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The Batman Vs. The Punisher. Winner Takes All!


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#221 force_echo

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 04:35 PM

No, it wasn't. There is nothing at all indicating that Batman stopped the bullets after they were fired, it's in the same panel, which could mean he raised his hand up before the thug fired. I also notice how you're not addressing my other points. There's also the fact that the rounds the Punisher is firing will be almost 3 times as fast as that standard 9mm handgun round, as per the table Dinsdale put up.

#222 thanosisawesome

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 04:50 PM

No, it wasn't. There is nothing at all indicating that Batman stopped the bullets after they were fired, it's in the same panel, which could mean he raised his hand up before the thug fired. I also notice how you're not addressing my other points. There's also the fact that the rounds the Punisher is firing will be almost 3 times as fast as that standard 9mm handgun round, as per the table Dinsdale put up.


No, he didn't. The gun goes off, Batman swings chain and blocks said shot. Cops behind wall shoot at Batman, Batman dodges bullets. This one is very convincing because he could not see the police, thus he dodged the shots as soon as they pierced the wall, or the sound was heard. Either must be movement after the bullet leaves the gun. Now, on to other points. They are in a favela. It should be fairly easy for either to get out of sight, and Batman can use a flash bang to vanish. Now, this is where he starts gaining advantages. In the tight spaces of the slum, Batman could get close enough to stun Punisher with a batarang, move in, disarm, and take him down. I would rather not repost the multiple scans of Batman taking people down with batarangs (three thugs with one in a scan). But here's a new one.

lotdk164-bat100mph1.jpg

Also, don't discount traps Batman could have set such as sonic traps or something like that.

#223 force_echo

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 03:54 PM

Prove it, because it doesn't show it in the scan. Him blocking and the firing happens in the same panel, so unless you have some insider information from the author or something, there's no way you can prove he blocked the bullet after it was fired. What? He dodged the shots as soon as they pierced the wall? THAT MEANS THE COPS MISSED. He didn't dodge jack. And he couldn't have heard the shot, first of all, the round travels supersonic. Second of all, there's no way your hearing is precise enough to actually determine the location of the bullet.

Umm, no, in the tight spaces of the slum, the Punisher is more likely to notice Batman and shoot him in the face, especially since the Punisher has infrared/x-ray/UV vision. Also, the Punisher isn't some random thug, he would shrug off the batarang and put 3 in Batman's face before he can say "Blam!" Yeah, and don't discount traps the Punisher could have set, like frags. And I doubt sonic traps are even a thing. Batman's not even known for setting traps at all, now that I think about it.

#224 thanosisawesome

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:36 PM

Prove it, because it doesn't show it in the scan. Him blocking and the firing happens in the same panel, so unless you have some insider information from the author or something, there's no way you can prove he blocked the bullet after it was fired. What? He dodged the shots as soon as they pierced the wall? THAT MEANS THE COPS MISSED. He didn't dodge jack. And he couldn't have heard the shot, first of all, the round travels supersonic. Second of all, there's no way your hearing is precise enough to actually determine the location of the bullet.

My hearing? No. But I can't bench 1000 lbs either. And if you actually look at the scan I posted, Batman is hunched over Wrath. Next, bullets come through wall and Batman is leaping backwards out of their path. So no, you're wrong.

Umm, no, in the tight spaces of the slum, the Punisher is more likely to notice Batman and shoot him in the face, especially since the Punisher has infrared/x-ray/UV vision. Also, the Punisher isn't some random thug, he would shrug off the batarang and put 3 in Batman's face before he can say "Blam!" Yeah, and don't discount traps the Punisher could have set, like frags. And I doubt sonic traps are even a thing. Batman's not even known for setting traps at all, now that I think about it.

Range advantages are negated in tight spaces, not the other way around. Easier to get close. Secondly, Punisher won't shrug off a 100 mph batarang to the face, for sure. And while he was "shrugging off" the batarang, Batman would disarm him and take him down. Like this.

lotdk165-batblinkspeed1.jpg
lotdk165-batblinkspeed2.jpg

Secondly, Batman has thermal imaging too. So, he can just as easily maneuver through the favela and hit Punisher with batarang, then move in for the KO. Here's Batman blocking bullets with his cape, and survives explosions.

batarmor-vigilante5.jpg

batarmor-abbot3.jpg
batarmor-abbot4.jpg

batman576-batcowl1.jpg

So please, do everyone a favor and stop saying that Batman gets shot and drops dead. And Batman routinely sneaks into facilities with some sort of thermal imaging, so he certainly has some way to beat thermal imaging.



#225 force_echo

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:20 PM

My hearing? No. But I can't bench 1000 lbs either. And if you actually look at the scan I posted, Batman is hunched over Wrath. Next, bullets come through wall and Batman is leaping backwards out of their path. So no, you're wrong.

Anyone's hearing, any animal, any organism, any detection equipment that ever existed and ever will, if the bullet literally travels faster than the speed of sound it doesn't matter how good your hearing is. Batman could be Daredevil plus some, he still wouldn't hear the bullet coming. Yeah, because the bullets MISS, not because he dodged them. Look up Occam's Razor, I feel like I'm debating someone with little to no knowledge of basic logical principles.

Range advantages are negated in tight spaces, not the other way around. Easier to get close. Secondly, Punisher won't shrug off a 100 mph batarang to the face, for sure. And while he was "shrugging off" the batarang, Batman would disarm him and take him down. Like this.

Prove that Batman throws it 100 mph. Also, criminals have gotten back up fairly quickly from batarangs, regular freaking criminals. The Punisher hardens himself by extreme physical conditioning, he's taken punches from f*cking Spider-Man and has gotten THROWN THROUGH BUILDINGS by Luke Cage and SENTRY to pick himself back up again with little to no delay. If you think a Batarang is going to do sh*t to him, put away your Batman themed cum rag and actually read a Punisher comic. Yeah, nice scans, but Punisher won't be reluctant to shoot because there's a fellow police officer standing behind Batman. How about you actually read your scans before posting them? And you called me a fanboy, lol.

Also, ranged advantages are never negated unless you're literally forced to stand within arm's reach of someone. Also, I'm pretty sure Punisher, havig done recon on the favelas, will choose an open, defensible position with traps laid in strategic locations. He's not going to be like "Let's walk down super tight allies and corners, because that's a GREAT idea!" He's a tactical genius, equal to, if not greater than, Batman.

Secondly, Batman has thermal imaging too. So, he can just as easily maneuver through the favela and hit Punisher with batarang, then move in for the KO. Here's Batman blocking bullets with his cape, and survives explosions.

Yeah, except The Punisher, like I've already said twice now if you actually read what I post, has anti-thermal equipment. Batman doesn't. Just because you state some vague situation doesn't count as proof of anything. Find me a single source anywhere that says he has anti-thermal tech in his suit, because I can't.

Again, there are multiple sources, including Batman himself, that say that the armor is only resistant to small caliber weaponry. In your own scan Batman says he can't handle AP rounds, and I've already given sources where Batman is knocked on his ass by a lesser caliber. The Punisher is going to use .45 ACPs and up, with armor piercing, hell, even tracer, rounds. Batman's armor is not going to be able to stand up against Punisher's weaponry, that point isn't even debatable.

#226 corvette1710

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:26 PM

In one of the scans Thanosisawesome posted, Batman notes that he can throw his batarangs at about 100 mph.

To address one of your points.

#227 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:29 PM

For the record, while Punisher was already bleeding out from a wound to his kidney, he took this hit from Sentry and was making a full retreat moments later, only falling into unconsciousness a pretty far ways away.

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#228 corvette1710

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:42 PM

...That's not through a building, that's through a window.

#229 thanosisawesome

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:43 PM

My hearing? No. But I can't bench 1000 lbs either. And if you actually look at the scan I posted, Batman is hunched over Wrath. Next, bullets come through wall and Batman is leaping backwards out of their path. So no, you're wrong.

Anyone's hearing, any animal, any organism, any detection equipment that ever existed and ever will, if the bullet literally travels faster than the speed of sound it doesn't matter how good your hearing is. Batman could be Daredevil plus some, he still wouldn't hear the bullet coming. Yeah, because the bullets MISS, not because he dodged them. Look up Occam's Razor, I feel like I'm debating someone with little to no knowledge of basic logical principles.

The nine millimeter shells in said scan travel far slower than the speed of sound, actually. I feel like I'm debating someone who likes to think they are making the opponent look stupid, but aren't. Secondly, I showed multiple other scans where Batman dodged submachine gun fire and a point blank shot from a silenced pistol.

Range advantages are negated in tight spaces, not the other way around. Easier to get close. Secondly, Punisher won't shrug off a 100 mph batarang to the face, for sure. And while he was "shrugging off" the batarang, Batman would disarm him and take him down. Like this.

Prove that Batman throws it 100 mph. Also, criminals have gotten back up fairly quickly from batarangs, regular freaking criminals. The Punisher hardens himself by extreme physical conditioning, he's taken punches from f*cking Spider-Man and has gotten THROWN THROUGH BUILDINGS by Luke Cage and SENTRY to pick himself back up again with little to no delay. If you think a Batarang is going to do sh*t to him, put away your Batman themed cum rag and actually read a Punisher comic. Yeah, nice scans, but Punisher won't be reluctant to shoot because there's a fellow police officer standing behind Batman. How about you actually read your scans before posting them? And you called me a fanboy, lol.

Read the scan you prick, it clearly states that the batarang is thrown at 100mph. Where was the fellow police officer standing behind Batman.

Also, ranged advantages are never negated unless you're literally forced to stand within arm's reach of someone. Also, I'm pretty sure Punisher, havig done recon on the favelas, will choose an open, defensible position with traps laid in strategic locations. He's not going to be like "Let's walk down super tight allies and corners, because that's a GREAT idea!" He's a tactical genius, equal to, if not greater than, Batman.

Don't know how many times I have to say this, but Batman has prep too. Also he's not some shmuck who will wander into a trap.

Secondly, Batman has thermal imaging too. So, he can just as easily maneuver through the favela and hit Punisher with batarang, then move in for the KO. Here's Batman blocking bullets with his cape, and survives explosions.

Yeah, except The Punisher, like I've already said twice now if you actually read what I post, has anti-thermal equipment. Batman doesn't. Just because you state some vague situation doesn't count as proof of anything. Find me a single source anywhere that says he has anti-thermal tech in his suit, because I can't.
Tada.
Posted Image
Again, there are multiple sources, including Batman himself, that say that the armor is only resistant to small caliber weaponry. In your own scan Batman says he can't handle AP rounds, and I've already given sources where Batman is knocked on his ass by a lesser caliber. The Punisher is going to use .45 ACPs and up, with armor piercing, hell, even tracer, rounds. Batman's armor is not going to be able to stand up against Punisher's weaponry, that point isn't even debatable.

Yet he takes a point blank AK-47 shot to the cowl. He is more than capable of tumbling the bullets with his cape and then dodging the slowed shots or his armor soaks up the weakened shot.



#230 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 02:16 AM

In one of the scans Thanosisawesome posted, Batman notes that he can throw his batarangs at about 100 mph.


I'm guessing that the writer of that issue took that from the fact that some major league pitchers can throw a baseball at about 100 mph.

It's not a good estimate. A baseball is not the same weight or shape and has very different throwing properties. I wasn't able to find a speed for boomerang (let alone batarang) throwing, but the TV series Deadliest Warrior did clock the speed of several other throwing weapons.

tomahawk - average of 30 mph
shuriken - average of 47.5 mph
chakram - average of 36 mph

There's a lot we'd need to know about the batarang to judge which weapon is the best comparison, but this should illustrate that it is much easier to throw a lightweight sphere, like a baseball, at high speeds than it is a shaped metal weapon. they said what they said, but I think a much more reasonable estimate would have been 50 mph.

#231 corvette1710

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 02:32 AM

I know it would have been more realistic were it slower, but you don't argue with Batman. :mellow:

#232 bigballerju

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:24 AM

To say that Batman could knock out any Punisher level being or above with a batrang is just stupid. Seriously this is why people get annoyed with the high popular characters in DC/Marvel. This debate is just about done like Hayes said since everyone is sticking to their choices.

#233 force_echo

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:23 PM

The nine millimeter shells in said scan travel far slower than the speed of sound, actually. I feel like I'm debating someone who likes to think they are making the opponent look stupid, but aren't. Secondly, I showed multiple other scans where Batman dodged submachine gun fire and a point blank shot from a silenced pistol.

Oh yeah? Can you prove that? Because all 9mm rounds fire faster than the speed of sound. So what's more plausible? That Batman somehow has precognitive hearing that can hear into the future, and then has his synapses fire over 10 times the speed that they're biologically capable of doing, and that the police officers fired from left to right even when Batman ducked up to down on purpose, or that the police officers missed? Yeah, look up Occam's Razor. Actually, you've shown no scans where Batman dodges bullets, as I've already proven.

Read the scan you prick, it clearly states that the batarang is thrown at 100mph. Where was the fellow police officer standing behind Batman.

Are you serious? The police officers aren't shooting because they don't want to kill Hyland, as he EXPLICITLY says in the second to last panel, implying that if they were actually going to let off gun shots, Batman would be screwed.

Don't know how many times I have to say this, but Batman has prep too. Also he's not some shmuck who will wander into a trap.

Neither is Spider-Man. In fact, Spider-Man's thinking-on-the-fly is probably greater than Batman's, plus he has a precognitive sense, yet Punisher's nailed him on more than one ocassion (and no, I'm not "just" talking about the scan already posted). Also, even if he doesn't trigger the trap, he doesn't have to, even if he avoids it, the traps can be used to funnel him into certain locations. The main point was The Punisher is not stupid enough to be led into tight spaces.

Tada.

Fair point about thermal imaging. What about UV and X-Ray? I know for a fact he can be seen with X-Ray, because Superman did it in Superman/Batman. Also, his cape in that scan get's pierced BY A CACTUS. If Punisher actually shoots his cape, all of his liquid nitrogen will leak outside, making him vulnerable to thermal imaging again, rendering Batman detectable, again.

Yet he takes a point blank AK-47 shot to the cowl. He is more than capable of tumbling the bullets with his cape and then dodging the slowed shots or his armor soaks up the weakened shot.

The armored cowl doesn't matter. The Punisher's easily a skilled enough marksman to shoot him in the mouth. Also, the Punisher is not going to be shooting a single AK-47 round, Batman's armor cannot take sustained fire from armor piercing or high caliber ammo. Also, for every scan you post saying his armor can take bullets, there are multiple saying he can't take sustained fire. Batman himself, in a scan Hayes (or maybe you) posted said his armor couldn't take AP ammunition. Explain that please?

Here's would would happen if The Punisher shot him with armor piercing, high caliber ammunition.

Posted Image

#234 xLEGACYx

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:13 PM

Posted Image

in all fairness that is a really old suit. It has shown a lot of improvements since it was blue and grey.

#235 thanosisawesome

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 02:38 PM

The nine millimeter shells in said scan travel far slower than the speed of sound, actually. I feel like I'm debating someone who likes to think they are making the opponent look stupid, but aren't. Secondly, I showed multiple other scans where Batman dodged submachine gun fire and a point blank shot from a silenced pistol.

Oh yeah? Can you prove that? Because all 9mm rounds fire faster than the speed of sound. So what's more plausible? That Batman somehow has precognitive hearing that can hear into the future, and then has his synapses fire over 10 times the speed that they're biologically capable of doing, and that the police officers fired from left to right even when Batman ducked up to down on purpose, or that the police officers missed? Yeah, look up Occam's Razor. Actually, you've shown no scans where Batman dodges bullets, as I've already proven.

Do your research. 9mm shells travel around 80 miles slower than the speed of sound. Secondly, for the love of god, it's a COMIC. It doesn't matter how fast a normal humans synapses can fire. This is a human in a comic book who benches a thousand pounds and punches through bazooka proof glass.

Read the scan you prick, it clearly states that the batarang is thrown at 100mph. Where was the fellow police officer standing behind Batman.

Are you serious? The police officers aren't shooting because they don't want to kill Hyland, as he EXPLICITLY says in the second to last panel, implying that if they were actually going to let off gun shots, Batman would be screwed.

Are we looking at the same scan? I'm talking about the one with Wrath.

Don't know how many times I have to say this, but Batman has prep too. Also he's not some shmuck who will wander into a trap.

Neither is Spider-Man. In fact, Spider-Man's thinking-on-the-fly is probably greater than Batman's, plus he has a precognitive sense, yet Punisher's nailed him on more than one ocassion (and no, I'm not "just" talking about the scan already posted). Also, even if he doesn't trigger the trap, he doesn't have to, even if he avoids it, the traps can be used to funnel him into certain locations. The main point was The Punisher is not stupid enough to be led into tight spaces.

Well, clearly he is since he dove after Punisher with zero forethought. He didn't try to at all survey the location. Secondly, I would really like to hear what you think Batman is doing with his week of prep, since you appear to think he is spending it praying he won't get shot.

Tada.

Fair point about thermal imaging. What about UV and X-Ray? I know for a fact he can be seen with X-Ray, because Superman did it in Superman/Batman. Also, his cape in that scan get's pierced BY A CACTUS. If Punisher actually shoots his cape, all of his liquid nitrogen will leak outside, making him vulnerable to thermal imaging again, rendering Batman detectable, again.

That was an old issue. It is safe to assume that his infared tech has advanced significantly since then. And since you badgered me about anti-infared, show me Punishers X-Ray vision.

Yet he takes a point blank AK-47 shot to the cowl. He is more than capable of tumbling the bullets with his cape and then dodging the slowed shots or his armor soaks up the weakened shot.

The armored cowl doesn't matter. The Punisher's easily a skilled enough marksman to shoot him in the mouth. Also, the Punisher is not going to be shooting a single AK-47 round, Batman's armor cannot take sustained fire from armor piercing or high caliber ammo. Also, for every scan you post saying his armor can take bullets, there are multiple saying he can't take sustained fire. Batman himself, in a scan Hayes (or maybe you) posted said his armor couldn't take AP ammunition. Explain that please?

If an AP round must pierce multiple layers (his cape then actual armor) it will lose a significant amount of power. Also, body armor is almost a non issue. Batman will not be standing in the open hoping his armor protects him. He will be behind cover, using stealth, avoiding long range combat.

Here's would would happen if The Punisher shot him with armor piercing, high caliber ammunition.

That's what would happen if Batman threw his hands in the air and didn't move or dodge, or go for cover.



#236 force_echo

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 07:12 PM

Do your research. 9mm shells travel around 80 miles slower than the speed of sound. Secondly, for the love of god, it's a COMIC. It doesn't matter how fast a normal humans synapses can fire. This is a human in a comic book who benches a thousand pounds and punches through bazooka proof glass.

Lol. Do YOUR research. The muzzle velocity of a standard glock handgun is 375 m/s, which is what police usually use (if they don't use that, they use something faster). The speed of sound is 340.29 secongs. And yes, you can assume that Batman is actually superhuman despite the fact that he's never been stated to have superpowers and can actually break the laws of physics by hearing into the future, but which is a safer assumption? That, or the fact that the cops missed? Again, basic logic.

Are we looking at the same scan? I'm talking about the one with Wrath.

I'm talking about the scan you posted where Batman is beating up all of those cops in front of him, it explicitly says that the cops were afraid of shooting at him.

That was an old issue. It is safe to assume that his infared tech has advanced significantly since then. And since you badgered me about anti-infared, show me Punishers X-Ray vision.

It's not "safe to assume" anything, because you're still assuming. I doubt he's used the technology since then (unless you can provide me proof that he has, and its updated in the way you said it is, which I sincerely doubt), so upgrading it would probably be low on his list. Also, in the Punisher Annual Vol. 2 # 2, he uses X-ray vision to ascertain whether a bank vault was holding money or not in it without giving away his position by blowing the vault open. In Punisher: In The Blood, he uses X-Ray vision to see a pair of criminals through a wall, so he can ascertain their position. He then snipes them through the wall.

If an AP round must pierce multiple layers (his cape then actual armor) it will lose a significant amount of power. Also, body armor is almost a non issue. Batman will not be standing in the open hoping his armor protects him. He will be behind cover, using stealth, avoiding long range combat.

It will still kill him, as Batman himself points out. Also, like I've said before, it's not that simple. The Punisher can tear up cover with his guns/explosives pretty easily, has countermeasures for Batman's stealth, and you can't just "avoid" long range combat, especially if the Punisher sets himself up in an open area with plenty of sight lines, which he will.

Considering that Batman can't dodge bullets, that would happen regardless. Besides, if he can dodge bullets so easily, why didn't he in that scan? Why didn't he when facing Two-Face, or theJoker in the instances I've previously mentioned? How can he if he can't hear or see the bullet (which you've still not answered)?

#237 thanosisawesome

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:03 PM

Do your research. 9mm shells travel around 80 miles slower than the speed of sound. Secondly, for the love of god, it's a COMIC. It doesn't matter how fast a normal humans synapses can fire. This is a human in a comic book who benches a thousand pounds and punches through bazooka proof glass.

Lol. Do YOUR research. The muzzle velocity of a standard glock handgun is 375 m/s, which is what police usually use (if they don't use that, they use something faster). The speed of sound is 340.29 secongs. And yes, you can assume that Batman is actually superhuman despite the fact that he's never been stated to have superpowers and can actually break the laws of physics by hearing into the future, but which is a safer assumption? That, or the fact that the cops missed? Again, basic logic.

All my sources put the speed of a 9mm shell at 681 mph, speed of sound at 761 mph. And again, it's a comic. Basic logic most cases doesn't apply in comics. That's why Batman leg presses over a ton. That's why an alien can gain the powers of flight from the sun. That's why there're martians with telepathy. And that's why Batman could dodge bullets, as I posted numerous scans of him doing.

Are we looking at the same scan? I'm talking about the one with Wrath.

I'm talking about the scan you posted where Batman is beating up all of those cops in front of him, it explicitly says that the cops were afraid of shooting at him.

I'm talking about the one where the police shoot through the wall, and if you look at Batman's position, he clearly moved out of the bullets path.

That was an old issue. It is safe to assume that his infared tech has advanced significantly since then. And since you badgered me about anti-infared, show me Punishers X-Ray vision.

It's not "safe to assume" anything, because you're still assuming. I doubt he's used the technology since then (unless you can provide me proof that he has, and its updated in the way you said it is, which I sincerely doubt), so upgrading it would probably be low on his list. Also, in the Punisher Annual Vol. 2 # 2, he uses X-ray vision to ascertain whether a bank vault was holding money or not in it without giving away his position by blowing the vault open. In Punisher: In The Blood, he uses X-Ray vision to see a pair of criminals through a wall, so he can ascertain their position. He then snipes them through the wall.

Here is Superman and Martian Manhunter stating that they cannot see Batman.

jlmidsummernightmare3-batmilitarystealth2.jpg

So there are obviously some precautions in place against x-ray vision. As for infrared, why would a billionare who constantly relies on stealth not have access to tech that would shield him?

If an AP round must pierce multiple layers (his cape then actual armor) it will lose a significant amount of power. Also, body armor is almost a non issue. Batman will not be standing in the open hoping his armor protects him. He will be behind cover, using stealth, avoiding long range combat.

It will still kill him, as Batman himself points out. Also, like I've said before, it's not that simple. The Punisher can tear up cover with his guns/explosives pretty easily, has countermeasures for Batman's stealth, and you can't just "avoid" long range combat, especially if the Punisher sets himself up in an open area with plenty of sight lines, which he will.

Yes, a direct headshot will kill him with an AP round. But he says nothing about it punching through multiple layers of armor.

Considering that Batman can't dodge bullets, that would happen regardless. Besides, if he can dodge bullets so easily, why didn't he in that scan? Why didn't he when facing Two-Face, or theJoker in the instances I've previously mentioned? How can he if he can't hear or see the bullet (which you've still not answered)?

Obviously he can do one of those things, because I have posted scans of him dodging bullets.



#238 force_echo

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:16 PM

All my sources put the speed of a 9mm shell at 681 mph, speed of sound at 761 mph. And again, it's a comic. Basic logic most cases doesn't apply in comics. That's why Batman leg presses over a ton. That's why an alien can gain the powers of flight from the sun. That's why there're martians with telepathy. And that's why Batman could dodge bullets, as I posted numerous scans of him doing.

Glock- Muzzle Velocity = 375 m/s, 9x19mm Parabellum. Do better research.

It doesn't matter if it's a comic or not, you still go with the most reasonable explanation. If I wake up today with my neck sore, there are a couple of explanations. One explanation is that I was abducted by aliens in the middle of the night and had my tissues probed to extract DNA to destroy the human race. Another explanation is that I slept in bed wrong. You can't prove that I didn't get abducted by aliens, but guess which assumption you go with? You haven't shown a single scan of Batman dodging a bullet, no matter how many times you insist you have, despite not being able to prove so.

I'm talking about the one where the police shoot through the wall, and if you look at Batman's position, he clearly moved out of the bullets path.

Well, I was clearly talking about the other scan where he beats up a mob of other police officers. In that scan, the police are not willing to fire, Punisher will be. And nothing's "clear" about it, unless you want to make the claim that Batman has Spider-Sense.

Here is Superman and Martian Manhunter stating that they cannot see Batman

Still no proof that Superman's using X-Ray vision, or that that's because of Batman's suit. That building could have lead shielding or lead piping that prevents Supes from seeing Batman. Also, like I've said before, in Superman/Batman, Superman was able to discern Bruce's identity and identify him using X-Ray vision, so where's the defense?

Yes, a direct headshot will kill him with an AP round. But he says nothing about it punching through multiple layers of armor.

Now you're just making shit up. He said nothing about a headshot. In fact, the bullet struck him in the middle of the back, and he said that if it was armor piercing it would have killed him. Besides, even if it is only the head, the Punisher can get headshots easily anyway, and he can shoot Bruce in the face, you know, the part that isn't armored. He's shot someone's eyeball out over a mile away before.

Obviously he can do one of those things, because I have posted scans of him dodging bullets.

You haven't shown a single scan of a confirmed bullet dodge. How can he dodge something that's literally impossible to see and hear? How can Batman, in that scan with the police officers and Wrath, dodge a bullet when he's not facing the right direction. You could say that he has Spider-Sense and precognitive hearing, and that it's a comic book so the writer made up superpowers for Batman on the fly, and you can also say that the officers simply missed, which is fully supported by how their shots are going sideways as opposed to vertical. Sorry, but my explanation has evidence, and is leagues more reasonable. You lose.

Also, you still haven't explained why Batman hasn't dodged bullets in the cases where he was actually hit by them.

#239 xLEGACYx

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 04:31 PM

About your not being able to see or hear a bullet, I have to say huh?

While shooting you can actually see a hand gun round travel down range if paying attention. You can also most assuredly hear it whiz through the air ( not talking about the bang ) if at the other end.

#240 force_echo

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 06:29 PM

You can't see a rifle round, even if the setup took place during the daytime (it doesn't). Even if you could (and actually react to it), Batman was literally facing the other way in the scan before the police officers shot at him. Even with slow velocity handgun rounds you have to be in a exactly precise angle with the sunlight and the firing path to see it (you wouldn't be able to see it if you were on the receiving end and looking at the gun).

And no, you can't hear the whizzing if you're hit, that's literally scientifically impossible, the bullet's going faster than the sound it creates. You can hear the whizzing if the bullet misses because then the sound when the bullet's already passed will reach your ears. But the Punisher doesn't miss.




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