121 replies to this topic

[AKUMA]

*Sighs* Dude, I got into a argument like this, proclaiming separation of Canon and Non-canon. It doesn't matter in the end, I realized. They're characters. You judge them based on their feats and powers. Broly owning four Super Saiyans, a Super Namek without break in fighting, his galaxy busting, his being weakened when he fought the Z-Fighters (Namely Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Videl) where Gohan is stronger than before, as I Know All stated as the Z-Fighters are by the Buu Saga than they were in the Cell saga, and still get beaten around effortlessly. Those are what can be used to compare power levels. These are feats. Canon, or not, it does not matter anymore. They're all characters.


That argument is speculation.

actually isnt broly suppose to be stronger in movie 10, since saiyans grow stronger after every battle or near fatal injury (broly's case in movie 8).
so that would mean broly must have been a little stronger in movie 10....

[TheRandomBandit]

Yes, it does matter. Non Cannon feats are useless here. They provide nothing.

[Jaeger Panzer]

Yes, it does matter. Non Cannon feats are useless here. They provide nothing.

MMmmhhh then that makes the character entirely useless and non-debatable then. How would you debate Broly in a fight against SS3 Goku then? I realize that this is not the match but still. Same thing would go for SS2 Gohan against Bojack if you were debating that as well. By using the only thing they have, their feats and powers.

Oh BTW, nice to see ya again, Random Monkey King of Haven .

[Jaeger Panzer]

actually isnt broly suppose to be stronger in movie 10, since saiyans grow stronger after every battle or near fatal injury (broly's case in movie 8).
so that would mean broly must have been a little stronger in movie 10....

That is true but it doesn't seem like it as he is still weak as he's been frozen for years in the same state after crash-landing from his battle with the Z-Fighters on New Vegeta.

[AKUMA]

That is true but it doesn't seem like it as he is still weak as he's been frozen for years in the same state after crash-landing from his battle with the Z-Fighters on New Vegeta.

why don't u head on over to the new thread i made about broly
its in the CBUB general discussions forum.

Since everyone seems to be on broly, head over to the "Broly's power is maximum" thread in the CBUB general discussions forum.

[Jaeger Panzer]

why don't u head on over to the new thread i made about broly
its in the CBUB general discussions forum.

Since everyone seems to be on broly, head over to the "Broly's power is maximum" thread in the CBUB general discussions forum.

I noticed that, lol. Alright, I will.

[Nuan07]

nice to see someone else has come to their senses concerning 'canon'

why has this even come about anyway???... back on track, goku takes this

[AKUMA]

nice to see someone else has come to their senses concerning 'canon'

why has this even come about anyway???... back on track, goku takes this

KNOW IT ALL brung it up....for some reason...
then skirm tagged along...

[Skirmisher]

KNOW IT ALL brung it up....for some reason...
then skirm tagged along...

I don't tag along, I brought up a valid point and discussed alternatives.

Nesh can even tell you that Brolly is no stronger than a SSJ2, which based on what Cell was claiming was no more than a System Buster. So then if Brolly < Cell then how could he have Busted a Galaxy. This and the fact it doesn't fit the timeline means that it is Non-Canon to the main series, and cannot be used to accurately gauge a main cannon characters power.

But still, Goku as SSJ3 would have been able to beat Buu (if he didn't mess around) who was confirmed in non-filler as a Galaxy Buster, the first and only Canon Galaxy Buster in DBZ too. Since DBZ places no actual separation between Power to Destroy a Galaxy and the Power of a Person then SSJ3 Goku was Galaxy Buster.

So if SSJ3 Goku = Galaxy Buster
And OF Thor = Galaxy Buster

Then it's equal based on Strength alone... but Goku has an edge. He has his entire Life's Experience fighting Super Powered foes who at times were much more powerful than he was in battle. As well as his Martial Arts which he has practiced throughout his life of Training and Battle. As well as the fact that all of his considerable intelligence is put into being Battle Smart, which leads him to look like an idiot when not in battle...

IMO Another edge is that I believe that Ki attacks would prove the Better Weapon than Thor's Hammer. With the Hammer you can only do so much in this fight, but Ki is varied in it's use. It can be used to amplify Goku's power, or create invisible attacks, create disks of energy that can slice through ANYTHING, Lens the Sunlight to produce a Blinding Flair of light, move instantly from one location to another, all in addition to just throwing it at people in a Beam or Ball. (there are still more techniques of using Ki out there that are different, but these are the ones Goku knows)

Goku wins by having equal power, better experience & training, battle smarts, and a better weapons than Thor.

[Jaeger Panzer]

Super Perfect Cell said he could blow away the solar system. SS2 Gohan uses his full power to kill Cell, where they locked two equal beams with each other and he slain Cell. This would confirm SS2 Gohan as a solar system buster at least.

Broly busted the galaxy, we all know that. Sooo..... Galaxy Busting > Solar System Busting. And if that's not enough, he's pawned five guys, who all together fought him and definitely, power level wise combined, surpass SS2 Gohan's power levels... and that's without Broly taking a break.

Gohan did not learn how to go Super Saiyan until after he trained with his father in the hyperbolic chamber. So its safe to say.... the fight between those guys occurred before the Cell Games as they were given ten days by Cell and training in the Hyperbolic chamber is one year inside while a day outside. That means out of the ten days, they could have fought any of the nine days, or do whatever they want, like take a break and go to a picnic (When then led to the battle between Broly and the Z-Fighters).

Plus think about it. The Z-Fighters are capable of hurting Cell and killing him, especially Goku (Maybe, he's always seemed to come through anyways) and Gohan. And they're not that much stronger at this point if you think about it, following the storyline of when Gohan gained his Super transformation, but of course, Gohan's SS2 excludes him as well. But this can still be used to gauge the fighters. Broly takes a likely full powered Kamehameha, at SS1 no less, capable of planet busting as Goku's beaten Frieza who was capable of busting planets with 1% of his power (so possibly that Kamehameha blast might even be beyond planet-busting at that point as Goku's gotten stronger since last he fought Frieza), to the face and does not suffer any injuries at all, none, it just made Broly laugh his ass off.

He also takes on four super saiyans, and one super namek. Gohan did not learn how to go Super Saiyan until after he trained with his father in the hyperbolic chamber. So its safe to say.... the fight between those guys occurred before the Cell Games as they were given ten days by Cell and training in the Hyperbolic chamber is one year inside while a day outside. That means out of the ten days, they could have fought any of the nine days, or do whatever they want, like take a break and go to a picnic (When then led to the battle between Broly and the Z-Fighters).

Another note, Broly was defeated... due to an old knife he has as he was stabbed whilst a infant. Goku's punch reopened the old wound. Its happened before, old wounds bleeding even though they've been healed in real life. So without it, the Z-Fighters would have died.

This all makes sense, sense enough to the point where it can be used to accurately determine Broly's power.

Non-Canon has no place on this website...

[AKUMA]

I don't tag along, I brought up a valid point and discussed alternatives.

yes, atleast u did provide a reason for yours unlike KNOW iT ALL...

i see where ur going, and thats true providing broly cant beat a SS2 which is debatable to some...
but it is very difficult to compare canon with non canon as u stated..i agree...but we still do it...

i found this picture on the wiki a few days ago and i want to see what everyone thinks about it...


so what do u think? think this is legit? is from the 'Daizenshuu' so it says on wiki...

its hard to say because in the canon gohan dosent really achieve ss2 again untill he was forced to dish it out for kabito.
and he had gotton weaker from not battling or training for 7 years...

plus one could argue the trasformation appearance for a SS2...

in this statement from wiki, one sums up an expalnation of how gohan was an a SS2 in the second broly movie...

"During Gohan's fight with Broly, Gohan says "He's still as much of a challenge as the last time I fought him!" Since Broly was primarily using his Super Saiyan form (as opposed to his stronger Legendary Super Saiyan form, which had been his dominant form in their last encounter), this implies that Broly may have become significantly stronger (since Gohan experienced a significant power gain upon his Super Saiyan 2 transformation, which he could not access when they last fought). This notion is further substantiated by Gohan's statement saying that he [Gohan], too, had become stronger since their previous confrontation. The Japanese version also supports this, saying that Broly had even powered up since they last fought."

so whats the input...

[Jaeger Panzer]

yes, atleast u did provide a reason for yours unlike KNOW iT ALL...

i see where ur going, and thats true providing broly cant beat a SS2 which is debatable to some...
but it is very difficult to compare canon with non canon as u stated..i agree...but we still do it...

i found this picture on the wiki a few days ago and i want to see what everyone thinks about it...


so what do u think? think this is legit? is from the 'Daizenshuu' so it says on wiki...

its hard to say because in the canon gohan dosent really achieve ss2 again untill he was forced to dish it out for kabito.
and he had gotton weaker from not battling or training for 7 years...

plus one could argue the trasformation appearance for a SS2...

in this statement from wiki, one sums up an expalnation of how gohan was an a SS2 in the second broly movie...

"During Gohan's fight with Broly, Gohan says "He's still as much of a challenge as the last time I fought him!" Since Broly was primarily using his Super Saiyan form (as opposed to his stronger Legendary Super Saiyan form, which had been his dominant form in their last encounter), this implies that Broly may have become significantly stronger (since Gohan experienced a significant power gain upon his Super Saiyan 2 transformation, which he could not access when they last fought). This notion is further substantiated by Gohan's statement saying that he [Gohan], too, had become stronger since their previous confrontation. The Japanese version also supports this, saying that Broly had even powered up since they last fought."

so whats the input...

LMAO, that just about trashes everyone's theories of Broly being weaker than SS2 and better yet, Broly was giving SS2 Gohan a hard time in his NORMAL Super Saiyan form... EXCELLENT Find Akuma.

[Nuan07]

Super Perfect Cell said he could blow away the solar system. SS2 Gohan uses his full power to kill Cell, where they locked two equal beams with each other and he slain Cell. This would confirm SS2 Gohan as a solar system buster at least.

Broly busted the galaxy, we all know that. Sooo..... Galaxy Busting > Solar System Busting. And if that's not enough, he's pawned five guys, who all together fought him and definitely, power level wise combined, surpass SS2 Gohan's power levels... and that's without Broly taking a break.

Gohan did not learn how to go Super Saiyan until after he trained with his father in the hyperbolic chamber. So its safe to say.... the fight between those guys occurred before the Cell Games as they were given ten days by Cell and training in the Hyperbolic chamber is one year inside while a day outside. That means out of the ten days, they could have fought any of the nine days, or do whatever they want, like take a break and go to a picnic (When then led to the battle between Broly and the Z-Fighters).

Plus think about it. The Z-Fighters are capable of hurting Cell and killing him, especially Goku (Maybe, he's always seemed to come through anyways) and Gohan. And they're not that much stronger at this point if you think about it, following the storyline of when Gohan gained his Super transformation, but of course, Gohan's SS2 excludes him as well. But this can still be used to gauge the fighters. Broly takes a likely full powered Kamehameha, at SS1 no less, capable of planet busting as Goku's beaten Frieza who was capable of busting planets with 1% of his power (so possibly that Kamehameha blast might even be beyond planet-busting at that point as Goku's gotten stronger since last he fought Frieza), to the face and does not suffer any injuries at all, none, it just made Broly laugh his ass off.

He also takes on four super saiyans, and one super namek. Gohan did not learn how to go Super Saiyan until after he trained with his father in the hyperbolic chamber. So its safe to say.... the fight between those guys occurred before the Cell Games as they were given ten days by Cell and training in the Hyperbolic chamber is one year inside while a day outside. That means out of the ten days, they could have fought any of the nine days, or do whatever they want, like take a break and go to a picnic (When then led to the battle between Broly and the Z-Fighters).

Another note, Broly was defeated... due to an old knife he has as he was stabbed whilst a infant. Goku's punch reopened the old wound. Its happened before, old wounds bleeding even though they've been healed in real life. So without it, the Z-Fighters would have died.

This all makes sense, sense enough to the point where it can be used to accurately determine Broly's power.

Non-Canon has no place on this website...

almost word for word how i would have said it, i will honestly find a hat latter on to take off to you good sir... and the cell games idea, me and catnips have already discussed ourselves, and am in full agreement, awesomely seen.

plus i think the way goku won, was such a plot line cop out, brolly realistically should have destroyed all of them...

and dont ever give up that position on 'canon' its the right one, period!

[Jaeger Panzer]

almost word for word how i would have said it, i will honestly find a hat latter on to take off to you good sir... and the cell games idea, me and catnips have already discussed ourselves, and am in full agreement, awesomely seen.

plus i think the way goku won, was such a plot line cop out, brolly realistically should have destroyed all of them...

and dont ever give up that position on 'canon' its the right one, period!

Thanks!

[Nuan07]

nice Akuma, taking in consideration power loss and gain, obviously its hard to really give any accurate figures or anything like that, but even still its pretty damn close and obvious to a certain extent that this shows that brolly is at least around a SS2 level, and thats at first form, not legendary... taking into account the brolly effect and the fact that his power in constantly increasing as well...

[LegendX]

Non-canon feats are applicable ONLY when non-canon characters are being used.

If this fight were Thor vs Broly then all his feats and related feats would count.

[Nuan07]

Non-canon feats are applicable ONLY when non-canon characters are being used.

If this fight were Thor vs Broly then all his feats and related feats would count.

no such thing...

[LegendX]

no such thing...

What?

[Jaeger Panzer]

Non-canon feats are applicable ONLY when non-canon characters are being used.

If this fight were Thor vs Broly then all his feats and related feats would count.

That's kind of a contradiction, is it not?

If you're going to use them when said character's in the battle then why not use them even when that character's out of battle? What's the difference? Canon or Non-Canon? Doesn't matter. Shouldn't matter. This site, I believe Nuan said, prides itself on the use of feats to debate character matches... I didn't hear whether they be canon or non-canon.

Hell, the matches on here are what you would call "Non-canon".

Again, what's the difference?

[Nuan07]

What?

'Non-canon' there is only exists and doesnt...
different time lines and dimensions bring about different incarnations of characters.
otherwise you have approved and not approved and every artist has complete control over his work... otherwise suing would ensue, common sense.
Approved = 'canon'
not approved = 'non-canon'

this convo has been done to death by now...

(normally this is where you say, not in manga therefore.... blah //its approved, valid//)