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2:7 - Omega Supreme vs. Tarrasque


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#1 UMPIRE

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:09 AM

SEASON 2, ROUND 7
Omega Supreme
Posted Image
Slot: The teams OH SHIT! button
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Omega Supreme at Wikipedia
Official Site: Hasbro

Tarrasque
Posted Image
Slot: The teams OH SHIT! button
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Tarrasque at Wikipedia
Official Site: Wizards if the Coast

Battle Terrain
Combat Terrain: Planet Dune
Posted Image


#2 sithisson

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:21 AM

Well the terrain is not going to matter to it that's for sure. The Tarrasque could just as easy stay underground in a place like this. However being that the opponent is a robotic creature it's safe to assume that while a meal can be made of him it'll probably be grisly to taste!



#3 Culwych1

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:39 PM

My fav fight of the season so far! Strangely easy to imagine this fight, especially if you watch the Pacific Rim trailer. 

 

One point to consider however is the size of Omega Supreme, which ranges from this:

 

Omegasupreme-blasterandgrimlock.jpg

 

to this;
 

OmegaSupremeintro.jpg

 

So if this is the smaller version then it could be swallowed by the Tarrasque and the fight ends there (he ain't blasting out before he's digested). 

 

Then it is important to weigh up Omega's blasting power versus the Tarrasque's armour which is strong enough to shrug off high level spells. Conversely, it is likely, given the creature's strength that it would be able to do some damage to the transformer but only at close range.

 

Omega definitely could have the advantage if he can keep his distance but the Tarrasque will keep coming and has Wolverine level regen which means it will bring the fight to Omega... then its scrapyard time. 



#4 sithisson

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:54 PM

Indeed all my thoughts eloquently  written  Culwych!  I have to admit my limited knowledge on things robotic and mecha; it's one of the core reasons why Adam is staying benched for a little while more. When it's suggested that Omega tends to be physically slow about what speed would he be considered to move? With both the Bull Rush feat, which doesn't give speed but would make sure to give the Tarrasque a chance to knock Omega back a bit, and a speed of 20 feet (which is not messing around in D and D terms of movement) the creature's going to come striking hardcore and fast and that's not counting on the fact it's rush tends to exceed up to 150 feet at times.

I don't see the weapons doing much damage to it initially as bashing damage from rockets and fire damage from any lasers is going to ignored. If one of it's limbs are cut by the lasers it'll just regenerated it in mins. Granted it's usually 1d6 minutes in nature but that gives it a time range of 1-6 mins at best. 

So i guess it'll depend on what size is being used and the speed of Omega. Lucky then that we'd be using Tarrasque versions of default. I've seen Epic level versions of the creature that would scare it's 4ED version something fierce.



#5 leroypowell3

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:54 PM

I knew I was smart bringing Omega Supreme off the bench. Most versions of Omega are like the size of a mountain, slightly bigger than the other combiner transformers. So according to the picture of this Tarraque, Omega would just step on it.

Next, it's been stated the Omega Supreme's armor would require a nuclear detonation to penetrate it.

Still more, Omega Supreme took on a Thor level Sunstorm in the shortlived Dreamwave comics run and he had Sunstorm beaten. The only reason he lost is because he opened up his armor and Sunstorm blasted him in the opening.

Against a worthy opponent, Omega Supreme would destroy and entire continent. His blasts would vaporize anything not as tough as he is.



#6 sithisson

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:46 PM

Squashing it would not really happen as it'll just burrow away into the ground and heal up. I'd not judge a book by it's picture in this case. What it'll lack in the size it'll make up for the constant attacking. Who says it needs to penetrate it? The Tarasque will continue to pound on the armor until either it's put back to it's slumber or the armor crushes and the first will take a very very long time in doing so.

Destroy a continent you say? The Tarrasque was created to consume and destroy worlds by elder gods.So vaporize away. It'll keep regenerating until either Omega falls, it finally gets bored and decides to go to sleep/ the hit levels are taken down to 0 which will take longer then being stomped on, or there is nothing left attacking it. i.e a stalemate.

The best that can happen with Omega is he destroys Arrakis and leaves the Tarrasque floating in space. Not sure how one can judge a battleground being destroyed but it'll at least would err on the side of Omega seeing as he can at least fly presumed?

Still trying to find out the whole speed ratio. It'll come bull rushing toward Omega and bash against one of his legs. Penetration would not be it's goal if it can knock the thing down at first.

I'd hate to be the sandworms in this case though. The creature would kill them and work on eating there too as well as anything else that wants to get involved. Omega is a worthy opponent by all means but that distinction equally falls to the Tarrasque. Underestimating it by picture alone would not be a wise move for future opposition to consider.There's a reason why D and D parties tend to hate the very name being spoken.



#7 leroypowell3

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:53 PM

Sounds like a really good fight we got here.

I've only seen Omega Supreme beaten three times.

1. In the Generation 1 cartoons when Galvatron shot him in the face (armor plate was up)

2. In the Dreamwave comics when Sunstorm faked being out and yep shot him in the face with the armor plate up

3. The IDW comics when Monstructor a combiner ripped his arm off (I think that merits an add to the database). Omega had to flee by flying to some asteroid so yes he can fly.

So in my opinion, Omega Supreme can fight the Tarrasque until it gets tired.



#8 sithisson

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:44 PM

Sounds like a really good fight we got here.

I've only seen Omega Supreme beaten three times.

1. In the Generation 1 cartoons when Galvatron shot him in the face (armor plate was up)

2. In the Dreamwave comics when Sunstorm faked being out and yep shot him in the face with the armor plate up

3. The IDW comics when Monstructor a combiner ripped his arm off (I think that merits an add to the database). Omega had to flee by flying to some asteroid so yes he can fly.

So in my opinion, Omega Supreme can fight the Tarrasque until it gets tired.

Oh I agree this is one brutal match-up. This is going to come down to people's thoughts, experiences, and research more then anything else. The Tarrasque has been beaten before in D and D games but it takes a lot of doing and cunning uses of skills and items/traps more then anything else. Even then in the games it comes down to lucky rolls and teamwork. I'll see if I can find any direct fictional showings; most of what I know of the creature comes from direct gaming. I was surprised to find it in the database. My first thought had been Urza and his summons.



#9 comic_book_fan

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:35 PM

all right who ever picked omega supreme  roll a D 20 and tell us what you get if memory serves it's an 18 or better.



#10 leroypowell3

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 02:20 PM

all right who ever picked omega supreme  roll a D 20 and tell us what you get if memory serves it's an 18 or better.

 

I would if I knew what it meant.



#11 comic_book_fan

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:39 PM

I would if I knew what it meant.

what you never played D&D



#12 Hastur

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:14 PM

This is assuming D&D 3.5:

all right who ever picked omega supreme  roll a D 20 and tell us what you get if memory serves it's an 18 or better.

Heh.  Good thought, but his bite is just an augmented critical now, not a vorpal bite.

 

1,  Squashing it would not really happen as it'll just burrow away into the ground and heal up.

2.  It'll keep regenerating until either Omega falls, it finally gets bored and decides to go to sleep/ the hit levels are taken down to 0 which will take longer then being stomped on, or there is nothing left attacking it. i.e a stalemate.

1.  I can't swear to it, but I don't think any of the fiction supports that the Tarrasque would hide from a threat; its reaction is pretty muich roar and charge.

2.  Chances are it's only awake for 1d3 days.  I don't the Tarrasque lasting more than a half-dozen or so rounds before he gets squashed, then a few more rounds before he gets squashed again, then two days of Omega standing there and splattering the remains over and over while waiting for the ref to show up and call the match.

 

 


I don't see the weapons doing much damage to it initially as bashing damage from rockets and fire damage from any lasers is going to ignored.

Tarrasque ignores fire, but not bludgeoning.

 

I think the biggest threat is the Tarrasque's carapace reflecting one in three of Omega's lasers back at him, although the rules are ambiguous as to whether it works on all rays, lines, or cones, or just magical ones.



#13 sithisson

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:44 PM

This is assuming D&D 3.5:

Heh.  Good thought, but his bite is just an augmented critical now, not a vorpal bite.

 

1.  I can't swear to it, but I don't think any of the fiction supports that the Tarrasque would hide from a threat; its reaction is pretty muich roar and charge.

2.  Chances are it's only awake for 1d3 days.  I don't the Tarrasque lasting more than a half-dozen or so rounds before he gets squashed, then a few more rounds before he gets squashed again, then two days of Omega standing there and splattering the remains over and over while waiting for the ref to show up and call the match.

 

 


I don't see the weapons doing much damage to it initially as bashing damage from rockets and fire damage from any lasers is going to ignored.

Tarrasque ignores fire, but not bludgeoning.

 

I think the biggest threat is the Tarrasque's carapace reflecting one in three of Omega's lasers back at him, although the rules are ambiguous as to whether it works on all rays, lines, or cones, or just magical ones.

Not so much hiding from it but what I was suggesting is that putting it into the ground by squashing it probably not something that works with something that can burrow itself.

1d3 days is is literally about how many days these things seem to run anyway so it'll stay awake through it all for sure. Besides time itself doesn't seem to be an issue in any of these matches.If they were a lot of the more mortal sorts would be exhausted in their matches by their ending.

Yes bludgeoning would hurt it but it'll regenerate. As to the lasers that's a good question and I'd hold that it's possible it could as what's lasers but a light in some sort of wave? Additional what's magic in one world/universe  is probably science in the next so ambiguity is the best we can go for there.

I did say it would initially charge and still wondering what all of the info on Omega suggests as his speed being slow. It doesn't say slower then (insert character name here) so knowing that information and juggling it with the speed movement of the Tarrasque to get a concise idea.

 

Edit: I have considered that this version has to be at it's most powerful. I've only gotten a little into 4 ed so far in playing so yeah rounding it as it's 3.5 version is probably the best idea.

Edit 2: Oh and anyone feel free to grab it first for season three, well depending on the slot descriptions, as I've already got a few ideas for a either a toonish team or an old school 80's one.



#14 Hastur

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 06:24 AM

1.  1d3 days is is literally about how many days these things seem to run anyway so it'll stay awake through it all for sure.

2.  Yes bludgeoning would hurt it but it'll regenerate.

3.  I did say it would initially charge and still wondering what all of the info on Omega suggests as his speed being slow. It doesn't say slower then (insert character name here) so knowing that information and juggling it with the speed movement of the Tarrasque to get a concise idea.

1.  My point is the fight is unlikely to go on indefinitely, since the Tarrasque is typically not awake for more than a couple of days; it'll fall asleep before it can do enough damage to a target as big and heavily armored as Omega Supreme.

2.  My other point is that rockets specifically would be about as effective as any other attack.

3.  The Tarrasque has a move of 20'/round, which is very, very slow for a creature of its size, slower than a human can walk.  Once per minute, it can rush forward, increasing that to 150' for one round, so Omega Supreme can easily outpace the Tarrasque if he needs to get away from it (at least briefly).

The Tarrasque's biggest liabilities are its inability to form plans, and its inability to fly; those are usually how adventurers take it down.



#15 sithisson

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 10:02 AM

1.  My point is the fight is unlikely to go on indefinitely, since the Tarrasque is typically not awake for more than a couple of days; it'll fall asleep before it can do enough damage to a target as big and heavily armored as Omega Supreme.

2.  My other point is that rockets specifically would be about as effective as any other attack.

3.  The Tarrasque has a move of 20'/round, which is very, very slow for a creature of its size, slower than a human can walk.  Once per minute, it can rush forward, increasing that to 150' for one round, so Omega Supreme can easily outpace the Tarrasque if he needs to get away from it (at least briefly).

The Tarrasque's biggest liabilities are its inability to form plans, and its inability to fly; those are usually how adventurers take it down.

Sure tell the rest how to win why don't ya! :) It's a half and half at times who goes looking for information.

The fight again would fall to either side. Again if we take into account the battle going on for the days it's held in post until the votes are tallied that's at least three days time which is the max on a 1d3..

It's slow in comparison to most things but it does have the Bull Rush which would allow it quicker motion then the supposed, and again I'm taking the information off of what I've found about Omega so far with no response otherwise, Omega who seems to maneuver slowly or so it tends to be written as. Meaning that while his escape and evasion might be quick, the initial action from Omega might be slower then the Bull Rush, depending on what these sites mean by slow for Omega.

I already stated that blasting the planet would work as a win as Tarrasque would be floating off into space whereas I'd suspect Omega could fly in it? Again all depends on the whole speed thing on the other side of the playing field. In terms of intelligence any other character would probably not consider rushing a robotic foe bigger then it is; hence I already considered it's Int not being the best in terms of strategy after all  :P



#16 leroypowell3

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:23 PM

what you never played D&D

 

Boy, ya'll have been busy while I was away. No, I've never played D&D. or any other Role Playing game for that matter. I have read a whole lot of GURPS stuff as well as Palladium but I just like the creativeness of the ideas. I still don't really understand the rules stuff. There's a bunch of characters and entities from Palladium that would be fierce competion in the database but I doubt anybody would even know them.

However- Glitterboys and the Coalition States are in here...



#17 sithisson

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:30 PM

Boy, ya'll have been busy while I was away. No, I've never played D&D. or any other Role Playing game for that matter. I have read a whole lot of GURPS stuff as well as Palladium but I just like the creativeness of the ideas. I still don't really understand the rules stuff. There's a bunch of characters and entities from Palladium that would be fierce competion in the database but I doubt anybody would even know them.

However- Glitterboys and the Coalition States are in here...

Actually played some GURPS stuff in the past but stuck mostly  to the far more general RP stuff like D&D and later on White Wolf's Old World of Darkness stuff. Haven't really seen anything great in terms of the New World to draw me back into the fold of White Wolf while 4 edition D&D at least has some familiarity to it.



#18 Hastur

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:16 PM

1.  The fight again would fall to either side. Again if we take into account the battle going on for the days it's held in post until the votes are tallied that's at least three days time which is the max on a 1d3..

2.  It's slow in comparison to most things but it does have the Bull Rush which would allow it quicker motion then the supposed, and again I'm taking the information off of what I've found about Omega so far with no response otherwise, Omega who seems to maneuver slowly or so it tends to be written as. Meaning that while his escape and evasion might be quick, the initial action from Omega might be slower then the Bull Rush, depending on what these sites mean by slow for Omega.

3.  I already stated that blasting the planet would work as a win as Tarrasque would be floating off into space whereas I'd suspect Omega could fly in it?

1.  I have absolutely no idea what your point is.

2.  ...OH.  You're conflating movement speed with with charging  with Bull Rush with reaction time.  Okay.  Bull Rush is where you ram your opponent, and drive him backwards with your momentum.  It's really, really ineffective against opponents larger and stronger than you.  A charge is where you sacrifice defense to charge double your movement and land a more penetrating hit.  You only get to land one hit when you charge, whereas your opponent can use his full round of attacks to respond.  As for reaction time, I couldn't say; in D&D, the larger the creature, the lower his Dex is.  The Tarrasque is pretty nimble by human standards (16 vs 10 average) even given its size, so yes, it would probably be faster.

3.  I s'pose.  I don't really like discussing  space dump as a strategy, so I'll leave that alone.

So the way I see the fight going is the Tarrasque winning initiative, charging, landing one hit, and ending his movement next to OS, who then thumps the T with a crushing full attack.(if T doesn't win initiative, the less aggressive OS would probably ineffectively pelt the T from a distance before the charge).  After this point, unless one of them chooses to run, movement rate is moot, as they're already adjacent to each other.  The T gets a full barrage of 6 attacks, which OS tanks with a high AC, high DR, or lots of HP.  OS responds with a smaller number of much more powerful blows.  Rinse and repeat until the T goes down.  OS tries to leave, T pops up and charges again, and gets crushed again next round.  OS tries to blast the "corpse" with lasers, and discovers either they do no damage, or that the T continues to regenerate (it's kind of up in the air what kind of damage lasers, etc. cause in D&D).  This continues until the T falls back to sleep 1d3 days later, or until OS realizes the T can't jump more than a hundred feet, at most, and hovers out of range (or decides to just fall on it), or until OS decides to use his strength and size to his advantage by grappling and holding the T until it falls asleep or someone calls the match.



#19 sithisson

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:44 PM

Not going to quote all of that so I'll counter-point briefly.

1) The point I'm raising is that if we were working with time consistences with these matches that a lot of the non-super humans would be heavily exhausted. So I really don't know if we can judge how much time is passing in each of these battles so that using game mechanics would pretty much have to be judged by IRL time days of posting for this particular kind of match. Knowing that the largest number on a 1d3 roll would fall into 3, the usual time it takes for these things to finish up, we can presuming 3 days for the battle.

2) Pretty much you have the idea. Although  I'd still want to know what this whole thing of making sure to mention Omega is slow physically is important in sites describing him. Is that a handicap of the character at all or is this how most fans have seen him to be?

3) You got everything well written here and as I've stated before a lot of this will come down to judgement of the voters in the end because a lot of stuff is left in the air to consider (including literally Omega if he goes that route)

Final point. You should totally get into the third season of this and take the creature into your hands as you'd bring it to the top rounds for sure.



#20 UMPIRE

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:14 AM

Match Final Results
Omega Supreme: 13
Tarrasque: 8





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