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Match 13588 Shang-Chi vs. Lady Shiva


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#21 bigballerju

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:28 AM

You didn't downplay characters? Would you like me to quote and bold the sections where you did? Gladiator jobs? Have you seen the foes Gladiator has fought and defeated? Yes you did downplay characters.

Lady Shiva has lost to Cassandra Cain, Tim Drake (Which is why he got the bo-staff), Prometheus, and Black Canary.

#22 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:30 AM

Stranglehold, you clearly know feck-all about Hyperion because he was never "just" a 75-tonner. Marvel lists him as a 90-tonner and his feats far exceed that.

And please stop with the "READ MY POSTS!" nonsense. It's annoying and presumptuous. Just because somebody disagrees with you, does not mean they didn't read your post. I'm going with Shang-Chi for the reasons Methos stated-- roughly equal in skill, and physically superior. There's no evidence whatsoever that Shiva was mind-controlled when Batman smacked her down, by the way. He just theorized that she may have been. For all we know, she was hired.

Excellent set-up as always.

#23 bigballerju

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:35 AM

During Avengers Galactic Operations it took Thor, Quasar, and Wonder Man combined to beat a 100% confident Gladiator. Gladiator has also defeated Vulcan and others.

#24 KidStranglehold

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:52 AM

You didn't downplay characters? Would you like me to quote and bold the sections where you did? Gladiator jobs? Have you seen the foes Gladiator has fought and defeated? Yes you did downplay characters.


Just because Gladiator jobs doesn't mean I was purposely downplaying him, I was making a point if you clearly read what I was posting. Yes I seen the foes that Gladiator has defeated, but he has a track record of many bad showings.

Lady Shiva has lost to Cassandra Cain, Tim Drake (Which is why he got the bo-staff), Prometheus, and Black Canary.


1.You can't be serious with this? Cassandra Cain is more skilled than Shang Chi and has a way better track record than Shang Chi can even dream. Also Lady Shiva has stalemated with Cass many times. Also Lady Shiva has killed Cass and brought back to life by just using Ki. I even posted a scan.
2. Tim Drake? You can't be serious are you? Lady Shiva was just sparring with him and the fact that Tim only distracted her. Also I doubt she was fighting seriously since she was just sparring with him. Tim even stated "Next time she'll have me for lunch." She was basically training him. You bringing up Tim Drake was just pointless...Really pointless.
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3. The Prometheus I believe that fought Shiva was Chad and Prometheus with his armor would most likely beat Shang Chi.
4. Are you serious with Black Canary???? Shiva beat Black Canary and Catwomen at the same time! They even said we have to run! When has Black Canary beaten Shiva with ease? To make it even worse, Black Canary states Shiva is the most dangerous women on the planet.


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Do you want me to ACTUALLY 'downplay' Shang Chi? Because I haven't as of yet.

#25 KidStranglehold

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:07 PM

Stranglehold, you clearly know feck-all about Hyperion because he was never "just" a 75-tonner. Marvel lists him as a 90-tonner and his feats far exceed that.

And please stop with the "READ MY POSTS!" nonsense. It's annoying and presumptuous. Just because somebody disagrees with you, does not mean they didn't read your post. I'm going with Shang-Chi for the reasons Methos stated-- roughly equal in skill, and physically superior. There's no evidence whatsoever that Shiva was mind-controlled when Batman smacked her down, by the way. He just theorized that she may have been. For all we know, she was hired.

Excellent set-up as always.


First off I do not care about Hyperion. But the fact is he is not class 100 strength. I was wrong(I was keep thinking Black Bolt) but he is class 90 only and not 100. Since Marvel ONLY list him as class 90 and nothing else.
http://marvel.wikia....to_90_ton_range
http://marvel.wikia....-616)#Abilities

616 Squadron Sinister Hyperion is not a class 100 strength character. Marvel only lists him at a 5, not even at least a 6. This is not downplaying but FACT since Marvel only lists him as such.

Also if BigBallerJu did read my post then he wouldn't be saying I am 'downplaying' those characters. This has completely nothing to do wuth someone disagreeing with me. If its annoying then stop claiming I'm downplaying certain characters just because you like them(speaking in general).

Also...

"No one is talking, seems they are not acting of their own accord."
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Next panel.

"How did you know what I was looking for? Had the same thought, find telepath."
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Which turns out to be Gorilla Grodd. They were mind controlled. So Shiva being mind controlled is a high possibility.

#26 KidStranglehold

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:21 PM

During Avengers Galactic Operations it took Thor, Quasar, and Wonder Man combined to beat a 100% confident Gladiator. Gladiator has also defeated Vulcan and others.


Thor has already beat Gladiator on his own and Gladiator even admitted he couldn't beat him. Back than Wonder Man wasn't even a class 100 in strength since that was during the 90s and he didn't even get his power boost yet. I don't know about Quasar.

#27 Callisto

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 07:15 AM

Match Final Results
USER RATINGS
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A
A AvP
A great work =)
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A Another great meatch and matchup!
SCORE
Shang-Chi: 21
Lady Shiva: 11
FPA: 3.8


#28 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:01 AM

Stranglehold stop being dumb. Classic Hyperion held his own with Gladiator in a fight for a good while, so much so that Gladiator comments to the effect that Hyperion's physical attributes rival his own. Clearly a class 100.

Also, Wonder Man I believe is stronger than that.

But this is derailing, so on topic...dunno who wins.

#29 KidStranglehold

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:28 AM

Stranglehold stop being dumb. Classic Hyperion held his own with Gladiator in a fight for a good while, so much so that Gladiator comments to the effect that Hyperion's physical attributes rival his own. Clearly a class 100.

Also, Wonder Man I believe is stronger than that.

But this is derailing, so on topic...dunno who wins.


The match is over...

#30 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:38 AM

Doesn't mean you can't comment on who wins.

#31 Darxeth

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:56 AM

If the World's greatest Detective thinks Lady Shiva was mind controlled, chances are, she was, despite what people might believe.

As for the match, I think Shiva barely loses.

Great Set-up, Dinsdale.

#32 force_echo

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:08 PM

I feel like all of Strangehold's arguments basically amount to Person X is holding back, when he has absolutely no proof that they would be doing so.

#33 Darxeth

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:13 PM

A bit of advice for you, Stranglehold: Don't rely so heavily on Marvel's stats, they are oftentimes inaccurate, outdated or otherwise wrong.

Cheers :]

#34 sirmethos

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:20 PM

"Hey you're the one that mentioned 'blocked'. You should have just said he redirected it...."

Yes, I mentioned "blocked", because he blocked the punch. You assumed that he blocked it by taking all the energy, and thus stopping the punch. I just clarified, that he blocked the punch, by redirecting the energy. Which made him capable of blocking a punch that he "shouldn't be able to".


"Yet people like Daredevil, Black Panther, Kingpin,etc are able to keep up with him when he is not holding back."

In terms of pure agility, no. They are not able to "keep up with him".


"1. So already has reacted to people way faster than Shang Chi....Shadowdragon? Who is faster than a thought."

Yes, because Shiva could see the attacks coming, by reading his body language. I.e. Shadowdragon's attacks were telegraphed. Shang Chi could get around that, by not telegraphing his attacks, forcing her to rely on pure reaction time, and speed. Rather than knowing the attack is coming, and moving before it is actually launched.


"2. I'mnot talking about physical capabilities. You keep bringing that up. I'm mostly talking about pure h2h which this fight is mostly going to be about."

Yes, I keep bringing physical capabilities up, because it is a factor, when the skill level is roughly equal. Deathstroke, who is considerably less skilled than Batman, has almost effortlessly taken him out on more than one occasion, purely due to his superior physical and mental capabilities. That is also the same reason that Cap would (easily)beat Batman in a straight up fight.

And in this particular case, it is a large part of the reason for why Shang Chi wins.


"Yes Captain America is physically superior to Batman but what mental capabilities does Captain America have that puts him above Batman?"

All of his mental capabilities were enhanced by the Super Soldier Serum, just like his physical ones.


"Spiderman mans fighting skills is only listed as a 5 in Marvel."

You brought something similar up, earlier. I'll repeat myself, since you obviously didn't get it the first time.

The Marvel Stat Grids are useless

Among other people that Marvel has listed as a 5, in Fighting Skills, is the Prince of Orphans, who is one of the top 5 martial artists in Marvel.

Other people listed as a 5 are, Black Panther, Kitty Pryde, Blade, Bullseye, Silver Samurai, Wong(dr. strange's assistant), etc.


"In Marvel Batgirls fighting skills would be listed as a 7."

No, she really wouldn't.

A 7 means "master of all forms of combat", which Batgirl is not.


"Again a futile point. People say things in comics that is not true. Gladiator couldn't even beat Thor, struggled with Black Bolt(freaking Black Bolt who is only a 60 tonner or 75 tonner), Canonball, struggled with 616 Hyperion(who's only a freaking 75 tonner) and his fight with Gambit...

If Marvel says Gladiator is super strong(same with Shang Chi) then they would write him out to be so, like what their ACTUALLY doing with Thor currently. Hulk is said to be "The Strongest Their Is" and you know what? Marvel actually writes him out to be just that even if at the expense of making characters job. I don't know why you brought up Sentry when the same could be said for him just like with Gladiator.

Again this is a futile point."


Instead of actually trying to make a case for Lady Shiva, it seems like you're trying to downplay Shang Chi, and clinging to the Marvel Stat-Grids.

Using that logic, Superman would easily defeat Sentry(after all, Sentry lost to Hulk, albeit the World War version). Superman would also take out people like Dr. Strange, the entire Avengers, X-men, Inhumans, and more. Who all lost to Hulk.

Iron Man, Mandarin, War Machine, Dr. Doom, Hank Pym, and more, are more powerful than Sentry, when it comes to Energy Manipulation. Sentry is listed as a 5, while they are all listed as 6.

Legion and Sage are just as intelligent as the Grandmaster and Thanos. They are all listed as a 6.

Loki, Namor and Colossus, are just as durable as Sentry. And Legion is more durable than Sentry. Sentry, Loki, Namor, etc. are listed as a 6, while Legion is listed as a 7.


Robin(tim drake) is apparently, according to the logic you're using, one of the top 5 martial artists in DC, since he defeated Lady Shiva(something that Batman hasn't managed).



When you want to actually debate, rather than trying to downplay the characters, let me know.




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