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1:4 - Jango Fett vs. Vin


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#1 UMPIRE

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 02:32 PM

SEASON 1, ROUND 4
Jango Fett
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Slot: General ranged energy, magic or technology type character
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Jango Fett at Wikipedia
Official Site: Lucasfilms LTD

Vin
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Slot: General ranged energy, magic or technology type character
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Vin at Wikipedia
Official Site: Brandon Sanderson

Battle Terrain
Blasted Cliffs
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#2 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 02:40 PM

Well this should definitely be interesting.



#3 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 05:07 PM

I have to say, this match is a godsend in terms of abilities for me.  I'm not expecting to win the vote, I'm up against Star Wars but Vin's got this.  Now her standard weaponry, glass daggers and copper coins, are going to do shit against Mandalorian armor,  No bones about it.  The reason Vin wins is her various powers.

First of all she can burn pewter to give her super human abilities, speed on par with a galloping horse, which with enough pewter she can do for 16 hours straight, reflexes to scale.  Enhanced strength to the point where Vin who's five foot nothing 100 pounds soaking wet can easily lift and swing a sword bigger than she is.  Enhanced durability though likely nothing that would stop Jango's weapons, though it was able to keep her alive after her guts were slashed open by someone of comparable strength.  She was able to stay alert and moving long after she should've passed out from blood loss and it gives her a very minor healing factor, so minor it ha no battle applications.

 

Then we have tin which gives her enhanced senses.  All five senses are enhanced to superhuman levels/  Hearring might be on dog level but smell isn't as for sight I don't know what good comparrision would be.  Though it probably wouldn't be used here because it would make her more sensitive to the intense heat of the lava.

 

Iron and steel, these two are a big reason Vin will carry the day.  Iron allows her to Pull on sources of metal.  If they weigh less than her they're Puled toward her, if she's lighter, she' Pulled toward the object.  This would allow her to say, acquire one of Jango's blasters and while they don't have anything resembling a gun, point and pull the trigger isn't that hard to figure out.  Steel is much like iron expt it Pushes, lighter objects are pushed away, heavier objects push her away.  Of course you have to take into account things like anchors and the strength of the Push or Pull but that's the basic mechanic.

 

Then of course we have duralumin which burns up the store of any metal being burned at the same time as it giving Vin one large burst of power.  Well using it with pewter she was able to make a man's head explode with a headbutt and tat man was burning pewter at the time as well.

 

The we have the coup de gras in atium, which allows her to she a few seconds into the future via a translusent shadow that sripngs from everything.  this allows her to dodge attacks before they happen and make sure hers hit.  She also carry several vials of metal to replensh her ingested stores should she run out.



#4 Skirmisher

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:32 PM

Enhanced strength to the point where Vin who's five foot nothing 1000 pounds soaking wet can easily lift and swing a sword bigger than she is.

 

 

Daaaaaymn... Vin got fat....



#5 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:38 PM

Daaaaaymn... Vin got fat....

Oops held the zeo key too long there, fixing



#6 tomisntblue

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 11:38 PM

Vin should by all rights win this. With all that metal armor that Jango is covered in, it should be a simple matter to maneuver him into a lava blast.



#7 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 12:11 AM

Vin should by all rights win this. With all that metal armor that Jango is covered in, it should be a simple matter to maneuver him into a lava blast.

Even without the lava Jango brought everything Vin needs to win this.



#8 kainboa

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:20 AM

Two things, First off, His armor is made out of an alien metal, so it isn't certain that she would be able to affect it with her powers, same goes for most if not all of his weapons.

Secondly, if he gets a shot off first, and manages a kill-shot on her, which considering his skill level is quite likely, she's dead.



#9 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 12:51 PM

Two things, First off, His armor is made out of an alien metal, so it isn't certain that she would be able to affect it with her powers, same goes for most if not all of his weapons.

Secondly, if he gets a shot off first, and manages a kill-shot on her, which considering his skill level is quite likely, she's dead.

No, it would affect his armor metal is metal its points to metal. what makes madalorian iron so different from the metalss she's encountered thus far?  It came from another planet, that's not going to fly here.  I can point you to word of god that say Allomancy works just fine on other worlds.  Just it's not metal from her world so it might not work isn't a good argument, without any evidence to back it up, we've seen it point to end effect all kinds of metal.  Vin would go into fight already burning her metal, thus has superhuman reflexes and hell even precog if wants.  At the very  least she could aim dodge, she will know he's there.

 

I mean I'll grant you this iron and steel Allomancy don't work on alumin and some of its alloys, but that's because of special properties it has  within the magic system.



#10 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:07 PM

"I mean I'll grant you this iron and steel Allomancy don't work on alumin and some of its alloys, but that's because of special properties it has  within the magic system."

 

^ This is what makes this > "just it's not metal from her world so it might not work isn't a good argument, without any evidence to back it up, we've seen it point to end effect all kinds of metal."

 

An actual viable argument because we do not know where Mandalorian Iron's properties would fall within the magical system. Granted it if it was mundane metal not unlike those from her world, it wouldn't be an issue but as mentioned, there's nothing like Mando Iron and so it's quite silly to fall back onto the word of god indicating it would work on foreign metals when the word of god has an example of a metal that isn't affected. It's either if or and at this point, the best bet is? Don't assume it'll naturally work unless word of god explicitly states it'd affect all metal in Star Wars.

 

Which means > "Two things, First off, His armor is made out of an alien metal, so it isn't certain that she would be able to affect it with her powers, same goes for most if not all of his weapons." is wholly viable. :)

 

Just two cents from me :)



#11 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:49 PM

"I mean I'll grant you this iron and steel Allomancy don't work on alumin and some of its alloys, but that's because of special properties it has  within the magic system."

 

^ This is what makes this > "just it's not metal from her world so it might not work isn't a good argument, without any evidence to back it up, we've seen it point to end effect all kinds of metal."

 

An actual viable argument because we do not know where Mandalorian Iron's properties would fall within the magical system. Granted it if it was mundane metal not unlike those from her world, it wouldn't be an issue but as mentioned, there's nothing like Mando Iron and so it's quite silly to fall back onto the word of god indicating it would work on foreign metals when the word of god has an example of a metal that isn't affected. It's either if or and at this point, the best bet is? Don't assume it'll naturally work unless word of god explicitly states it'd affect all metal in Star Wars.

 

Which means > "Two things, First off, His armor is made out of an alien metal, so it isn't certain that she would be able to affect it with her powers, same goes for most if not all of his weapons." is wholly viable. :)

 

Just two cents from me :)

Well unless you can actually prove that his weapos wouldn't be affected shouldn't the hypothysus be that the would be?



#12 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 06:20 PM

Actually you made the claim of his weapons being able to be affected despite the fallacy I pointed out.

 

So therefore the burden of proof would actually fall on you to prove that they would be affected.



#13 tomisntblue

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 06:26 PM

Actually you made the claim of his weapons being able to be affected despite the fallacy I pointed out.

 

So therefore the burden of proof would actually fall on you.

Proof would be hard to find. Since, we don't know the exact properties of the metal. But, I think there's a much better chance of it working than not, seeing as the only exception is Aluminium, and the likely hood of that being used in armor and weapons seems low. Of course, that's speculation  :P



#14 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 06:29 PM

If you think there's a better chance of it working, then explain why you think that instead of saying so and provide evidence to support it.

 

Until then, the hypothesis isn't to bet on your favored character and hope the powers would actually work where the safer bet is that it wouldn't - as was already explained in my 2 cents post.



#15 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 06:30 PM

Actually you made the claim of his weapons being able to be affected despite the fallacy I pointed out.

 

So therefore the burden of proof would actually fall on you to prove that they would be affected.

Well it's specifically stated that mandorlian iron is an iron ore.  It's still called iron after the forging process.  The except that you're usingg aluminium is only unffectied because of the special way it

s magicaly charged in comparrisopn to the other metls.  Mandorlian Iron eould not have such a benefit.  I say again, Aluminium i inert because of it's special magical charge which beskar doesn't have.



#16 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 06:35 PM

Well it's specifically stated that mandorlian iron is an iron ore.  It's still called iron after the forging process.  The except that you're usingg aluminium is only unffectied because of the special way it

s magicaly charged in comparrisopn to the other metls.  Mandorlian Iron eould not have such a benefit.  I say again, Aluminium i inert because of it's special magical charge which beskar doesn't have.

 

And I'm saying Mando Iron clearly has properties that don't match anything witnessed in any other settings with iron ores.

 

And you did not get the point - I was saying we do not know the properties of mando iron entirely and where it would fall within the magical system and that you were banking on the odds of it working despite the fact there being an example of special properties not affected in the magical system.

 

Unless you have some such along the lines of word of god that it would truly work on all metals outside Mistborn, I reiterate, it's best not to assume it would work unless you can determine exactly how it would :)



#17 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 07:21 PM

As much as I'd love to settle this and believe me  I would, by the time i got word of god on this the atch would be over and I doubt I'd win the votes either way.



#18 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 05:17 AM

Alright, I'm going to give this one last shot.  If you still maintain that you don't think Allomancy can affect Jango's armor, I don't know what to tell you.  So let me lay on the line here.

Let's tart with the exception you so cling to: aluminum and certain alloys thereof.  First of all and this is very important, aluminum is an Allomantic metal.  not counting the God Metals and their alloys, there are only sixteen of these.  That means it has special magical properties when it pertains to Allomancy.  When burned it wipes out all your other metal stores, it also cannot be Pushed  or Pulled by iron and steel.  Lining your hat with them will block you from the emotional Allomancy of zinc and brass.  It is essentially the anti-metal.

 

Now why does it work like this you might ask.  Because of it' special Allomantic properties.  Its immunity to iron and steel, it's blocking out the effects of inc and brass, these are extensions of its power when burned, getting rid of other Allomantic metals in the stomach.  Now as for why certain alloys have this affect, Allomancers can urn impure metals for less power than their pure equivalents.  So these alloy are in actually just close enough to being aluminum that Allomancy till recognizes them as such.

 

Now let's talk about Jango's armament shall we?  It is made of durasteel including his armor.  Now interesting fact, aluminum and alloys thereof do exist in Star Wars and they are even used in armor.  Guess what isn't anywhere to be seen in durasteel or any of Jango's equipment?  If you guessed aluminum or any alloy thereof, you win the grand prize.  In fact durasteel is made entirely out of fictional metals, and carbon/

 

Now I know what you're going to say "Ha, fictional metals we don't know the properties of, Vin can't affect them!"  Slow your roll there buddy.  You're using aluminum as the basis for your arguments for possible exceptions.  Aluminum is immune for a very specific reason as I already.  It's a result of the metal's own Allomantic power.  It has a wholly unique Allomantic charge. 

These fictional "alien metals" in Star Wars don't have that charge for a couple of reasons.  One, Allomancy doesn't exist in their native universe so they have no reason to have properties that would defend against it.  Two, even if they existed in Mistborn or Allomancy did in Star Wars they aren't one of the sixteen metals used in the Three Metallic Arts, hence having no Allomantic charge and certainly not the unique one that aluminum immune.

 

So in conclusion.  Jango's shit is fair game.



#19 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 06:04 AM

Then prove it would affect the foreign metals because once again, you misunderstand what I was saying - I wasn't capitalizing only on Aluminum. I was capitalizing on two things: Unknown properties of the foreign metals and the fact that a single metal can be unaffected is enough to prove that she can't affect all metals, regardless of said metal's properties. The argument that these properties can't transfer beyond Mistborn is utterly silly because you're assuming that Durasteel wouldn't have properties like those - which you have no basis on other than saying it only exists in Mistborn. Simply because Allomancy doesn't exist in Star Wars. While that may be true, once again I refer you to not entirely known properties. I also refer you to the presence of Aluminum in Star Wars which you mentioned. So would you be saying that Aluminum from Star Wars would be affected whereas Mistborn's Aluminum wouldn't be or some such? I was under the impression that it was the composition of the metal that gave it its allomantic properties. Because from my understanding, before Allomancy came along, the basic metals were there. So if the compositions are the same, why would Aluminum in Star Wars not share the same properties if it's exposed to Allomancy? We don't know. See the fallacy there? It's either if or. Now I'm not trying to say the universal concept (i.e. the metals, i.e. aluminum) bridges canons but most mediums share similarities in those regards (again the metal) (Which I feel the point's been made.)

 

So once again, we do not know for sure if Jango's equipment would be affected. Likely not since its a safer bet against assuming it would. Unless you have some conceivable proof aside your cute little rationalization.



#20 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 06:23 AM

Then prove it would affect the foreign metals because once again, you misunderstand what I was saying - I wasn't capitalizing only on Aluminum. I was capitalizing on two things: Unknown properties of the foreign metals and the fact that a single metal can be unaffected is enough to prove that she can't affect all metals, regardless of said metal's properties. The argument that these properties can't transfer beyond Mistborn is utterly silly because you're assuming that Durasteel wouldn't have properties like those - which you have no basis on other than saying it only exists in Mistborn. Simply because Allomancy doesn't exist in Star Wars. While that may be true, once again I refer you to not entirely known properties. I also refer you to the presence of Aluminum in Star Wars which you mentioned. So would you be saying that Aluminum from Star Wars would be affected whereas Mistborn's Aluminum wouldn't be or some such? I was under the impression that it was the composition of the metal that gave it its allomantic properties. Because from my understanding, before Allomancy came along, the basic metals were there. So if the compositions are the same, why would Aluminum in Star Wars not share the same properties if it's exposed to Allomancy? We don't know. See the fallacy there? It's either if or. Now I'm not trying to say the universal concept (i.e. the metals, i.e. aluminum) bridges canons but most mediums share similarities in those regards (again the metal) (Which I feel the point's been made.)

 

So once again, we do not know for sure if Jango's equipment would be affected. Likely not since its a safer bet against assuming it would. Unless you have some conceivable proof aside your cute little rationalization.

You are not getting it, no Star Wars Aluminium wouldn't be affected by Allomncy.  However Alomancy is known to affect every other metal it comess across.  I just explained to you why aluminum is the the way it is, it's because of it's own effect within the system.  These metals have no such affect know  I say again it's the only exception, why it's the exceptiom is explained but you seem to ignore that.  and just say we don't knw la la la la."  There's only one known exception, and it's because of allomantic power as I explained.  It is the exception to the rule so isn't burden of proof on you?  You're the one who is claiming an exception a rule, so convince me there's an exception here.  Just saying "we don't know it might not be affected", when the general rule except for one very specific exception is not a good argument.






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