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Hunger Games: Bad Guy Brawl


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#41 force_echo

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 11:15 AM

Sabretooth doesn't have the ability to use stealth? The man use to be a spy, C.I.A agent, weapon x agent, and more. He has that training and close if not equal to the same amount as Wolverine. Sabretooth is just as good a hunter and tracker as Wolverine. To do that requires stealth and intelligence in certain ways of hunting your ignoring. Intelligence is required in hunting your prey and taking the time to track it down. All stuff we have seen Sabretooth do. You can't just ignore all of that.  Also Sabretooth is intelligent hence the hacking into government agencies. You have ignored that to do a feat requires very good intelligence to even be able to figure all that out. Intelligence we know for a fact he has since he performed the feat.

If you've ever read Sabretooth while he was a Weapon X or CIA Agent, he was never the leader or strategizer, he was there as a blunt tool, and to keep Wolverine antagonized, Wolverine was always the one in control. So, if you actually read the comics instead of reading a wikipedia summary, you could actually seem to know what you're talking about. And it's funny, because in that same hacking scan, a guy who'd been a Weapon X Controller for years, and who is very familiar with Sabretooth's combat abilities, remarks that he's a complete idiot. Hacking into a computer is not a combat intelligence feat anyway, as I've already said.



#42 kainboa

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 11:23 AM

snip

 

Are you serious? Try any time you've ever debated me before. 98% of the time you're wrong, and 100% of the time you're attempts to personally irk the other dude provide good entertainment in the process.

Considering the apparently vast number of times I've been factually incorrect in a debate with you, then you shouldn't have a hard time providing some evidence to support your claim, since you didn't I can only consider this as a concession of my point, since a good debater typically provides evidence for the claims he's made when asked for them, rather than giving some bullshit answer and hoping that his opponent will simply ignore the point.

The second scan definitely does not show hacking lol.

I can only guess that you need to get some new glasses or contacts, since the second scan shows hacking to the same degree that the first one does, I've taken the liberty to do a minor edit to the scan, and circle the area you've quite obviously missed in your perusal.

http://i23.photobuck...zps00fd8a83.jpg

Also, hacking a computer is cool and all, but it's not very useful in a fight. I'm very well aware that Sabretooth has some hidden intelligence (according to some writers), but that intelligence in a fight is covered by his "extreme arrogance and bestial nature" in a fight, so it doesn't really do him a whole lot of good.

By your own admission here, you agree that Sabretooth isn't stupid, which is what the argument has been about from the beginning, whether or not his particular intelligence will be of any use to him in this fight, is a completely different argument.

You simply made a blanket statement, claiming that he is stupid, which is blatantly incorrect, and which I pointed out, you're now by trying to shift the argument into his intelligence not being useful in a fight.

Ok, well then failing to address your opponents points in any way is still bad debating.

I disagreed with two of your four points about Sabretooth, namely him being stupid, and apparently incapable of taking a stealthy approach when necessary, which I addressed in my intial post.

I agree with you in the two other points, namely him being arrogant, and aggressive, I would've thought it fairly obvious since I didn't say anything about those two points, but since you obviously need to have it spelled out, I've obliged you.

With my original post and the follow up post, I have addressed the points you've brought up, while you've neglected to provide evidence for any of your points thus far, yet you keep claiming that I am the bad debater, the irony is rather entertaining.

Considering your debating behaviour thus far, namely falsely trying to claim that I've said something which I haven't and now goal posting, I'm not going to respond any further, since trying to engage in a debate with a dishonest opponent, is a waste of time.



#43 force_echo

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 11:46 AM

Are you serious? Try any time you've ever debated me before. 98% of the time you're wrong, and 100% of the time you're attempts to personally irk the other dude provide good entertainment in the process.

Considering the apparently vast number of times I've been factually incorrect in a debate with you, then you shouldn't have a hard time providing some evidence to support your claim, since you didn't I can only consider this as a concession of my point, since a good debater typically provides evidence for the claims he's made when asked for them, rather than giving some bullshit answer and hoping that his opponent will simply ignore the point.

The second scan definitely does not show hacking lol.

I can only guess that you need to get some new glasses or contacts, since the second scan shows hacking to the same degree that the first one does, I've taken the liberty to do a minor edit to the scan, and circle the area you've quite obviously missed in your perusal.

http://i23.photobuck...zps00fd8a83.jpg

Also, hacking a computer is cool and all, but it's not very useful in a fight. I'm very well aware that Sabretooth has some hidden intelligence (according to some writers), but that intelligence in a fight is covered by his "extreme arrogance and bestial nature" in a fight, so it doesn't really do him a whole lot of good.

By your own admission here, you agree that Sabretooth isn't stupid, which is what the argument has been about from the beginning, whether or not his particular intelligence will be of any use to him in this fight, is a completely different argument.

You simply made a blanket statement, claiming that he is stupid, which is blatantly incorrect, and which I pointed out, you're now by trying to shift the argument into his intelligence not being useful in a fight.

Ok, well then failing to address your opponents points in any way is still bad debating.

I disagreed with two of your four points about Sabretooth, namely him being stupid, and apparently incapable of taking a stealthy approach when necessary, which I addressed in my intial post.

I agree with you in the two other points, namely him being arrogant, and aggressive, I would've thought it fairly obvious since I didn't say anything about those two points, but since you obviously need to have it spelled out, I've obliged you.

With my original post and the follow up post, I have addressed the points you've brought up, while you've neglected to provide evidence for any of your points thus far, yet you keep claiming that I am the bad debater, the irony is rather entertaining.

Considering your debating behaviour thus far, namely falsely trying to claim that I've said something which I haven't and now goal posting, I'm not going to respond any further, since trying to engage in a debate with a dishonest opponent, is a waste of time.

Alright, it should be fine for you to find an example then. Go ahead. Find one. It's funny how you can't practice what you preach.

 

Yeah, when I clicked it the first time, it was a scan of a girl and an alligator with sabretooth coming up on them both. That's why I was confused.

 

Are you retarded? I submit, to your immense intelligence, that this scenario is a freaking fight. When I said he was stupid, I didn't care if he knew how to hack a damn computer (that scan says he hacked it with the codes, that's not hacking, that's just using a password you already have, I do the same thing every time I log onto my computer, so I guess I'm as smart in a fight as all of these guys), I was talking about in the context of the fight. Whether he's smart in a fight isn't a different argument, that's the WHOLE argument, and, like I've already said, I NEVER said that Sabretooth was incapable of using stealth, so your idiotic practice of debating things irrelevant in any way, shape, or form to the fight also extends to the fact that you debate things that aren't even important.

 

Yes I need to have it spelled out, just like you need to have it spelled out that when I was talking about Sabretooth being dumb, I was talking about the fight, which is why I was commenting on the FIGHT, something that's so painstakingly obvious, but here. let me spell it out carefully, so you'll understand, when I made the point earlier that Sabretooth's hacking skills won't help him in this fight, I wasn't making it for my health, or because I like arguing with boneheaded imbeciles, I was making it because my claim was in the context of the battle I commented on.

 

I actually responded to EVERY single of your claims buddy. And instead of pulling scans from a respect thread, I actually provided context to the comics you blindly referenced. None of your "points" are valid in this debate because you apparently debate things outside of the context of the fight that I was debating, which obviously doesn't make any damn sense. I don't know about "dishonest", I just think you're stupid. I would much rather debate with someone dishonest than someone who debates completely irrelevant points. If you can even call that debating.



#44 thanosisawesome

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 12:06 PM

This isn't really my debate, but still.

Alright, it should be fine for you to find an example then. Go ahead. Find one. It's funny how you can't practice what you preach.

 

That's not really how it works. I'm assuming that he doesn't believe your unsubstantiated claim, so it is up to you to find evidence, which I would assume doesn't exist.

 

 

 (that scan says he hacked it with the codes, that's not hacking, that's just using a password you already have, I do the same thing every time I log onto my computer, so I guess I'm as smart in a fight as all of these guys),

 

A minor point, but from my interpretation Sabertooth acquired said codes through the hacking.



#45 force_echo

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:00 PM

This isn't really my debate, but still.

 

That's not really how it works. I'm assuming that he doesn't believe your unsubstantiated claim, so it is up to you to find evidence, which I would assume doesn't exist.

 

 

 

A minor point, but from my interpretation Sabertooth acquired said codes through the hacking.

Actually, if you actually read, before butting in like some idiot, he's the one who made the claim first without any evidence. So, if anything, the burden's on him. The only "proof" he had was this very debate. Heads up, it doesn't work like that. You can't use the current contention as evidence for the claim. That's like someone on trial for murder for killing a store owner, and the prosecutor says that he has the capability to commit murder because he committed murder in killing the store owner.

 

Not that it changes the point of my rant at all, but I was under the impression that he used the codes to dig up files on Wolverine, and that was the hacking. Also, how are the only times Creed hacks into the Weapon X databases solely to get information on Wolverine? That only proves my point even further. Despite the fact that it's an organization he has EXTENSIVE knowledge of, the only times he sees fit using that mighty "Intelligence" is when it comes to tormenting one person.



#46 thanosisawesome

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:10 PM

Actually, if you actually read, before butting in like some idiot, he's the one who made the claim first without any evidence. So, if anything, the burden's on him. The only "proof" he had was this very debate. Heads up, it doesn't work like that. You can't use the current contention as evidence for the claim. That's like someone on trial for murder for killing a store owner, and the prosecutor says that he has the capability to commit murder because he committed murder in killing the store owner.

 

Not that it changes the point of my rant at all, but I was under the impression that he used the codes to dig up files on Wolverine, and that was the hacking. Also, how are the only times Creed hacks into the Weapon X databases solely to get information on Wolverine? That only proves my point even further. Despite the fact that it's an organization he has EXTENSIVE knowledge of, the only times he sees fit using that mighty "Intelligence" is when it comes to tormenting one person.

His claim wasn't made without any evidence. This very debate should be proof enough, since one side has used evidence while the other has used none. That's a terrible analogy. It's more like a man was caught red handed murdering the store owner, with multiple eyewitnesses. Since you presented no past incidences when questioned, it would be safe to assume none exist.

 

But anyways, that's enough, I'll let you go at it.



#47 force_echo

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 01:35 PM

His claim wasn't made without any evidence. This very debate should be proof enough, since one side has used evidence while the other has used none. That's a terrible analogy. It's more like a man was caught red handed murdering the store owner, with multiple eyewitnesses. Since you presented no past incidences when questioned, it would be safe to assume none exist.

 

But anyways, that's enough, I'll let you go at it.

Really? I've used no evidence? So that whole response on the last page doesn't exist? That's why Kain basically admitted that he couldn't find strategic instances of Sabretooth actually fighting that don't involve him specifically messing with Wolverine. And FYI, he didn't produce any past incidents either. I'm debating with retards that can't even understand basic logic. Then, when they're told that they don't make any sense, they either stop debating or say something to the effect of "You're so stupid I don't have to debate with you" or "that's enough, I'll let you go at it". If you wanted to let me go at it, you should have just kept your ignorance to yourself.



#48 thanosisawesome

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 02:05 PM

Really? I've used no evidence? So that whole response on the last page doesn't exist? That's why Kain basically admitted that he couldn't find strategic instances of Sabretooth actually fighting that don't involve him specifically messing with Wolverine. And FYI, he didn't produce any past incidents either. I'm debating with retards that can't even understand basic logic. Then, when they're told that they don't make any sense, they either stop debating or say something to the effect of "You're so stupid I don't have to debate with you" or "that's enough, I'll let you go at it". If you wanted to let me go at it, you should have just kept your ignorance to yourself.

Whatever you say. I probably shouldn't have said anything anyway.



#49 xLEGACYx

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:36 PM

in the end, it is pointless to debate with echo.  Either he will keep using his opinion to say you are wrong or just blatantly say the same thing over and over until you get to the same point everyone normally does.  Let him believe what he wants because its just a waste of time to debate.  He really just gets on peoples nerves.  You cant win even when you prove him wrong in multiple facets. 

 

So good luck continuing with him thanosisawesome.



#50 thanosisawesome

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:40 PM

in the end, it is pointless to debate with echo.  Either he will keep using his opinion to say you are wrong or just blatantly say the same thing over and over until you get to the same point everyone normally does.  Let him believe what he wants because its just a waste of time to debate.  He really just gets on peoples nerves.  You cant win even when you prove him wrong in multiple facets. 

 

So good luck continuing with him thanosisawesome.

Yeah, I know.



#51 corvette1710

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:56 PM

Maybe it is because you're so blind and/or stupid that they stop debating?

 

JUST A POSSIBILITY.



#52 Lunacyde

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:30 AM

So...back on topic guys. Lets stick to the facts of the battle. No need for personal attacks.

#53 force_echo

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 09:28 AM

Actually, since Kain wanted to make it so crystal clear that anything he doesn't respond to, he agrees with, and he never responded to any of my responses to his scans or any of the situations I laid out, or anything of anything really, that must mean he agrees with me. Great. Glad to know I won another debate over that jerk, although I guess taking candy from a baby isn't that much of an accomplishment.

So back to the topic on hand, we need to see who gets da weapons. People say Creed's gonna get there first and hold down the line, but there's no way he can take all of these dudes together. I predict Crossbones will get the .50, making him a lead contender. So is Bullseye, Todd, and Storm Shadow. Todd is probably going for dual pistols, and mid range-close range fighting. He probably gets killed by Storm Shadow. Storm, unless he can close distance fast, is going to get sniped. If he can, he's still going close combat with a dude who stalemated Captain America (Crossbones) and whose H2H is on par with Daredevil and Elektra (Bullseye). Don't know enough about Storm to make that call. Unless he makes a silent assassination, then the battle will probably draw the other sniper, who shoots both of them. The fact that a cannon is sounded after each combatant's death compounds this problem. It's up in the air really.

#54 thanosisawesome

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 09:32 AM

I don't think Bullseye is a top contender. I think he gets killed at the cornucopia.



#55 force_echo

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 09:35 AM

A guy who can take Daredevil and Elektra in H2H (both at the same time) and who has literally perfect aim is not going to be taken down at the Cornucopia. He'll pick up a rock and brain someone at 300 yards with it.

#56 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 10:37 AM

Also whoever said Creed couldn't destroy the weapons due to their being adamantium... he can disassemble them, effectively rendering them useless, such as removing the necessary firing pins and whatnot. :) That isn't destroying but disabling the weapons.



#57 Lunacyde

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:20 AM

Also whoever said Creed couldn't destroy the weapons due to their being adamantium... he can disassemble them, effectively rendering them useless, such as removing the necessary firing pins and whatnot. :) That isn't destroying but disabling the weapons.


True but he'd have to toss the stuff or something...any of the guys here could probably reassemble these weapons with their eyes closed. Also the swords and knives, and basically all the melee weapons cannot be destroyed.

#58 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:59 PM

He could just stash the pieces elsewhere. As for the melee aspect, that's not really an issue since he still physically outclasses all the others close combat wise.



#59 xLEGACYx

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:55 PM

Storm Shadow could take all others except maybe Creed.  His enhanced strength and speed may give him an advantage but not a whole lot.






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