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Match 13588 Shang-Chi vs. Lady Shiva


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#1 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:25 AM

This is part of an Arc, the last installment of which is found at Catwoman vs. Amanda.

**************************************************************************

Barbara Gordon marched the assassin Merlyn up to the front door of her father's suburban home. He had his hands bound behind his back with one of his own bowstrings and she held a small gun-likedevice against the small of his back. There was no way she could explain this to the neighbors, but at 2:43 am it was about as safe as it was going to get.

They reached the front door and she rang the bell.

"It's open," said a harsh voice from within.

Barbara turned the handle and pushed Merlyn through so his body could shield her from any sudden attack. James Gordon was bound to a chair so expertly there was no way he could move. He was also gagged and blindfolded. Behind him stood a big man, easily six foot six, whose forearms and hands had been replaced with heavy sword blades. He held the blade of one along her father's throat and the point of the other between his shoulder blades.

"Okay," she said. "Let's talk about an exchange."

The big man--Merlyn had called him Razor Fist--didn't change expression.

"I told you," Merlyn said. "Our Society lives by a code. Any of us will gladly give up his life to accomplish a mission. My life is forfeit and you have no power to bargain with my associate."

"How about this… let my dad go and I'll surrender."

"You don't get it," the archer said. "You surrender--now--and cut me loose. Fail, and Razor Fist takes your father's head off."

The big man still didn't change expression, but he applied enough pressure to the blade that a trickle fo blood ran down Jim Gordon's neck and stained his white shirt. A long moment passed, then Razor Fist's arm twitched.

"No!" Barbara screamed.

"That's better," Merlyn said. "Now, free my hands."

She cut the bowstring and he turned to face her. she didn't resist as he took her weapon, a compact vaccination gun, and injected her with it. He caught her as she lost consciousness and scooped her up in his arms.

"Now what?" Razor Fist asked.

"You remain here; this girl is valuable. I will deliver her to the mistress."

"What about the plan to lure Batman?"
"He is already coming," Merlyn said. "I'll send another to help you with him."

"I would rather kill him alone."

"You're a fool, Razor Fist," the archer replied. "Even with help he may best you. Remain here and keep the Commissioner alive. You may need a hostage again."

Razor Fist scowled and said nothing.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fang glided across the city, not knowing where he was heading. He felt bad for the Indian and the lady cop--especially the lady cop; she'd been hot. By now Sabretooth had reduced them to so much cold meat. Still, there had been no sense in him staying and getting killed with them.

He shuddered when he thought of Sabretooth. That freak had looked human.. mostly human anyway, but he'd been unstoppable. The problem was, the unstoppable freak was hunting mutates, which meant he'd come for him again eventually. He needed allies when that happened, and he knew where to find the best kind of allies in this town.

Fang altered his course and headed to a part of the city where one of his old haumts lay; the Big Sky Billards Hall.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Dick!" Batman said as he entered his former partner's apartment through the skylight.

Dick Grayson looked up as the Dark Knight moved to him. His wounds had been dressed but he still had an arrow in his thigh and was pale from blood loss.

"Hey, Bruce," he said, managing a smile.

Batman took the scene in quickly. A big Arabic-looking man, presumable one of the assailants, lay nearby, bound and sedated. Dick's wounds were serious and required at least a week in the hospital, but they weren't life threatening.

"Where's Barbara?" he demanded.

"She went with the assassins to her father's house," Dick replied. "We've got to--"

"Now we; me," Batman said. "You're too badly wounded to be of any help. I'll be back soon."

He turned and fired a grapple through the skylight. A second later it lifted him away.

"That's okay, Bruce," Dick said bitterly. "I'll be fine here, thanks for asking.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Happy Hogan threw a blistering combination of punches, only to see Shang Chi deftly avoid them all. The slender young man wasn't making any attempt to counter-attack, which annoyed him. What made it worse was the look of serene unconcern on Shang Chi's face.

"Why don you try to hit me back?" he demanded.

In response, Shang Chi feinted a punch. When Happy parried, the master of kung fu trapped his hand with a circling motion and tapped him on the chin lightly with his fist.

"He got you, Happy," Tony Stark said from the corner of the ring.

"He knows some slick tricks, but that ain't real fighting," Happy said. "Still, you got some moves. With some work you could be a decent middleweight."

Shang Chi smiled bit said nothing.

"I'm gonna hit the showers," Happy said.

"I'm impressed," Tony said when he Happy was gone. "Happy's got to outweigh you by… two or three hundred pounds, and he's strong as a bull."

"Your sense of humor takes getting used to, Mr. Stark," Shang Chi said. "You sound like you're mocking your friend."

"No!" Tony said. "Well… yeah, but it's all in fun. I really think the world of Happy. He saved my life once; pulled me out of a burning car. He actually ripped the door loose."

"He is powerful," Shand Chi said, "but it is possible to out fight a more powerful opponent if you can anticipate his moves and flow with them."

"Like you've been trying to teach me--" Tony said.

"Excuse me, Mr. Stark," JARVIS voice interrupted. "There is a young woman requesting access to your workshop."

"Put her on screen, Jarvis," Tony said.

The image of a strikingly pretty Asian woman in a smart pantsuit appeared on the screen.

"She looks like someone worth talking to," Tony said.

"You do not know her?" Shang Chi asked.

"No, but I'd like to."

"There is a threat to your life."

"Relax, Shang Chi," Tony said. "To get this far into Stark Tower, she's been scanned a dozen times for any known type of weapon. She's harmless." He pressed the intercom button. "Hi, this is Tony Stark. How can I help you?"

"Mr. Stark, I'm here to serve you papers to appear in court," the woman said holding up an envelope.

"You were right about the danger," Tony said, aside to Shang Chi.

"Pelase, let me in," the woman said. "The law stipulates that I put these papers in your hand. Knowingly refusing to accept them constitutes a--"

"No, that's fine," Tony said, pressing the button that opened the door. He moved to meet the woman and reached for the papers. Instead of handing them over, she struck a lightning fast blow. The tips of her stiffened fingers struck him on the side of the neck and he collapsed.

Shang Chi leaped forward as the woman assumed a kung fu fighting stance.

"Stark was business," she said. "Killing you, shank Chi, will be an honor and a pleasure."

********************************************************************************

Tony is alive but paralyzed and Happy isn't going to be out of the shower in time to help.

Lady Shiva is completely unarmed and so is Shang Chi. They are in Stark's private gym so there is an abundance of exercise equipment around, but this will mostly be a contest of martial arts skills.

#2 Callisto

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:25 AM

Learn More About
Shang-Chi
Read more about Shang-Chi at Wikipedia
Official Site: Marvel Comics Links: Wikipedia Marvel directory Shang Chi chronology

Lady Shiva
Read more about Lady Shiva at Wikipedia
Official Site: D.C Comics Links: Wikipedia Unstablog Unoffic. guide to D.C Universe



#3 sirmethos

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:34 AM

Great setup Dinsdale, as usual.

As for the match, Shang Chi has it. And pretty comfortably at that.

#4 KidStranglehold

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:46 AM

Lady Shiva takes this...

Shang Chi has never impressed me.

#5 Dark Spider-man

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 10:20 AM

Great setup, Dinsdale! I have to say Shang Chi also. Lady Shiva is a good as well but Shang Chi knows how to keep calmin situations like this.

#6 bigballerju

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:07 PM

Good setup but I think Shang Chi is more skilled then Lady Shiva and can put her down for the win.

#7 patrickthekid

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:39 PM

Man this one is tough. We're talking one of the best martial artists from either side. And yes, Shiva is more than capable in this sort of situation as well.

#8 KidStranglehold

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 03:41 PM

What has Shang Chi done that makes him more skilled than Lady Shiva?

#9 leroypowell3

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 08:36 PM

Shang Chi is the best practicer of martial arts in the Marvel Universe (on Earth) and everybody knows that. But. Being the best at Kung Fu doesn't mean you can handle everything. For instance, he wouldn't win Mortal Kombat. That said Lady Shiva is somebody that wouldn't surprise him. His skills are high enough to defeat her. Shiva's only chance of overcoming him is with sneaky ninja techniques which, again, Shang Chi has blenty of experience defending against .

So with that rambling knowledge, I'll vote for the Master of Kung Fu.

#10 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:13 PM

Shang Chi is the best practicer of martial arts in the Marvel Universe (on Earth) and everybody knows that. But. Being the best at Kung Fu doesn't mean you can handle everything. For instance, he wouldn't win Mortal Kombat.


Betcha he'd do very well in MK. The only thing slowing him down would be a lack of magic.

#11 sirmethos

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 10:05 PM

He's not the best in Marvel though.

#12 DSkillz

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:01 AM

Great set-up as usual, Dinsdale. Wonder how Barbara's going to get out of this mess?

Heh, shame on Tony for falling for that ruse. :D As for this match, I think Shang-Chi can pull out the tough win here. Fighting skill may be close to negligible between him and Shiva, but Shang seems to have fought and beaten a more powerful grade of opponents.

#13 sirmethos

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:19 AM

What has Shang Chi done that makes him more skilled than Lady Shiva?


It's not that he's "more skilled" than Shiva. It's that he is roughly equal to her in skill, and far superior in terms of physical capabilities, due to enhancing himself with his Chi.

For example, he was able to block a punch from Hirohim(the Oldstrong guy from WWH). He can(and has) punch through solid steel, and concrete. He has held his own against several dozen(if the number wasn't closer to hundred) people at the same time, several of which were superhuman in one way or another. Managed to keep up with Spider-Man, in terms of Agility. He has taken down a radio tower, with a single punch. Just to mention a few examples.

In terms of skill, he stalemates people like Cap. America, Iron Fist, Elektra and Wolverine. He trained Spider-Man so that he(peter) didn't need his Spider-sense anymore. He took down(albeit temporarily, and lost on the re-match) one of the Immortal Weapons(iirc, her name is the Bride of Spiders, or something like that).

And as a final "example" of his skill(sorta), he's the guy Marvel uses(in the last few years), when they want to show off how skilled a character is.


Shiva is good, but she's not going to beat a guy, that is at roughly the same skill level as she is, and who is that superior in terms of physical capabilities.

#14 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:45 AM

He and Iron Fist have often referred to each other as equal in skull. In his own series he was only equaled by Midnight and Shen Kuei / Cat. Depending on who you ask, Mantis might be better. She took out Captain America and Thor in one panel each (PIS!) when she debuted in Avengers. Later, in Immortus' realm, she easily defeated Midnight. However, when Iron Fist first met Cap, the Avenger told him he was probably as fine a martial artist as Mantis had been.

I can't think of any non-super powered martial artist in marvel who is better.

A tournament with Shang Chi, Shen Kuei, Iron Fist, Richard Dragon, Bronze Tiger, and Shiva would be awesome, IMO.

#15 sirmethos

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:33 AM

Well, with his ability to utilize his Chi, he's not exactly "non-super powered".

#16 KidStranglehold

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 03:38 AM

It's not that he's "more skilled" than Shiva. It's that he is roughly equal to her in skill, and far superior in terms of physical capabilities, due to enhancing himself with his Chi.


I never seen Shang Chi chi on par with Iron Fists. Lady Shiva is DC's top martial artist who trained the likes of Batgirl(Cass). It doesn't even matter how physically strong Shang Chi is because Lady Shiva reads body language and her pressure point attacks are devastating. I never seen Shang Chi read body language or use pressure points like Lady Shiva.

Oh and I think Lady Shiva has used chi..Maybe. When she killed Batgirl and then revived her.
Posted Image
Posted Image

For example, he was able to block a punch from Hirohim(the Oldstrong guy from WWH). He can(and has) punch through solid steel, and concrete. He has held his own against several dozen(if the number wasn't closer to hundred) people at the same time, several of which were superhuman in one way or another. Managed to keep up with Spider-Man, in terms of Agility. He has taken down a radio tower, with a single punch. Just to mention a few examples.


1. Shang Chi shouldn't be able to block that punch considering he is only peak human and his stats don't match up. Anyways Lady Shiva was skilled enough to own Supergirl and use her own strength against her while using speed.
2. Who can't keep up with Spideman? A lot of slow people have...Lady Shiva was able to keep up with and defeat Shadow though who moves faster than a though.
3. What's Shang Chi going to do against her body reading? None of his physical abilities would matter. Also she was able to rip a mans guts out.

In terms of skill, he stalemates people like Cap. America, Iron Fist, Elektra and Wolverine. He trained Spider-Man so that he(peter) didn't need his Spider-sense anymore. He took down(albeit temporarily, and lost on the re-match) one of the Immortal Weapons(iirc, her name is the Bride of Spiders, or something like that).


1. Batman has never beaten Lady Shiva and I think Batman admitted that. If you bring up that one time then you should note that Lady Shiva was mind controlled by Gorilla Gorrd. Batman>Captain America in H2H. Also Batman acknowledged her of all forms of martial arts. And we know Batman has mastered almost every form.
2. Lady Shiva trained Batgirl(Cass)...Batgirls martial arts>Spidermans. And Batgirl has a way better track record compared to Spiderman when it come to martial arts.
3. Stalemating with Elektra is good, but Lady Shiva was able to fight wit Richard Dragon
4. I believe Wolverine wasn't as experienced when he fought Shang Chi. And he was only using his claws and not experience.


And as a final "example" of his skill(sorta), he's the guy Marvel uses(in the last few years), when they want to show off how skilled a character is.


Shiva is good, but she's not going to beat a guy, that is at roughly the same skill level as she is, and who is that superior in terms of physical capabilities.


1. Okay...To me that sounds like Marvel wants to job him. Marvel uses Gladiator to show off what other characters can do. That a really futile point.
2. Lady Shiva is more skilled than Shang Chi. It doesn't matter how physically strong Shang Chi is when Lady Shiva has fought more skilled people. And also Lady Shiva has beaten people that are physically stronger than her...

#17 sirmethos

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:57 AM

"1. Shang Chi shouldn't be able to block that punch considering he is only peak human and his stats don't match up."

He didn't "block" it, i.e. take the full force of the blow into himself. He blocked it by redirecting the energy of the blow, which is a relatively well-known principle in Tai-Chi.

You can see it described, and demonstrated here

And you can see Shang Chi doing it here

Posted Image

What Shang Chi does, is just taking that real-life Tai-Chi principle, into the extreme. Which, considering it's a comic book, is not really that unrealistic. In the next page, Hirohim pretty much picks Shang up, and bodily throws him. And Shang knows he is way out-matched, and retreats.

But it's still an impressive showing, being able to 'block' a blow with that kind of power behind it.


"Who can't keep up with Spideman?"

In terms of pure agility? Most people can't keep up with Spider-Man. One of the thing that his opponents comment on the most, is his insane agility, along with his speed.


"What's Shang Chi going to do against her body reading? None of his physical abilities would matter. Also she was able to rip a mans guts out."

1. Stop telegraphing his attacks. If she doesn't know the attack is coming, then she can't do anything about it(when it's coming faster than she can react).

2. How is "ripping a man's guts out" impressive? She is up against a guy that punched through solid steel.


"Batman has never beaten Lady Shiva"

True, and Lady Shiva has never beaten Batman. The fights they have had, have all been inconclusive.


"Batman>Captain America in H2H."

Partially true. Batman is more skilled, yes. But Cap has physical and mental capabilities that Batman can't quite match. In a straight up fight between the two, Cap would win with relative ease.


"Lady Shiva trained Batgirl(Cass)...Batgirls martial arts>Spidermans."

And obviously you didn't understand the significance of that particular 'feat'.


Spider-Man, using his own homemade fighting style, which utilizes his own powers for maximum effect, and which relies heavily on his Spider-Sense, has resulted in Spider-Man being referred to, as one of the best close-combat fighters in Marvel.

Spider-man with spider-sense: one of the best close-combat fighters in marvel. Spider-man with no spider-sense: just a highly athletic guy with super-strength.

Shang Chi trained him, so he didn't need the Spider-Sense.


Cass is far more skilled than Spider-Man, but with his spider-sense, she would never lay a finger on him. Likewise, after Shang Chi's training, Spider-man would, once again, punt her around like a football.


"Stalemating with Elektra is good, but Lady Shiva was able to fight wit Richard Dragon"

You ignored Stalemating Iron Fist.


"I believe Wolverine wasn't as experienced when he fought Shang Chi. And he was only using his claws and not experience."

You can believe what you want, but you would be believing wrong. The last issue where he stalemated Wolverine, was from... 2001, IIRC.


"Okay...To me that sounds like Marvel wants to job him. Marvel uses Gladiator to show off what other characters can do. That a really futile point."

Actually, it's an excellent point. Gladiator is used to show off what other characters can do, because he is as powerful as he is. Likewise, they use Shang Chi that way, because he is one of the most skilled martial artists in the Marvel universe.

Or do you want to argue that Gladiator isn't really that powerful? Sentry was used in the same way for a while, is Sentry not that powerful?


"Lady Shiva is more skilled than Shang Chi. It doesn't matter how physically strong Shang Chi is when Lady Shiva has fought more skilled people. And also Lady Shiva has beaten people that are physically stronger than her..."

Shang Chi is at roughly the same skill level(as demonstrated by him stalemating people like Cap, Elektra, Iron Fist and Wolverine). And the people that Shiva has beaten, that were that much stronger than her, were all far less skilled than she is.

#18 KidStranglehold

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 05:59 AM

He didn't "block" it, i.e. take the full force of the blow into himself. He blocked it by redirecting the energy of the blow, which is a relatively well-known principle in Tai-Chi.

You can see it described, and demonstrated here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_611ZXXuA&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL4F5F09901523AF0C

And you can see Shang Chi doing it here

Posted Image

What Shang Chi does, is just taking that real-life Tai-Chi principle, into the extreme. Which, considering it's a comic book, is not really that unrealistic. In the next page, Hirohim pretty much picks Shang up, and bodily throws him. And Shang knows he is way out-matched, and retreats.

But it's still an impressive showing, being able to 'block' a blow with that kind of power behind it.


Hey you're the one that mentioned 'blocked'. You should have just said he redirected it....



In terms of pure agility? Most people can't keep up with Spider-Man. One of the thing that his opponents comment on the most, is his insane agility, along with his speed.


Yet people like Daredevil, Black Panther, Kingpin,etc are able to keep up with him when he is not holding back. And I bet Spiderman was holding back against Shang Chi.



1. Stop telegraphing his attacks. If she doesn't know the attack is coming, then she can't do anything about it(when it's coming faster than she can react).

2. How is "ripping a man's guts out" impressive? She is up against a guy that punched through solid steel.

1. So already has reacted to people way faster than Shang Chi....Shadowdragon? Who is faster than a thought.
2. What does punching through solid steel prove? She can easily avoid it...Again what is Shang Chi going to do against Lady Shiva's body reading and pressure point attacks which has paralyzed people with ease.





True, and Lady Shiva has never beaten Batman. The fights they have had, have all been inconclusive.


Partially true. Batman is more skilled, yes. But Cap has physical and mental capabilities that Batman can't quite match. In a straight up fight between the two, Cap would win with relative ease.


1. Batman has admitted that Shiva is a better h2h fighter than he is.
2. I'mnot talking about physical capabilities. You keep bringing that up. I'm mostly talking about pure h2h which this fight is mostly going to be about. Yes Captain America is physically superior to Batman but what mental capabilities does Captain America have that puts him above Batman?



And obviously you didn't understand the significance of that particular 'feat'.


Spider-Man, using his own homemade fighting style, which utilizes his own powers for maximum effect, and which relies heavily on his Spider-Sense, has resulted in Spider-Man being referred to, as one of the best close-combat fighters in Marvel.

Spider-man with spider-sense: one of the best close-combat fighters in marvel. Spider-man with no spider-sense: just a highly athletic guy with super-strength.

Shang Chi trained him, so he didn't need the Spider-Sense.


Cass is far more skilled than Spider-Man, but with his spider-sense, she would never lay a finger on him. Likewise, after Shang Chi's training, Spider-man would, once again, punt her around like a football.



No I did understand what what you said. But you did not understand what I said. I'm talking about pure skill and H2H. Spiderman mans fighting skills is only listed as a 5 in Marvel. He is no where near the best close combat fighter in Marvel. Of course Spiderman would be Batgirl since he is physically superior to her. Spiderman beats most of his opponents due to being physically superior to them or using his Spidey Senses. But Batgirl was able to almost kill Supergirl and was actually able to hurt Superboy...

In Marvel Batgirls fighting skills would be listed as a 7. Again Batgirl>Spiderman when it comes to fighting. I'm only talking about pure H2H. If Batgirl was on the same physical level as Spiderman then she would destroy him.




You ignored Stalemating Iron Fist.

I didn't see it and I don't know why you brought that up...Shang Chi only fought classic Iron Fist which was not even that strong. I believe Daredevil was able to beat him and Captain America was able to stalemate with him too. Also Iron Fist always holds back. I doubt Shang Chi would stalemate with current Iron FIst...



You can believe what you want, but you would be believing wrong. The last issue where he stalemated Wolverine, was from... 2001, IIRC.

I already saw it...I know. Much of Wolverines fighting skills he forgot. He was using his claws and didn't even look like he was fighting wisely. Also the fact that it was a sparring fight. Most the people you mentioned Shang Chi fighting don't even come close to Lady Shiva's fighting skills.


Actually, it's an excellent point. Gladiator is used to show off what other characters can do, because he is as powerful as he is. Likewise, they use Shang Chi that way, because he is one of the most skilled martial artists in the Marvel universe.

Or do you want to argue that Gladiator isn't really that powerful? Sentry was used in the same way for a while, is Sentry not that powerful?


Again a futile point. People say things in comics that is not true. Gladiator couldn't even beat Thor, struggled with Black Bolt(freaking Black Bolt who is only a 60 tonner or 75 tonner), Canonball, struggled with 616 Hyperion(who's only a freaking 75 tonner) and his fight with Gambit...

If Marvel says Gladiator is super strong(same with Shang Chi) then they would write him out to be so, like what their ACTUALLY doing with Thor currently. Hulk is said to be "The Strongest Their Is" and you know what? Marvel actually writes him out to be just that even if at the expense of making characters job. I don't know why you brought up Sentry when the same could be said for him just like with Gladiator.

Again this is a futile point.




Shang Chi is at roughly the same skill level(as demonstrated by him stalemating people like Cap, Elektra, Iron Fist and Wolverine). And the people that Shiva has beaten, that were that much stronger than her, were all far less skilled than she is.


Captain America is not good H2H fighter like Shiva he does not come close to her. He is only ranked as a 6 in Marvel. The only thing Captain America has on Shiva is that he is physically stronger than her, yet Shiva has fought people that are physically superior to her. Elektra is the only impressive one. Shang Chi only fought classic Iron Fist who wasn't even that strong compared to current Iron Fist. IIRC Luke Cage was able to beat classic Iron Fist and Iron Fist usually holds back against people. And the fight with Wolverine was just a sparring match. Wolverine wasn't fighting seriously or wisely.

Also the same can be said for Shang Chi...Lady Shiva has beaten Catwomen(with so much ease that she ran away), Shadow Dragon, Nightwing, Batgirl, Sensei and did I forget to mention that Batman has asked for her to train him and that he said she is possibly the best martial artist? Also Bronze Tiger the same Bronze Tiger who held his own against Deathstroke said that 'She wasn't unbeatable yet..."

#19 bigballerju

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:57 AM

You really wanna go down the route of trying to downplay people like Iron-Fist, Hyperion, Shang Chi, Gladiator, and more? Bronze Tiger is right then because Lady Shiva has been defeated and by people just as skilled as Shang Chi.

#20 KidStranglehold

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:08 AM

You really wanna go down the route of trying to downplay people like Iron-Fist, Hyperion, Shang Chi, Gladiator, and more? Bronze Tiger is right then because Lady Shiva has been defeated and by people just as skilled as Shang Chi.


Who the heck says I'm downplaying those people??? Please actually read my post!

1. 616 Hyperion(classic Hyperion) was only a 75 tonner which is a FACT!
2. Classic Iron Fist wasn't that powerful compared to current Iron Fist.
3. Sirmethos brought Shang Chi being used to make other characters look more skilled, which is flawed, which is why I brought up Gladiator because Marvel does the same thing to him and he jobs.
4. No one is downplaying Shang Chi, its just that Lady Shiva is more skilled than him. Shang Chi could be said to be the best martial artist on Marvel Earth, but that does not mean he beats Lady Shiva who is one of the top 10 martial artist in DC who would be considered a 7 in fighting skills by Marvel standards.
5. Also this is what Bronze Tiger really said about Lady Shiva..."When you beat Shiva, it was obvious to any of us who'd been in on it...Only the entire league could've taken down Shiva...This was a long time ago, she wasn't much older than you are now. She wasn't unbeatable yet".
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Basically meaning she was a child and less experienced...




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