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Skirmisher vs. Rakai' Thwei


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#41 treacherous

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 12:24 PM

Okay to play Devil's Advocate, come out of your basic knowledge and Warhammer fanboy world for a second and think about the opponents at hand. You have to think about the skill of the individuals I've presented. Rakai's Yautja is far superior than your average Yautja. If you haven't read any of his matches, you really can't speak on behalf of this Yautja. Think of it like this. In Marvel Comic's Ultimates, Goliath (Hank Pym) was waaaay more powerful than Captain America. But, when it came down to the two fighting after Hank beat up the Wasp. Experience and skill led Captain America to hand Goliath his a$$. Rakai is no joke in battle. This is due to his creator more than anything. Rakai has vast more experience in battle than the Necron Lord here. 3 RP's versus dozens of CBUB match ups (Nearly flawless record) and dozens of RP's (Also near flawless record).

We're not talking just any Necron Lord against just any Pred. We're talking a (sorry Skirm) lightly experienced Necron versus a seasoned battle hardened veteran. Skill and Experience count for a lot in any fight. This isn't about generic characters. These guys have history. Rakai has beaten Jedi, Sith...he has the Soul Calibur. The Pred can fight his a$$ off. Look at his success rate. Don't think in generics. Think about the characters presented.

#42 boston_celtics

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 01:46 PM

Experience or no experience, it is irrelevant. The Predator has NOTHING in its arsenal that can defeat Skirmisher.

Soul Calibur? I see no reason why this is more powerful than a Force Weapon.

Anyway, I checked Skirmisher's Lord's stats. Apparently, he has a Phase Shifter. That means 90% of Rakai's weapons are useless.

He has a Chronometron, which nullifies the speed advantage of the Predator.

He has a Warcythe, which the can cut through Infantry Bunkers.

And he has a Gauss Cannon, which can tear apart power armor.

Rakai will try and get in close, which spells doom. If he goes for ranged attacks, its called teleport.

Victories against Jedi and Sith are... well... Necron Lords could probably handle them, as well, so not really that tangible a feat.

Besides, if we went by the win/loss statistics, then Rakai lost to the Lizard and Sabertooth, so there.

Also, that thing with Giant Man and Captain America. Captain America floored the Hulk, whilst Giant Man couldn't do squat. I think Cap's victory has a little more to do with Pym's ignorance and the supersoldier serum.

#43 treacherous

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 03:04 PM

Besides, if we went by the win/loss statistics, then Rakai lost to the Lizard and Sabertooth, so there.

Really Boston? Really? The win/loss ratio alone offsets both these matches. Besides I remember the Sabertooth match. Foulplay on that one. Multi-accounting. Once again, you had to have read the matches. I remember a lot of them.

Also, that thing with Giant Man and Captain America. Captain America floored the Hulk, whilst Giant Man couldn't do squat. I think Cap's victory has a little more to do with Pym's ignorance and the supersoldier serum.

Hank Pym ignorant?? An idiot maybe, but not ignorant at all. He's a genius. Not only that, but you still are enforcing my theory. Captain America floored the Hulk. Experience and skill floored the Hulk. Do you get it yet? You can load up anybody with a ton of great weapons, but skill is always an advantage. Cap = skill and experience. Rakai = skill and experience.


Rakai's Pred has the skill advantage. Think Batman...sums it up. Regardless, again I'm playing devil's advocate because I know Rakai's character and I don't think you guys are taking into consideration his background. I may be wrong and he may be fighting a completely losing battle, but I don't think so at all.

In my opinion, this may be like putting a heavily armed cop against lightly armed British SAS. I lean towards SAS.

#44 RakaiThwei

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 04:00 PM

Let me say this about Rakai'Thwei and his background-- he happens to be the son of Dachande aka Broken Tusk, the protagonist Predator in the original Alien vs Predator comics and novels. And he was one of the most skilled Predators, not to mention during his childhood, Rakai was taught by Dachande until later on he was taught by another mentor who had trained alongside Dachande. Over the years, Rakai'Thwei began hunting Xenomorphs and humans, but he began to learn some skills from his human prey such as martial arts, learning such fighting styles as Tang Soo Do, Kyokushin Karate, and Boxing. So he knows a total of four different fighting styles if you count his native style of Jehdin. And to top it off, he has had centuries to master each style, and has even acquired the knowledge and usage of Qi. He can't do Hadoukens or Kamehameha's, nothing that outlandish but he knows how to utilize his inner energy to enhance his physical attributes such as Iron Palm, Iron Body, and spiritual healing. He may even know Dim Mak, otherwise known as the Deathtouch.

Besides, if we went by the win/loss statistics, then Rakai lost to the Lizard and Sabertooth, so there


When I am debating Boston, and I think Treacherous is also using the same source as I am but I am speaking from my knowledge of the roleplaying version of Rakai'Thwei. The CBUB version of the character is an entirely different version.

What we have here is a young but experienced, and in peak conditioning Predator warrior who is able to lift twenty tons, has four fighting styles underneath his belt, is armored and armed with advanced weaponry, and is not your average Predator. As Treacherous said, think Batman but... I say, think Rakai'Thwei as the Batman and Riki-Oh of the Predator race.

Granted, I know not much of Warhammer since I didn't get into it despite how people try to get me into the game but... hey, I'm speaking on behalf of my character.

-Rakai'Thwei

#45 treacherous

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 04:28 PM

From what I can tell of these two and their back history, I would compare this fight to ex-special forces Major Alan "Dutch" Schaefer (Predator 1) vs. a T-800. The Terminator robot is souless, ruthless, technologically superior in every way and extremely effective, however Dutch is craftier, more skilled and deadly in his own right. Although the T-800 is physically dominating, based solely on the background of the two competitors involved I'd lean towards Dutch in an extremely close battle.

You guys are focusing on generics and not on the characters involved.

#46 boston_celtics

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 04:55 PM

As I recall, there was multiaccounting on every match on the old CBUB. Rakai's loss to Sabertooth thus becomes no more valid than his victories against someone or other? Get my point? They are both valid, from a pure CBUB canon standpoint.

And Rakai himself stated this is the RP version.

That analogy isn't quite right. What you don't understand is the VAST difference between Predator universe and 40K universe. Whereas the Predator hunts humans, xenos and such, Necrons fight Eldar, Tau, Space Marines, and Chaos Space Marines.

Where the Predator can blow holes into your body with a plasma gun, Necrons can blow holes into tanks (Imperium Tanks, mind you) with gauss weapons.

Where Predators can get killed by blades, bullets, and impalement, Necrons do not die against bolters, lasguns, plasma rifles, and Force Weapons.

The proper analogy would be a highly-trained Special Forces operatives, armed with a knife... against a tank.

#47 treacherous

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 05:12 PM

The proper analogy would be a highly-trained Special Forces operatives, armed with a knife... against a tank.





Men have conquered tanks with less.

Besides, Devil's Advocate: In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with for the sake of argument. This process can also be used to test the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure.

But forget that, let's add up stats shall we?

Rakai Skills and stats
Hand to hand + 100
Acrobatics + 100
Languages + 71
Melee Weapons + 100
Ranged Weapons + 100
Climbing + 90
Athletics + 100
Hand to hand Evade + 87
Melee Weapon Evade + 87
Ranged Weapons Evade + 79
Mimicry + 94
Survival + 85
First Aid + 78
Expert + 76
Weaponsmith + 95
Paramedic + 77
Piloting + 99
Contortionist + 55
Surveillance + 46
Leadership + 100
Tracking + 43
Mechanics + 86
Electronics + 37
Tactics + 50
Demolition/Disposal + 41
High Tension + 50
Explosive Anger + 50
Engineer: Aerospace + 32
Zero-Gravity Maneuvering + 23
Glory Strike + 100
Piercing Strike + 100
Fatal Claw + 100
Tiger Jackhammer Fist + 100
Mad Rush + 30
So Ki Dan + 100
Shinkuu So Ki Dan + 21
Explosives + 78
Iron Body + 53
Tiger Bash + 13
Breaking Block + 50
Chi + 100
Denjin Plasma Shot + 92
Bomb Punch +100
Trophy Kill +100

and Weapons
Fighting Style: Jehdin, Tang Soo Do (Learned from various masters), Kyokushin Karate, Boxing
Weapons: Wristblades, Scattergun, Burner, Shoulder Cannon, Combi-Staff, Netgun, Dartgun, Naginata, Smart Disk, Wrist Flatchette, Dlex Shurikens, Sonic Mines, Pulse Mines, Plasma Mines, Remote Bombs, Maul Blade, Custom Built Plasma Rifle, Custom Built Dlex Katana, Firkrann Lighsabre, Sygil Lightsabre, Dragite Lightsabre, Solari Lightsabre.

vs.

Skir'Mish'Ra skills and stats
WS: 45, BS: 45, S: 55, T: 55, A: 45
Wounds: 50, Regen: 2-10 per "Round"
Armour: 10 from natural armour + 6 from being Phased (Phased cannot be negated)

and Weapons
Warscythe, Fractal Edged Blade: Melee, 12-30 damage, Impact, -8 to armour saves (x2 against Vehicles)
Warscythe, Gauss Blaster: Ranged, 10-50 damage, Energy, -6 to armour saves (10% chance for x2 damage)
Fists, punching the crap out'a ya: Melee, 5-9 damage, Energy, -6 to armour saves (Armour saves are doubled)

I don't know. My devil is still advocating me to lean towards Rakai.

#48 Skirmisher

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 07:37 PM

True I could elaborate on actual Skills and Talents known by the Necron... I'll get back to you on that.

As for Experience... well, yes, Rakai has used his character for several years now, whereas my character has only been in existence for the last few months (Note however that all Necron are probably 60,000,000+ years old)

#49 treacherous

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 08:08 PM

That's a lot of years. How much of that lifespan is actual active duty combat?

#50 Skirmisher

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 08:42 PM

That's a lot of years. How much of that lifespan is actual active duty combat?

Unknown...

Unknown Time: "The C'tan known as the Deceiver tricks the Necrontyr with the promise of immortality and the C'tan turn all living Necrontyr into Necrons, feasting upon their souls. "

Unknown Time: "The God War begins. The Old Ones are forced to retreat into besieged bastions. The C'tan and their servants, the Necrons, dominate the Galaxy. The young races are treated like cattle by their new terrifying masters, the C'tan. Life begins to grow more and more scarce in the galaxy. The C'tan, manipulated by the Deceiver, begin to slaughter and to consume each other. The desperate Old Ones influence many warlike young races like the Eldar, fostering their ability of using the energies of the Warp, the Achilles' heel of the C'tan. "

Unknown Time: "Faced with only 4 surviving C'tan (Nightbringer, Deceiver, Void Dragon, and Outsider) the young races are able to strike back, re-claiming the galaxy. The C'tan, united since millions of years, begin their work intended to ward the material universe from the Warp dimension forever."

~60 million years BC: "The Pandora's box of Warp-magic opens. Several predatory Warp-entities appear, hunting and consuming Psykers. Trying to defend their last remaining strongholds from destruction the Old Ones create the Krork (Orks) and the Jokaero, but it is simply too little, too late. First among the warp-denizens, the Enslavers appear in a locust-like fashion."

~60 million years BC: "Faced with a rapidly diminishing food-supply because of the Enslavers and the counter-offensives of the young races, the C'tan entomb themselves in 4 different planets, who are devoid of all life to avoid the appearance of the Enslavers. Other planets also harbor their Necron armies. Their plan is re-appear when the galaxy is full of life again to 'harvest it' anew."


Here's the Ancient History of 40K, I don't know how long the Necrons were fighting, but it may have been a Million years before they went into hibernation as noted by the bolded segment.


The problem though is that each time a Necron "dies" it's memory suffers, so battlefield experience is in Flux.

"Both their minds and their bodies are teleported to the nearest tomb complex where they either remain in storage until repairs are made or a new body is forged. Thus act does, however, come at a cost as each act of transference leads to a decay in the Necron's engrams. As such, those Necrons that have "died" and phased out hundreds of times suffer the most for they become little more than automatons who have lost the memory of the creature that they used to be in life."

However, IIRC Necron Lords and Flayed Ones maintain strong memories, which is why the Lords can lead, and the Flayed ones are crazy...

#51 ricrery

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 09:18 PM

@Treacherous

First off, I have a novel where a Chapter Master enhanced by Warp energies is losing against a Necron Lord, and he requires the help of a Techpriest to kill it. Also, normal Necron warriors are immune to most weapons except the plasma ones which probably far exceed Yautja plasma tech, let alone a Necron Lord. It is irrelevant how powerful this Necron Lord is, he'll still rip Space Marines and maybe even Terminators apart. In fact, the Rakai' Thwei would be destroyed because his weapons would be lucky to phase (no pun intended) the Lord, let alone hurt him.

#52 Skirmisher

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 09:22 PM

Hmm, I was looking online for any Dark Heresy stats for necrons and found some... They are horrifying, but make sense. The only problem I have is that Dark Heresy was made to have Human level PC's, not Space Marines or anything better... They don't even have Basic Orks...

What this means though is some major revisions on the character...

#53 Zreth

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 03:51 AM

Why don't you guys do an RP against each other?

#54 RakaiThwei

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 04:05 AM

You have to consider different styles and different forms of roleplaying.

If you look in the AKUMA tournament, both Scarface Predator and Psylocke vs Dante and the Prince, and Scarface Predator and Psylocke vs Vin and Itachi Uchiha, you would get a rough idea on how I roleplay.

I don't know how Skirmisher roleplays..

-Rakai'Thwei

#55 Skirmisher

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 04:09 AM

I don't know how Skirmisher roleplays..

I hate to say it, but I'm still wearing my Newb boots while RPing.

#56 RakaiThwei

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 05:46 AM

I hate to say it, but I'm still wearing my Newb boots while RPing.


And I have been doing roleplaying for more than a decade.

-Rakai'Thwei

#57 ricrery

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 01:56 AM

Okay to play Devil's Advocate, come out of your basic knowledge and Warhammer fanboy world for a second and think about the opponents at hand. You have to think about the skill of the individuals I've presented. Rakai's Yautja is far superior than your average Yautja. If you haven't read any of his matches, you really can't speak on behalf of this Yautja. Think of it like this. In Marvel Comic's Ultimates, Goliath (Hank Pym) was waaaay more powerful than Captain America. But, when it came down to the two fighting after Hank beat up the Wasp. Experience and skill led Captain America to hand Goliath his a$$. Rakai is no joke in battle. This is due to his creator more than anything. Rakai has vast more experience in battle than the Necron Lord here. 3 RP's versus dozens of CBUB match ups (Nearly flawless record) and dozens of RP's (Also near flawless record).

We're not talking just any Necron Lord against just any Pred. We're talking a (sorry Skirm) lightly experienced Necron versus a seasoned battle hardened veteran. Skill and Experience count for a lot in any fight. This isn't about generic characters. These guys have history. Rakai has beaten Jedi, Sith...he has the Soul Calibur. The Pred can fight his a$$ off. Look at his success rate. Don't think in generics. Think about the characters presented.



There was a Darth Vader vs Necron Lord debate long ago, and the Necron Lord won, very easily. What chance do Rakai' Thwei have? Hell, Necron Lords are next to invincible except for a minor part which I don't understand anyways.




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