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Who Could take down an all-out team of Akuma, Kenpachi Zaraki, and Brolly?


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#21 Skirmisher

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 08:51 PM

Just pointing it out that the Bardock Special is Canon, stated by the "Word of God" rule.

That means that Bardock did get clairvoyance and Freiza did blow up Planet Vageta while laughing from his tiny chair...

#22 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 08:54 PM

Just pointing it out that the Bardock Special is Canon, stated by the "Word of God" rule.

That means that Bardock did get clairvoyance and Freiza did blow up Planet Vageta while laughing from his tiny chair...

Some people argue that, I was just making it clear. Technically Bardock was added to the manga after the movie came out and is therfore canon but people still dispute it...

#23 I_KNOW_ALL

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 08:58 PM

So can I, with a nice essay I've cooked up, which also helps prove the powers of DBZ characters.

Note: In this essay Movie 8, 9, 10 and the Bardock special will be treated as canon.

First let's start with the destruction of Planet Vegeta, has seen here. In this clip first form Frieza with absolutely no effort destroy a planet presumably much larger than Earth.

In the Namek Saga Vegeta matches that same Frieza blow for blow and makes him try. This is only a short time after the battle on Earth and though he had two zenkai (One from the Earth battle, one from Zarbon.) this gives evidence to support this claim

Now if First from Frieza and Saiyan saga Vegeta are planet busters than Final form Frieza and your basic Super Saiyan are well into the multi-planet busting range.

Now let's move to the Cell Saga/Movie 8. In the first 30 seconds of this clip, (The only important part.) We see the destruction of the South Galaxy, note that the destruction is constantly moving in all directions signifying a single blast. This was caused by Broly the main enemy of Movie 8 with his power restricted.

Later Brolly Transforms in a Legendary Super Saiyan as seen here. This transformation may give you deja vu even if you haven't seen this movie. Why, maybe because Marai Trunks did it too. That's right, pupiless eyes and bulging muscles, Trunks looks a lot like Broly before regaining control. Trunks proceeds to fight on Even terms with a Perfect Cell. However Brolly is much stronger than Perfect Cell but nowhere near the power of Super Perfect Cell or a Super Saiyan 2.

Evidence for this claim? Goku's Warp Kamehameha against Perfect Cell blew the Bio-Android in half, an attack of similar power and proximity did nothing to Broly. This puts LSSJ Broly well above Perfect Cell but as I said he is not at SS2 level. The same Z fighters Brolly dominated were manhandled by the Cell Jrs. and an SSJ2 Gohan did did this to the Cell Jrs. If Brolly was on an SSJ2 level he would've have done that to the Z fighters. Later when Cell returns in his Super Perfect Form and is able to match Gohan, making him stronger than Broly.

Many argue that Broly beat a Super Saiyan 2 Gohan in movie 10. Here is Gohan's Movie 10 transformation. One key element of A Super Saiyan 2 Transformation is missing from this scene: the aura lightning. Gohan has this aura lightning every time his becomes an SS2, like the World Tournament. Now you might say that Movie 10 was just a movie and mistake are bound to be made but I point you to Gohan's Movie 9 transformatoin here we clearly see the lighting associated with Super Saiyan 2, unlike Movie 10. They got it right in Movie 9, why wouldn't they have the the lightning in Movie 10. Therefore Gohan never fought Broly as a SS2. There you have it SS2>>Broly.


Why thank you.

Is that enough for you Akuma?

#24 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 09:04 PM

Why thank you.

Is that enough for you Akuma?

I actually have more, taking it through the Buu saga but it's off topic in this case.

#25 Marvel Man

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 09:11 PM

Note: In this essay Movie 8, 9, 10 and the Bardock special will be treated as canon.


But they're not...

Though techincally...

Brolly would destroy the Fantastic Four..

The Fantastic Four outsmarted and tricked Galactus into leaving Earth...

So.

Brolly > FF > Galactus. B)

Ha! FF beat Galactus because they used the Ultimate Nullifier. This thing could kill everything in the DBZ Universe with one blast.

Besides, it's

FF > Plot Device > Brolly

B)

#26 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 09:16 PM

But they're not...


Ha! FF beat Galactus because they used the Ultimate Nullifier. This thing could kill everything in the DBZ Universe with one blast.

Besides, it's

FF > Plot Device > Brolly

B)

Realisitically it's Galactus >>> Broly>>>>> FF

In canon: FF + Character Shield + Plot Device > Galactus >>> Broly

#27 Skirmisher

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 09:17 PM

Besides, it's

FF > Plot Device > Brolly

B)

But wait, since they had to use a Plot Device (The ultimate Nullifier) then that would mean that they have stooped to the same level as that Plot Device...

So FF = Plot Device > Brolly

#28 I_KNOW_ALL

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 09:20 PM

But they're not...


Ha! FF beat Galactus because they used the Ultimate Nullifier. This thing could kill everything in the DBZ Universe with one blast.

Besides, it's

FF > Plot Device > Brolly

B)


Two different times my friend.. two different times.

#29 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 09:22 PM

But they're not...

Wrong. When discussing Broly, which we were Movies 8 and 10 are canon. The Bardock Special is always canon, I put that not in there as a safety net and Movie 9 fits flawlessly into the timeline and as it does not contradict any canon material can be treated as canon.

#30 AKUMA

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 09:23 PM

Why thank you.

Is that enough for you Akuma?

not quite, because some of the things in nesh's statement arent entirely acurrate.
plus i looked on the DBZ wiki and it shows LSSJ to be above SS2 in the list of SS from weakest to strongest...strongest being SS4 but u know how that goes......

but im not sure how accurate wiki is either although they seem to be accurate in all other area's.....

so we'll see, if catnips says the same thing then ill believe it for sure....

#31 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 09:33 PM

not quite, because some of the things in nesh's statement arent entirely acurrate.
plus i looked on the DBZ wiki and it shows LSSJ to be above SS2 in the list of SS from weakest to strongest...strongest being SS4 but u know how that goes......

but im not sure how accurate wiki is either although they seem to be accurate in all other area's.....

so we'll see, if catnips says the same thing then ill believe it for sure....

And what would be inaccurate about my statements?

#32 AKUMA

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 09:47 PM

And what would be inaccurate about my statements?

he statement u made about the gohan and the cell jr's, u said if ss2 gohan could destroy the cell jrs with a kick and punch that explodes there bodies, how come broly couldnt do that to the z fighters...

well broly was toying with them, 1,

2, brolys pure saiyan so he has the erge to fight for sheer enjoyment so why would he just take them out that easily. Broly's methods of fighting and gohan's methods are totally different.gohan's only half saiyan.

Broly destroyed an entire galaxy so why didnt he just destroy the planet they were fighting on...

besides SS2 isnt far from LSSJ, IF SS2 is infact greater. goku's power as SS was more than frieza's at 100max yet they still fought dead even...

and i think there ws one more but i have to read it again...

#33 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 10:03 PM

he statement u made about the gohan and the cell jr's, u said if ss2 gohan could destroy the cell jrs with a kick and punch that explodes there bodies, how come broly couldnt do that to the z fighters...

well broly was toying with them, 1,

2, brolys pure saiyan so he has the erge to fight for sheer enjoyment so why would he just take them out that easily. Broly's methods of fighting and gohan's methods are totally different.gohan's only half saiyan.

Broly destroyed an entire galaxy so why didnt he just destroy the planet they were fighting on...

besides SS2 isnt far from LSSJ, IF SS2 is infact greater. goku's power as SS was more than frieza's at 100max yet they still fought dead even...

and i think there ws one more but i have to read it again...

Brolly was obsessed with killing Goku and anyone who got in his way with his own two hand, he had the intent as did Gohan so if he was in SS2 range he would've one's shotted Goku and co. This also explains why Brolly didn't destroy the planet. The mere fact that Broly couldn't do to the Z fighters what Gohan did to the Cell Jrs. shows that he's nowhere near SS2.

#34 AKUMA

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 10:12 PM

Brolly was obsessed with killing Goku and anyone who got in his way with his own two hand, he had the intent as did Gohan so if he was in SS2 range he would've one's shotted Goku and co. This also explains why Brolly didn't destroy the planet. The mere fact that Broly couldn't do to the Z fighters what Gohan did to the Cell Jrs. shows that he's nowhere near SS2.

so can broly defeat the cell jr's?

#35 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 10:19 PM

so can broly defeat the cell jr's?

He could, just not as easily as Gohan did.

#36 I_KNOW_ALL

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 10:20 PM

so can broly defeat the cell jr's?



Yes.

#37 AKUMA

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 11:13 PM

Alright, i was wrong, Nuan says SS2 is stronger so okay then no biggie...

#38 catnips47

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 11:30 PM

Evidence for this claim? Goku's Warp Kamehameha against Perfect Cell blew the Bio-Android in half, an attack of similar power and proximity did nothing to Broly. This puts LSSJ Broly well above Perfect Cell but as I said he is not at SS2 level. The same Z fighters Brolly dominated were manhandled by the Cell Jrs. and an SSJ2 Gohan did did this to the Cell Jrs. If Brolly was on an SSJ2 level he would've have done that to the Z fighters. Later when Cell returns in his Super Perfect Form and is able to match Gohan, making him stronger than Broly.

Many argue that Broly beat a Super Saiyan 2 Gohan in movie 10. Here is Gohan's Movie 10 transformation. One key element of A Super Saiyan 2 Transformation is missing from this scene: the aura lightning. Gohan has this aura lightning every time his becomes an SS2, like the World Tournament. Now you might say that Movie 10 was just a movie and mistake are bound to be made but I point you to Gohan's Movie 9 transformatoin here we clearly see the lighting associated with Super Saiyan 2, unlike Movie 10. They got it right in Movie 9, why wouldn't they have the the lightning in Movie 10. Therefore Gohan never fought Broly as a SS2. There you have it SS2>>Broly.


LSSBroly is stronger than a ssj2. I put him roughly on par with fat buu - and then keeps growing stronger.

At SSJ broly took a kick to the neck and a large ki - blast to his unprotected back by a ultra ssj vegeta, without even noticing. Perfect cell flinched a little from a kick he saw comming.
Now take into account that Broly can get 50x(minimum) stronger than this.

I think your severely underestimating how impressive it is to walk away from a kamehamaha of that magnitude an not even be slightly scratched. I think it's pretty obvious that the power of it was enormous and also very concentrated, due to only the upper body being destroyed (presumably because goku thought that as long as the brain cells were destroyed, the fight was over). It shattered cell's upper body like glass and dispersed it. Broly, not only takes the full brunt of the damage unscathed, but he actually walks towards, without breaking stride, an extremely powerful attack. Cooler had to fly at high speed to pull of a similar manoeuvre.

Your forgetting that whilst the cell jr's could hurt the Z fighters, the Z fighters could also hurt them. Piccolo, trunks, vegeta even tien and yamcha.
However, A fresh piccolo and a rejuvenated goku (who consumed a senzu) weren't even effecting broly as they peppered him with strikes.
I agree with Akuma
It would take a ssj3 goku to finish off Broly. And as Akuma was saying, Broly was toying with them, he wanted to humiliate Kakarot and embarrass him, other wise he would have just killed him instantly and only attacked him. However, he also attacked everyone else for and threatened to kill gohan in front of him.

The aura lightning is not a valid reason.

Gotenks ssj3 fought super buu - no lightning

Goku ssj3 fought super buu - no lightning

Goku ssj2 fought Kid buu - no lightning

Goku transformed into a ssj3 - no lightning

Goku ssj3 fought Kid buu - no lightning

Vegeta SSJ 2 fought (.....) kid buu - no lightning.

Goku ssj3 fought hirudergarn - no lightning.

Meanwhile

Goku has a lightning aura in his base form in the final episode

So based on that fact it's just as easy to say that not only did Broly fight evenly with a ssj2, he gained the upper hand, whilst in an extremely weakened condition.

However, even if your essay was correct, it would still be wrong. By pigeon holing Broly between Perfect Cell and SSJ 2 you have automatically given Broly the win. You yourself believe broly is much,much stronger than perfect cell, making him, logically marginally weaker than a ssj2. You would have to start off MUCH stronger than broly to defeat him as his power grows continuously. It wouldn't be long before he was gaining the upper hand against a ssj2. Goku or otherwise (assuming he was weaker - I don't think he is)

#39 catnips47

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 11:32 PM

Alright, i was wrong, Nuan says SS2 is stronger so okay then no biggie...


Actually, we both saw that message over his house earlier. We decided goku could defeat Broly as a SSJ2 AFTER the 10 years training gap.

#40 AKUMA

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 11:37 PM

Actually, we both saw that message over his house earlier. We decided goku could defeat Broly as a SSJ2 AFTER the 10 years training gap.

oh really, Lol yea i just finish talkin with nuan..




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