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Coalition Of Mankind


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#61 MarvelFan15

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 04:37 AM

Very, very close. But they really shouldn't be added.


Perhaps leaving them out wouldn't be such a bad idea?

EDIT: Nevermind. Didn't see the last part.

#62 ricrery

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 04:52 AM

Yes. Considering the Xenos are in cold water right now. Give them the Culture and deal.

#63 Skirmisher

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 05:11 AM

Yes. Considering the Xenos are in cold water right now. Give them the Culture and deal.

The Culture generally consider themselves "Human"

Their closest equivalent would be the Federation... if it was allowed to evolve naturally for a couple millenia with Logic and Technology, and not zany script writers...

#64 ricrery

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 05:41 AM

It states the Culture novels take place back to 1300 A.D. so maybe they aren't human.

#65 Skirmisher

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 05:57 AM

"Techniques in genetics have advanced in the Culture to the point where bodies can be freed from built-in limitations. Citizens of the Culture refer to a 'normal' human as 'human-basic' and the vast majority opt for significant enhancements"

#66 ricrery

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 06:11 AM

Maybe we should add the Culture as Xemon as the ultimate power that each group has to beat.

#67 Skirmisher

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 07:09 AM

Maybe we should add the Culture as Xemon as the ultimate power that each group has to beat.

Xemon, who?

#68 ricrery

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 07:33 AM

Culture = Xeno + Human.

#69 boston_celtics

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 10:36 AM

Xemon, who?


Why can't I help but imagine a Pokemon in the shape of Master Chief + Predator...

#70 Opalord

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 12:59 PM

Orks? orks? now its a fight. How many orks are we adding out of curiosity. Unfortunatley their tech doesn't combine well with other races, because technically most of it shouldn't work. The way the majority of ork tek works is a mek throws a bunch of junk together, and if enough of the orks believe it should work, it does. to quote the codex "Many a tech marine has opened up a shoota only to find it is a metal box with bits of metal in it". the problem with this is while all of the other races are combining tech (or themselves in case of the flood/tyranids/aliens) the orks would have no way o collaborate with their team. also, its very possible the orks would simply ignore the beyonder's warning and fight with everyone anyways. The concept of being punished for fighting is just not one they can wrap their heads around

#71 MarvelFan15

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 03:50 PM

Orks? orks? now its a fight. How many orks are we adding out of curiosity. Unfortunatley their tech doesn't combine well with other races, because technically most of it shouldn't work. The way the majority of ork tek works is a mek throws a bunch of junk together, and if enough of the orks believe it should work, it does. to quote the codex "Many a tech marine has opened up a shoota only to find it is a metal box with bits of metal in it". the problem with this is while all of the other races are combining tech (or themselves in case of the flood/tyranids/aliens) the orks would have no way o collaborate with their team. also, its very possible the orks would simply ignore the beyonder's warning and fight with everyone anyways. The concept of being punished for fighting is just not one they can wrap their heads around


Having realized how powerful Orks could be if their entire race went to war...How many Orks would you have placed here, in order to make it even?

#72 Ruinus

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 05:06 PM

His information gathering capacity also seems to be faster than a Droids, as the esteemed R2-D2 took several seconds to bring up the Death Star schematic and find the tractor beam controls, and a further couple of seconds to find Leia. I believe that I have seen Data read several small font pages of text per second, with full comprehension of all the material in them.


Reading pages and accessing the blueprints for a 160 km wide ship and accessings some basic functions within the ship are entirely different things.

Droids in Star Wars are limited, for the most part, in that people in that Universe don't build droids like Data, they don't build droids to "do everything all the time and be really good at everything" they build tools, droids that can do one thing and only one thing. And even then, they actively go about limiting their droid by wiping their memories which give them emotions/sapience/etc, by placing built in limiters on them, by treating them as tools rather than people.

Edit: Actually here

"Data was built with an ultimate storage capacity of eight hundred quadrillion bits (one hundred petabytes, approximately fifty times the identifiable storage capacity of the Human brain) and a total linear computational speed rated at sixty trillion operations per second."


MedStar II page 183:

"There was a slight but unmistakeable hint of snobbery in I-Five's voce as he answered. "I have a SyntheTech AA-One nanoprocessor, operating at seven petahertz, with a five-exabyte capacity. I wrote the program just after I mentioned it to you. It took me six-point-one nanoseconds to encode the basic algorithm and calculate its functional parameters."

I-5YQ is a normal droid, with his "creative dampers" turned off.

#73 Skirmisher

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 09:09 PM

Hmm, this from the same series that said this about Clone Trooper armour... Armour that was supposed to have more protection in Combat than Stormtrooper armour...

"I don't know why they bother putting armor on em." "Got that right", Zan said, "Stuff won't stop anything stronger than a kids pellet gun"


When you have a million different monkeys authors writing for one universe, strange Facts get added. It's very easily to just pick and chooses what we like out of said "Strange" books (kinda like dealing with a bruised fruit) but how far does it go?

C3PO supposedly has the same brain, but he didn't seem to smart. In fact IIRC it took him a couple seconds (Not Nano Seconds) to go from "I see a Stormtrooper" to "I have to warn the others" just before being blasted on Cloud City.

So does this mean that C3PO has disproved that highly exaggerated statement?

#74 Ruinus

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 10:17 PM

Hmm, this from the same series that said this about Clone Trooper armour... Armour that was supposed to have more protection in Combat than Stormtrooper armour...

"I don't know why they bother putting armor on em." "Got that right", Zan said, "Stuff won't stop anything stronger than a kids pellet gun"


Except that that is disproven wrong by several other sources which state that stormtrooper armor can withstand bullets that are not AP, and can deflect glancing blows. One man saying "Oh this armor is crap" doesn't change that.

C3PO supposedly has the same brain, but he didn't seem to smart. In fact IIRC it took him a couple seconds (Not Nano Seconds) to go from "I see a Stormtrooper" to "I have to warn the others" just before being blasted on Cloud City.


Where does it say they have the same brain?
Why would a droid assembled by a kid on a backwater planet be up to the same specs as a droid built by a galactic company?

EDIT: In fact, C-3P0 has a AA-1 VerboBrain, while the I-5s have the SyntheTech AA-One nanoprocessor. The AA-1 thing seems to be the same thing, but they may not.

So does this mean that C3PO has disproved that highly exaggerated statement?


It's too exact to be exaggerated. It's a droid flat out stating his computer specs. BTW: Their amazing storage and processing power doesn't require they act and move at super speeds, the same could be same for Data. He still talks, moves and acts at the same speeds of humans.

#75 Ruinus

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 10:27 PM

Also:
Star Wars Novel References
X-Wing: Wedge's Gamble page 237:
"Each night clean new memory cores are placed in the computers and trillions of exabytes of transactions are transferred to the new cores."

Also: navi computers. Capable of plotting courses anywhere in the galaxy, while having to factor in real time navigation hazards. Smaller ones can be fitted into droids with 15 different desitnations (which I assume are present by the user) and some are handheld.

#76 Skirmisher

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 11:23 PM

Also:
Star Wars Novel References
X-Wing: Wedge's Gamble page 237:
"Each night clean new memory cores are placed in the computers and trillions of exabytes of transactions are transferred to the new cores."

Also: navi computers. Capable of plotting courses anywhere in the galaxy, while having to factor in real time navigation hazards. Smaller ones can be fitted into droids with 15 different desitnations (which I assume are present by the user) and some are handheld.

1) You do realise they are talking about the MAIN COMPUTER FOR CORUSCANT?! You've effectively compared Data, to a Planet wide super computer...

2) "Navicomputers would calculate data like the exact destination, the quickest and safest route to it, and the number of hyperspace jumps necessary."

"Different buffers held different numbers of jump coordinates, ranging from the single set a stock R1 could hold to the R7's ability to hold fifteen different destinations."

Difference in years between models about half a century or more... and they've only been able to improve it's storage capacity for Coordinates along a pre-calculated route, with how much time these routes would take... by a factor of One additional route every 31/3 years.

As well, IIRC they still needed a kind of interstellar weather network to crunch all the calcs on active hazards along routes. They could easily rank a variety of different route and arrange them from safest to most dangerous. This would mean that they do the dirty work of "factor[ing] in real time navigation hazards" and just provide the data to the Astromechs and Navi Comps.

#77 Ruinus

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 12:35 AM

1) You do realise they are talking about the MAIN COMPUTER FOR CORUSCANT?! You've effectively compared Data, to a Planet wide super computer...


"Winter describes the memory systems of computers on Coruscant."

It says nothing about a "main" computer. Also, it seems that the quote is talking about business computers, as it mentions "transactions". BTW: You should also notice that these computers store this information every day, as (for some reason) the cores have to be swapped every single day.

2) "Navicomputers would calculate data like the exact destination, the quickest and safest route to it, and the number of hyperspace jumps necessary."

"Different buffers held different numbers of jump coordinates, ranging from the single set a stock R1 could hold to the R7's ability to hold fifteen different destinations."

Difference in years between models about half a century or more... and they've only been able to improve it's storage capacity for Coordinates along a pre-calculated route, with how much time these routes would take... by a factor of One additional route every 31/3 years.


The R1-7s are astromech navigation buffers which are specifically mentioned as being different than actual navi computers, because astromechs couldn't hold them. So your comparison of them is quite terrible.

Actual navi-computers, the ones fitted on actual ships, calculate every single thing involved in a hyperspace jump.

BTW: saying "Oh look, in this amount of time they only went from 1 route to 15 is slow!" is quite ridiculous, seeing as how we don't even know the actual data requirements for doing so, it's also odd seeing as how they are even able to do such a thing inside a droid no bigger than a trash can.

As well, IIRC they still needed a kind of interstellar weather network to crunch all the calcs on active hazards along routes. They could easily rank a variety of different route and arrange them from safest to most dangerous. This would mean that they do the dirty work of "factor[ing] in real time navigation hazards" and just provide the data to the Astromechs and Navi Comps.


Nope. Your article mentions nothing of the sort. It simply mentions that it held "recent astrogation data and laws and regulations." The navicomputer article states that the navicomp itself is "a device that made the careful calculations necessary to navigate through hyperspace" The Space Ministry compiles the information on where everything is, the navicomp has to crunch the numbers by itself.

This is entirely in line with a civilzation that can carry entire blueprints for 160km wide ships inside discs no bigger than your hand, where droids have 5-exabyte storage capacity, where holograms can be put into your hand and where civilian ships have to upload the entire map of a galaxy and do real time calculations for safe travel.

#78 Skirmisher

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 01:30 AM

"Winter describes the memory systems of computers on Coruscant."

It says nothing about a "main" computer.


Page 236-237 Wedges Gamble

Asyr laid a hand gently over one of Vorru's. "I don't understand why it is so difficult to slice code into the main computer. There are billions of transactions and messages that go through the system on an hourly basis. Something ought to be able to get though, shouldn't it?
Wedge shrugged. "Seems like it, but I guess not. Winter?"
She tucked a strand of white hair back behind her ear. "The Imperial computers operate through... [lots of technobabel] If a system program comes in without an access code that is cleared for entering system programs, it's dumped."
Corran frowned. "If you were able to wrap a program up in the right disguise, it would get though, right?"
"Presumably, but we don't have the right codes. those codes are changed by the hour..."


She then apparently changes the topic completely and talks about changing memory cores. I can only assume that these Codes to the Main Computer, are changed out with each Memory Core. Meaning that, Yes this is the Imperial Main Computer for Coruscant.

And that yes you have effectively tried to compare Data, an Android, to a Planet Wide Super Computer...

Actual navi-computers, the ones fitted on actual ships, calculate every single thing involved in a hyperspace jump.


"[The Navi Computer] was a device that made the careful calculations necessary to navigate through hyperspace. Navicomputers would calculate data like the exact destination, the quickest and safest route to it, and the number of hyperspace jumps necessary."

They only do three things. Destination, Route, Time...

That's as easy as analyzing a set of coordinates, finding what the Weather Network says is the safest route between point A and B, and how long it would take...

#79 MarvelFan15

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 01:34 AM

It really is a joy to watch sci-fi fans (level headed, sensible, intelligent sci-fi fans) argue. :)

#80 ricrery

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 01:47 AM

By the way, can I have a link to Star Wars teleportation? I know force users can teleport, but doesn't the Star Wars galaxy have teleporters too?




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