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#81 KidStranglehold

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:30 AM

I agree. However, Batman's gadgets are the deciding factor in this.

He can utilize a wide variety of equipment to defeat any/all of the opponents in the set-up who have virtually no defense against the effects of most of his gadgets.


Doesn't Batman carry knockout gas as an standard equipment?

#82 Darxeth

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:36 AM

Doesn't Batman carry knockout gas as an standard equipment?


Usually.

He also carries his Bat-darts, which would be harder to overcome but harder to use to defeat multiple enemies.

#83 KidStranglehold

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:37 AM

Usually.

He also carries his Bat-darts, which would be harder to overcome but harder to use to defeat multiple enemies.


Oh okay.

#84 force_echo

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:49 AM

Right, because Batman takes so long to throw equipment he's highly trained with, only, he doesn't. :l


Force is right, Batman doesn't randomly throw flashbangs in 1 on 1 situations.
However, He does throw them when surrounded or faced with multiple threats (a similar situation he'd be faced with in this set-up) to disorient his opponents, which isn't a random reason to throw them, mind you.

Batman's not going to jump in like an idiot into the fray when he could easily sit back and toss batarangs and smoke pellets and flashbangs and bolos and so on.

After everyone is tired from fighting each other and being bombarded with batarangs and other gadgets, DD included, Batman would have an easier time to finish everyone that is left off without involving himself too much into the conflict.

By that logic, no one is going to jump into the fray. If they see Batman off to the side, they'll engage Batman. At that point, Bats is f*cked. He can't deal with all of the other combatants by himself by any means. Also, about the people having little to no defense against the gadgets, that's utter bs. The only gadget that would give Batman a slight edge is the flashbang, the thing is, when he uses it, he's screwed. Smoke pellets is a good way to get knocked out by Daredevil. Everyone can pretty effortlessly dodge bolos and batarangs.

#85 force_echo

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:54 AM

What point ARE YOU not understanding that neither were fighting at their best. I never really said Black Panther was not trying to fight him, I said Black Panther was not fighting at his best, otherwise he wouldn't be trying to talk DD out the whole fight and just let Wheeler make his own choice.



Daredevil has fought beaten more people since X has been in less comic issues obviously...Mister X abilities are what makes him beat Daredevil. How would Daredevil even counter X's nervous pulse locking which he uses reads body language?


LOL...


I think I remember that fight and I don't think that's current Iron FIst when he got his powerboost. I am not sure though.



Lol...How does the strength argument make no sense? Lol...Batman was able to get Wonder Women in some holds until she had to use her strength. Batman has been able to land multiple hits on her, you can also clearly see it when he has fought a possessed Wonder Woman.

Again,t he argument that just because Black Panther was talking while fighting meant that he wasn't fighting his best is extremely stupid. Him trying to talk Daredevil out of it means that he has an emotional investment in trying to stop Daredevil, which means he is really trying to fight him. And if, by your own admission, neither of them were fighting at their best, then how can you say Daredevil didn't really win that fight? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Umm, because Daredevil can read X's movements too, like I've said before.

That fight was written after Immortal Iron Fist 1 came out in 2006, which was his boost.

And wonder Woman was able to get out of those holds, you have no proof whether that was due to her strength or skill, you're making an assumption. And it's making an ass out of you. Also, I'm pretty sure Wonder Woman being posessed by a freaking demon means she wasn't fighting at her best, especially since that means you're comparing the demon's skill, not Wonder Woman's.

#86 Darxeth

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:10 PM

By that logic, no one is going to jump into the fray. If they see Batman off to the side, they'll engage Batman. At that point, Bats is f*cked. He can't deal with all of the other combatants by himself by any means. Also, about the people having little to no defense against the gadgets, that's utter bs. The only gadget that would give Batman a slight edge is the flashbang, the thing is, when he uses it, he's screwed. Smoke pellets is a good way to get knocked out by Daredevil. Everyone can pretty effortlessly dodge bolos and batarangs.


"If they see Batman off to the side."
That's a big if :P
He's a master of stealth, and besides, the entire list of fighters aren't going to be all like "Hey, Batman is our enemy, let's all get him!"
:l

Chances are, a lot of the fighters would go into hiding and try to use tactics to down down the other combatants, but none of them are as good as Batman at doing just that.

Batman would not be screwed if he used the flashbang, because he's not stupid enough to be around when it goes off.
Unless you have down-syndrome, why woud you activate the flashbang near yourself?

Knockout gas would probably prove more useful than anything else to take down these combatants, especially since Batman could slip on his rebreather and mask himself in knockout gas.

The other opponents wouldn't stand a chance.

So no, DD probably wouldn't prove much of a threat to Batman in this fight because he'd have to try to beat Batman at his own game, which he simply cannot do.

#87 force_echo

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:47 PM

It doesn't matter how big Batman is on stealth. Daredevil will find him, literally a mile away. So no, it's not an if at all. Once Daredevil finds him and pursues, everyone else would too. And yes, the fighters are going to be like that if Batman sits on the side and pelts them with gadgets, essentially making a target out of himself. I mean, you're assuming that everyone will just keep on fighting like, "oh, there's some loony in the corner throwing batarangs at us. Oh well, no biggie."

He would, because a flashbang would attract all of the fighters to him. They're not going to just let someone use flashbangs in the fight, they're going to neutralize the biggest threat at the moment, and the second Batman uses a flashbang, that's him.

Leonardo can hold his breath for like an hour plus, Daredevil can literally slow down his own heart rate and not breath, and last over 10 minutes in knockout gas, which is a ridiculously long time in a fight.

What game are you talkig about? Stealth? Batman's stealth is useless against Daredevil. If Batman starts throwing flashbangs, chances are he's going down first.

#88 Darxeth

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:57 PM

It doesn't matter how big Batman is on stealth. Daredevil will find him, literally a mile away. So no, it's not an if at all. Once Daredevil finds him and pursues, everyone else would too. And yes, the fighters are going to be like that if Batman sits on the side and pelts them with gadgets, essentially making a target out of himself. I mean, you're assuming that everyone will just keep on fighting like, "oh, there's some loony in the corner throwing batarangs at us. Oh well, no biggie."

He would, because a flashbang would attract all of the fighters to him. They're not going to just let someone use flashbangs in the fight, they're going to neutralize the biggest threat at the moment, and the second Batman uses a flashbang, that's him.

Leonardo can hold his breath for like an hour plus, Daredevil can literally slow down his own heart rate and not breath, and last over 10 minutes in knockout gas, which is a ridiculously long time in a fight.

What game are you talkig about? Stealth? Batman's stealth is useless against Daredevil. If Batman starts throwing flashbangs, chances are he's going down first.



Because all the other fighters aren't going to hide either and will just brawl each other /sarcasm
You act as if DD is soley focused on Batman when a LOT of the other combatants are going to be hiding as well.

And Batman isn't going to immediately throw flashbangs, he'd probably lure his targets into a trap, ya know, because he's Batman and that's what he does, and he does it better than everyone listed.

Besides, even if he did start throwing flashbangs while fleeing, it's not like the other fighters can just walk them off and attack him, unless DD and company can shrug off flashbangs.

#89 force_echo

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:14 PM

Because all the other fighters aren't going to hide either and will just brawl each other /sarcasm
You act as if DD is soley focused on Batman when a LOT of the other combatants are going to be hiding as well.

And Batman isn't going to immediately throw flashbangs, he'd probably lure his targets into a trap, ya know, because he's Batman and that's what he does, and he does it better than everyone listed.

Besides, even if he did start throwing flashbangs while fleeing, it's not like the other fighters can just walk them off and attack him, unless DD and company can shrug off flashbangs.

They aren't going to be using gadgets, which was, you know, the whole point of the argument.

What are you talking about? Lure his targets into a trap? How?

They would shake it off pretty quickly, so unless Batman can take out all of them while they're stunned, which is highly unlikely, they're coming after him.

#90 Darxeth

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:38 PM

They aren't going to be using gadgets, which was, you know, the whole point of the argument.

What are you talking about? Lure his targets into a trap? How?

They would shake it off pretty quickly, so unless Batman can take out all of them while they're stunned, which is highly unlikely, they're coming after him.


You're really asking how Batman can lure people into traps? He's armed with hIs usual gadgets, (including his utility belt) I'm pretty sure he has many ways to lure them into a trap, especially in this setting.

Let's say he throws his Flashbangs and stuns everyone, he then would have time to flee and hide, with DD being the only one who'd be able to find him, which would allow Batman to deduce that he must have some kind of super-sense to find him because no ordinary human would be able to do so thanks to Batman's specific skillset that isn't rivaled by anyone in this set-up in the stealth department (as far as I'm aware, please correct me if I'm wrong). Thus, if DD does find Batman and Batman assumes he possesses some sort of superhuman ability, it would allow Batman to tactically pick DD apart. If DD "shuts off" his senses like you claim he can, then he'd get the crap beat out of him, because that would be the only thing stopping Batman from destroying defeating him. If he chooses to use his senses, Batman can use them against him.

It's a win-win for Batman.

But that's ONLY if DD is able to pursue Batman, since he's going to have to fight off some of the other opponents as well, who aren't going to just call a truce to find Batman.

Sure, they may try to flee as well, but they aren't going to be all like: "Hey guys, let's go get that rat-bastard who stunned us! No hitting anyone 'till we beat his ass, okay?"

#91 Darxeth

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:57 PM

I doubt some of you still doubt that Batman wins, but it's cool. We'll have to agree to disagree.

#92 force_echo

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:18 PM

You're really asking how Batman can lure people into traps? He's armed with hIs usual gadgets, (including his utility belt) I'm pretty sure he has many ways to lure them into a trap, especially in this setting.

Let's say he throws his Flashbangs and stuns everyone, he then would have time to flee and hide, with DD being the only one who'd be able to find him, which would allow Batman to deduce that he must have some kind of super-sense to find him because no ordinary human would be able to do so thanks to Batman's specific skillset that isn't rivaled by anyone in this set-up in the stealth department (as far as I'm aware, please correct me if I'm wrong). Thus, if DD does find Batman and Batman assumes he possesses some sort of superhuman ability, it would allow Batman to tactically pick DD apart. If DD "shuts off" his senses like you claim he can, then he'd get the crap beat out of him, because that would be the only thing stopping Batman from destroying defeating him. If he chooses to use his senses, Batman can use them against him.

It's a win-win for Batman.

But that's ONLY if DD is able to pursue Batman, since he's going to have to fight off some of the other opponents as well, who aren't going to just call a truce to find Batman.

Sure, they may try to flee as well, but they aren't going to be all like: "Hey guys, let's go get that rat-bastard who stunned us! No hitting anyone 'till we beat his ass, okay?"

DD's senses allow him to keep up with Batman? That's not true at all, he's simply a better martial artist. He's faster and more acrobatic than Batman is. Also, Daredevil's not going to come alone, the second he runs off, everyone else is going to follow too. I never said they would form a verbal truce, but if someone just used flashbangs against you, then tries and runs off, it's obvious he's the prime tactical target. No one is going to be like "oh, it's alright. Let him go, it's not like he would try such a thing again." Maybe they stop fighting each other, maybe they don't, but either way, they're going to be looking for Bats.

#93 force_echo

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:24 PM

Actually, flashbangs aren't even part of Batman's standard arsenal.

#94 Darxeth

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:25 PM

ignore

#95 Darxeth

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:29 PM

Oh wow. Forget the flashbangs, he has a lot of other gadgets he could use that would prove to be more useful.
Like his explosive weapons.

Question: would the device that attracts bats screw with DD? I think it might. It would def. Make it hard for him to track Batman down, and no one else would be able to find him.

he's simply a better martial artist.

No.. Just.. No. Batman is def. more skilled than DD in h2h combat.

#96 xLEGACYx

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:40 PM

Part of Batman's suit could block out his heartbeat from Supes, which has better hearing than DD.... just saying.

#97 KidStranglehold

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:44 PM

Sorry I took long.

Again,t he argument that just because Black Panther was talking while fighting meant that he wasn't fighting his best is extremely stupid. Him trying to talk Daredevil out of it means that he has an emotional investment in trying to stop Daredevil, which means he is really trying to fight him. And if, by your own admission, neither of them were fighting at their best, then how can you say Daredevil didn't really win that fight? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.


Again we can agree to disagree on this. Just beacuse he was trying to stop Daredevil, doesn't mean he was really trying to hurt Daredevil. IIRC Daredevil and T'Challa are friends. Also I never really stated Daredevil didn't win that fight, I really stated that is not a really good impressive win for Daredevil. Again we can agree to disagree. This isn't getting us no where and it has nothing to do with this match.

Umm, because Daredevil can read X's movements too, like I've said before.


From what I've seen, X'x body reading is better than Daredevil's. Again we can agree to disagree on this since this has nothing to do with the match.

That fight was written after Immortal Iron Fist 1 came out in 2006, which was his boost.

I stand corrected then.

And wonder Woman was able to get out of those holds, you have no proof whether that was due to her strength or skill, you're making an assumption. And it's making an ass out of you. Also, I'm pretty sure Wonder Woman being posessed by a freaking demon means she wasn't fighting at her best, especially since that means you're comparing the demon's skill, not Wonder Woman's.


1. What do you mean I have no proof? I already posted scans. How am I making assumptions when I have already posted scans??? The first scans I posted shows Batman getting the better of her. Batman was besting her in skill and he was able to escape her lasso's. That's when see started using her speed and strength, the scans clearly show it. Also Wonder Women did not show any 'skills' when she broke out of Batman's hold. It just looked like she used her strength since she is stronger than Batman.
2. LOL...How is it making 'an ass' out of me.
3. Who said I said Wonder Women still had her skill when she was possessed Point being Batman was able to hang with someone who is physically superior to him in strength and speed.

#98 KidStranglehold

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:46 PM

No.. Just.. No. Batman is def. more skilled than DD in h2h combat.


Agreed....

Part of Batman's suit could block out his heartbeat from Supes, which has better hearing than DD.... just saying.


Oh thanks for pointing this out... *winks*

#99 bigballerju

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:49 PM

No you didn't show any proof in those scans of Batman beating Wonder Woman. I countered that arguement. Everything else I guess will be agree to disagree I guess.

#100 KidStranglehold

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:51 PM

No you didn't show any proof in those scans of Batman beating Wonder Woman. I countered that arguement. Everything else I guess will be agree to disagree I guess.


Wait...How could you countered that argument when I never said Batman beat Wonder Woman... :huh:

Yeah re-read what I posted again.




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