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#1421 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 03:59 AM

Spoiler


#1422 DamagingRob

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:10 AM

Landon needs to go see this thing, if he hasn't already, and do one of his review thingies. I might not always agree with his opinion, but he does write good, detailed reviews.

#1423 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:53 AM

There's this thing called RottenTomatoes, Rob, I think it might have what you're looking for. :P

#1424 Darkender

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:56 AM

Ah, thanks for the PM' guys those little clues definitely passed me by.

#1425 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:23 AM

*SPOILERS*

*Really*

Question: How come the Hulk went from being an uncontrollable, all-out-attacking beast to a creature that could suddenly comprehend being in a team and even able to talk? How? When did that happen?

As AvP said Banner was in pain, the beast took control, and the first thing he saw was Widow. Hulk smash.

As for having control, did you watch The Incredible Hulk? At the end Edward Norton is meditating, smiles and his eyes light up green. Showing he has control over Hulk.

So, it is not symbolic as Pseudonym suggested, it is him literally having control over Hulk. In the Avengers movie, Bruce states "I'm always angry" and instantly turns into the Hulk.

Before that when Hulk was kicked off the Hellcarrier, the old man tells Bruce "You were awake when you hit the ground" showing he(The Hulk) had enough control to stick his landing where no one would get hurt.

If you don't like the movie, then you must have seen a different film than I did.

#1426 Marvel Man

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 12:36 PM

The Avengers movie is Marvel's Best film.

Yes. I said it. Suck it First Class.

But seriously... You guys have no idea how insanely hard it is to make an Avengers movie that pleases everyone. There's so many A-List celebrities, so much comic book lore, so many possible pitfalls, etc. But may the good Lord strike me down with lightning if Marvel didn't get as close as is humanly possible. Able to skip the origins thanks to all those previous movies, the Avengers movie was everything a good superhero movie needed to be. Nay, it was everything a good summer blockbuster has to be.

The characters and their interactions were awesome, the special effects were breath taking (almost as much as Maria Hill, who although I've seen in "How I Met Your Mother" was OMGHOWCANANYONEBETHATHOT!), and the story, although formulaic at times (which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I mean, which superhero movie isn't?) was still engaging and interesting.

I know I'm bias to Marvel, but I don't think I've geeked out to a movie quite as much as I geeked out to this one. I mean, everything just seemed to fall into place. The characters were way more fleshed out than I had assumed they'd be, there was way more action than just the usual superhero climax battle, the action scenes were epic, Nick Fury was a SPY and not just a good guy, everyone acted like I thought they should/would, etc etc.

Of course, I'm not saying EVERYTHING was perfect. I'm sure there were bad things, I just couldn't find any.

#1427 DamagingRob

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 02:25 PM

There's this thing called RottenTomatoes, Rob, I think it might have what you're looking for. Posted Image

Heh. Also, who the hell is that guy with the Wile E. Coyote avatar?

#1428 Landon

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 03:27 PM

Avengers was pretty decent.

They made Cap's leadership role work and made his gung-ho patriotic earnestness seem genuine.

Iron Man was Robert Downey Jr. Yeah. That says it all. And his scene with Loki was good stuff.

Hulk was pretty awesome. Easily the best use of him in a movie to date.

Thor... had a good line or two? That's about it.

Black Widow was every Joss Whedon female character ever. Meh.

Hawkeye may as well have not been in the movie. At least his arrow thingie was cool.

Nick Fury was underwhelming, but he had to be there I guess. Sam L was phoning it in.

Agent Coulson was pretty cool and the stuff that happened to him was quite appropriate.

Loki's scheme was nonsensical, but that nonsense makes sense for him. He felt like a child acting out who just wanted his big bro to hug him, even if it meant subjugating humanity to get his attention. He, Hulk, and Cap were the best things about the movie.

The alien things were typical CGI cannon fodder, but I dug the space wormsnake transport ship things.

The dialogue was pretty decent and avoided the Whedonisms I was fearing for the most part. Easily the best-written of the series (Iron Man/Hulk/Thor/Cap/Avengers).

The beginning was a bit slow-going as they gathered the team. The individual scenes worked, but it didn't quite work as a narrative whole. Things finally picked up during the scene where Loki screws around in Germany.

When the action was all shooty-shooty, it was pretty clear. The way they zipped around the battleground and showed things was shot well. The hand to hand fighting could have benefited from the camera being pulled back a bit so we could see what's happening. But Baysplosions it was not. The action made sense and was comprehensible.

The cast needed one other non-Widow female character. She was alright I guess, but they could have used someone who fit into the Wasp roll of the original Avengers. Or Scarlet Witch. Someone on the brainy side of things.

We need SUPERVILLAINS. All of these movies have one name-brand villain and waves of fodder. Cap had Red Skull and Hydra goons. Thor had Loki and frost giant goons (And Destroyer, but eh). The Iron Man movies were all about generic cannon fodder enemies. Hulk sucked and doesn't get a vote. Avengers had a rehash of Loki with some alien robot skeleton things from that Ultimates universe that no one really gives a damn about. The fight needs to be on a more personal level. The X-Men movies did a good job of that since we have These Mutants vs Those Mutants. It was a clash of personalities rather than a clash of bodies. When Loki is going at it with one of the heroes, whether it's verbally or physically, it carried a lot more weight than the endless hordes of video game enemies. That final battle was very well made, but I don't give a fuck about defeating an army. I want to defeat SUPERVILLAINS in a SUPERHERO movie. It was fine in Cap. It isn't fine in a non-war movie.

The mid-credits reveal thing was cool. It'll be interesting to see what they do with that, Hopefully it'll be an recurring element in the upcoming Marvel movies like Iron Man 3 and whatnot.

All that said, it's a shame that it's taken us SIX movies just to get to the point that we have a team that can DO STUFF. Really. Other than the Captain America movie, I haven't really enjoyed any of these Pre-Avengers movies as stand-alone movies. They've felt like extended trailers teasing of what's to come. They've had individual elements that worked well (mostly character interaction stuff), but as actual MOVIES they've haven't worked. It's like I paid money to see two hour commercials for the movie I finally saw yesterday, and half of THAT movie was build-up to what really mattered. Now we're finally at the point where the characters can breathe and do their thing and we have to wait until, what, 2015 to see a movie that can have its own stand-alone narrative? That's fine when you're churning out a movie in a series with greater regularity, but in the number of movies it took, say, Harry Potter to tell the majority of it's story, the Avengers' story is JUST BEGINNING. That's great marketing but lousy storytelling. That sort of "development" can work in comics since you wait maybe a month or so between issues, on in a TV series where you get a new episode ever week or so, but it doesn't work in movies.

But it IS a solid movie. If I have to compare I'd say First Class is still the best Marvel movie, but Avengers is up there.

#1429 bigballerju

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 04:00 PM

My favorite scene of the Avengers is when Hulk smashes around Loki then grins and says Puny God. Avengers is my favorite Marvel movie now right under X-Men First Class which is my second.

#1430 Landon

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 04:28 PM

http://mecha-guignol...5/the-avengers/

Extended version of the rant I posted above.

#1431 Darkender

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 05:49 PM

How is First Class better than Avengers? I really don't see how. Avengers, though it had a slow start, was much more captivating. It had way more action, which I value in superhero movies, and still represented the characters well.

#1432 bigballerju

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:01 PM

Avengers has a great as it was couldn't have been perfect which is fine for me. As long as it got Marvel one foot in the door and it finally established the Avenger's team with success then I am good. However it looks like for the second movie we will get our big supervillain.

Oh by the way did you guys know that Kevin Feige of Marvel confirmed also Marvel has the rights to use Scarlett Witch and Quicksilver in the Avengers movie or any other film? He also said that Fox can use them as well apparently. That sounds awesome. I would rather them join the Avengers team next like the Ultimates rather then Wasp and Hank Pym.

#1433 silversurfer092

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:27 PM

To be honest, I found the Avengers kind of boring. It could be because I was more concentrated on hating 3D and how I hadn't showered after my run because of the conference meet, but until Hulk raped noobs, I was just kinda bored. It kinda pissed me off that Hawkeye was a bad guy in the beginning, I wanted to see him get leet. Scarlett Johansson is hot as hell. I'm glad to see Robin Scherbatzky in something other than How I Met Your Mother. I agree that Samuel L. Jackson just kinda did what he had to do but nothing spectacular. I don't know, overall just not very impressed. Seeing it again on Sunday, maybe without the distractions.


PS: I fucking hate Thanos, he better not be in the next Avengers movie.

#1434 bigballerju

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:15 PM

I saw mine in regular 2D for that reason. I hate 3D and it annoys me Hollywood is on this 3D kick right now. LOL the only 3D I like is the Terminator show at Universal Studios.

I am not that big of a fan of Thanos either. If they do Thanos as much as I like this Avengers movie I think a movie with Thanos as the villain should be directed by somebody else who is better with the type of film that would be story wise. Whedon's track record with doing sci fi or anything even slightly related to it isn't very good even if you like Firefly. Not only that I wouldn't leave all that character development with the sequel's villain and introducing any other new superheroes to Whedon.

#1435 Landon

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 10:25 AM

First Class has style in its favor, and movies being a visual medium, style matters a lot. Avengers looked like every other super hero movie out there while First Class had its 60s aesthetic going for it. First Class was more like an oldschool Bond flick, making it stand out against the me-too vibe of almost every other super hero movie.

First Class had the Xavier/Magneto conflict, which is far more personal than any of the conflict in Avengers. The Thor/Loki bit was almost inconsequential in Avengers. By having a personal conflict at its center, First Class had more at stake that I found interesting.

Hellfire Club >>>>>>>>> Generic Alien Zombie Skeletons

In almost every other way, the two movies were fairly equal, but it's stuff like this that makes First Class a bit more fun for me.

#1436 Pseudonym

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 01:44 PM

But the central Conflict in the Avengers wasn't Thor/Loki and it wasn't supposed to be. The central conflict was more about the building of the team than it was about the fixing the problem. Loki was barely more than a reason for the real plot to happen, and the real plot was Cap, Iron Man, Hawkeye, Widow, Hulk, and Thor getting their shit together to work as a team.

You want supervillains, well they need time to be introduced, and I don't think this movie had the time. It was 2.5 hours as it is, and to introduce any real villain would have been another half hour at least. This movie was about introducing our hero team. Next movie will introduce our villain, who, it appears will be that guy.

I couldn't stand Cap or Thor. Neither of them seemed particularly interesting to me. Hawkeye was... well he was present and that counts for something. Sammy J decently fulfilled his role. I like that he had an RPG at the ready in case some plans got uppity and decided to take off without express permision. Robert Downey Jr killed as the hilarious character. While Hulk's restrained, slightly gloomy, black humour manner was the best. Those two stole the movie, and I don't see characters that entertaining very often. Especially the Hulk, man, that guy needs more movies.

Lastly @AVP: Sometimes something is both literal and symbolic. Banner's control of the Hulk was, in my opinion, one of those things. You don't have to read it that way if you don't want.

Re: Maria Hill, I didn't expect Scarlett to be outclassed in this movie, but whoop there it is.

Good Ass Movie.

#1437 bigballerju

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 01:59 PM

Scarlett got outclassed because she gave off the vibe I am just doing all of this to get a check so she phonied it in acting wise. I have not liked her as a actress in recent years and as far as I am concerned she was the worst in this movie. Scarlett can act way better then that and I hate when actors or actresses do stuff like that. Samuel L. Jackson didn't have to do much acting wise as Nick Fury so he was okay in his role. Chris was great establishing Captain America as the leader of the Avengers and was great with his acting. Hulk's character was excellent in the film and I am one of the few people I guess who liked that Hawkeye got some attention in this movie. Hawkeye was the one to take Loki out in the end with his arrow which I liked. The actress who played Maria Hill quickly made us forget about Black Widow being the lead female hero in this movie and was good. Loki's character was the second best in the film with his manipulations, mind games, and how great he came off. Now of course Ironman was the best character in the movie and had true character development in the movie actually. He was funny and learned what it meant to become a true hero.

#1438 Landon

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:11 PM

Movies shouldn't be about INTRODUCING characters. You don't make a movie so that the plot of another upcoming movie can feel safe and familiar. That's basically what all of these Avengers-related movies have been, including Avengers itself. "Hey kids, watch this movie so that this movie feels like you've already seen it, and then this other movie will set up this other movie so that you don't have to wonder why characters are doing things that should be obvious by paying attention."

Throw me into the mix. Make me get to know the characters as they DO THINGS other than get to know each other. I don't need to know how soandso and soandso got to be friends if I see them being friends and arguing with one another DURING the story. Give me conflict that matters, not conflict that sets up a future conflict we won't see for another 3 years.

If something like the original Star Wars movies were made today, we'd get some lengthy bullshit movie that explains everything about the Jedi before we got to meet Yoda or Obi Wan. Then we'd get a movie that goes to desperate lengths to explain how Han and Chewbacca became friends. Then we'd get another movie detailing Princess Leia's life in the Alderran court and the Senate that led up to her being on the ship at the beginning of Star Wars. Basically, the original movies would be like the prequels, avoiding all the stuff that REALLY needs to be seen (like the Clone Wars) and emphasizing all of the "how this happened" nonsense that doesn't really need to be seen.

So yeah, the Avengers lead-up movies (and a good chunk of The Avengers itself) are exactly like the Star Wars prequels. All exposition and rationalization of things that don't need explaining.

#1439 Pseudonym

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:31 PM

You seem to be arguing against origin stories.

#1440 Landon

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:35 PM

Pretty much. Origin stories are terrible, especially in movie form.




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