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#501 force_echo

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 10:00 PM

It would literally be impossible to make education free in the US and keep the Universities the way they are. The majority of Americans are dumb? I guess the smart people must be really smart then.



#502 Ruinus

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 11:40 PM

I've always wondered if there is any actual data on the "Americans are dumber than everyone!" idea that gets tossed about by non-Americans (and some Americans).



#503 silversurfer092

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:20 AM

There's the whole "Miss America doesn't know where Iraq is on a map" thing, but to be fair, the whole middle east thing confuses me too and I'm not half bad at geography.



#504 Ruinus

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 02:00 PM

Yeah, but I wonder if that's because Europeans base the average American's intelligence off of dumb shit people say on American TV and the inverse (Americans make fun of Europeans for dumb shit they say on European TV) isn't true because no one watches European TV.



#505 silversurfer092

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:33 PM

I watch European TV. The IT Club and the Inbetweeners are fantastic shows. The Europeans don't have much more to go off of besides what they see on TV.



#506 deojusto

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:22 PM

I'd assume our lower math, reading, and science rankings might have something to do with it.

http://www.infopleas.../A0923110.html 



#507 force_echo

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:06 PM

Interestingly enough, I have never taken one of those tests, nor have I heard about it, or know anyone who's heard about it or taken one. I've looked up copies of the test online, and it seems extraordinarily easy (then again, I don't know what grade level the test was supposed to be taken at).

 

Interestingly enough, I never hear about the fact that the US has the most research institutes in the world. Or the most patents. Or the fact that the US literally has a surplus of qualified scientists. It's always the fact that we're 27th in math or some statistic like that. It's a little odd. The reason is that the US has the best top students (in regards to the test) in the world, but the average is being dragged down by a bunch of not-so-high-scoring students.

 

Turns out that it's not as bad as people think.



#508 deojusto

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 05:46 PM

There's a difference between having a lack of scientists/universities/ patents and having a lack of general scientific knowledge in the populace. The US may hold the cream of the crop, or at least the largest number of scientists who produce highly technological advantages, but the problem is that the average american (according to these rankings) knows less about science then the average German, Brit, or Korean. So when Europeans stereotype Americans as stupid they aren't saying that the top 500 american scientists are less intelligent then the top 500 X nation scientists, they're probably reffering to the large portion of non-scientists who think the Earth is under 10,000 years old and that fossil records were placed in the dirt by Satan.

 

It's basically what you said here,

 

 

 The majority of Americans are dumb? I guess the smart people must be really smart then.

 

 

Basically, yes. Maybe not dumb, but less educated in regards to literacy, math, and science then most industrial nations. So yeah, dumb. There's some advantage to having the best of the best, but American culture would certainly improve if the rest were a little bit more informed.

 

As for making state Universities free, it's a good idea, but would cost billions of dollars and we're already spending our billions of dollars on other stuff that seemed like good ideas at the time. 



#509 Skirmisher

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 03:15 PM

As for making state Universities free, it's a good idea, but would cost billions of dollars and we're already spending our billions of dollars on other stuff that seemed like good ideas at the time. 

 

Yes... Like the Military... the US is the #1 for spending on Military out of every country in the world, and spends as much on the military as the other top 10 countries, Combined.

 

I don't know the Exact figure, but I believe it is close to or well into the Hundreds of Billions of Dollars.

 

Maybe if you cut back 1% of your Military funding, you could at least make all Colleges free in the States. Who knows... if you were Radical enough to cut 5% of your Military Budget you could make Universities free as well. But God Forbid you have one less Nuclear Sub to prowl around the oceans, or yet another weapon that won't end up being used because no other nation on the planet has the ability to mount a war on the scale needed to deploy said weapon...



#510 force_echo

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:06 AM

That's complete bullshit. Total college spending is over 900 billion dollars, some sources say it exceeds 1 trillion, but lets go for the conservative measure. Complete military spending is 1.030 trillion dollars. Cutting back 5% on military spending would do absolutely nothing at all.



#511 Darxeth

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:23 AM

The intelligence of the general populace in all countries is low, imo.

Sure, some may have slightly higher scores on a test (one that I've never even taken, go figure) than the average American, big deal. That's like being the smartest kid with down syndrome.

On a side note, I once convinced a Canadian chick that I could read minds. And she believed me for an entire year until I told her the truth. I've never been able to do that with an American girl.

#512 corvette1710

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:46 PM

Well, I convinced my fourth grade class that I was colorblind... too bad they didn't know how colorblindness worked.



#513 Darxeth

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 08:34 PM

Fourth graders will believe anything. Heh.

#514 patrickthekid

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 05:38 PM

This thread hasn't been underailed yet? I'm disappointed in you guys.



#515 sirmethos

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 09:15 PM

That's complete bullshit. Total college spending is over 900 billion dollars, some sources say it exceeds 1 trillion, but lets go for the conservative measure. Complete military spending is 1.030 trillion dollars. Cutting back 5% on military spending would do absolutely nothing at all.

 

While I know it's a bit of a delayed reaction, I would love to see some of those sources.   Most of the sources I could find on a quick search, puts the number(on college spending) at nowhere near that.

 

The total budget for the Department of Education, in the fiscal year of 2010, was about 60 billion. And the requested total budget, for 2011, was only at roughly 80 billion.(this is information from the U.S. Government's own website).



#516 Skirmisher

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 10:03 PM

While I know it's a bit of a delayed reaction, I would love to see some of those sources.   Most of the sources I could find on a quick search, puts the number(on college spending) at nowhere near that.

 

The total budget for the Department of Education, in the fiscal year of 2010, was about 60 billion. And the requested total budget, for 2011, was only at roughly 80 billion.(this is information from the U.S. Government's own website).

Compared to the US DoD Budget of Over $600B

 

That's over 10 times the budget of Education...



#517 Ruinus

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 06:27 PM

This is probably where he got those figures from, though that's measuring student debt. This, on the other hand, is what the federal government spent on education in 2012. 107 billion. So now the US only spents 6 times as much on the military than on education.

Obviously this is my own political opinion now, but I think something is seriously wrong in any country that spends more on a military than it does on education.

#518 Darxeth

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 08:38 PM

America spends a smaller percentage of it's budget on Military defense than Iran and the United Arab Emirates.
We also spend a larger portion of our budget on Healthcare and Education than Canada. Interesting stuff.

#519 force_echo

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 09:42 PM

The cost of Education is not equal to what the US Government spends on Education.

 

Time Magazine, complete student debt is 900 billion (with some sources claiming over 1 trillion). Also student debt is not the cost of the University system, it's only the cost students can't pay, which means the total cost is probably more than that. The US spends less than that on the military. So to claim that the US could divert a relatively small portion of their defense budget and actually cover university expenses in the US, as Skirmisher claimed, is complete bullshit with no basis in reality.



#520 Skirmisher

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 10:25 PM

The cost of Education is not equal to what the US Government spends on Education.

 

Time Magazine, complete student debt is 900 billion (with some sources claiming over 1 trillion). Also student debt is not the cost of the University system, it's only the cost students can't pay, which means the total cost is probably more than that. The US spends less than that on the military. So to claim that the US could divert a relatively small portion of their defense budget and actually cover university expenses in the US, as Skirmisher claimed, is complete bullshit with no basis in reality.

Except when considering the greiviously overpriced tuition fees for universities.

You have to consider the cost of books, food and housing which accounts for another portion of the debt.

Under government contracts books could be provided free, food could be provided free, and housing could be provided free.

Not to mention, if you were to governmentally fund schools, then the salery of proffessors could be capped so that that $90,000/yr is more in line with their actual position (note, that's just the average, with some profs raking in more then $125,000/yr)

What students are paying for in actuality isn't an education anymore, rather they're paying for a Brand and Logo.






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