Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 2 votes

Match 13506 Spider-Man vs. Sabretooth


  • Please log in to reply
57 replies to this topic

#21 sirmethos

sirmethos

    A Man of the People

  • CBUB Match Judges
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,142 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denmark

Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:51 PM

No, Luke Cage is not at "roughly the same strength as Spider-Man". Just like Sabretooth, his strength has increased quite a lot over the years. Starting at a strength of about 3 tons(way below Spider-Man), to his current strength level of about 25 tons(quite a bit above Spider-Man).

Similarly, Sabretooth's strength has been upgraded several times. He started out with a strength of about a ton. His last known strength level before his death was at about 20 tons. And he was upgraded once more after that, with his max strength after the last enhancements being unknown.

#22 Dinsdale Piranha

Dinsdale Piranha

    Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.

  • CBUB Match Judges
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,136 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Far away

Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:18 PM

No, Luke Cage is not at "roughly the same strength as Spider-Man". Just like Sabretooth, his strength has increased quite a lot over the years. Starting at a strength of about 3 tons(way below Spider-Man), to his current strength level of about 25 tons(quite a bit above Spider-Man).


Cage's strength has always been inconsistent. When he first appeared, he had problems with really big, strong normals like Big Ben Donovan and Black Mariah. Then he would turn around and punch a hole in Dr. Doom's armor (though I think that one can be written off to PIS.)

When he first met Spiderman (Amazing Spiderman Vol 1 #123 they appeared to be dead even in strength, though Cage was more durable and Spidey was faster and more agile. Honestly, I think 3 tons was a reasonable figure for his strength back then and for Spidey's as well.

When Marvel Handbook came out, Cage's strength was a pretty reasonable 3 tons but Spider-man's had jumped to an inexplicable 10 tons, despite the fact that he had never done anything in that range up to that point. Since then he has (because writers go back to the Handbook) done a lot of things in the 10 ton range and (because some writers can't be bothered to find out how much things weigh) a lot more. He's lifted train cars (30 tons) and tanks (50 tons) and all kinds of stupid stuff like that.

My scan comes from fairly early in Cage's career, when people on the level of Man Mountain Marko were still giving him a hard time. He and Spiderman may not be the same strength level now, but that's sure how they were written back then.

Similarly, Sabretooth's strength has been upgraded several times. He started out with a strength of about a ton. His last known strength level before his death was at about 20 tons. And he was upgraded once more after that, with his max strength after the last enhancements being unknown.


Gotcha. I didn't know about that,

#23 Dark Spider-man

Dark Spider-man

    Nuking the site from orbit

  • CBUB Match Judges
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,681 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:49 AM

Yeah, Spider-man takes down Sabretooth after a rough fight. I'm trying to look for that comic "A Man Gone Mad" where Peter just looses it. That's a really old book. Or somewhat recent is when Aunt May was sniped, Peter didn't even bother to put on his costume went in to a bar full of thugs and gangs and just beat the tar out of all of them then PURPOSELY got the symbiote so he can satisfy his already raging emotion. Peter is nuts sometimes. >_>

#24 AVP vs The Terminator

AVP vs The Terminator

    Will never see the Adult Board

  • CBUB Character Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,068 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ireland
  • Interests:Comics. Movies. Video Games. TV.

Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:21 AM

Wolverine wasn't using his claws, and would have refrained from killing, but that's the limit of it. It would be out of character for him not to use anything less than his full strength and speed against a powerful foe. And if he couldn't tag Spidey with his fist, he couldn't have tagged him with his claws.


And yet, he can and has before, even when Parker was going all out.

Making Wolverine fight without his claws is like making Conan fight without his sword, anyway. It completely changes things.

#25 force_echo

force_echo

    Pretentious, Obnoxious, Annoying...humanity's last hope

  • CBUB Match Judges
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,750 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Charlotte, NC
  • Interests:Anything Interesting

Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:48 PM

Spider-Man wins. It's not gonna be easy, but it's not going to be terribly hard either.

#26 Xenerack5

Xenerack5

    I like it on Omicron Ceti III, Jim

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 441 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The land of perpetual desire to leave.
  • Interests:Reading, writing, tv, movies, the rest of the internet and cracking of the wise.

Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:12 PM

If anything Peter is at his most effective when he pissed. Once in the aftermath of the gauntlet where he thought his enemies had caused the death of a baby he hunted them all down within a matter of hours. He actually brought a building down on the enforcers and Shocker. Once in a comic where Betty Brant was injured in little Russia or something he took out an entire neighbourhood of criminals in like an hour. Add that to prior knowledge of Sabertooth, his specialty of beating guys stronger than him and the probababilty that he will just web creed up and axphyxiate him and you have one very, very dead dog.

#27 ZeroAccess

ZeroAccess

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta Georgia
  • Interests:Riding Motorcycles, Reading, Couple television shows such as Spartacus, Game of Thrones, Elementary,etc, Programming Android Devices (learning)

Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:28 PM

I just don't see it, in a closed confined area, Sabretooth has more fatal weapons at his disposal. I can't see Spidey's spider sense helping because of the rage. I've never seen Spiderman that pissed off. Gotta remember ya'll this is MJ. If I were him I'd be seeing red I think he'll charge in and Sabretooth will overpower him.

Spiderman's main things are his intelligence in fighting and acrobatics. Web stuff ...isn't going to help with this its just too enclosed. If it were say a larger opened area where Spiderman could fling around and use his momentum with web slinging it'd be a different fight. I just don't see Spiderman keeping a clear enough head especially when IT JUST HAPPENED. It'd be one thing if he had a second to process it ya know.

#28 Darxeth

Darxeth

    Nuking the site from orbit

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,500 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Raccoon City

Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:03 AM

When he showed up later in Power Man/Iron Fist he was partnered with Constrictor and was going out in civilian clothes and a hood as a serial killer. Possibly someone saw that and got confused. But, no, in his earliest appearances he was clearly superhuman and there were strong hints he was a mutant and connected to Wolverine. Chris Claremont and John Byrne were the creative team on both X-Men and Iron Fist at that time so I'm sure it was deliberate.


Ah. Thanks for the info!

#29 Darxeth

Darxeth

    Nuking the site from orbit

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,500 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Raccoon City

Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:06 AM

Personally, I think Spidey wins.

He'd probably revert to Kain's tactics and use his wall-crawling abilities to rip the flesh from his opponent's body or something.

#30 xLEGACYx

xLEGACYx

    King of Kings

  • CBUB Match Judges
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,250 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Guarding Arkham Asylum
  • Interests:manipulating the minds of inmates

Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:42 AM

Looking at the set up and everyone's comments I have to disagree to an extent. With the combined set up and known abilities it's a close match. Sabretooth knows what he is doing. He has taken away Spider-Man's speed and some agility by attacking in a small area. Spider-Man has his strength spider sense and intellect but those aren't guaranteed to give him the win. So recently after such a traumatic event he will be at a loss. He would still be in shock and not thinking clearly. This gives sabretooth the edge by spidey fighting in a rage. Spider-Man can't take the abuse that creed can deal out as easily as the opposite.

Essentially creed has brought spidey into his element. A close quarters brawl. Difference is that creeds injuries sustained will heal rapidly. Now spidey has the superior strength but we all know that's not a given win. His intellect doesn't help much if your in a rage and not thinking clearly such as here. Also his maneuverability has been taken away by the small space. This in my opinion gives sabretooth the win 6/10 times

#31 Darxeth

Darxeth

    Nuking the site from orbit

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,500 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Raccoon City

Posted 17 February 2013 - 05:09 AM

Looking at the set up and everyone's comments I have to disagree to an extent. With the combined set up and known abilities it's a close match. Sabretooth knows what he is doing. He has taken away Spider-Man's speed and some agility by attacking in a small area. Spider-Man has his strength spider sense and intellect but those aren't guaranteed to give him the win. So recently after such a traumatic event he will be at a loss. He would still be in shock and not thinking clearly. This gives sabretooth the edge by spidey fighting in a rage. Spider-Man can't take the abuse that creed can deal out as easily as the opposite.

Essentially creed has brought spidey into his element. A close quarters brawl. Difference is that creeds injuries sustained will heal rapidly. Now spidey has the superior strength but we all know that's not a given win. His intellect doesn't help much if your in a rage and not thinking clearly such as here. Also his maneuverability has been taken away by the small space. This in my opinion gives sabretooth the win 6/10 times


Hm. I disagree. Nothing is stopping Spidey from taking the fight outside.
I've also noticed that every fight I've ever read of Spidey when he's enraged all end in his favor.

The first two that come to mind are:

1. The Hulk fight (when he thought MJ was dead)

2. Grim Hunt (When he dominated Kraven the hunter)



This is kinda funny (Although I'm not using it to try and prove my point as to why I think Spidey would win)

http://media.comicvi...super_super.jpg

#32 xLEGACYx

xLEGACYx

    King of Kings

  • CBUB Match Judges
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,250 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Guarding Arkham Asylum
  • Interests:manipulating the minds of inmates

Posted 17 February 2013 - 05:15 AM

Hm. I disagree. Nothing is stopping Spidey from taking the fight outside.
I've also noticed that every fight I've ever read of Spidey when he's enraged all end in his favor.

The first two that come to mind are:

1. The Hulk fight (when he thought MJ was dead)

2. Grim Hunt (When he dominated Kraven the hunter)



This is kinda funny (Although I'm not using it to try and prove my point as to why I think Spidey would win)

http://media.comicvi...super_super.jpg

as far as him beating hulk I find it hard to believe without som pis

As far as Kraven goes he is skilled but sabretooth is superior in all ways except for maybe fighting skills. Creed has strength speed experience and durability over Kraven

#33 Oltobaz

Oltobaz

    Cannon Fodder

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 111 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:16 AM

Let's see:

Spidey is much stronger, faster, and also more agile. Besides his healing factor, Sabretooth only edge may be his hand to hand prowess, and it's definitely something to take into account, still, Parker can always rely on his own custom fighting style, which got
even better a few years back, thanks to Shang Chi's training, so this might not be much of a factor after all. In the end, Creed's healing factor will probably keep him alive, unless Parker goes all out and rips his head off. Whatever happens, 'Tooth is in for a beating..

#34 Darxeth

Darxeth

    Nuking the site from orbit

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,500 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Raccoon City

Posted 17 February 2013 - 11:48 AM

as far as him beating hulk I find it hard to believe without som pis

As far as Kraven goes he is skilled but sabretooth is superior in all ways except for maybe fighting skills. Creed has strength speed experience and durability over Kraven


Those were the two instances off the top of my head. There are probably more instances of Spiderman schooling people when he's angry. I may post some later.

#35 ZeroAccess

ZeroAccess

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 24 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta Georgia
  • Interests:Riding Motorcycles, Reading, Couple television shows such as Spartacus, Game of Thrones, Elementary,etc, Programming Android Devices (learning)

Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:51 PM

Can anyone source when Peter was raging and fighting? I'm wondering if his spider sense and just thoughts aren't clouded. I assumed that he wouldn't be able to fight with blind rage but most people are saying differently. Also can anyone document where Peter is stronger than Creed? Creed's strength has been enhanced a few times and I don't believe Pete's has.

I realize there's nothing stopping Pete from dragging the fight outside and he potentially could throw Creed out the window/through the wall so as to not cause further damage to MJ. I think he'll want to get near MJ to see if she's still alive and that's when Creed will be most efficient.

If Spiderman can still use his spider sense and agility to dodge Creed's attacks I'd give him the win to me this entire fight depends on rather or not Peter can keep a clear head. Everyone's arguments are making me doubt my initial analysis.

#36 Darxeth

Darxeth

    Nuking the site from orbit

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,500 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Raccoon City

Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:05 PM

http://media.comicvi...r_man190_21.jpg

He was angry but I don't think that impaired his thinking.



This is right before he beat the brakes off of Wilson Fisk when he was furious.
http://jcbaggee.file...7/09/badass.jpg

#37 Supes Rulez

Supes Rulez

    I like it on Omicron Ceti III, Jim

  • CBUB Match Judges
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 396 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 17 February 2013 - 05:25 PM

Peter tears Creed a new one.
It's been shown that, even though he's one of the nicest guys around, hurt his loved ones and you will SUFFER.
So I guess that a few issues later she's resurrected, and Creed too. Comic deaths don't really last long anymore.

#38 Hastur

Hastur

    Don't feed him after midnight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 596 posts

Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:29 AM

Yup. No one wants to remember One More Day, but there it is. Angry Peter doesn't flip his s**t, he just does his level best to murder your face off.

#39 force_echo

force_echo

    Pretentious, Obnoxious, Annoying...humanity's last hope

  • CBUB Match Judges
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,750 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Charlotte, NC
  • Interests:Anything Interesting

Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:17 PM

Above user put it pretty well. Spidey's not Wolverine. When he gets mad, he doesn't wildly fling punches. He just simply stops pulling his punches and becomes even more fiercely determined. He takes this.

#40 DSkillz

DSkillz

    'Member me?

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,216 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago, Illinois
  • Interests:Surfing the 'Net, playing and watching basketball, reading, playing video games, writing, going to the movies, watching TV, traveling

Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:08 PM

Good set-up and Challenge entry, Darxeth.

Since Sabretooth's been at many different levels of strength and healing ability, and, IIRC, has had adamantium placed on and removed from his bones a couple of times, I'm almost surprised no one's asked these simple questions yet and stopped assuming: Exactly what level of strength, healing, etc. is Sabretooth here, and is his skeleton laced with adamantium?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users