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Thor Vs Goku


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#41 Nuan07

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 11:31 PM

That's kind of a contradiction, is it not?

If you're going to use them when said character's in the battle then why not use them even when that character's out of battle? What's the difference? Canon or Non-Canon? Doesn't matter. Shouldn't matter. This site, I believe Nuan said, prides itself on the use of feats to debate character matches... I didn't hear whether they be canon or non-canon.

Hell, the matches on here are what you would call "Non-canon".

Again, what's the difference?

no that was catnips, i would love to take cred but he'd only whine if i did :P hahahah

although i did mention the feats thing a long long long time ago, i believe treach has it saved on his comp or something as he constantly refers to it :huh:

exactly the entire premise of this site is 'non-canon' and everyother reason that has been mentioned... oh dont forget the original creator argument. you know, the one where well if you say akira didnt make, well what has stan lee made in marvel recently???..... oooohh yeah..... silence

#42 LegendX

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 12:00 AM

That's kind of a contradiction, is it not?

If you're going to use them when said character's in the battle then why not use them even when that character's out of battle? What's the difference? Canon or Non-Canon? Doesn't matter. Shouldn't matter. This site, I believe Nuan said, prides itself on the use of feats to debate character matches... I didn't hear whether they be canon or non-canon.

Hell, the matches on here are what you would call "Non-canon".

Again, what's the difference?

Ya know, I had this same issue years ago, when I first joined this site. Let me attempt to clarify...

Broly may be non-canon to the DBZ main story-line, but he is still an actual existing character, tied in to a separate canon. If he is being use in a fight then his feats must be use in the debate or else your arguing So-and-So vs Thin Air.

If we were to use any non-canon source fan fics would be acceptable for debate. That would mean that I could draw a panel where Superman destroys the Milky Way and five other galaxies when he accidently let himself blink too hard and that would be admissible.

In short non-canon source are only acceptable when...
1) the author decides that it is
2) Non-canon material is directly involved in the match up

#43 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 12:11 AM

Ya know, I had this same issue years ago, when I first joined this site. Let me attempt to clarify...

Broly may be non-canon to the DBZ main story-line, but he is still an actual existing character, tied in to a separate canon. If he is being use in a fight then his feats must be use in the debate or else your arguing So-and-So vs Thin Air.

If we were to use any non-canon source fan fics would be acceptable for debate. That would mean that I could draw a panel where Superman destroys the Milky Way and five other galaxies when he accidently let himself blink too hard and that would be admissible.

In short non-canon source are only acceptable when...
1) the author decides that it is
2) Non-canon material is directly involved in the match up

Or what specific character it is, like Golden age Superman... ETC. that's different.

#44 LegendX

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 12:19 AM

Or what specific character it is, like Golden age Superman... ETC. that's different.

Yeah. If the author had specifically said that this Goku was the one from whatever series Broly came from than his feats as far as they related to Goku would be entirely usable.

#45 Nuan07

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 12:19 AM

If we were to use any non-canon source fan fics would be acceptable for debate. That would mean that I could draw a panel where Superman destroys the Milky Way and five other galaxies when he accidently let himself blink too hard and that would be admissible.

In short non-canon source are only acceptable when...
1) the author decides that it is
2) Non-canon material is directly involved in the match up

???? :huh: what the hell ???.... madness oozing from ever orifice...
fan fic... what???? seriously now, where did that come from???

everything has been approved by the original writer Akira toriyama... so your whole 'canon' argument is moot. not going to keep repeating myself, just re-read earlier post to save me the time... you basically backed up my point.... thank... you... ?????

#46 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 12:29 AM

Yeah. If the author had specifically said that this Goku was the one from whatever series Broly came from than his feats as far as they related to Goku would be entirely usable.

Nooooooo......


Did you not read my previous posts? Logically, what I said makes it work. And even SS3 Goku vs. Broly would still be a viable match.

#47 LegendX

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 12:39 AM

???? :huh: what the hell ???.... madness oozing from ever orifice...
fan fic... what???? seriously now, where did that come from???

everything has been approved by the original writer Akira toriyama... so your whole 'canon' argument is moot. not going to keep repeating myself, just re-read earlier post to save me the time... you basically backed up my point.... thank... you... ?????

First off I was not addressing you. Second I'm not a DBZ fan and have no idea what is or is not canon. Nor do I care. Third I'm not actually arguing anything I was explaining to Panzer why we generally do not use feats considered non-canon in debates around here, simple. If you choose to consider everything canon than that's you choice, but it puts you in the minority.

#48 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 12:50 AM

First off I was not addressing you. Second I'm not a DBZ fan and have no idea what is or is not canon. Nor do I care. Third I'm not actually arguing anything I was explaining to Panzer why we generally do not use feats considered non-canon in debates around here, simple. If you choose to consider everything canon than that's you choice, but it puts you in the minority.

.......Let me ask you this. Are the matches here Canon?

If one uses a non-canon character's feats while said character is in a match, then what's the difference if they're used outside the matches? They're basically the same thing.

I thought this site prided itself on the use of feats on for all of its characters in the Database....?

#49 Nuan07

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 01:05 AM

First off I was not addressing you. Second I'm not a DBZ fan and have no idea what is or is not canon. Nor do I care. Third I'm not actually arguing anything I was explaining to Panzer why we generally do not use feats considered non-canon in debates around here, simple. If you choose to consider everything canon than that's you choice, but it puts you in the minority.

who cares if you were addressing me, if what i have to say is relevant then it should be put forward... reminds me a of a little 'canon' argument.
no you seem to be confusing yourself and the situation concerning 'canon' and not making much sense and almost ignoring points that counteract what you are saying and makes is pointless.

it does put me in the minority, of the sane, ruled by common sense and logic... its nice here, a bit breezy, but plenty of sun.

#50 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 01:07 AM

who cares if you were addressing me, if what i have to say is relevant then it should be put forward... reminds me a of a little 'canon' argument.
no you seem to be confusing yourself and the situation concerning 'canon' and not making much sense and almost ignoring points that counteract what you are saying and makes is pointless.

it does put me in the minority, of the sane, ruled by common sense and logic... its nice here, a bit breezy, but plenty of sun.

Dude, do you have a bit of... Superiority Complex?

#51 LegendX

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 01:21 AM

.......Let me ask you this. Are the matches here Canon?
No. They are hypothetical.


If one uses a non-canon character's feats while said character is in a match, then what's the difference if they're used outside the matches? They're basically the same thing.

If a non-canon character is in a match the their feats have to be used. Really that part should be self explanatory. By definition non-canon is not tied in to some defined canon and thus becomes it's own canon.
It isn't even really a question of canon so much as continuity. Think of it like alternate universes. In some other universe I may be a world class powerlifter, or a prize fighter or a doctor. That doesn't mean I'd be capable of lifting 700lbs, taking a Heavyweight Title or performing open heart surgery in this one.
Look at Batman... Adam West vs Christian Bale. Two almost entirely different characters, same name. It may not always be such big differences between versions, but it still stands that a characters feats do do not cross over into separate continuities.
There are exceptions like the new Star Trek movie. It apparently share the same background continuity as the original series, but then breaks away at that point to become it's own continuity.



#52 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 01:33 AM

Ahhh, that's a part of what we're saying.

But nonetheless, even Non-Canons like Broly can fit in the storyline if you think it logically.

I'm not saying hes part of the storyline though.

#53 LegendX

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 01:39 AM

Ahhh, that's a part of what we're saying.

But nonetheless, even Non-Canons like Broly can fit in the storyline if you think it logically.

I'm not saying hes part of the storyline though.

Maybe I'd say that depends entirely on just how much the same Goku is from one version to the next. You'd be able to use Goku as a measure for Broly's abilities, but not so much the opposite way since the events never happened in mainline continuity(or so I've heard).

#54 AKUMA

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 01:39 AM

this canon arguement is still goin on...

umm.... :huh:

#55 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 01:43 AM

Maybe I'd say that depends entirely on just how much the same Goku is from one version to the next. You'd be able to use Goku as a measure for Broly's abilities, but not so much the opposite way since the events never happened in mainline continuity(or so I've heard).

Yes. Would you say that... Dragonball GT is not canon?

#56 LegendX

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 04:48 AM

this canon arguement is still goin on...

umm.... :huh:

I know... Shoot me if I ever get into that again.

Yes. Would you say that... Dragonball GT is not canon?

Don't know. Never been into DB. I was speaking from what little I've retained of what I've heard on the boards.

#57 Nuan07

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 10:42 PM

Dude, do you have a bit of... Superiority Complex?

no no no, BOW!!! hahahaha no i just speak common sense, and i dont really pretty words up much or beat around the bush.

and psychologically it would seem from my statement that i actually have a inferiority complex, normally a person projects the opposite spectrum to mask their complex, for example napoleon, small dog big bark... simple psychology... :huh:

#58 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 10:44 PM

no no no, BOW!!! hahahaha no i just speak common sense, and i dont really pretty words up much or beat around the bush.

and psychologically it would seem from my statement that i actually have a inferiority complex, normally a person projects the opposite spectrum to mask their complex, for example napoleon, small dog big bark... simple psychology... :huh:

Mhhhhh... Okay.

#59 Nuan07

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 10:48 PM

Maybe I'd say that depends entirely on just how much the same Goku is from one version to the next. You'd be able to use Goku as a measure for Broly's abilities, but not so much the opposite way since the events never happened in mainline continuity(or so I've heard).

but if you think about it logically, it makes perfect sense, for a start there are no alternate universe in DBZ so thats out, Brolly fits in in the 10 days training in the cell games...
gohan is SSJ which only happens in cell saga, he does not activate SSJ2 which he learns during his fight with cell. so by that logic the film could not have happened before or after those points the in DBZ timeline. so you must calculate using the figures and feats provided at that time...

your alternate universe argument is entirely moot.... even if the brolly movie was hosted in a parallel universe, all the facts are the same, they use Ki, they has the same abilities and base stats and fighting style and genetics and everything is exactly the same.... so your doctor point is pretty pointless....

surely this 'canon' argument is over, iv ended it a few times now alone... its just common sense

#60 Nuan07

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 10:49 PM

Mhhhhh... Okay.

glad i could help :huh: now we all understand




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