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1:4 - Linda-058 vs. Selene


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#1 UMPIRE

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 02:15 PM

SEASON 1, ROUND 4
Linda-058
Posted Image
Slot: Specialist - marksman, archer or other shooty weapon-based character
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Linda-058 at Wikipedia
Official Site: Bungie

Selene
Posted Image
Slot: Specialist - marksman, archer or other shooty weapon-based character
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Fantasy Team Page
Read more about Selene at Wikipedia
Official Site: Screen Gems (Sony)

Battle Terrain
Open Desert
Posted Image


#2 Skirmisher

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 02:17 PM

heh, Linda takes this... from 2km away, before Selene can even see or hear the shot. Her head flies apart in a fountain of gore.



#3 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 02:42 PM

Selene. She's going to know it's a fight to the death hence nonstop mobility which with her speed and senses pretty much ensures no shots hitting her.

 

And her senses would also let her notice a Spartan in desert terrain - if she engages in hand to hand out of the blue, she wins as she has twice the strength and far more speed than a Spartan II. She'd be a blur to a Spartan II essentially. :) Dual Beretta can take shields down.



#4 bigballerju

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 03:50 PM

Pretty much what Jaeger said. Selene after the second film got a speed and strength increase when she took the father's blood. Selene never holds back either and goes for the kill from the start.



#5 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 04:06 PM

She's more powerful in Awakening. :)



#6 Skirmisher

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:09 PM

Selene. She's going to know it's a fight to the death hence nonstop mobility which with her speed and senses pretty much ensures no shots hitting her.

Except you're not getting the fact that 1) a Flash suppressor on a rifle makes it practically invisible in broad daylight. and 2) the bullet from the Standard Rifle Linda uses travels 4 or more times faster then sound travels. Senses wouldn't even factor into this fight.

 

As to her Speed, you're kidding me right? You're talking about the woman who hit the pilots out of three banshee's in quick succession while they were chasing some ground targets. She didn't damage the banshee's, she Shot the Pilots, and this from about a klick away.

 

And her senses would also let her notice a Spartan in desert terrain - if she engages in hand to hand out of the blue, she wins as she has twice the strength and far more speed than a Spartan II. She'd be a blur to a Spartan II essentially. :) Dual Beretta can take shields down.

Enhanced Sight? No, her Senses are atuned to Nighttime environments, as per the Vamperic and by extension the Immortal heratige. She wouldn't be able to see a Spartan, especially camoflaged in a sand dune. Wouldn't be able to smell one, with the fact that there Would be no scent from her suit. Wouldn't be able to hear her, due to Mjolnir being a solid piece without motors or servos. Lastly, she wouldn't even be able to tell by Movement where Linda was due to Spartans being able to remain Absolutly Motionless for Hours... So unless she has some sort of Other ESP sense I'm not aware of, she's not going to see Linda.
 

You're also assuming that this is a hand to hand fight for Ranged character slots.

 

As for Strength and Speed, Please back up your words. We all know my calculations on Spartans, I raved about them for years. All you have gone on about so far is conjecture and opinion until you can prove Selene's Strength and Speed.

 

Pretty much what Jaeger said. Selene after the second film got a speed and strength increase when she took the father's blood. Selene never holds back either and goes for the kill from the start.

And So does a Spartan...



#7 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 07:02 PM

Nope - you misunderstood - I was saying she'd be mobile soon as the fight starts hence Speed. If Linda tries to take a shot, she won't be hit and will figure where it came from hence Senses. I've been under the impression since the tourney that all characters are aware they're in combat.

 

That pales in comparison to speed that's seemingly akin to teleportation to humans, which again dwarfs "blurs to the human eye". I'm not kidding you. If you don't believe me, there is a scene in Underworld: Evolution that demonstrates her speed before "evolving" as per Corvinius, she was a blur in that instance. :)

 

 

Then... these.

 

 

She just dropped into an area on a lower level with stairs and was on the guy in the next instant. That's from Awakening. Keep in mind... she was weakened/lethargic from the cyrostasis. :) I think that would cover speed nicely but if more showings are necessary, I'll find em... if Youtube cooperates. There's also this though, keep in mind however... she too is lethargic/weakened here.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6RHkbuo8BI

 

As for her getting shot by a shotty in the first film, I believe that instance was to demonstrate her resilience against the likes of a shotgun as she's consistently shown to utilize her speed quite often. Not the focus though here. Oh and I think it goes without saying that reaction and reflexes go hand in hand with her speed.

 

Her senses are enhanced overall - they're not only attuned to the night-environment.

 

Also camouflage? I remember a vague instance where Banshees couldn't find her (or any other really)... because said Spartan in question was angling light off the armor. What's more, olive green isn't the same color as a desert where nigh most things are tanish to brownish (as per the image provided). Unless she's using the Camo capability like from the Reach games or some such? She's liable to find her regardless with her superior senses, primarily eyesight and if a gunshot is attempted, hearing.

 

I'm not assuming - I'm saying that is the case once Selene realizes her handguns wouldn't do as much as using her superior strength and speed at close range would. Though as I said, they could bring her shields down. :)

 

Go watch Underworld Awakening if you want proof on her speed < edited stuff would have gone here but Deo beat me to it.



#8 deojusto

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 07:11 PM

Skirmisher, on 30 May 2013 - 17:16, said:
Except you're not getting the fact that 1) a Flash suppressor on a rifle makes it practically invisible in broad daylight. and 2) the bullet from the Standard Rifle Linda uses travels 4 or more times faster then sound travels. Senses wouldn't even factor into this fight.

As to her Speed, you're kidding me right? You're talking about the woman who hit the pilots out of three banshee's in quick succession while they were chasing some ground targets. She didn't damage the banshee's, she Shot the Pilots, and this from about a klick away.

Enhanced Sight? No, her Senses are atuned to Nighttime environments, as per the Vamperic and by extension the Immortal heratige. She wouldn't be able to see a Spartan, especially camoflaged in a sand dune. Wouldn't be able to smell one, with the fact that there Would be no scent from her suit. Wouldn't be able to hear her, due to Mjolnir being a solid piece without motors or servos. Lastly, she wouldn't even be able to tell by Movement where Linda was due to Spartans being able to remain Absolutly Motionless for Hours... So unless she has some sort of Other ESP sense I'm not aware of, she's not going to see Linda.

You're also assuming that this is a hand to hand fight for Ranged character slots.

As for Strength and Speed, Please back up your words. We all know my calculations on Spartans, I raved about them for years. All you have gone on about so far is conjecture and opinion until you can prove Selene's Strength and Speed.

And So does a Spartan...


- Flash suppressors make rifles ALMOST invisible to HUMAN eyes, they suppress the flare, but they're not flare eliminators. It's still visible and Selene has better then human sight to begin with.

- Vampires are not deaf to all sounds that aren't gun shots. She could hear Linda breathing, walking in the sand, running in the sand, or just jostling around in hundreds of pounds worth of equipment on her back. I've played Halo, Master Chief at least makes a lot of noise just jogging around (though I admit, Linda could be trained to be more stealth then chief. He's not exactly a subtle guy)

-No one's denying that Linda isn't fast, for a human, or even for a Spartan. But 'quick succession' doesn't tell me much and Selene is super-human. At best they're tied. I defer to Jaeger's explanation in the post above mine.

-I don't know how her super-sight works; it may be specifically darkvision, but someone who's seen all the movies more recently then me would know.(edit: just read Jaeger's post and I again defer to his explanation). However there is one big thing,

-How do you know the fight isn't at night?

-I don't know how the Halo world works, but if you carry full Mjolnir armor in this world, you are going to smell pretty rank after a few minutes. You would also just have your normal scent, Selene isn't nose-deaf to all smells not related to space armor.

-Remaining motionless for hours requires finding a good spot to hide motionless for hours. If there are no obstacles and both these chicks are that fast, it probably won't be a hide and seek game

- As for the conjecture stuff, Jaeger covered speed, but for strength, this is the first clip I found on youtube. Neck breaking, punting dudes across the room, etc. I remember in the first movies a vampire had strength near equivalent to nine foot werewolves. I'll see if I can find more
 



#9 deojusto

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 07:21 PM

Plus this scene here, watch the part where she overpowers the guy who ripped a military helicopter out of the sky with his bare hands

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpxhO1m8lgs



#10 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 07:31 PM

That was Viktor who had strength to crush Lycans effortlessly but Selene becoming a Hybrid pretty much puts her on the same level anyways.

 

Also I tried to edit my last post. -.- It didn't go through and some shit are missing then my connection crapped out temporarily so can't retrieve it again.

 

Also @ Markus - He also lifted a massive stone door to escape in his Hybrid form.

 

EDIT: EDITING MY POST with actual clips that work... I hope.

 

Welp, only two clips per post, posting third one here

 



#11 bigballerju

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:08 PM

Ah you both did a excellent job already explaining her abilities. 

 

This one is a music video. But I am showing you it because in the start of it after the super lycan transforms Selene knocks over a van and sends it flipping. She didn't even put much effort into it either.

 

 Selene runs up the wall, flips in the air, and stabs the super lycan.



#12 Betterman

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 05:26 PM

I agree with Jaeger.



#13 Skirmisher

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 03:28 PM

Bravo, you've presented alot of videos.

 

All of which fail to show me that Selene is better then Linda.

 

From what I've seen of her speed, she's no faster then a Spartan OUT of Mjolnir.

 

Strength? While the earlier shots presented her with feats that approached a Spartan OUT of Armour, her later ones, such as flipping the van are more in line with an Armoured Spartan, such as Linda.

 

Senses? Again, More attuned to a Night Time Hunter then a daylight hunter. Not to mention that it wouldn't matter in the slightest.

 

 

Scenario:

Open Desert, Linda bunks down inside a sand dune, using some dead animal bones to cover her scope as she scans the terrain for enemies...

 

It just so happens that the Black Leather Clad vampire stands out like a sour thumb and doesn't seem to hide at all, given this is a Ranged fight, and Not A Close Combat fight.

 

Linda takes a bead on the Vampire as she darts around in vain, trying to pick up a scent or figure out Where Linda is... when Thwip, a round takes her head off...

 

See, Selene never dodged Bullets... she dodged Aim, and only when she could See where it was coming from.

 

Linda is a Super Ace Sniper, She's like Captain America + Bullseye + Iron Man (Albeit not as strong, but I was going for looks with the last point).

 

Assuming that Selene already knows Where Linda is, Then what? This is a Ranged Fight. Are you saying that your Ranged Combatant closes to Hand to Hand?

 

Because I mean, Selene's handguns aren't touching Lindas Armour or Shields. They're Far to weak, and her Special Ammo is made to take down Vamps and Lycans, Not Armoured Tanks.

 

That said, I have a feeling You Want this to become a Close Combat Fight... Linda Still wins.

 

Selene has shown Great Acrobatic speed, being able to flip around, and dive through places to make it seem as though she's fast enough to teleport. But I'm sourly unimpressed with her Hand to Hand Speed.

 

Spartans have shown in quotes that I can get to move fast enough to Blur while fighting in hand to hand combat. Linda with a knife would be able to land five hits to one of Selenes if the two entered hand to hand. Although Selenes Extreme Acrobatics might help her, the terrain would limit that to only a Minor help.

 

Strengthwise? She Knocked over a Van... Panzer would have you believe that the feat marks her in the several dozen Tons category... because of the Momentum of the van or something (Not sure if said here, but he did mention it in Mibbit)... Which would be impressive were it not wrong. She hit the van Abeam, not while it was bearing down on her. Meaning that all the Vans forward momentum wasn't focused on her.

 

All she did was knock over a ton or two vehicle... Which is what Spartans do all the time. I've shown in various places that a Spartan does have the strength to flip a warthog (Not a 66ton tank though :( ), which is around 3tons iirc. And they do it in a similar manner to how Selene flipped the Van. What more, Selene had to Bodycheck the Van, whereas Spartans just grab and deadlift the Hogs into the air.

 

Next up is their Durabilities. Selene has her healing factor to contend with, however Linda is armoured like a Tank, with Shields to boot. Selene's Strength is impressive, however It's no match for a Spartan. She might make it though Linda's shields, and knock her around abit, but nothing overly serious... and that's only if Linda were to not fight back. All Spartans have combat knives. With their size they're more like mini-Machetes though. One solid hit from Linda could easily sever a limb of Selenes, which would negate her Healing Factor until the limb was placed back on... What more, if Linda took her head off, then that's the fight right there... I could see Selene fight without a hand, or an arm, or two... maybe even missing a leg... but you kinda need your head.



#14 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 05:58 PM

I like how you're ignoring that in around 3 seconds, Selene moves from a room into a vent then down into a lower elevation then over a railing to get to the Scientist. While weakened and lethargic. That's significantly faster than Spartan in Armor moving at blurs. Because iirc they only moved in blurs... inside their armor. Nice try downplaying her and upplaying the Spartan out of armor.

 

She also managed to overpower Markus who was significantly powerful. That's more of a strength feat than the Van seeing prior to their combat, he deadlifted a stone wall that Selene had trapped him inside, where William (his brother) resided within in his prison. I'm not saying she's as powerful physically, I'm saying she managed to overpower him.

 

Linda still sticks out like a sore thumb with her olive colored armor. And she won't be able to hit Selene since Selene's speed is vastly superior to what she can comprehend, i.e. she'll be past a blur for a Spartan like a Spartan is a blur for us.

 

Selene actually has the sheer speed, reflexes, and reaction time to dodge bullet easily. Once again, I refer you to the first speed argument. Her speed is superior to a Spartan's and if you claim those can dodge bullets, Selene can, more easily so.

 

Please stop being daft - I'll repeat again. I already said Selene would find her handguns ineffective against Linda's armor - perhaps only good enough to bring the shields down. This is why I'm saying she'd need to go into hand to hand. It's not about what I want, it's about actually realizing that's really Selene's only option. And no, Linda would lose to Selene in hand to hand, she's significantly faster, a smaller frame, and stronger than her. Even if she's the same strength as a Spartan II, that's plenty enough to slam into the shield and then into the armor to kill its occupant simply because the sheer speed would augment the amount of blows and the actual striking force. 

 

Actually I was more under the impression that it was the sheer momentum the van had from her body-check, not the actual momentum from the Van's movement. And I never said she was in the several dozens tons category, I was skeptical of the idea but then you left while mistaking a word (as usual).

 

Also she's nowhere as good as Bullseye - she's a very good sniper, maybe on the same level of Punisher (He's actually the best sniper in Marvel if not amongst non-augmented) since he's shot past human levels.



#15 Bergy_Berg

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 06:11 PM

Those clips are pretty conflicting. When she's murdering people faster than they can react, she looks pretty impressive. But, when she's getting tossed around by the super lycan, I begin to question her abilities.



#16 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 06:19 PM

The super lycan is a hybrid and it was being showcased in terms of its abilities.



#17 Skirmisher

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 10:22 PM

I like how you're ignoring that in around 3 seconds, Selene moves from a room into a vent then down into a lower elevation then over a railing to get to the Scientist. While weakened and lethargic. That's significantly faster than Spartan in Armor moving at blurs. Because iirc they only moved in blurs... inside their armor. Nice try downplaying her and upplaying the Spartan out of armor.

Actually, If you time it, and base it off of how she's moved when we Can see her. She's not that fast. She Moves fast, yes, but it's not a fastness that would transfer into Hand to Hand combat. She's Acrobatically fast, and although she's is quite fast in hand to hand, she's demonstrated NOWHERE near the level of speed a Spartan has.

 

She also managed to overpower Markus who was significantly powerful. That's more of a strength feat than the Van seeing prior to their combat, he deadlifted a stone wall that Selene had trapped him inside, where William (his brother) resided within in his prison. I'm not saying she's as powerful physically, I'm saying she managed to overpower him.

Time? Where in the videos does it show this?

 

Linda still sticks out like a sore thumb with her olive colored armor. And she won't be able to hit Selene since Selene's speed is vastly superior to what she can comprehend, i.e. she'll be past a blur for a Spartan like a Spartan is a blur for us.

lol I love how you think like that. I mean, we've seen Selene Move, and it's not a Blur of movement... She jumps about fairly fast, but nowhere Near the Blur you say she'll move at...

 

Also...

Desert_zps6eb2ec73.png

 

 

Selene actually has the sheer speed, reflexes, and reaction time to dodge bullet easily. Once again, I refer you to the first speed argument. Her speed is superior to a Spartan's and if you claim those can dodge bullets, Selene can, more easily so.

Selene has NEVER shown the ability to dodge bullets, At all... She's dodged Aim, she's even Moved the mans arm holding the gun Out of the the way so he Couldn't shoot her. But she has NEVER dodged a bullet.

 

I have Never seen the speed, reflexes or Reaction time to dodge a bullet from Selene

 

 

Please stop being daft - I'll repeat again. I already said Selene would find her handguns ineffective against Linda's armor - perhaps only good enough to bring the shields down. This is why I'm saying she'd need to go into hand to hand. It's not about what I want, it's about actually realizing that's really Selene's only option. And no, Linda would lose to Selene in hand to hand, she's significantly faster, a smaller frame, and stronger than her. Even if she's the same strength as a Spartan II, that's plenty enough to slam into the shield and then into the armor to kill its occupant simply because the sheer speed would augment the amount of blows and the actual striking force. 

Yes, I agree that she would Need to enter into hand to hand to have a ghost of a chance at winning.

 

However, you are Wrong on the fact that Selene would win. Selene has been shown to be Slower then a Spartan, in all but Acrobatic speed, which without walls to run up or Roofs to climb through would benefit her not. Her Smaller Frame wouldn't give her much of an advantage either, given that Linda is faster and stronger then her. Oh, your next point was Strength... which is also wrong, given Spartan Strength feats over power Selene's Strength Feats.

 

 


Actually I was more under the impression that it was the sheer momentum the van had from her body-check, not the actual momentum from the Van's movement. And I never said she was in the several dozens tons category, I was skeptical of the idea but then you left while mistaking a word (as usual).

 

I left because I had a life, is that a problem for you? As to the Momentum, At her Best with the speed she had to gain, and the momentum she had to build, was a Tuesday for a Spartan.

 

 

Also she's nowhere as good as Bullseye - she's a very good sniper, maybe on the same level of Punisher (He's actually the best sniper in Marvel if not amongst non-augmented) since he's shot past human levels.

 

Actually, while perhaps not as good as Bullseye given his propensity to hit anything with anything... she's shown that she doesn't Miss, not even on targets that are Nigh Impossible shots, such as Three Banshee Pilots under 99% cover, while they were flying at 100km/hour, while hanging upside down, from over a kilometer away. All within as quick succession as her rifles cycle rate could allow.

 

That's Many Many Times better then Just The Punisher Level...



#18 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 10:54 PM

Actually, she is that fast and it would certainly transfer to hand to hand - see how she effortlessly maims people in all movies because they can't react to her speed in hand to hand. While that might not be enough for you considering these people weren't Spartans, the fact that her best speed feats in Awakening to date certainly push that to a possibility, and more so when you take into consideration that... she was weakened and lethargic, i.e. she had to put in decent to medium effort. So yes, they would transfer to that.

 

She moves fast enough that we don't necessarily see a clear outline of her. Not to mention the fact you tried to insinuate a Spartan out of armor was capable of pulling the same (when really it's when they're in armor they're capable of doing the same if not inferior) which makes me think you're downplaying her and upplaying your Spartan. There's also the instance where she evidently appears next to a scientist in his apartment akin to Teleporting as per the wiki. Want I find the clip?

 

Also yes, I can clearly see Master Chief against the background - Selene blending in was never the question. It was about Linda blending in and so far, from what I see of the image in the OP, it appears to be mostly sand and bones - I don't think there's vegetation like that which only hurts that even worse.

 

She has speed, reflexes, and reaction time superior to a Spartan. She can dodge a bullet if a Spartan can as you have made claims of before.

 

No, Selene hasn't been shown to be slower than a Spartan II. She's been shown to be faster. Her speed applies to her hand to hand, it isn't only acrobatical speed. What you're thinking is her agility, which plays part in her speed but her speed isn't entirely limited to that as you seem to be trying to force it so. If it comes to hand to hand, Selene would be able to deftly avoid blows, counter, block, and return.

 

And so far bodychecking a Van, where you said it would put her around Spartan in prior posts to now being lower then. You keep jumping around. Also you're implying that a Spartan can also output 180 tons of sheer momentum behind a van too as any Tuesdays would go? Cuz I was already skeptical of that in the wiki but the mention of it being applicable to the Spartan makes me think you're either downplaying or wanking.

 

Actually it would be have - had a life would mean you don't have one. Besides the point - it wasn't about you leaving, the point was you misunderstood what was said. There's also another instance where this happened but that's not the point - this was merely to clarify the misunderstanding about the van having momentum of 180 tons in its moving when it's actually that (apparently) when it gets bodychecked.

 

Actually lemme correct you there. Punisher's never actually missed either. He's also shot beyond human limits by far as per alien weaponry. There are times when he missed... when people like the Sentry stepped in to stop the shot. Etc. It's a matter of accuracy, not a matter of oooooh I can dangle from a tree and shoot perfectly - that's also acrobatics at play aside accuracy. The point is, regardless of the acrobatics, Punisher Level is hardcore.



#19 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 11:19 PM

BTW take another look at the first vid posted or some such... she evades a handgun round. After it's been discharged. Because you hear it and then she does so. And she's relatively close to the cop when he fires it. :) Before her upgrade btw. It's at around... 10 13 secs?



#20 Skirmisher

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 11:25 PM

Actually, she is that fast and it would certainly transfer to hand to hand - see how she effortlessly maims people in all movies because they can't react to her speed in hand to hand.

She maims REGULAR HUMANS all the time in hand to hand... Regular Human a Spartan is definitely not. In fact, putting a Regular Human into Mjolnir Armour literally tears them apart as it amplifies their movements so fast that it shatters their bones and rends their muscles to jelly.

 

While that might not be enough for you considering these people weren't Spartans, the fact that her best speed feats in Awakening to date certainly push that to a possibility, and more so when you take into consideration that... she was weakened and lethargic, i.e. she had to put in decent to medium effort. So yes, they would transfer to that.

From what I know of Healing Factors, she wasn't anywhere near Weakened or Lethargic. Maybe for the first few moments out of her Cryo, but once she got going, that was her All, and not the Decent to Medium you have her at... unless you want to downplay her Regeneration?

 

She moves fast enough that we don't necessarily see a clear outline of her. Not to mention the fact you tried to insinuate a Spartan out of armor was capable of pulling the same (when really it's when they're in armor they're capable of doing the same if not inferior) which makes me think you're downplaying her and upplaying your Spartan. There's also the instance where she evidently appears next to a scientist in his apartment akin to Teleporting as per the wiki. Want I find the clip?

I saw her Dive upwards into the ceiling, I didn't see her Dive through the rafters though, but they took a similar amount of time. Leading me to believe that her speed that you are Up Playing is only really her Acrobatic Speed. She showed Similar levels of speed in the Forest, doing pretty much the exact same thing, and Yes, it is my supported Opinion that a Spartan out of Armour and not weighted down by 1000lbs of Armour would be able to do a similar feat of acrobatics. Being able to dive flip a span of ~10m in under a second.

 

She has speed, reflexes, and reaction time superior to a Spartan. She can dodge a bullet if a Spartan can as you have made claims of before.

Where have you even come close to proving this? I mean, she's been shot regularly by people who have had the reflexes to follow her Aim Dodging. That's what she does, Aim Dodges, Nothing more... Except, you can't dodge what you can't see. So Even if Selene were to close into Hand to hand, despite the numerous rounds going down field, all perfectly targeted on the sweet spot of the brainstem... She would still be beat in Hand to Hand.

 

No, Selene hasn't been shown to be slower than a Spartan II. She's been shown to be faster. Her speed applies to her hand to hand, it isn't only acrobatical speed. What you're thinking is her agility, which plays part in her speed but her speed isn't entirely limited to that as you seem to be trying to force it so. If it comes to hand to hand, Selene would be able to deftly avoid blows, counter, block, and return.

I've seen her Hand to Hand and I've seen her Acrobatics... and the two are Nowhere near the level you are Claiming. In hand to hand, she Most Certainly hasn't moved in a Blur like you say she can, Which has been described of Spartans. The only thing you have to go on is Off Screen Dive Flips that show no more speed then her On screen Dive Flips, that while Fast I give you, don't translate to Hand to hand speed... As we see in her Hand to Hand fights.

 

 

 


And so far bodychecking a Van, where you said it would put her around Spartan in prior posts to now being lower then. You keep jumping around. Also you're implying that a Spartan can also output 180 tons of sheer momentum behind a van too as any Tuesdays would go? Cuz I was already skeptical of that in the wiki but the mention of it being applicable to the Spartan makes me think you're either downplaying or wanking.

So, you are Implying that Selene is 180 tons? Now THAT is utter wankage if I've heard Anything... I mean Wow...


 

 

Actually it would be have - had a life would mean you don't have one.

What?

 

Besides the point - it wasn't about you leaving, the point was you misunderstood what was said. There's also another instance where this happened but that's not the point - this was merely to clarify the misunderstanding about the van having momentum of 180 tons in its moving when it's actually that (apparently) when it gets bodychecked.

I don't quite understand what you're trying to say... If I am getting it right then you're still wrong.

 

In order to flip the Van like a Spartan does a Warhog, she had to be going at Full Speed, in a Linear direction, Full  Boar into the side of it. A Spartan grabs the bumper and lifts it like that.

 

Actually lemme correct you there. Punisher's never actually missed either. He's also shot beyond human limits by far as per alien weaponry. There are times when he missed... when people like the Sentry stepped in to stop the shot. Etc. It's a matter of accuracy, not a matter of oooooh I can dangle from a tree and shoot perfectly - that's also acrobatics at play aside accuracy. The point is, regardless of the acrobatics, Punisher Level is hardcore.

And I'm saying that Spartans are Hardcore Without their Armour... inside it adds a whole new level to their game.






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