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American masses and their bad taste


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#21 Red_Dragon

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 06:11 PM

1. Are we sure that we just aren't just paying more attention to the bad stuff? I'm sure if we went back in time to the 80s or so we would find a crapton of terrible music and movies. We see the good stuff from the 80s and wonder why there aren't more good movies nowadays, not realizing that we either forget, ignore, or missed the bad stuff.

 

2. It's possible that it has something to do with more mediums being around nowadays. There was television, there were movies, there was talk radio, and there was music. Compare it to now. 

 

The number of television channels has skyrocketed, so the individual channels have stiffer competition. They can't take as many big risks with there shows, so you might get one good new show a year.

 

For  movies, I hate to say this, but the stars are gone. Aside from Johnny Depp, no one can guarantee that seats get filled. Look at the action movies, who are the big name action stars that appear in franchise after franchise? You have Depp(is the action-comedian), somehow Channing Tatum, Robert Downey Jr (who I admit is doing well), I think the guy who plays Thor, Chris Hemsworth (who I had to look up the name of), might become the must have action star if he gets a good movie. And let's be fair, the average comedy has always played to the least common denominator. I don't do romances, so I can't speak to that front. But the end result is that movies have to play it safe 

 

Radio has mostly disappeared, though, so -1 medium.

 

The music industry is actually hurting, so safe, generic, and vapid music is kinda necessary to keep companies from going under. And no one is going to spearhead a change of pace under their conditions.

 

Video Games have started to rival the big industires. They had their time of rapid expansion and development. Look how fast they progressed, and how quickly new genres sprang up. How long did it take television to do that same amount of development? There problem is that it is so much harder to build a game from the ground up then a movie, so once a company gets a solid franchise, that franchise has to pay for all the other projects the studio undertakes. Some of them do well, some bomb. Some are new and innovative, some are just retreading the same ground. I think bad video game industry has been overblown just a bit, though it definitely got really corrupt really fast, or just plain lazy. You choose.

 

Now for the internet, the Ultimate Contender of Mediums. That place where you can go to watch movies, television shows, listen to music, and download games, all for free. Now I love the internet, but the fact that it can compete on nearly all levels with nearly every medium is hurting entertainment in general. It means the mediums that have to pay for crap have to compete with something that will just show off old, successful stuff since it doesn't need to sustain itself. And the old guard can't just show off old victories and hope they can stay afloat that way.

 

Personally, I like having hard copies. I don't have an e-reader. I'm a console gamer. I buy Blu-Ray discs, Dungeons and Dragons hardcover books, even CDs. I don't buy Steam Games, download music (like I-Tunes) or PDFs. And I'm a poor college student. If I want it, I save up for it and get it in the most concrete fashion I can, but I know most people aren't as vehemently against downloading things as I am. Like my friends. Even taking into account cheap prices like Steam Sales, the worth of the games, music, movies, etc that they download is around ten times as much as they actually pay for entertainment, and the objects they do buy are nondigital, like magic the gathering cards. Their digital library is essentially free. I know my friends and I are the two extreme ends of the spectrum, but I feel like most tech savvy people, a constantly increasing percentage, lean more towards my friends end of the spectrum than the middle.



#22 silversurfer092

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 06:18 PM

No, you guys just refuse to find the good music. It's not even that hard to find. Radiohead? Debatably the biggest rock band in the world. Check out The Bends if you like guitar rock. Check out OK Computer if you want your mind blown on how computers can actually make fantastic music, not just a bunch of beeps and shit like most people assume. You want some blow your face off rock? Check out Muse's early stuff, their late stuff can blow me. Arcade Fire's song Intervention will punch you in the face halfway through like no song from the 70's ever did. The Black Keys? They made blues music that Ike Turner and Robert Plant loved. With two men! The White Stripes were a big part of a giant rock movement doing the same thing. Two people with a drumkit and a guitar. WIlco and The National bring country-infused rock to the mainstream/rock audience that Willie Nelson only hoped to do. These are some of the biggest bands in the world and they can do things better than old rock bands can do. Here's another one. Debatably the greatest cover ever, "Hurt" by Johnny Cash. He covered a Nine Inch Nails song BECAUSE HE THOUGHT IT WAS AWESOME. Do I like the cover more than the original? Yeah, but I'm not a NiN fan to begin with. Muse covers Nina Simone's "Feeling Good", puts it to rock standards, and comes out with a fantastical song.

 

This is coming from a kid who grew up on classic rock. The only CD we had in the car was Jethro Tull's Greatest Hits and I loved that CD. Listened to it all the time. That doesn't mean I kept my tastes defined by "only from the 70's". I actually went out and found music. You guys wanna keep being ignorant about music, then keep not looking for bands. But don't throw that "music nowadays sucks" bullshit around. Because you're wrong. You're just lazy.



#23 silversurfer092

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 06:27 PM

The music industry is actually hurting, so safe, generic, and vapid music is kinda necessary to keep companies from going under. And no one is going to spearhead a change of pace under their conditions.

 

The music industry? Not even a little bit. The music production industry? It's dying, as it should. Why should Warner Bros. get such a gigantic chunk of money for something they barely had a part of? Yeah, pretty cool WB, you put a few tunes on a CD. Why is the band making the CD getting a good dollar or so for every CD sold? NO CLUE. Artists make their money through tours and merchandise sales. Guess what? Illegally downloading their CD's doesn't affect those sales at all. The music industry is doing just fine. If anything, illegally downloading can help. Radiohead said "fuck it, we're putting out In Rainbows for free. Pay what you feel it's worth". They also released it independently, which means they made all the money off the physical album sales. Between those two, it made them a shitton of money. So no, the music industry is not hurting. The music production industry is hurting because really, who needs it anymore anyway?



#24 Red_Dragon

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 06:58 PM

I will concede on the music end. Really don't keep up with it. I have some songs I like. That's enough. I take it music's just in a transition period then?



#25 force_echo

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 07:07 PM

Me and my dad were listening to NPR, and how some analyst thought that illegal and legal movie streaming avenues were destroying the business. Apparently studios used to bank a lot on DvD sales, which simply aren't there anymore, so they try to play it safe. I remember being ecstatic the first time a Bioshock movie was greenlit, it had a good director and writer who were really into the source material. It turns out they refused to take the rating of the movie below "R", so the studio smashed it because they weren't willing to take the risk. I don't know, maybe back then they would go through with it anyway.



#26 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 07:53 PM

 Look at the action movies, who are the big name action stars that appear in franchise after franchise?

 

Jeremy Renner.

 

SWAT, 28 Weeks Later, The Hurt Locker, Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol, Bourne Legacy, the Avengers and Hansel and Gretel, in which he plays an ex-SWAT member, a soldier, a soldier, a master infiltrator, an enhanced rogue agent, the world's greatest archer and a witch hunter, respectively. Not counting some possible up and comings.



#27 silversurfer092

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:03 PM

I will concede on the music end. Really don't keep up with it. I have some songs I like. That's enough. I take it music's just in a transition period then?

 

Music is always in a transition period. It's an evolving thing.



#28 bigballerju

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 09:49 PM

No, you guys just refuse to find the good music. It's not even that hard to find. Radiohead? Debatably the biggest rock band in the world. Check out The Bends if you like guitar rock. Check out OK Computer if you want your mind blown on how computers can actually make fantastic music, not just a bunch of beeps and shit like most people assume. You want some blow your face off rock? Check out Muse's early stuff, their late stuff can blow me. Arcade Fire's song Intervention will punch you in the face halfway through like no song from the 70's ever did. The Black Keys? They made blues music that Ike Turner and Robert Plant loved. With two men! The White Stripes were a big part of a giant rock movement doing the same thing. Two people with a drumkit and a guitar. WIlco and The National bring country-infused rock to the mainstream/rock audience that Willie Nelson only hoped to do. These are some of the biggest bands in the world and they can do things better than old rock bands can do. Here's another one. Debatably the greatest cover ever, "Hurt" by Johnny Cash. He covered a Nine Inch Nails song BECAUSE HE THOUGHT IT WAS AWESOME. Do I like the cover more than the original? Yeah, but I'm not a NiN fan to begin with. Muse covers Nina Simone's "Feeling Good", puts it to rock standards, and comes out with a fantastical song.

 

This is coming from a kid who grew up on classic rock. The only CD we had in the car was Jethro Tull's Greatest Hits and I loved that CD. Listened to it all the time. That doesn't mean I kept my tastes defined by "only from the 70's". I actually went out and found music. You guys wanna keep being ignorant about music, then keep not looking for bands. But don't throw that "music nowadays sucks" bullshit around. Because you're wrong. You're just lazy.

I'm talking new and mainstream music that gets the most attention that's horrible Surfer.  Surfer you have really only mentioned bands that have been around for years . For example Radiohead has been around since the late 1980's. Muse has been around since 1994. Hell even Arcade Fire and Black Keys have been around since 2001. That's 12 years. White Stripes has been since what like 1997 or 1998? They got popular in the early 2000's.  Your actually proving my point mentioning bands like that which are good and have been around a long time.  Mumford and Sons I'll give to you is a bit more recent since they have only been around since 2007. Even bands like Linkin Park, Disturbed, and more by now have been around for years. I hope you get my point.

 

 

Music is always in a transition period. It's an evolving thing.

 

This I agree with. 



#29 force_echo

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 09:58 AM

Jeremy Renner.

Jason Statham. Vin Diesel. The Rock. So many really. Like seriously, there are a shitton.



#30 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 12:57 PM

Mainstream is generally the same shit over and over.  I've pretty much given up on rap, because mainstream rappers all talk about the same subjects over and over.

 

There are good artists out there, you just need to look for them.  My city has some pretty good rock bands that play at bars all over.  I go to Datpiff.com to find good unsigned rap artists.

 

Then again, opinions are subjective, so it is really up to you to find what you like.



#31 Skirmisher

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:28 PM

"Mainstream" and what's "Popular" generally is utter garbage. It's not really the fault of the masses either. It's the psychotic corporate types that take what's cool, fun and unique, that appeals to people, and then tries to mass produce it for general consumption to make a buck. about 98% of the time these Mass Produced "Popular" "Mainstream" concepts are soulless filth, mostly because the people behind it don't have any Talent or Soul for what it is they're producing.

 

It's only the masses fault for not caring enough to say "Enough is enough!" about this stuff. They buy into it, because they think everyone else is buying into it. Or they see a phantom of what originally made the material good, within the crap they watch. Then there are the people who only watch these things to make themselves feel better. Because Everyone's family looks like Solid Gold next to Honey Booboo's family...

 

As a result, Garbage perpetuates.



#32 silversurfer092

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 03:53 PM

I'm talking new and mainstream music that gets the most attention that's horrible Surfer.  Surfer you have really only mentioned bands that have been around for years . For example Radiohead has been around since the late 1980's. Muse has been around since 1994. Hell even Arcade Fire and Black Keys have been around since 2001. That's 12 years. White Stripes has been since what like 1997 or 1998? They got popular in the early 2000's.  Your actually proving my point mentioning bands like that which are good and have been around a long time.  Mumford and Sons I'll give to you is a bit more recent since they have only been around since 2007. Even bands like Linkin Park, Disturbed, and more by now have been around for years. I hope you get my point.

 

 

 

This I agree with. 

 

A band may have started back then but are they still producing music now? Other than the White Stripes who disbanded in 2012, with Jack White (Read: the White Stripes) continuing on anyway, all those bands are still making music. What does that make them? MODERN BANDS. You say mainstream and getting attention. For fuck's sake, Arcade Fire WON ALBUM OF THE YEAR. How much more attention can they get from critics? Answer: none. Fun. had a chart-topping single (although that was one of the worst off that album) and I think won a Grammy for it. But if these are all old bands because they weren't formed in the year 2013, then isn't Katy Perry and Rihanna and all that stuff that you supposedly call modern shit also old?



#33 force_echo

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:23 PM

The fact that modern, mainstream rap is shit is without basis. You don't even have to LOOK. Macklemore songs are played on the radio almost constantly, songs from Yeezus and Holy Grail Magna Carta are on the radio as well. "Get Lucky" is a genuinely good song, that can easily lead someone to discovering cool electronica. "Radioactive" is a pretty good song too, and can get you into some genuinely good Alternative Rock. All of these songs are in the Billboard TOP TEN. I didn't even look past the FIRST TEN. So yes, the opinion that people can't find "good music" (which is ridiculously subjective in the first place) nowadays is just the attitude of old people hating new music on the simple virtue that they are new, which I find to be ridiculous.



#34 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:28 PM

The fact that modern, mainstream rap is shit is without basis. You don't even have to LOOK. Macklemore songs are played on the radio almost constantly, songs from Yeezus and Holy Grail Magna Carta are on the radio as well. "Get Lucky" is a genuinely good song, that can easily lead someone to discovering cool electronica. "Radioactive" is a pretty good song too, and can get you into some genuinely good Alternative Rock. All of these songs are in the Billboard TOP TEN. I didn't even look past the FIRST TEN. So yes, the opinion that people can't find "good music" (which is ridiculously subjective in the first place) nowadays is just the attitude of old people hating new music on the simple virtue that they are new, which I find to be ridiculous

 

I don't think I have heard anyone say "this music is too new so I don't like it" and shake their cane at it.  I don't like mainstream rap because generally, the theme of the songs are the same.

  

You listed 3 artists in a sea of shit.  IMO.



#35 force_echo

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:38 PM

And how many "bad" artists are there in this "sea of shit"? I didn't list any other rap artists, because there are no other rap artists on the radio. Songs from good albums like The Heist, Yeezus (despite this album not having any singles whatsoever), and Magna Carta are vastly outplaying everything else rap related. Yeah sure, there's some Rick Ross and Drake and Lil' Wayne way way way down there. But I've never even heard songs from them on the radio, they're definitely not on the Top 40. It seems like the bad music you're referring to isn't mainstream, quite the opposite, it's underground.



#36 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:49 PM

You really think Drake, Weezy, Jeezy, Minaj, Ross, Gucci Mane, T.I., Mac Miller, Wiz Khalifa, Snoop Dogg, Wacka Flocka, Wale, Flo Rida, Big Sean, Meek Mill, Kendrick Lamar,  A$AP Rocky(to name a few) are underground?

 

They all have been on the radio in the past 2 years, and there songs are all about: money, partying, drugs, cars, clothes, and banging women.  In truth they are capable of making songs that have real content to them like Weezys "How to Love", but in general there music is the same.  They have songs that sound good, but I am sick of hearing the same thing over and over.



#37 silversurfer092

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:49 PM

Singing about love was around way way way before the Beatles but no one really said "Oh shit, another band singing about love". I'm still of the position where if you're listening to music first and foremost for the lyrics, you're kind of doing it wrong. Icona Pop's "I Love It" isn't about partying at all, I'm pretty sure it's a breakup song, yet do you think anyone is gonna be like "Oh man, my boyfriend broke my heart. Time to eat ice cream and listen to Icona Pop?" Not even a little bit.



#38 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 06:26 PM

Singing about love is pretty general.  Literally the artists I listed say the exact same shit, just slightly different.

 

"I'm in the club, roll a blunt and smash a bitch"

 

"We at the bar, roll a fatty, fuck a hoe"

 

It is literally the same thing, just said differently.  To me, it takes more talent to write a song with good lyrics, rather than rely on a good beat to make the song.  There is no point in arguing opinions though.



#39 silversurfer092

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 06:30 PM

Singing about love is pretty general.  Literally the artists I listed say the exact same shit, just slightly different.

 

"I'm in the club, roll a blunt and smash a bitch"

 

"We at the bar, roll a fatty, fuck a hoe"

 

It is literally the same thing, just said differently.  To me, it takes more talent to write a song with good lyrics, rather than rely on a good beat to make the song.  There is no point in arguing opinions though.

 

I'd say for rappers, yeah. But I don't much listen to rap, so I have a different opinion on lyrics vs. music.



#40 force_echo

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 07:45 PM

You really think Drake, Weezy, Jeezy, Minaj, Ross, Gucci Mane, T.I., Mac Miller, Wiz Khalifa, Snoop Dogg, Wacka Flocka, Wale, Flo Rida, Big Sean, Meek Mill, Kendrick Lamar,  A$AP Rocky(to name a few) are underground?

 

They all have been on the radio in the past 2 years, and there songs are all about: money, partying, drugs, cars, clothes, and banging women.  In truth they are capable of making songs that have real content to them like Weezys "How to Love", but in general there music is the same.  They have songs that sound good, but I am sick of hearing the same thing over and over.

Yes, they are quite underground. None of those artists have hits on the Billboard Top 100. Out of those artists, the ones known for having radio singles in the past two years are probably Drake and Flo Rida. Also, saying that Kendrick Lamar is in a pool with generic rappers that only rap about weed, money, and loose women cements your position as someone who can't be bothered to even marginally get acquainted with an artist's body of work.






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