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1:3 - Kuma vs. Riddick


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#1 UMPIRE

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 04:22 PM

SEASON 1, ROUND 3
Kuma
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Slot: Specialist - hand to hand combat, martial artist or melee weapon master
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Read more about Kuma at Wikipedia
Official Site: namco

Riddick
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Slot: Specialist - hand to hand combat, martial artist or melee weapon master
Season Wins: 0
Season Losses: 0
Read more about Riddick at Wikipedia
Official Site: Univeral Studios

Battle Terrain
Great Wall of Carnage
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#2 patrickthekid

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 06:01 PM

I'm... leaning on the bear so far. Kuma is pretty good, managing to beat Paul Phoenix.



#3 Skirmisher

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 06:40 PM

I'm... leaning on the bear so far. Kuma is pretty good, managing to beat Paul Phoenix.

And Riddick easily beat monsters that would teat the Bear a new one... Plus has weapons like Rifles, Shotguns, Kinetic Pulse guns/pistols, as well as swords.
 
Seeing as how it's the Melee master spot though, I doubt I can give him ranged weapons :( ... Oh well, he still evicerates the bear like he did to the Night Hunters of M6-117, or the Wampa like creature named an Urzo from planet U.V.6. As well as the large and highly dangerous unclassified creatures deep within the bowels of Butchers Bay.

 

A Bear wouldn't stand a ghost of a chance, this only only Doesn't stand a chance even with it's martial arts.



#4 Confession FPT

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 08:58 PM

Have you seen a super-Kuma-kung-fu-combo? He's more than jst a strong animal, he has a fighting style and strategy. 



#5 Skirmisher

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 09:57 PM

Have you seen a super-Kuma-kung-fu-combo? He's more than jst a strong animal, he has a fighting style and strategy. 

From the look of it, I'm not impressed... He'd still be too slow to deal with Riddick.

 

Before the beat even knows what hit him, his intestines would be spilling across the bricks of the wall they're fighting on...



#6 Jeremi

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 01:11 AM

This fight is RIDDICKulous!



#7 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 01:18 AM

Kuma's being underestimated in my opinion anyways.



#8 Jeremi

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 01:20 AM

Yeah I think this could be a pretty interesting fight.



#9 Skirmisher

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 01:32 AM

Explinations of your opinions is required in a debate...

 

I mean, Grizzly Bear, yeah, ok... Smart enough to become a martial arts master? Ok, still going to die here...

 

 

Wrath of the Furyans

Aside from helping Riddick unlock his eyeshine, the character Shirah also either allows or helps Riddick discover his ability to unleash a sort of energy wave. It is shown in the director's cut of The Chronicles of Riddick after she lays her hand on Riddick's chest, leaving a glowing blue hand print, and says, "this mark carries the anger of an entire race... but it's going to hurt". After either receiving a shot from Vaako's energy handgun or a fraction of a second before the discharge of said weapon, she immediately emits a large blast of blue energy from Riddick (or Riddick himself does so with her guidance), leaving the group of surrounding Necromongers dead. This ability is also displayed off screen in Escape from Butcher Bay.

 

As well, Riddick himself is a master of close combat

Riddick is in superlative physical condition and is an exceptional fighter with or without the use of his eyes. Whether as a result of his Furyan heritage or simply training, Riddick is stronger, faster, more agile, tougher, more resistant to damage and injury, possessing more acute senses, immense stamina, and superior healing when compared to most humans; he is shown on more than one occasion dislocating his limbs for brief moments with only slight signs of discomfort. In general, Riddick possesses an abnormally high threshold of pain and psychologically channels what pain he does feel into anger.

Riddick's abilities at hand-to-hand combat is a mix of krav maga, eskrima, and ninjutsu; he uses his formidable fighting skills while confronting one of the night-creatures of Pitch Black with only his bare hands and a shiv he had made, killing it with relative ease, as well as defeating one of the Lord Marshall's best Necromonger warriors in a matter of seconds in Chronicles. Also, he was able to hold off the Lord Marshall and even injure him which the Lord Marshall admitted hadn't happened in a long time. While Riddick was no match for him in speed, he was able to hold off the Lord Marshall for several minutes.



#10 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 01:43 AM

Defeated Paul Phoenix, a hardcore martial artist.

 

Is the Bodyguard of Heihachi MIshima. Heihachi doesn't trust anyone else.

 

Has literally been trained by Heihachi. Heihachi saw insane potential inside him.

 

Has a taste for Human Flesh.

 

Returned to the Wilds for further training to get back into nature and further expand his capabilities.

 

Given the Strength and Durability of his being a Grizzly and the Unusual Intellect behind Kuma, combined with Martial Arts Training received from Heihachi... he's going to hit hard. Extremely hard. Like limbs dismembering hard.

 

Though he's been  easily defeated by Jin - Heihachi's Grandson, Jin is one of the more powerful entities in Tekken who would thrash Riddick just as well.

 

Yes, he is being underestimated. He is at least capable of standing on even footing with Riddick. :)



#11 Skirmisher

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 01:45 AM

Yes, he is being underestimated. He is at least capable of standing on even footing with Riddick. :)

Then it falls to their respective inteliginces... which even though a smart bear, Riddick would be smarter...

 

Despite being a common thug and his harsh upbringing and violent attitude, Riddick has been shown to have a certain knack for deduction, rapidly deducing what had happened to the original inhabitants of the mining base where he and the other crash survivors had been staying, as well as finding the creature's blind spot in Pitch Black and swiftly deducing what had caused the firefight between the Warden's and Toombs' men in Chronicles. He has also been described as having "a knack for escape", surviving not only the Lord Marshall's purge of the Furyans when he was an infant but subsequently escaping from various prisons over the course of his life. He is also able to quickly judge the quality of, and find even seemingly minor flaws in most weaponry, down to very specific details. In one case, Riddick concluded that the prized dagger of a Necromonger was "a half gram too heavy on the back end" after an inspection lasting all of a couple of seconds. His only weakness (other than light sensitivity, leaving him in pain when in daylight without his goggles), as stated in the Pitch Black DVD, is his soft spot for children and anyone who really grows on him (those people become his friends), which resulted in his capture by the bounty hunter Johns (Cole Hauser). While he may be a ruthless killer when necessary, Riddick has been known to help people in need only if they don't slow him down or make him vulnerable. The only exception to this was when, in Pitch Black, he returned with Carolyn to help the others, after she pleaded with him. He also mentions on board the Dark Athena that people he helps often end up dead.

In addition to raw analytical power, Riddick is generally an astute judge of character, especially in the dark side of human nature. A killer himself and resident of several maximum security facilities, he is often able to predict an individual's negative impulses before they act on them. He has been known to be surprised on occasion, such as when Carolyn Fry in Pitch Black altruistically gave up a fast escape to save Jack and Imam from the alien creatures. Riddick was also surprised when he underestimated Jack's (Kyra's) affection toward him between Pitch Black and The Chronicles of Riddick, only learning of it after she had become a mercenary and resident of a maximum security prison in order to see him once again. Otherwise, he correctly predicted which of the group in Pitch Black would turn on each other (in particular that Johns would try to double-cross Fry), and that the mercs and guards on Crematoria would turn on each other prior to his escape attempt.



#12 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 01:51 AM

I'm seeing common thug, which doesn't help.

 

He doesn't display much intelligence other than the common outsmarting.

 

Kuma is a bear in his endings that's been shown to be capable of handling corporate management and outsmarting Mister Heihachi who tried to take the corporation back.



#13 KevinDWolf93

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 12:34 PM

Pretty much, to counter-point Riddick's far from a common thug. Skir keeps posting the comment and you oughta read past the words common thug. We do see in his mediums(ex. Escape from Butcher bay, Pitch Black, and even the new film trailer) that he's very clever in a combat sense, he's got the instincts of a hunter and his night-visions a good example of that and he's a storng and skilled mofo(bing played by Vin Diesel sorta goes hand in hand with that). Im not sure how corporate building lends to a doing better in a fast-paced battle but ok I'll give you that.

 

However, if Kuma's going to be treating this as a martial arts fight then I gotta say that's the biggest disadvantage he could have period. Kuma can fight, there's no doubt there, but go ahead and youtube any fight that Riddick has over two movies, an animated short, vg cutscenes, and a film trailer. He can move very well, and does thingalike test of strength or straight-up dodging when need be. However the second he gets the upper-hand Riddick's next move tends to be doing everything in his power to straight-up murder whatever he's in combat with. If Kuma can't react properly or isn't prepared Skir put what happens next pretty aptly. Riddick doesn't dick around.

(Some examples, sorry bout extra video length, the leadin usually helps mood)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3x2He3-288



#14 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 12:36 PM

I know - I already covered this with Skir in mibbit but thanks :)



#15 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 12:56 PM

  14:41 kwolf kuma needs his intesitines I think

 

Much like how Riddick needs a limb or so, considering a smack from Kuma combined with martial arts, a bear's ferocity, and bloodlust for those in his way will be dismembering for sure. And before anyone says he's slow - he spars with Heihachi Mishima and is literally capable of going through tourneys with other insane martial artists. I suggest you don't discount the possibility of the event happening. What's more, he's likely capable of countering it.

 

  14:40 kwolf

besides Im pretty sure a capoeirista ripping up concrete with his 21 air juggle combo is game ,mechanics

 

I suppose having an intelligent bear bodyguard the head of a family who's known for punting its progeny off cliffs in order to ensure they're worthy of the family name is also game mechanics :P In all reality, you're attempting to use this to discount the actual sheer badassery of the martial artists in Tekken? I mean sure, the only ones who might prove vastly superhuman are the likes of Ogre, Nightmare, and the Mishima family but even in real life, trained hardcore martial artists can shatter concrete so I do not see why martial artists blown of out proportion in a game like Tekken wouldn't be able to let alone technically being superior to normal humans in reality (something like how Marvel's humans aren't really human but yet human by their standards, if you can get where I'm trying to go with this.) Heihachi is a very good example (he lacks the Devil Gene unlike his father, son, and grandson) since he's purely human in the game and has gone through some ridiculous shit (most prominent example coming to mind being covered in JACKs that exploded him into the horizon where he was unconscious for months in the wild but came back).

 

  14:41 kwolf

and he believe sin a fair fight

 

He really doesn't - the last time he was set on defeating Paul Phoenix, he was entirely bent on slapping and eating people who'd get in his way. This is further exemplified by the fact he went back into the wild to rekindle his feral side due to being in civilization for long. All this to defeat Paul Phoenix. Plus the Mishima family aren't exactly renown for fair fights - he idolizes Heihachi.

 

As for the intellect - the combat instances weren't being questioned - I challenged Skir's claim of him being smarter than Kuma, which isn't true. The term you want is cunning which fits the scenarios of escaping from butcher bay, the heavy max prison in Chronicles, outlasting the beasties in pitch black, etc. To further prove my point of Kuma being likely smarter - he picks up Japanese fluently in months, learns how to excel in Martial Arts swiftly, etc, etc. He's also been capable of outsmarting strategists like Heihachi who's overthrown his own family, etc.

 

As for said beasties, I made it explicitly clear to Skir he did not defeat them easily. Defeat them yes, but easily denotes a whole different spectrum.

 

Seriously, all this was to prove that Kuma isn't just a simple bear with simple martial arts. This was to prove that Kuma is capable of standing on even footing with Riddick. Note I never once said he'd most likely win in a straight fight - clarification is key. :)



#16 Culwych1

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 03:50 PM

I haven't decided yet, but does the trap filled environment favour Riddick here?

 

It is a question of skill and strength versus deadliness and stealth. 

 

Edit: Why has there not been a formal Po vs Kuma yet! This is why rumbles are annoying. 



#17 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 04:06 PM

Po would thrash Kuma... he just pulls out a win like that, heh.



#18 Skirmisher

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 04:52 PM

I haven't decided yet, but does the trap filled environment favour Riddick here?

 

It is a question of skill and strength versus deadliness and stealth. 

 

Edit: Why has there not been a formal Po vs Kuma yet! This is why rumbles are annoying. 

Yes, That's where I was going for with Cunning, While the bear's not dumb, I doubt he's use to fighing in terrain that is bent on trying to kill you... like Riddick has.

 

Riddick's survival instincts, Furian instincts, and lifestyle make a trap filled environment a paradice of posibilities for him to win.



#19 KevinDWolf93

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 04:58 PM

14:41 kwolf kuma needs his intesitines I think

 

Much like how Riddick needs a limb or so, considering a smack from Kuma combined with martial arts, a bear's ferocity, and bloodlust for those in his way will be dismembering for sure. And before anyone says he's slow - he spars with Heihachi Mishima and is literally capable of going through tourneys with other insane martial artists. I suggest you don't discount the possibility of the event happening. What's more, he's likely capable of countering it.

Why u no directly reply to my argument Q_Q? I'd like to see it...oh well, anyways I figured why the hell not.

 

 

Right, however you haven't painted the picture where Riddick goes in underestimating /a bear/whethe ror not that was your intent I was using that as argument ammo. Im not underestimating anybodys speed, I just suggested a scenario where Kuma doesn't know what he's getting into when picking a fight with Riddick and Rididck capitalizes on a brief mistake, which isn't impossible I think. Riddick could definitely be killed if the bear gets the upperhand and mauls him, but you haven't painted a situation in a straight fight where that could happen when Riddick's pretty aware they are in a fight to the death. What you're saying implies that Kuma figures this guy's another fighter who he's gonna go 2 or 3 rounds with. He's a skilled fighter,thats cool, but is he gonna approach it like a martial artist or a bear? It's an important detail, regardless of where further debate goes.

14:40 kwolf

besides Im pretty sure a capoeirista ripping up concrete with his 21 air juggle combo is game ,mechanics

 

I suppose having an intelligent bear bodyguard the head of a family who's known for punting its progeny off cliffs in order to ensure they're worthy of the family name is also game mechanics xtongue.png.pagespeed.ic.86ZlZhEa46.png In all reality, you're attempting to use this to discount the actual sheer badassery of the martial artists in Tekken? I mean sure, the only ones who might prove vastly superhuman are the likes of Ogre, Nightmare, and the Mishima family but even in real life, trained hardcore martial artists can shatter concrete so I do not see why martial artists blown of out proportion in a game like Tekken wouldn't be able to let alone technically being superior to normal humans in reality (something like how Marvel's humans aren't really human but yet human by their standards, if you can get where I'm trying to go with this.) Heihachi is a very good example (he lacks the Devil Gene unlike his father, son, and grandson) since he's purely human in the game and has gone through some ridiculous shit (most prominent example coming to mind being covered in JACKs that exploded him into the horizon where he was unconscious for months in the wild but

I'm not exactly, no. I can admit these guys are durable and badass no problem; I'm just arguing the concept of broad strokes and what gameplay mechanics would imply. Yeah maybe they can break stone with their fist easily, but I'm talking about an individual's ability to do the said 21 air juggle combo with his feet and then the other guys up for the next round no problem. Or to make a different example to make my point, Yoshimitsu: can we say he's a good swordsman? Probably. Can we say he's been beaten? sure. Can we say that Eddie Gordo's skin is resistant to swords and then the proof is to show an arcade battle where Yoshimitsu cuts up Jin a few dozen times before the player makes a come from behind win? No, probably not, and that's the only thing I was trying to say(and it was in conjunction with the first statement, there wasn't that big a need to separate the comments). He's fought guys with swords, but that doesn't mean he can't be sliced open and skinned as easily as a regular bear. The exploding JACK's I would chalk up to the tone of the game series, or at the very least concede that heihachi on his own is just made of iron. Still think he could get his throat slit is all....

  14:41 kwolf

and he believe sin a fair fight

 

He really doesn't - the last time he was set on defeating Paul Phoenix, he was entirely bent on slapping and eating people who'd get in his way. This is further exemplified by the fact he went back into the wild to rekindle his feral side due to being in civilization for long. All this to defeat Paul Phoenix. Plus the Mishima family aren't exactly renown for fair fights - he idolizes Heihachi.

 

As for the intellect - the combat instances weren't being questioned - I challenged Skir's claim of him being smarter than Kuma, which isn't true. The term you want is cunning which fits the scenarios of escaping from butcher bay, the heavy max prison in Chronicles, outlasting the beasties in pitch black, etc. To further prove my point of Kuma being likely smarter - he picks up Japanese fluently in months, learns how to excel in Martial Arts swiftly, etc, etc. He's also been capable of outsmarting strategists like Heihachi who's overthrown his own family, etc.

 

As for said beasties, I made it explicitly clear to Skir he did not defeat them easily. Defeat them yes, but easily denotes a whole different spectrum.

 

Seriously, all this was to prove that Kuma isn't just a simple bear with simple martial arts. This was to prove that Kuma is capable of standing on even footing with Riddick. Note I never once said he'd most likely win in a straight fight - clarification is key. xsmile.png.pagespeed.ic.5Yux4gu5_h.png

Hmm, I might've either not meant what I said or misworded the mib post(probably another reason why you should've replied to my forum post which said much the same thing -_-). I can admit the statement he believes in having a fair fight might not fit, but again since it's apart of the the whole bit you cut-up I think I mean't to say something along the lines of what my forum post says(ie. if he goes into this with the mindset of a martial arts fight, then he's gonna be in for a surprise). I'd like proof of the first paragraph's statements; mid-round bio, backstory, anything like that. Shouldn't be hard, but fair enough about him being capable of fighting dirty.

 

Well having personally played Butcher Bay I can say pretty clearly it's less cunning and more he's just that good at making plans(seriously, it's nuts). I'll give you the tactics we usually see out of him are things like misdirection and surprise, but there's been plenty to say he can do more than that and not enough to say it won't work on Kuma. I remember giving you the points on being intelligent, but learning capability could very easily not play into a tense situation that he'd need time to adapt to(read traps or Vin Diesel whose doing his best batman impression). Fair enough though.

 

If Skir said defeated easily then ok that's up for debate. I agreed to the extent that he won those bouts, and the Pitch Black vid is an example of that. He's in test of strength with the flying beast and the second that thing rears it's head for a move, Riddick draws his blades during the telegraph and forces it's insides over on to it's outside. Deadliest warrior style, that particular move I can see working fairly consistently especially if it were early in the fight and they confronted each other.

 

Ok.....and well I'm giving counterpoints. I mean even if you're just playing devils advocate, I can still question them ya? Personally I'm not sure I underestimated Kuma, sorry if that the implications but this IS a debate...right?

 

@Culwych- I think skir's comment is a fair representation of that.



#20 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 05:32 PM

Why u no directly reply to my argument Q_Q? I'd like to see it...oh well, anyways I figured why the hell not.

 

I was replying to each point that came in mibbit - so I did. Not sure why you're missing it or so?

 


Right, however you haven't painted the picture where Riddick goes in underestimating /a bear/whethe ror not that was your intent I was using that as argument ammo. Im not underestimating anybodys speed, I just suggested a scenario where Kuma doesn't know what he's getting into when picking a fight with Riddick and Rididck capitalizes on a brief mistake, which isn't impossible I think. Riddick could definitely be killed if the bear gets the upperhand and mauls him, but you haven't painted a situation in a straight fight where that could happen when Riddick's pretty aware they are in a fight to the death. What you're saying implies that Kuma figures this guy's another fighter who he's gonna go 2 or 3 rounds with. He's a skilled fighter,thats cool, but is he gonna approach it like a martial artist or a bear? It's an important detail, regardless of where further debate goes.

 

First things first, I'm pretty sure Riddick's never met a bear but that's not the point - he's certainly fought meaner stuff - I wasn't implying he'd underestimate Kuma - I was saying Skir was underestimating Kuma himself. Again, not sure how you arrived at this conclusion. Second - Kuma can most definitely differentiate between a tourney setting and a match to the death, he's a friggin' bear and an intelligent one. Dunno how you arrived to this as well given all the other stuff I've laid in prior posts. Reasoning consists of his intellect, training with Heihachi, and actually training to rekindle his instincts in the wild, experience in the tourney and so on and forth. If Riddick knows this is a match to the death, why doesn't Kuma?

 

I'm not exactly, no. I can admit these guys are durable and badass no problem; I'm just arguing the concept of broad strokes and what gameplay mechanics would imply. Yeah maybe they can break stone with their fist easily, but I'm talking about an individual's ability to do the said 21 air juggle combo with his feet and then the other guys up for the next round no problem. Or to make a different example to make my point, Yoshimitsu: can we say he's a good swordsman? Probably. Can we say he's been beaten? sure. Can we say that Eddie Gordo's skin is resistant to swords and then the proof is to show an arcade battle where Yoshimitsu cuts up Jin a few dozen times before the player makes a come from behind win? No, probably not, and that's the only thing I was trying to say(and it was in conjunction with the first statement, there wasn't that big a need to separate the comments). He's fought guys with swords, but that doesn't mean he can't be sliced open and skinned as easily as a regular bear. The exploding JACK's I would chalk up to the tone of the game series, or at the very least concede that heihachi on his own is just made of iron. Still think he could get his throat slit is all....

 

So you would that they might even be able to give Riddick a decent fight if not defeat him given their capabilities and whatnot? They're not just any martial artists, they're amongst the best... in Tekken's setting that is. And I kinda figured from the game mechanics but I think my point's been made clearly. :)

 

 


Hmm, I might've either not meant what I said or misworded the mib post(probably another reason why you should've replied to my forum post which said much the same thing -_-). I can admit the statement he believes in having a fair fight might not fit, but again since it's apart of the the whole bit you cut-up I think I mean't to say something along the lines of what my forum post says(ie. if he goes into this with the mindset of a martial arts fight, then he's gonna be in for a surprise). I'd like proof of the first paragraph's statements; mid-round bio, backstory, anything like that. Shouldn't be hard, but fair enough about him being capable of fighting dirty.

 

Again not sure where you're pulling this from - he uses martial arts. Doesn't mean he always goes into that mindset. For example - Paul Phoenix. Everyone else he came across, he wasn't in mindset for a martial arts, he was in the mindset to eat their face and knock them out of the way just to get to Paul Phoenix. I said this maybe several times now. It's in the wiki -

 

After losing to Paul Phoenix in the last Tournament, Kuma realized that he had lost touch with his animal roots. As long as he was Heihachi's pet, he would be unable to harness the power of his natural instincts, no matter how much he trained. Determined to revive his wild instincts, Kuma trained by himself in the mountains of Hokkaido (a northern island of Japan).

Life in the wilderness was more brutal than any training Kuma went through with Heihachi. Despite this, Kuma continued his harsh regimen because he burned with the desire to defeat Paul. His efforts paid off- his skills improved dramatically to the point where he developed his own attacks.

 

He obtained this drive from his father, who did pretty much the same thing. And...

 

Kuma finally defeated Paul in the King of Iron Fist Tournament 4. However, his master Heihachi was dead. Kuma was alone without Heihachi.

 

Well having personally played Butcher Bay I can say pretty clearly it's less cunning and more he's just that good at making plans(seriously, it's nuts). I'll give you the tactics we usually see out of him are things like misdirection and surprise, but there's been plenty to say he can do more than that and not enough to say it won't work on Kuma. I remember giving you the points on being intelligent, but learning capability could very easily not play into a tense situation that he'd need time to adapt to(read traps or Vin Diesel whose doing his best batman impression). Fair enough though.

 

iirc, most his plans were of the stealth aspect aside getting shit done were they not? Cunning plays a very large part in that. :)

 

The point wasn't that Kuma was superior in cunning or out-planning Riddick - I was countermanding Riddick being smarter. Three different distinct things.

 

If Skir said defeated easily then ok that's up for debate. I agreed to the extent that he won those bouts, and the Pitch Black vid is an example of that. He's in test of strength with the flying beast and the second that thing rears it's head for a move, Riddick draws his blades during the telegraph and forces it's insides over on to it's outside. Deadliest warrior style, that particular move I can see working fairly consistently especially if it were early in the fight and they confronted each other.

 

It isn't up for debate, you see Riddick straining. That isn't "easily". It'd be easier for Riddick to pull off with a bear though I'd agree but not exactly a martial arts trained bear. Granted I'm not saying this is a defense that's is end all beats all.

 

Ok.....and well I'm giving counterpoints. I mean even if you're just playing devils advocate, I can still question them ya? Personally I'm not sure I underestimated Kuma, sorry if that the implications but this IS a debate...right?

 

And you seem to be misunderstanding several things let alone not getting that I'm not debating for who to win, I'm clarifying, elaborating, and expanding Kuma past being a simple bear with simple martial arts ability. You want my opinion?

 

It'd be Riddick given the environment and his badassery. :)






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