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The Perfect Team: The Villains Finals


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#161 I_KNOW_ALL

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 03:49 AM

I'm turning in, later.



I am aswell, G'night everyone.

Note: This is your chance to think of something Skirm. Use it wisely.

#162 Skirmisher

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 03:52 AM

Filler in the manga they take no time at all. They don't literally scream for half an hour. Cell has nuked while cities for fun I don't see a problem with him tossing one blast without a word and nuking most your team. You are using horrible arguments that logically make no sense. You've lost.

However there is still the combined lesser abilities of my team to take into account.

Sylar with his Telekinesis, Sound manipulation, Electric manipulation, and Disintegration, combined with Sepheroths Magics, which come in everything from exceedingly strong Shields to dropping a Huge Meteor on the enemies heads. Tartarus's Gravity Hammer and Revan's Force, and DOOM's all of the above. All enough together to easily deflect and or block a Ki blast from Cell, unless he takes the time to power up. Doing so would get him killed by at least three of my fighters that are fighting him (I am not counting Horus or Buu as they are fighting Vegito and winning against him)

Besides, Like EVERYONE in DBZ they ALWAYS have AT LEAST one thing to say before they pummel their targets. That is when my team would strike.

DOOM takes over his body = Win for me
Sylar Disintegrates him = Win for me
Revan and Seph Slow and then hack away at him with Haste cast on themselves = Win for me


Hell the only one that can't do anything in this fight to win is Tartarus...


Cell wouldn't find any fun with fighting them. If anything, He would try and fight Buu before Vegito or even ask Vegito if he could (After Killing the rest of your team.)

Like I said, he would be board, and to relieve his boredom he would play around with his targets in his sadistic ways. Maybe even attempt to monologue them to death, telling them all that once he destroys them he will find their homes and destroy it as well, etc. etc.


You also have to take into account that minutes in the Anime is less than seconds our time.

But are they? I never see explosions happen in super slow motion... Franky your Time analysis is unfounded and unsupported.

#163 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 03:56 AM

However there is still the combined lesser abilities of my team to take into account.

Sylar with his Telekinesis, Sound manipulation, Electric manipulation, and Disintegration, combined with Sepheroths Magics, which come in everything from exceedingly strong Shields to dropping a Huge Meteor on the enemies heads. Tartarus's Gravity Hammer and Revan's Force, and DOOM's all of the above. All enough together to easily deflect and or block a Ki blast from Cell, unless he takes the time to power up. Doing so would get him killed by at least three of my fighters that are fighting him (I am not counting Horus or Buu as they are fighting Vegito and winning against him)

Besides, Like EVERYONE in DBZ they ALWAYS have AT LEAST one thing to say before they pummel their targets. That is when my team would strike.

DOOM takes over his body = Win for me
Sylar Disintegrates him = Win for me
Revan and Seph Slow and then hack away at him with Haste cast on themselves = Win for me


Hell the only one that can't do anything in this fight to win is Tartarus...



Like I said, he would be board, and to relieve his boredom he would play around with his targets in his sadistic ways. Maybe even attempt to monologue them to death, telling them all that once he destroys them he will find their homes and destroy it as well, etc. etc.



But are they? I never see explosions happen in super slow motion... Franky your Time analysis is unfounded and unsupported.

again cell nuked cities with flick of the wris at super speed said nothing.

#164 Skirmisher

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 04:01 AM

again cell nuked cities with flick of the wris at super speed said nothing.

Yet he wasn't fighting anyone in those cities. He's fighting people here and now, and since Vegito has taken "the only real challenge" in this fight, he will be bored, and will either leave to find more entertainment (which he can't as he's force to stay here for the fight) or he will play with the only game he has... and as the villain he is, he will talk and monologue and he will fall head first into their trap.

#165 Skirmisher

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 04:03 AM

But like I said, Cell is going to have to power up to actually kill any of them as combined they would have the power to actually stand up to one of Cells weaker Ki blasts.

#166 Skirmisher

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 05:36 AM

First Revan

Revan will have already gone into Force Speed. Which will have been amped up with Sephs Haste Magic, which would make him at least Z-Fighter Fast.

"The increased speed of the Force-user enabled them to see the world and the entities around them in slow motion, allowing them to dodge attacks easily and attack quicker with greater accuracy."

This will allow him to get Force Plague off on Cell, well before he can talk or generally move about to either kill them all or to crap out little Cells.

"This power clouded the target's mind, causing them to slow down both mentally and physically. It was the milder version of three poison-inspiring Force powers, the other ones being Force Affliction and Force Plague. Practitioners of this power included the Jedi Knight Juhani.

Force Affliction was a variant of Force Slow. Affliction worked much like a fast-acting poison, quickly debilitating the target. The effects of affliction worsened over time and may cause death if the user is strong enough in the Force.

Force Plague was a more powerful version of Force Affliction. Plague worked like a fast-acting toxin, horribly debilitating its victims. The effects of Plague continued to worsen over time. Darth Traya and Darth Nihilus attempted to use this technique against the Jedi Exile."


I draw your attention to the fact that Revan has been described as more powerful in the ways of the force than Darth Nihilus. So it would be a simple thing for him to do this, and with his power and Cells lack of defense at countering the Force he would easily fall prey to it. This would Slow him to a Crawl.



Then Sepheroth steps into the fight.

Since Cell is now at about Human level speed, Sephs Insane speed would look just like that to Cell. And here is where Seph casts Slow or he casts Stop on Cell, and Literally Freezes him in place, or at least makes him as slow as a slug...


Enter DOOM!

This gives Dr. Doom the time to start Siphoning all of Cells Ki out of him, and since Countering Ki absorption requires at least a modicum of awareness to initiate the proper techniques to counter he will fail to stop Doom, who would succeed regardless of Cells resistance.

Posted Image


Cell then Dies as DOOM unleashes All of the Stolen Ki AND his own Magic and Technological devices to utterly annihilate Cell. Sylar mops up by Disintigrating whatever is left of Cell, and then Scrubbing the area down with massive amounts of Lighting and then transmuting the spot where Cell died and everything in it to some other substance, just to Make damn well sure that Cell would never come back...


But wait... My team has no foreknowledge of your team, right? You can thank Tzeentch and Horus' Telepathy for gicing me forewarning of the two fighters they would have to face... Most of my team is Smart enough to actually work together to accomplish a common goal against really steep odds. Buu has Piccolos Mind, Horus is both smart and has Tzeentch, Doom... nuff said, Sylar has his Intuitive Aptitude that allows him to see the patterns and make plans, he would know to follow them, Revan is also smart being the Greatest Sith ever... When you pick Villains for a team, they have to be Smart to work together, or else you get a disorganized mob that looses...


Meanwhile, Buu + Horus = Dead Vegito.


And then Like I have said All Along... My Team wins, Flawless Victory.

#167 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 11:34 AM

First Revan

Revan will have already gone into Force Speed. Which will have been amped up with Sephs Haste Magic, which would make him at least Z-Fighter Fast.

"The increased speed of the Force-user enabled them to see the world and the entities around them in slow motion, allowing them to dodge attacks easily and attack quicker with greater accuracy."

This will allow him to get Force Plague off on Cell, well before he can talk or generally move about to either kill them all or to crap out little Cells.

"This power clouded the target's mind, causing them to slow down both mentally and physically. It was the milder version of three poison-inspiring Force powers, the other ones being Force Affliction and Force Plague. Practitioners of this power included the Jedi Knight Juhani.

Force Affliction was a variant of Force Slow. Affliction worked much like a fast-acting poison, quickly debilitating the target. The effects of affliction worsened over time and may cause death if the user is strong enough in the Force.

Force Plague was a more powerful version of Force Affliction. Plague worked like a fast-acting toxin, horribly debilitating its victims. The effects of Plague continued to worsen over time. Darth Traya and Darth Nihilus attempted to use this technique against the Jedi Exile."


I draw your attention to the fact that Revan has been described as more powerful in the ways of the force than Darth Nihilus. So it would be a simple thing for him to do this, and with his power and Cells lack of defense at countering the Force he would easily fall prey to it. This would Slow him to a Crawl.



Then Sepheroth steps into the fight.

Since Cell is now at about Human level speed, Sephs Insane speed would look just like that to Cell. And here is where Seph casts Slow or he casts Stop on Cell, and Literally Freezes him in place, or at least makes him as slow as a slug...


Enter DOOM!

This gives Dr. Doom the time to start Siphoning all of Cells Ki out of him, and since Countering Ki absorption requires at least a modicum of awareness to initiate the proper techniques to counter he will fail to stop Doom, who would succeed regardless of Cells resistance.

Posted Image


Cell then Dies as DOOM unleashes All of the Stolen Ki AND his own Magic and Technological devices to utterly annihilate Cell. Sylar mops up by Disintigrating whatever is left of Cell, and then Scrubbing the area down with massive amounts of Lighting and then transmuting the spot where Cell died and everything in it to some other substance, just to Make damn well sure that Cell would never come back...


But wait... My team has no foreknowledge of your team, right? You can thank Tzeentch and Horus' Telepathy for gicing me forewarning of the two fighters they would have to face... Most of my team is Smart enough to actually work together to accomplish a common goal against really steep odds. Buu has Piccolos Mind, Horus is both smart and has Tzeentch, Doom... nuff said, Sylar has his Intuitive Aptitude that allows him to see the patterns and make plans, he would know to follow them, Revan is also smart being the Greatest Sith ever... When you pick Villains for a team, they have to be Smart to work together, or else you get a disorganized mob that looses...


Meanwhile, Buu + Horus = Dead Vegito.


And then Like I have said All Along... My Team wins, Flawless Victory.

Okay Skirm, this fight analysis will be realistic and in character.

True Buu attacks Vegito first that I can't deny. It's the rest of your crap I have problem with. All your slowing/*insensitivity*/diserngration tactics require a thought, being FTL Cell must think at FTL to accomodate for those speeds keep in mind this is Super Perfect Cell. Second Form Cell was able to bust large islands without charging his attacks. Super Perfect Cell is so much stronger it's not not even funny. and this beind Superfect Cell he would choose the blast the weaklings without a word as they are not worth any just to get rid of distractions to proving his perfection. In reality Cell could most likely cook up a planet buster without charging. That's something you given no evidence anyone other than Buu can tank.

#168 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 11:59 AM

Skirmisher, I have nothing against you I know this your assigned stance. I don't even care who "wins" these debates; hell, the only reason I'm still bothering with this is because of my fellow DBZ debaters' nonexsistant debating skills. All they seem to be is woefully helpless zombies that hang on my every word. I'm pulling out, these guys need to learn to fend for themselves and not make me do all the hard work.

#169 I_KNOW_ALL

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 02:05 PM

It looks like I'll have to take care of everything now...

#170 I_KNOW_ALL

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 02:19 PM

The thing is, Cell would just destroy your guys because he wouldn't have any fun fighting or torturing them. Cell defeated the entire army with out little effort, and all though he didn't go full power, he didn't play with them either. I'm sure he was bored then.

After that, Vegtio takes Buu and well you know how that ends.

#171 Skirmisher

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 03:26 PM

Okay Skirm, this fight analysis will be realistic and in character.

True Buu attacks Vegito first that I can't deny. It's the rest of your crap I have problem with. All your slowing/*insensitivity*/diserngration tactics require a thought, being FTL Cell must think at FTL to accomodate for those speeds keep in mind this is Super Perfect Cell. Second Form Cell was able to bust large islands without charging his attacks. Super Perfect Cell is so much stronger it's not not even funny. and this beind Superfect Cell he would choose the blast the weaklings without a word as they are not worth any just to get rid of distractions to proving his perfection. In reality Cell could most likely cook up a planet buster without charging. That's something you given no evidence anyone other than Buu can tank.

However, I once again say that I disagree with your statement that Cell is FTL. He could be High Mach (at most) but even Talented Human Level Reflexes could cope with those speeds. However do to the fact that he's not a fighter jet, or a shuttle pilot... and has to fight at those speeds, So he would probably have Reflexes at most 100x faster. I would put these guys here at Micro Second Reaction times [so that should be around 0.001 seconds]... But nothing more.

Then we introduce Revan. A very Talented Human, as such he would probably have natural reflexes of 0.150 seconds and with the intense training of both the Sith and the Jedi orders, that could at least go as low as 0.100 seconds... Add in Force Speed, which IIRC was about a x10 to x40 improvement in Speed and reaction levels would drop this down to 0.0025 (x40 since he's a talented master, and he's giving his all) AND THEN thrown on Haste which almost doubles the characters Speed Stats, and would put Revan into the Reaction times of 0.00125 seconds. Which would make Cell only very slightly faster...

But then there's Battle Precognition!

"Battle Precognition was a variant of precognition that allowed one to sense the flows of the Force and anticipate an opponent's moves, increasing reaction time in combat."


And this would put his Reaction times in the Range of Cell...

But then you have to factor in the fact that Cell still has to react to My Team, he would still have to See them, and then Judge them, all of them, and this will in fact Delay him to a point where Revans Reaction Time Overtakes his own!

And that would mean that Out of the Gate, at the start of the fight, Revan will definitely be able to get off a Force Slow, or one of the greater abilities in that program of Force Skill... and that would wreck Cells reaction times, and allow the others to get their Slowing Magics off and Slow Cell even more...


Skirmisher, I have nothing against you I know this your assigned stance. I don't even care who "wins" these debates; hell, the only reason I'm still bothering with this is because of my fellow DBZ debaters' nonexsistant debating skills. All they seem to be is woefully helpless zombies that hang on my every word. I'm pulling out, these guys need to learn to fend for themselves and not make me do all the hard work.

It's hard finding good Talent... But that Datasnake was a tough one to crack, too bad I had to crack him, I liked his math...


The thing is, Cell would just destroy your guys because he wouldn't have any fun fighting or torturing them. Cell defeated the entire army with out little effort, and all though he didn't go full power, he didn't play with them either. I'm sure he was bored then.

After that, Vegtio takes Buu and well you know how that ends.

The thing is that I am going with Quick Draw now, I don't need Cell to go Slow and Passive on my characters anymore. But the thing is that that would still be one of the things that would pass through his head when considering what to do with my characters, and even that thought alone would slow him down.

#172 I_KNOW_ALL

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 03:33 PM

The thing is that I am going with Quick Draw now, I don't need Cell to go Slow and Passive on my characters anymore. But the thing is that that would still be one of the things that would pass through his head when considering what to do with my characters, and even that thought alone would slow him down.



I doubt Cell would need to think about it, as a talented fighter as he is, he just shoots a simple ki blast and is done with allyour team aside form Kid Buu.

#173 Skirmisher

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 03:41 PM

I doubt Cell would need to think about it, as a talented fighter as he is, he just shoots a simple ki blast and is done with allyour team aside form Kid Buu.

All action requires Thought and Reaction.

Cell does not know ahead of time what my fighters would look like or even what they are capable of... He doesn't have anyone telling him what the Future is like...

Cell would then have to make a Judgment call on who he thinks would be a threat, or if he should just nuke the lot of them with one Ki blast.

he then still has to gather the energy for that blast, and although it doesn't look like that much time to us, for people with Reaction Times in the Microsecond range it is nearly an eternity...

Revan will have gotten a Slow off right out of the Gate and that would make Cell think again. It would disrupt his attack as he wonders who is doing this attack and then he will take a look at my fighters to identify the threat and how best to procede against the threat. More than likely if he does Identify Revan as the source of the attack, he would easily have the power to just nuke him then and there, but by that time Seph and Doom will have Slowed him down EVEN MORE and at that time all of that Thinking and Reacting will be happening as what would be to Us a snails pace. Regular People like Tartarus and Sylar would be able to easily Speed Blitz Cell at that point, and DOOM would be Stealing all of Cells Ki, thereby making it impossible for him to generate a Ki Nuke to kill my team.

In the end, Cell goes down Hard, and Fast, as my Team Speed Blitzes him.

#174 treacherous

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 03:43 PM

You guys (DBZ debate group) are acting as if Skirmisher is getting stomped by you, but in all reality, he's making great points. He has an extremely smart team. You guys are forgetting one thing...

DOOM!

Doom's expertise permits him to detect the considerable cloaking magicks of the Hood, and predicting in advance the teleportation of a god, from Secret Invasion: Dark Reign #1.

Doom's appearance in Dark Avengers also revealed quite a bit about his sorcery: although ambushed by a prepped Morgana Le Fay, Dr. Doom is able to briefly hold his own for a time; apparently, Dr. Doom can use time travel with not just his machines, but his magic too when he banishes Morgana Le Fay to prehistoric ages; and transference spells capable of turning a god into stone are "simple" ones and easily reversed by Doom, from Dark Avengers #2 and 4.

Scary stuff really. Doom could transport Gogeta to the stone age and would already be aware of this fight.

Don't make me provide scans. I can provide scans. I back up my stuff.

#175 treacherous

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 03:47 PM

I see Doom disappearing into the astral plane (Can't *fake word* he who is not there) and while there, he senses who doesn't have a magical Dragonball on him and teleports that one person to the center of the prehistoric period. One down, one to go.


Doom sending LeFay to the past. See, Marvel Man isn't the only one who can quickly provide scans.
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Posted Image

#176 Zreth

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 03:47 PM

First Revan

Revan will have already gone into Force Speed. Which will have been amped up with Sephs Haste Magic, which would make him at least Z-Fighter Fast.

"The increased speed of the Force-user enabled them to see the world and the entities around them in slow motion, allowing them to dodge attacks easily and attack quicker with greater accuracy."

This will allow him to get Force Plague off on Cell, well before he can talk or generally move about to either kill them all or to crap out little Cells.

"This power clouded the target's mind, causing them to slow down both mentally and physically. It was the milder version of three poison-inspiring Force powers, the other ones being Force Affliction and Force Plague. Practitioners of this power included the Jedi Knight Juhani.

Force Affliction was a variant of Force Slow. Affliction worked much like a fast-acting poison, quickly debilitating the target. The effects of affliction worsened over time and may cause death if the user is strong enough in the Force.

Force Plague was a more powerful version of Force Affliction. Plague worked like a fast-acting toxin, horribly debilitating its victims. The effects of Plague continued to worsen over time. Darth Traya and Darth Nihilus attempted to use this technique against the Jedi Exile."


I draw your attention to the fact that Revan has been described as more powerful in the ways of the force than Darth Nihilus. So it would be a simple thing for him to do this, and with his power and Cells lack of defense at countering the Force he would easily fall prey to it. This would Slow him to a Crawl.



Then Sepheroth steps into the fight.

Since Cell is now at about Human level speed, Sephs Insane speed would look just like that to Cell. And here is where Seph casts Slow or he casts Stop on Cell, and Literally Freezes him in place, or at least makes him as slow as a slug...


Enter DOOM!

This gives Dr. Doom the time to start Siphoning all of Cells Ki out of him, and since Countering Ki absorption requires at least a modicum of awareness to initiate the proper techniques to counter he will fail to stop Doom, who would succeed regardless of Cells resistance.

Posted Image


Cell then Dies as DOOM unleashes All of the Stolen Ki AND his own Magic and Technological devices to utterly annihilate Cell. Sylar mops up by Disintigrating whatever is left of Cell, and then Scrubbing the area down with massive amounts of Lighting and then transmuting the spot where Cell died and everything in it to some other substance, just to Make damn well sure that Cell would never come back...


But wait... My team has no foreknowledge of your team, right? You can thank Tzeentch and Horus' Telepathy for gicing me forewarning of the two fighters they would have to face... Most of my team is Smart enough to actually work together to accomplish a common goal against really steep odds. Buu has Piccolos Mind, Horus is both smart and has Tzeentch, Doom... nuff said, Sylar has his Intuitive Aptitude that allows him to see the patterns and make plans, he would know to follow them, Revan is also smart being the Greatest Sith ever... When you pick Villains for a team, they have to be Smart to work together, or else you get a disorganized mob that looses...


Meanwhile, Buu + Horus = Dead Vegito.


And then Like I have said All Along... My Team wins, Flawless Victory.

I'm going to flick out a flaw in your plan and tell you that sephirtoh would not demean himself to using those types of materia since they would take away the challenge of a battle and it is also not in his regular arsenal.

#177 Zreth

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 03:49 PM

Hey, treach am I going up against Skirm or not?

#178 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 03:51 PM

Hey, treach am I going up against Skirm or not?

I say you should I_KNOW_ALL can't come up with an new argument, he's just relying on what I left him.

#179 Skirmisher

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 03:52 PM

I'm going to flick out a flaw in your plan and tell you that sephirtoh would not demean himself to using those types of materia since they would take away the challenge of a battle and it is also not in his regular arsenal.

Doesn't matter, it only give me a x2 boost to speed anyway, and with Revans Precog + Surprise = Revan being Faster than Cell out of the gate, without even needing Haste.

#180 I_KNOW_ALL

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 03:57 PM

I say you should I_KNOW_ALL can't come up with an new argument, he's just relying on what I left him.



How do you figure?

I'm actually doing research on the character... something you apparently don't know how to do.




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