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2:7 - Brolly vs. Vegito


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#1 UMPIRE

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:08 AM

SEASON 2, ROUND 7
Brolly
Posted Image
Slot: The teams OH SHIT! button
Season Wins: 1
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Brolly at Wikipedia
Official Site: Toei Animation

Vegito
Posted Image
Slot: The teams OH SHIT! button
Season Wins: 1
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Vegito at Wikipedia
Official Site: FUNimation

Battle Terrain
Combat Terrain: Asteroid Field
Posted Image


#2 sirmethos

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:32 AM

Bring in the Brolly fanboys.  I'd love to see them try to argue that Brolly wins this one(he dies in the first 10 seconds).



#3 tomisntblue

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:40 AM

This fight, much like the Buu fight, lasts as long as Vegito wants. 



#4 Venom 2009

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:15 PM

1_SSJ3-Broly.jpg



#5 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:34 PM

lol Broly gets splattered across the asteroids.



#6 Dark Spider-man

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 01:55 PM

Broly: "I am the Legendary Super Saiyan!"

Vegito: "Ah....I beat you as Goku....just as Goku."

Broly: "What?"

Vegito: "Nothing."  *blasts him to nothingness*



#7 Bergy_Berg

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:18 PM

Just look at those sPECtacular muscles on Brolly.



#8 bigballerju

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:04 PM

Broly: KAKAROT!

 

* SPLAT*

 

Vegito: Moron. I am hungry.

 

* Vegito flys away*



#9 Dr. Pymp(mex)

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 06:15 PM

here is my two cents:

Let's write down facts based on showings only, not ASSUMPTIONS.

  • Brolly was seen fighting SSJ1's and defeated them easily.
  • The clothes they were wearing indicate the first encounter was sometime after or during Cell
  • The second around Buu saga time so so as Gohan is grown up
  • Brolly lost to A) Goku absorbing energy from his peeps and B) Gohan with Trunks, Gotens and a dead Goku's energy attack

Vegito

  • Beat up Super Buu
  • Turned to SSJ1 only

Now ABC logic dictates that Buu by himself is at Goku's SSJ2 or SSJ3's level of power. What do we know?

Vegito beat the crap out of Buu, and thats it. We do not see him being able to turn to SSJ2 or higher, we do not see him destroying planets and we do not see him actually defeating anyone. Brolly is seen destroying planets, traveling in space, having shields that protect him from lava.

Based on showings only, Brolly has more feats than Vegito, and as you all say it's what is shown not assumed right? Well we all know that Vegito will destroy Brolly, but if thats the case we are believing what we think and not what we know. Toriyama has not stated that Brolly is canon or non canon, and we do not know who is stronger since it could be that in the movies, they are all stronger or much much weaker.

Just wanted to point that out, that it's funny how some of us use feats as law and sometimes go with assumptions based on what someone has done.

Good example is Goku having telepathy, but then saying that he would get mind *insensitivity'd* by Prof X, even though there is NO proof that he would be. All are assumptions that are bias and flawed. Until someone can show proof of Goku being mind *insensitivity'd* then we cannot use that here.

back to this fight I will say vegitto wins by a landslide too.



#10 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 06:45 PM

Super Buu is physically more powerful than Kid Buu - it's a fact, so Vegito having effortlessly roflstomped him is the only feat you need to countermand Broly's and crush him easily.

 

After all this was the kind of Buu who screamed his way through the fabric of reality and was threatening to unravel the universe in his fight against Vegito iirc... likely hyperbole on the last one but it gets the point across nicely enough. :)



#11 sirmethos

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:27 PM

here is my two cents:

Let's write down facts based on showings only, not ASSUMPTIONS.

  • Brolly was seen fighting SSJ1's and defeated them easily.
  • The clothes they were wearing indicate the first encounter was sometime after or during Cell
  • The second around Buu saga time so so as Gohan is grown up
  • Brolly lost to A) Goku absorbing energy from his peeps and B) Gohan with Trunks, Gotens and a dead Goku's energy attack

Vegito

  • Beat up Super Buu
  • Turned to SSJ1 only

Now ABC logic dictates that Buu by himself is at Goku's SSJ2 or SSJ3's level of power. What do we know?

Vegito beat the crap out of Buu, and thats it. We do not see him being able to turn to SSJ2 or higher, we do not see him destroying planets and we do not see him actually defeating anyone. Brolly is seen destroying planets, traveling in space, having shields that protect him from lava.

Based on showings only, Brolly has more feats than Vegito, and as you all say it's what is shown not assumed right? Well we all know that Vegito will destroy Brolly, but if thats the case we are believing what we think and not what we know. Toriyama has not stated that Brolly is canon or non canon, and we do not know who is stronger since it could be that in the movies, they are all stronger or much much weaker.

Just wanted to point that out, that it's funny how some of us use feats as law and sometimes go with assumptions based on what someone has done.

Good example is Goku having telepathy, but then saying that he would get mind raped by Prof X, even though there is NO proof that he would be. All are assumptions that are bias and flawed. Until someone can show proof of Goku being mind raped then we cannot use that here.

back to this fight I will say vegitto wins by a landslide too.

1. It's not the amount of 'feats', it's the quality of them.  Vegito's one feat of completely decimating Buu, definitively shows that he is far beyond Brolly in terms of power.  There's no assumptions in that, just the facts.  Vegito proved himself to be far more powerful than Buu, who is far more powerful than Brolly(as demonstrated by Buu's feats).

 

2. Even if the movie versions are more powerful, or less powerful, than the anime versions, Buu in the movie-verse is still far more powerful than any version of Brolly.

 

3. About Goku getting "mind *insensitivity'd*" by Xavier.  Goku has demonstrated the ability to read minds, and has only done so on a few occasions.  In comparison, Xavier has actually been in telepathic battles(several of them in fact).  Even if Goku was a more powerful telepath(which there is nothing to indicate he is), his complete lack of skill and experience with telepathic combat, would result in him getting "mind *insensitivity'd*"(as demonstrated by Mr. Sinister against Nate Grey).

 

All this was based on facts and actual showings, rather than useless assumptions and opinions.



#12 Dr. Pymp(mex)

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:14 AM

1. I agree and only wished to point out the fact that buu really didn't do much more than brolly did.
Tit for tat buu at most destroyed a planet at a time. Brolly did the same thing

2.we don't know how much more energy Goku absorbed but I still agree with you

3. There is no proof that prof X has a more powerful mind, therefore it cannot be assumed that he is. Goku doesn't use that kind of fighting but he shows that he is able to use it and in dbZ they learn things with techniques. But I get your point
If this was a courtroom your evidence is not concrete enough to invalidate the plausibility of said statement.
For instance someone like Galactus has tons of experience but then you have a rookie like Franklin Richards who just man handles him, so sometimes more feats is not sufficient. This is just an example. I get your reasoning and simply just saying

#13 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:30 AM

Did you just say there's no proof Professor X doesn't have more a powerful mind than Goku? Something you don't understand is that you need to demonstrate that Goku's mental constitution is as capable as the likes of Professor X's, who's proven several times to be anything but of the norm. Way past the frickin' norm. That being said, Goku's never demonstrated anything that shows his being on par with the likes of Professor X...



#14 Dr. Pymp(mex)

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:02 AM

No I know all about how powerful prof x is, I simply meant that since we have no proof that he can mind *insensitivity* Goku, it shouldn't be valid.
I meant that since Goku is physically superior to Prof X and Goku's energy is leagues above X's that I say it's not a valid point to bring up.

I.e. there is no evidence that Goku can be mind wiped or that prof x can mind *insensitivity* him so it's here heresay

Again not takkngn anything away from prof as I'm soley bringing up the subject.

#15 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:02 AM

No I know all about how powerful prof x is, I simply meant that since we have no proof that he can mind rape Goku, it shouldn't be valid.
I meant that since Goku is physically superior to Prof X and Goku's energy is leagues above X's that I say it's not a valid point to bring up.

I.e. there is no evidence that Goku can be mind wiped or that prof x can mind rape him so it's here heresay

Again not takkngn anything away from prof as I'm soley bringing up the subject.

 

...What evidence is there that suggests that Professor Xavier wouldn't be able to simply send a telepathic attack and shut his brain down? Physical superiority means jack squat in regards - it's all to do with the mental capability. Goku's Ki capability has nothing to do with his mental capability. Again, unless you have definite proof aside hearsay (that's that actual proper usage for the term here, right now since that post of yours fits the definition to a t), Goku is utterly defenseless to any medium of mental attacks by Professor Xavier.



#16 sirmethos

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:43 AM

The evidence shows that 1. Saiyans' minds can be affected negatively by telepathy.  2. That Goku has absolutely no skill/experience when it comes to telepathic combat.  3. That Xavier has mentally affected opponents with mental shields far more powerful than Goku's(not to mention people far more powerful than Goku in general).

 

There is absolutely no evidence to support that Goku would be able to resist being mind-wiped, or that he would somehow be resistant to it.



#17 Dr. Pymp(mex)

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 10:03 AM

The evidence shows that 1. Saiyans' minds can be affected negatively by telepathy.  2. That Goku has absolutely no skill/experience when it comes to telepathic combat.  3. That Xavier has mentally affected opponents with mental shields far more powerful than Goku's(not to mention people far more powerful than Goku in general).
 
There is absolutely no evidence to support that Goku would be able to resist being mind-wiped, or that he would somehow be resistant to it.



There is no evidence of the opposite

Goku laughed at looked down on vegeta for being mind controlled, which in itself says that they are able to resist that kind, that's also an indication of them having a strong mind. Another is Magneto being able to resist it and he just has latent telepathic abilities, while Goku has actual abilities.

There is just no indication that someone like prof x being 100000 weaker than Goku, get min draped so it should not be used.

#18 UMPIRE

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:19 AM

Match Final Results
Brolly: 4
Vegito: 17


#19 kainboa

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:24 AM

here is my two cents:

Let's write down facts based on showings only, not ASSUMPTIONS.

  • Brolly was seen fighting SSJ1's and defeated them easily.
  • The clothes they were wearing indicate the first encounter was sometime after or during Cell
  • The second around Buu saga time so so as Gohan is grown up
  • Brolly lost to A) Goku absorbing energy from his peeps and B) Gohan with Trunks, Gotens and a dead Goku's energy attack

Vegito

  • Beat up Super Buu
  • Turned to SSJ1 only

Now ABC logic dictates that Buu by himself is at Goku's SSJ2 or SSJ3's level of power. What do we know?

Vegito beat the crap out of Buu, and thats it. We do not see him being able to turn to SSJ2 or higher, we do not see him destroying planets and we do not see him actually defeating anyone. Brolly is seen destroying planets, traveling in space, having shields that protect him from lava.

Based on showings only, Brolly has more feats than Vegito, and as you all say it's what is shown not assumed right? Well we all know that Vegito will destroy Brolly, but if thats the case we are believing what we think and not what we know. Toriyama has not stated that Brolly is canon or non canon, and we do not know who is stronger since it could be that in the movies, they are all stronger or much much weaker.

Just wanted to point that out, that it's funny how some of us use feats as law and sometimes go with assumptions based on what someone has done.

Good example is Goku having telepathy, but then saying that he would get mind *insensitivity'd* by Prof X, even though there is NO proof that he would be. All are assumptions that are bias and flawed. Until someone can show proof of Goku being mind *insensitivity'd* then we cannot use that here.

back to this fight I will say vegitto wins by a landslide too.

 

One thing you've "conveniently" left out of your little examination of the "facts" is that Super Buu defeated Gotenks, who transformed into SSJ3.

 

Since Vegito defeated Super Buu, he's more powerful than a SSJ3, which makes him quite a bit more powerful than Brolly.

 

It's amazing how actually looking at the entire picture, rather than picking and choosing which parts you want to include, gives you the answers you were apparently trying to avoid finding.



#20 sirmethos

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:24 PM

"Goku laughed at looked down on vegeta for being mind controlled, which in itself says that they are able to resist that kind, that's also an indication of them having a strong mind."


 

That's true, and that has been acknowledged on several occasions, in pretty much every debate on this particular topic.  But as shown on several occasions, in both Marvel and DC, it's much harder to Mind Control someone with strong will power, which is exactly what has been shown in DBZ as well.

 

"Another is Magneto being able to resist it and he just has latent telepathic abilities, while Goku has actual abilities."

 

Not true. Magneto doesn't resist via his latent telepathic powers, his mental shields are primarily due to his Electro-Magnetic Manipulation powers. Something that none of the DBZ character has, so that is completely inconsequential for the purpose of this debate.

 

"There is just no indication that someone like prof x being 100000 weaker than Goku, get min draped so it should not be used."

 

That sentence doesn't make any sense whatsoever.  But I'll try to interpret.

 

1. While Xavier is far weaker in terms of Ki, his mind/telepathic powers are considerably more powerful.

2. Xavier has influenced the minds of being far more powerful than himself, on several occasions. Hence, the difference in raw 'power', makes no difference in whether or not Xavier could mind wipe Goku.

 

Again: Saiyans' minds are capable of being affected negatively by telepathy.  Goku has absolutely no skill/experience in telepathic combat.  Xavier has several decades of telepathic experience, and is one of the most skilled telepaths on the planet. Xavier has mentally affected beings far more powerful than Goku.

There is nothing to indicate that Goku could in any way resist being mind wiped, or protect himself against it. While there is plenty of evidence to support that it would actually happen(i.e. saiyans' minds being negatively affected, along with xavier's 'feats').






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