Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:10 AM
Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:53 AM
Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:56 AM
Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:23 AM
As AvP said Banner was in pain, the beast took control, and the first thing he saw was Widow. Hulk smash.
Question: How come the Hulk went from being an uncontrollable, all-out-attacking beast to a creature that could suddenly comprehend being in a team and even able to talk? How? When did that happen?
As for having control, did you watch The Incredible Hulk? At the end Edward Norton is meditating, smiles and his eyes light up green. Showing he has control over Hulk.
So, it is not symbolic as Pseudonym suggested, it is him literally having control over Hulk. In the Avengers movie, Bruce states "I'm always angry" and instantly turns into the Hulk.
Before that when Hulk was kicked off the Hellcarrier, the old man tells Bruce "You were awake when you hit the ground" showing he(The Hulk) had enough control to stick his landing where no one would get hurt.
If you don't like the movie, then you must have seen a different film than I did.
Posted 05 May 2012 - 12:36 PM
Yes. I said it. Suck it First Class.
But seriously... You guys have no idea how insanely hard it is to make an Avengers movie that pleases everyone. There's so many A-List celebrities, so much comic book lore, so many possible pitfalls, etc. But may the good Lord strike me down with lightning if Marvel didn't get as close as is humanly possible. Able to skip the origins thanks to all those previous movies, the Avengers movie was everything a good superhero movie needed to be. Nay, it was everything a good summer blockbuster has to be.
The characters and their interactions were awesome, the special effects were breath taking (almost as much as Maria Hill, who although I've seen in "How I Met Your Mother" was OMGHOWCANANYONEBETHATHOT!), and the story, although formulaic at times (which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I mean, which superhero movie isn't?) was still engaging and interesting.
I know I'm bias to Marvel, but I don't think I've geeked out to a movie quite as much as I geeked out to this one. I mean, everything just seemed to fall into place. The characters were way more fleshed out than I had assumed they'd be, there was way more action than just the usual superhero climax battle, the action scenes were epic, Nick Fury was a SPY and not just a good guy, everyone acted like I thought they should/would, etc etc.
Of course, I'm not saying EVERYTHING was perfect. I'm sure there were bad things, I just couldn't find any.
Posted 05 May 2012 - 02:25 PM
Heh. Also, who the hell is that guy with the Wile E. Coyote avatar?
There's this thing called RottenTomatoes, Rob, I think it might have what you're looking for.
Posted 05 May 2012 - 03:27 PM
They made Cap's leadership role work and made his gung-ho patriotic earnestness seem genuine.
Iron Man was Robert Downey Jr. Yeah. That says it all. And his scene with Loki was good stuff.
Hulk was pretty awesome. Easily the best use of him in a movie to date.
Thor... had a good line or two? That's about it.
Black Widow was every Joss Whedon female character ever. Meh.
Hawkeye may as well have not been in the movie. At least his arrow thingie was cool.
Nick Fury was underwhelming, but he had to be there I guess. Sam L was phoning it in.
Agent Coulson was pretty cool and the stuff that happened to him was quite appropriate.
Loki's scheme was nonsensical, but that nonsense makes sense for him. He felt like a child acting out who just wanted his big bro to hug him, even if it meant subjugating humanity to get his attention. He, Hulk, and Cap were the best things about the movie.
The alien things were typical CGI cannon fodder, but I dug the space wormsnake transport ship things.
The dialogue was pretty decent and avoided the Whedonisms I was fearing for the most part. Easily the best-written of the series (Iron Man/Hulk/Thor/Cap/Avengers).
The beginning was a bit slow-going as they gathered the team. The individual scenes worked, but it didn't quite work as a narrative whole. Things finally picked up during the scene where Loki screws around in Germany.
When the action was all shooty-shooty, it was pretty clear. The way they zipped around the battleground and showed things was shot well. The hand to hand fighting could have benefited from the camera being pulled back a bit so we could see what's happening. But Baysplosions it was not. The action made sense and was comprehensible.
The cast needed one other non-Widow female character. She was alright I guess, but they could have used someone who fit into the Wasp roll of the original Avengers. Or Scarlet Witch. Someone on the brainy side of things.
We need SUPERVILLAINS. All of these movies have one name-brand villain and waves of fodder. Cap had Red Skull and Hydra goons. Thor had Loki and frost giant goons (And Destroyer, but eh). The Iron Man movies were all about generic cannon fodder enemies. Hulk sucked and doesn't get a vote. Avengers had a rehash of Loki with some alien robot skeleton things from that Ultimates universe that no one really gives a damn about. The fight needs to be on a more personal level. The X-Men movies did a good job of that since we have These Mutants vs Those Mutants. It was a clash of personalities rather than a clash of bodies. When Loki is going at it with one of the heroes, whether it's verbally or physically, it carried a lot more weight than the endless hordes of video game enemies. That final battle was very well made, but I don't give a fuck about defeating an army. I want to defeat SUPERVILLAINS in a SUPERHERO movie. It was fine in Cap. It isn't fine in a non-war movie.
The mid-credits reveal thing was cool. It'll be interesting to see what they do with that, Hopefully it'll be an recurring element in the upcoming Marvel movies like Iron Man 3 and whatnot.
All that said, it's a shame that it's taken us SIX movies just to get to the point that we have a team that can DO STUFF. Really. Other than the Captain America movie, I haven't really enjoyed any of these Pre-Avengers movies as stand-alone movies. They've felt like extended trailers teasing of what's to come. They've had individual elements that worked well (mostly character interaction stuff), but as actual MOVIES they've haven't worked. It's like I paid money to see two hour commercials for the movie I finally saw yesterday, and half of THAT movie was build-up to what really mattered. Now we're finally at the point where the characters can breathe and do their thing and we have to wait until, what, 2015 to see a movie that can have its own stand-alone narrative? That's fine when you're churning out a movie in a series with greater regularity, but in the number of movies it took, say, Harry Potter to tell the majority of it's story, the Avengers' story is JUST BEGINNING. That's great marketing but lousy storytelling. That sort of "development" can work in comics since you wait maybe a month or so between issues, on in a TV series where you get a new episode ever week or so, but it doesn't work in movies.
But it IS a solid movie. If I have to compare I'd say First Class is still the best Marvel movie, but Avengers is up there.
Posted 05 May 2012 - 04:00 PM
Posted 05 May 2012 - 05:49 PM
Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:01 PM
Oh by the way did you guys know that Kevin Feige of Marvel confirmed also Marvel has the rights to use Scarlett Witch and Quicksilver in the Avengers movie or any other film? He also said that Fox can use them as well apparently. That sounds awesome. I would rather them join the Avengers team next like the Ultimates rather then Wasp and Hank Pym.
Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:27 PM
PS: I fucking hate Thanos, he better not be in the next Avengers movie.
Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:15 PM
I am not that big of a fan of Thanos either. If they do Thanos as much as I like this Avengers movie I think a movie with Thanos as the villain should be directed by somebody else who is better with the type of film that would be story wise. Whedon's track record with doing sci fi or anything even slightly related to it isn't very good even if you like Firefly. Not only that I wouldn't leave all that character development with the sequel's villain and introducing any other new superheroes to Whedon.
Posted 06 May 2012 - 10:25 AM
First Class had the Xavier/Magneto conflict, which is far more personal than any of the conflict in Avengers. The Thor/Loki bit was almost inconsequential in Avengers. By having a personal conflict at its center, First Class had more at stake that I found interesting.
Hellfire Club >>>>>>>>> Generic Alien Zombie Skeletons
In almost every other way, the two movies were fairly equal, but it's stuff like this that makes First Class a bit more fun for me.
Posted 06 May 2012 - 01:44 PM
You want supervillains, well they need time to be introduced, and I don't think this movie had the time. It was 2.5 hours as it is, and to introduce any real villain would have been another half hour at least. This movie was about introducing our hero team. Next movie will introduce our villain, who, it appears will be that guy.
I couldn't stand Cap or Thor. Neither of them seemed particularly interesting to me. Hawkeye was... well he was present and that counts for something. Sammy J decently fulfilled his role. I like that he had an RPG at the ready in case some plans got uppity and decided to take off without express permision. Robert Downey Jr killed as the hilarious character. While Hulk's restrained, slightly gloomy, black humour manner was the best. Those two stole the movie, and I don't see characters that entertaining very often. Especially the Hulk, man, that guy needs more movies.
Lastly @AVP: Sometimes something is both literal and symbolic. Banner's control of the Hulk was, in my opinion, one of those things. You don't have to read it that way if you don't want.
Re: Maria Hill, I didn't expect Scarlett to be outclassed in this movie, but whoop there it is.
Good Ass Movie.
Posted 06 May 2012 - 01:59 PM
Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:11 PM
Throw me into the mix. Make me get to know the characters as they DO THINGS other than get to know each other. I don't need to know how soandso and soandso got to be friends if I see them being friends and arguing with one another DURING the story. Give me conflict that matters, not conflict that sets up a future conflict we won't see for another 3 years.
If something like the original Star Wars movies were made today, we'd get some lengthy bullshit movie that explains everything about the Jedi before we got to meet Yoda or Obi Wan. Then we'd get a movie that goes to desperate lengths to explain how Han and Chewbacca became friends. Then we'd get another movie detailing Princess Leia's life in the Alderran court and the Senate that led up to her being on the ship at the beginning of Star Wars. Basically, the original movies would be like the prequels, avoiding all the stuff that REALLY needs to be seen (like the Clone Wars) and emphasizing all of the "how this happened" nonsense that doesn't really need to be seen.
So yeah, the Avengers lead-up movies (and a good chunk of The Avengers itself) are exactly like the Star Wars prequels. All exposition and rationalization of things that don't need explaining.
Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:35 PM
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