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The Batman Vs. The Punisher. Winner Takes All!


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#61 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:04 PM

FWIW, I think Treacherous said it best so far. Here are my thoughts, which have mostly been expressed by others.
- At long range the Punisher is extremely dangerous. Batman has to find a way to close the distance or he will be killed.
- Batman's advantage at long range is that he is smart, unpredictable, and extremely stealthy. He is too smart to try to close the distance while he's a target.
- If Punisher gets a bead on Batman at long range, the odds favor him. Batman can do broken field running and use cover, but if he doesn't find a way to vanish the odds against him are ridiculous. (Something like a flashbomb or a smoke grenade to obscure Punisher's vision while he slips away are probably his best bets.
- Getting close to Punisher is dangerous because of booby traps. These will be well prepared and hard to spot, even for Batman. IMO, if he has enough time, he can find and disarm them all, but if he's having to dodge bullets at the same time, Punisher has a big advantage.
- Once the fight comes to throwing range, the odds get a lot better for Batman. Regular batarangs aren't a match for a deadly marksman with firearms, but explosive batarangs will make a big difference.
- If Batman can get to hand to hand range, the odds shift to his favor. At this range he's not fighting Punisher's fight any longer.

And that last is kind of the point. Neither man wants to fight the other where he is strongest. Batman needs to plan to get in close fast. Punisher wants to keep Batman at long range for as long as possible. Batman wants to use stealth, and keep Punisher waithing and (hopefully) getting frustrated. Punisher wants to keep up the pressure and force Batman to make so many quick decisions that he makes a mistake.

I think this set up, with the guys starting face to face puts the odds in Punisher's favor. Batman has to cover a lot of ground to get into the range he wants. Despite this, I think Batman's stealth skills can manage it. Since punisher is probably setting up to snipe and guarding himself with traps, Batman should avoid going after him. He can blow up his van and harass him until he draws him out. If Batman can make Punisher come to him, he wins this.

#62 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:05 PM

How does that make Punisher win?


Punisher easily does the more ridiculous stuff, duh.

#63 bigballerju

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:23 PM

Good analysis Dinsdale and I agree with it. Keep in mind Punisher has fought Winter Soldier, Daredevil, Bullseye, Spiderman, and others in H2H combat. He would do well but true in close combat Batman has the advantages. In addition taunting may not work with Punisher too much. Batman doesn't have much to taunt Punisher with while Batman on the other hand does. If anything Punisher could taunt Batman and bring him closer to him. Punisher could taunt Batman with the fact he is going to go to Gotham and kill every scum there to piss off Batman. He could start taunting Batman with all of that and how he will kill every criminal in Brazil. Batman would get pissed and let anger take over him. Taunting Batman has worked before. Joker and other villains have proven that.

Oh and Legacy Batman doesn't have the experience or skill Punisher has with explosives. So yes Punisher would use explosives on Batman he has never encountered and won't see coming. Hell Joker and other villains catch Batman off guard all the time with explosives. They aren't even close to the skill Punisher with explosives, weapons, strategy, tactics, prep time and more has.

#64 KidStranglehold

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:26 PM

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#65 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:03 PM

Fuck off Michael Jackson gif.

PS: I still miss you and your good songs but the gif still needs to die.

#66 KidStranglehold

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:23 PM

*vulgarity* off Michael Jackson gif.

PS: I still miss you and your good songs but the gif still needs to die.


But that's my favorite gif... :(

Especially with situations like this.

#67 force_echo

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:29 PM

Batman's not getting close. His stealth is being overrated, especially against Punisher's own stealth and, more importantly, equipment. Punisher has the advantage the vast majority of the fight. Even if Batman gets close he has to contend with Punisher's shotgun abilities, which are nearly impossible to dodge. The Punisher is not going to be drawn out wherever Batman wants him. He's patient, calculating, and he knows he has the advantage.

#68 bigballerju

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:41 PM

Yup and Punisher could keep Batman moving with a couple of blasts from his rocket launcher. Batman won't be staying in one place. Punisher with prep is dangerous as hell because that means he has had prep to gather intel weapons, gadgets, and equipment of all sorts. Punisher has been known to have contacts to in getting all sorts of gear when he needs it. Batman is facing someone on his level who won't hold back and first chance he gets will go for the kill. Punisher could sit back from a distance and just create traps all around him. Then he could simply wait for as long as possible until Batman decides to make his move. Batman in this scene knowing his character is the one to go in for close combat because he won't have any long ranged weapons to hit Punisher with.. His batrangs and usually gear won't do it here. Punisher has taken a ass-kicking from super-powered beings. Batman is gone need a lot more to bring him down. Also hiding is useless as Punisher will have night goggles and all sorts of equipment.

#69 xLEGACYx

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 04:21 AM

Only problem with this is everyone is saying Batman cant beat Punisher's explosive and gun skills. Thats all Batman has ever done. Also show an example of something Punisher can do that Batman hasn't countered to the same or a greater degree.

Saying his stealth wont be enough is underestimating him. I cite Batman hiding from the league for an hour in the watchtower. PIS or not, he did it.

Disappears, while weakened while right in front of Bane. This is Bane that is super strong and super smart from the New 52
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Disappears from Flash

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Also, no one has really talked much about what batman can do with the prep and a remote batcave. He would not have his most exotic gadgets but still his standard stuff. The batmobile, various types of suits, any hand held weapon he normally uses, and various neurotoxins ( fear gas, knockout gas, etc)

While yes Batman would have to get close, he can easily avoid castle long enough to do that.

#70 treacherous

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 07:14 AM

Yeah Batman's stealth is nigh unmatched. This is the guy who disappears while you are looking at him.

Again, If avoiding getting shot was first on Batman's training, avoiding detection was third, actual detective work was second.

This is what the guy does best. Better than anybody.


#71 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 09:52 AM

Also hiding is useless as Punisher will have night goggles and all sorts of equipment.


This is an exaggeration. Punisher's equipment will make it harder to hide from him, but there are ways to beat night vision equipment, infra red, and pretty much any kind of detection equipment.

It will not be easy for Batman to sneak up on the Punisher and it will not be easy for the Punisher to spot Batman. The conflict is going to push both of them to their limits and it's not a sure thing for either of them.

I'd say Batman wins this set up 6 times out of 10.

#72 thanosisawesome

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:13 AM

Batman's not getting close. His stealth is being overrated, especially against Punisher's own stealth and, more importantly, equipment. Punisher has the advantage the vast majority of the fight. Even if Batman gets close he has to contend with Punisher's shotgun abilities, which are nearly impossible to dodge. The Punisher is not going to be drawn out wherever Batman wants him. He's patient, calculating, and he knows he has the advantage.


Why? He could sneak up on Castle. And since Batman is fighting someone who is a gun nut, he's going to be wearing heavier armor than usual. When Batman gets close, Frank would be disarmed and beaten to a pulp. Batman may take some rounds (doubt it) but as I stated, he will be wearing armor that offers significant protection from ballistics.

#73 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:15 AM

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A good example of overcoming not one, not two, but three physically superior combatants, two of which are better at close up fights then Punisher and one of which is much more experienced, with the ability of preparation.

#74 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:23 AM

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By Castle's own words, trying to shoot a speedster(Burnout) was like trying to shoot an F-16 moving at Mach 2 with a peagun.

Next panel, direct shot to the shoulder after tactical revising. Or the time he shot Spider Man's webshooters off clean.

#75 thanosisawesome

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:28 AM

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A good example of overcoming not one, not two, but three physically superior combatants, two of which are better at close up fights then Punisher and one of which is much more experienced, with the ability of preparation.


This happened because A) Castle got the drop on his three opponents, because Spider-Man didn't fight smart( a mistake Batman wouldn't make) and because apparently Daredevil had a seizure when he was attacked, or temporarily forgot his training.


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By Castle's own words, trying to shoot a speedster(Burnout) was like trying to shoot an F-16 moving at Mach 2 with a peagun.

Next panel, direct shot to the shoulder after tactical revising. Or the time he shot Spider Man's webshooters off clean.


This is very impressive. But A) Batman is wearing armor, and B) from the scans I provided, Batman is more than capable of avoiding Castles shots, especially since he blocked sub-machine gun fire with his arm.

Now here are a couple of Batman's good showings.

batvsninmanbats.jpg


detective7-batvsgothamsuperogues1.jpg
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#76 treacherous

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:39 AM

Nice scans Nova. I love how Spidey and Daredevil hit the road as soon as they read the note! And still didn't warn Wolvie.

I wonder how far away Punisher was, because all three of those guys have abilities that can detect him. He did use a rocket launcher though. Has a lot of distance.

Again traps in traps in traps. This is a good fight, no doubt.

#77 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:41 AM

Straight up fight at close range? Punisher has Bucky Barnes dead to rights.

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#78 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:46 AM

Btw Thanos, no Batman would not be able to avoid the shots, because he's not a speedster like Burnout. :)

#79 thanosisawesome

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:49 AM

Straight up fight at close range? Punisher has Bucky Barnes dead to rights.

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And Batman takes on multiple Talons, beating them down. Also, Barnes is no Batman.

#80 thanosisawesome

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:50 AM

Btw Thanos, no Batman would not be able to avoid the shots, because he's not a speedster like Burnout. data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABQAAAAUCAMAAAC6V+0/AAAABGdBTUEAANbY1E9YMgAAAiJQTFRFV0AI////V0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIV0AIW0IIV0AIW0IIW0QJW0IIV0AIV0AIV0AIQzQQa0oJbEwJbVELbk4Kb0wJb1QMcVILc1cMlF8Ll2oNmXEQnn8Vo2gLpGgLpGoMpW8NpXEOp3YQq4MUrH0Rro0Xr4QUsI4XsZAYuXQNwIkSwI0VyIAOyocQyqcdy4QQzosS1Kod1rIf3ZMS3ZUT3a8c3o4Q3rcf4ZER5JUR5ZYS5ZgS5aIW55wT554U6KkZ6qQV6qUW6qYW6qcX66gW7Lsf7a0X7a0Y7a8Z7bEb7rAY7rEY7rMa7rMb77EY77Ma77QZ77cd77oc8bgb8bkb8bob8b4f8cUh8skh87wb870c88If88kk89Im9Mwl9cMd9cch9sUe9scf9sgg9skh9swi9swk98og988k99Mm+c8h+dMk+dYm+9Mh+9Mi+9Uj+9Yk+9cl+9gl+9kn+9on+9oo+9op+9so/Ncl/Ngl/Non/Nso/N0o/N0p/dkk/dok/d4o/eAp/eEp/tsk/twk/t0k/t4l/uAn/uAp/uIq/uMp/uMq/uQq/94l/94m/98l/98m/+Am/+An/+En/+Eo/+Io/+Ip/+Mo/+Mp/+Mq/+Qp/+Qq/+Qr/+Uq/+UrX/9jcQAAACd0Uk5TAAABCQoLHCYnMDY4OjuCg4WHiImKm56fx8jJys3P1Ofp6enq7/DyAdnyKAAAAUZJREFUGNNt0b9Kw1AYhvH3OzlJ2qRpiiVCIxUUdXIRdFd0cfQOvA4HF3UWr0Fw83J0VEQpaLX/myY5Od/n0FGfS/g9RPibhgBwfB00MMuqwgIgDQBelMbRLj9NRp/TEgCRKD9Jjjq+FIvy9fm7XzA5BC/dPuu00tjx0EhsubCk4Mbd03Z6DVq5TcJ4J21qaPido6BNsACaeR50J1mm4cVhXQTCAPmeG0QuFIKWH4sFiwVHNa3jOjRqG2KV3FjgikVEtA8FkvzCMphZeLZ4rARQyF8KWGZhFlsYmMpAYTEuzi8ti3A1Hz4cmlEGh5x64u3fHSjJsp/7k1H+NTBEemVrL6o9AACOx9nH27Aiktra+nboKnA5n5TDt15BGih7ZrQZaqlMVbwP+gYgEsCLVptRk6fjWX9aAkS0RHbDBmZzs0Sm/3b8Apz1nhT0ICJTAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC


Burnout was running past Punisher, trying to avoid his aim. If Castle had a bead on Batman, Batman is fast enough to dodge the bullets after it's fired. Yes, that's not humanly possible, but it's a comic. And Batman has done so before.




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