:56 PM

No, when Thor dented Cap's Shield, he did so with an Odinforce empowered blow (and even then, it only dented it). Without the Odinforce, even Primary Adamantium is too invulnerable for Classic Thor. This is fact.




Adamantium > Classic Thor:

Mjolnir can be used both offensively and defensively.

Described as impacting with sufficient force to "destroy mountains,"[36] with only primary adamantium proving too impervious.[37] Other offensive capabilities include creating vortices and forcefields (capable of containing an explosion that could potentially destroy a galaxy);[38] emitting mystical blasts of energy; controlling electromagnetism; molecular manipulation;[39] and generating the Geo-Blast (an energy wave that taps a planet's gravitational force),[40] Anti-Force (energy created to counter-act another force),[41] the thermo-blast which can even challenge such beings as Ego the living planet,[42] and god Blast (a blast that taps into Thor's life force).[43] The hammer can travel through planets to return to Thor(Thor Vol 2 #4).





Odinforce blow:

During the Standoff crossover between Thor, Iron Man and The Avengers, the shield was dented as a result of an enraged Thor striking it with an Odinforce-empowered blow. After the battle was ended Thor repaired it before ending his membership with the Avengers.



#53 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 03:49 AM

No, when Thor dented Cap's Shield, he did so with an Odinforce empowered blow (and even then, it only dented it). Without the Odinforce, even Primary Adamantium is too invulnerable for Classic Thor. This is fact.




Adamantium > Classic Thor:





Odinforce blow:

I concede. And here, to absolve any possible future arguments of this particular case:

This is King Thor...

EDIT: Now the first one deleted itself... WTF.

EDIT: The second picture that shows the dent deleted itself somehow... Damn you Photobucket.

http://www.leadersla...gersv3-063.html

On another note, the hammer's able to rearrange things on the molecular scale... -.-

#54 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 03:58 AM

No, when Thor dented Cap's Shield, he did so with an Odinforce empowered blow (and even then, it only dented it). Without the Odinforce, even Primary Adamantium is too invulnerable for Classic Thor. This is fact.




Adamantium > Classic Thor:





Odinforce blow:

Double post, my bad. -.-

#55 Omega11

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 12:03 PM

Are you speaking of the same Destroyer that regular Savage Hulks beats inbetween wrecking small desserted towns? Ha!!


Proof? From what I hear, the only encounter between them had Hulk losing.

Thor would fail like the others!


The same Thor who completely took over a planet the Hulk was inhabiting?

If you're seriously saying that Hulk could beat Odin-Force Thor, then there's nothing more I can say.

#56 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 05:21 AM

I've always wondered.

If the Illuminati had the Infinity Gems, how come didn't they use them against World War Hulk as it would most certainly have warranted the use of them? Professor X might have been able to penetrate Hulk's mind with the aid of the Mind Gem, or Mister Fantastic could have over powered Hulk with the Power Gem, or Tony could have just dumped Hulk into the Sun via the Reality Gem, or Dr. Strange could have easily reverted Hulk back into Banner with the help of the Soul Gem...

And don't tell me they didn't have time to get to them. Hulk gave everyone at least 24 hours... they had plenty of time to come up with the idea of using the gems... plus, these are smart people... Professor Charles Xavier, Tony Stark, Reed Richards, and Dr. Stephen Strange. -.-

#57 Omega11

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 11:24 AM

I've always wondered.

If the Illuminati had the Infinity Gems, how come didn't they use them against World War Hulk as it would most certainly have warranted the use of them? Professor X might have been able to penetrate Hulk's mind with the aid of the Mind Gem, or Mister Fantastic could have over powered Hulk with the Power Gem, or Tony could have just dumped Hulk into the Sun via the Reality Gem, or Dr. Strange could have easily reverted Hulk back into Banner with the help of the Soul Gem...

And don't tell me they didn't have time to get to them. Hulk gave everyone at least 24 hours... they had plenty of time to come up with the idea of using the gems... plus, these are smart people... Professor Charles Xavier, Tony Stark, Reed Richards, and Dr. Stephen Strange. -.-


Well first of all, they swore never to use them, ever.

Secondly, they probably felt a little guilty about sending Hulk away to begin with, so they weren't going to break their vow and expose the fact that they possess the gems just to deal with something they felt they might have had coming.

Thirdly, even if they had used/tried to use/wanted to use the gems, they wouldn't necessarily have helped. Namor probably couldn't do too much with the Time Gem(him not being the brightest bulb in the batch), even if he had wanted to stop Hulk, and Tony probably couldn't do much with the Reality Gem since that takes a very specific kind of person, not everyone(even smart guys) can just make it work. Reed would probably have a better chance than Tony for that. And Professor Xavier didn't have the 24 hours to prepare, he just had Hulk knocking on his door minutes after seeing it on TV. And Doctor Strange would have played the same card he already did in that storyline, he wouldn't want to use them Soul Gem to take Banner's soul, as that might doom his own. And obviously, Black Bolt didn't have 24 hours either, Hulk just landed and started fighting, plus BB was pretty confident he could take him down himself, and I'm not sure how much use he could get out of the Space Gem anyway.

Fourthly, most of them were fairly confident they could stop Hulk with what resources they already had, and thus wouldn't need to resort to using the Gems.

And lastly, pure economics. If your hugely advertized blockbuster crossover event ends with the titular character being defeated/imprisioned/killed/banished in the first issue, and the entire storyline ended, it's not good for business.

#58 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 11:32 AM

I have a question, who would win if Iron Fist fought Cable? Current, "The Immortal Iron Fist" vs Cable just before he died?

#59 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 01:04 PM

Well first of all, they swore never to use them, ever.

Secondly, they probably felt a little guilty about sending Hulk away to begin with, so they weren't going to break their vow and expose the fact that they possess the gems just to deal with something they felt they might have had coming.

Thirdly, even if they had used/tried to use/wanted to use the gems, they wouldn't necessarily have helped. Namor probably couldn't do too much with the Time Gem(him not being the brightest bulb in the batch), even if he had wanted to stop Hulk, and Tony probably couldn't do much with the Reality Gem since that takes a very specific kind of person, not everyone(even smart guys) can just make it work. Reed would probably have a better chance than Tony for that. And Professor Xavier didn't have the 24 hours to prepare, he just had Hulk knocking on his door minutes after seeing it on TV. And Doctor Strange would have played the same card he already did in that storyline, he wouldn't want to use them Soul Gem to take Banner's soul, as that might doom his own. And obviously, Black Bolt didn't have 24 hours either, Hulk just landed and started fighting, plus BB was pretty confident he could take him down himself, and I'm not sure how much use he could get out of the Space Gem anyway.

Fourthly, most of them were fairly confident they could stop Hulk with what resources they already had, and thus wouldn't need to resort to using the Gems.

And lastly, pure economics. If your hugely advertized blockbuster crossover event ends with the titular character being defeated/imprisioned/killed/banished in the first issue, and the entire storyline ended, it's not good for business.

I know they swore to never use it but you see, I thought a circumstance like Hulk's return and the dire circumstances behind such it would warrant them the right to use them, even if they felt guilty, they could have used them to subdued him and the Warbound. But I understand.

Tony's out because he can't use it, not effectively if he could use it, and Xavier was caught off guard and didn't have time, so these two are out. I didn't include Namor because he wasn't involved in the conflict and that Black Bolt was a Skrull so obviously it wouldn't know where the Space Gem was, or did it? But that's a different topic. On another note, the Soul Gem does have the ability to revert things to their natural state along with the taking of souls. I was referring to this part, not the soul taking. And from the sound of things, Strange could use the Soul Gem effectively so... he could have single handily defeated Hulk then by reverting him to Banner, which is his natural state, that is if he and the others used the gems.

Yeah, but they should have knew better, right?

Yeah, but in a world of logic, this would make more sense... but the moolah takes precedence, unfortunately.

#60 Dreadlock

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 03:38 AM

1) How does the Crimson Gem of Cyttock (Sp?) stack up against the Infinity Gauntlet Gems? (As far as, are each of the individual gems themselves more powerful that the Cyttock gem? Or is it an equal with those gems?)

2) This is probably a silly question but I just wanted to make sure... I assume anyone in control of the Infinity Gauntlet would effortlessly be able to stop (even the absolute most powerful version of) The Juggernaut in his tracks, right? Completely hault him where he stands, even from a full-on run?

3) If the Crimson Gem makes it impossible for anything to hault the Juggernaut once he is in motion, how does he slow himself down?




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