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John Carter (film) vs Scar (AVP)


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#41 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:42 PM

lolwat

#42 RakaiThwei

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:00 PM

I've heard you make these claims about Yautja strength before. You seem knowledgeable and I have accepted this as a measure of respect. However, since the respect in this conversation is only running one way... prove it.


Whoah whoah...Let's get something straight here. If you think I am being in anyway condenscending towards you I am not. All I am saying is what the Yautja are more than capable of and what their potential is. Nowhere am I being disrespectful and if I am, it was not my intention of doing so. None at all whatsoever here. I have told you that I haven't ready any of the Carter books, so I cannot make a comparison between the movies and the books. Also it is to my understanding that the adaptation(s) and the books are different. Because I haven't read the books, it's hard for me to say what the differences between the books and the movies are. I'll have to ask Scott what the differences are when I see him at my local comic book store.

As far as the Yautja strength and capabilities go. Here is a link: http://www.electricf...showtopic=26180

Be sure to read Smiley Predator's posts since he's got a lot of feats shown there. There is even footage from a game called Concrete Jungle, which is the first feat listed there as it shows a Yautja lifting a security blast door. It's also been discussed there too. Everything you want to know is in that very thread.

No. Carter's strength does not change, only his environment changes. He can lift several times as much and jump several times as far but not because he's become stronger. He may be stronger than the Martians but that's because they evolved in a lower gravity environment, not because he's gotten stronger.
The fact that Scar is stronger is not a point of contention. But you do need to prove your claims about how much stronger, and about how you know anything about Carter.


Which is something which I have been saying all ths time, albeit I probably have been miswording myself here. I have been saying that the reason Carter is strong is because of his lower gravity environment. That's what I have been saying or at least trying to say since the beginning of this very thread.

Regarding Scar's strength, his place holder is likely based on the performances we have seen other Unblooded and Young Blooded warriors perform at. Regarding Carter, fine.. You got me there, since all I have seen is nothing but the movie..

No. All the Barsoom books were written by Edgar Rice Burroughs except for Synthetic Men of Mars which was probably finished by a ghostwriter.


I was referring to works where other authors have expanded upon it.. like the John Carter/War of the Worlds novel crossover.

-Rakai'Thwei

#43 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:50 PM

Not according to what my friend Scott has said, and he's read pretty much all of the Barsoom books. He's said that there were differences of the film and the books.



See, there's my mistake right there. I went to the source instead of to a really good source like your friend Scott.

There are differences. The Therns are introduced much earlier in the movie than in the books. The novel doesn't include the fight with the Arizona gunmen. There are a number of plot points in the movie that are different from the novel but none of them are germane to this discussion. John Carter's physical skills are faithfully represented in the movie.

As long as we got that out of the way...

I haven't ready any of the books of either Tarzan or John Carter.

It shows. If anyone dismissed the Predators on the basis of such complete ignorance you'd be all over them, and rightly so.

However, I have seen numerous adaptatons of them.

Which I'm sure are just as much canon as Tarzan vs. Predator at the Earth's Core.

I've remember seeing the 1980s adaptation of Greystoke: The Legend of Tarzan starring Christopher Lambert and Ian Holme. From what I know of that version of Tarzan,

Where to start...

First, there are not numerous adaptations of John Carter, there are 2.

Second, Greystoke is not 'numerous adaptations' of Tarzan, it's just one movie and very definitely not canon. To be frank, there are canon problems with every movie and TV adaptation of Tarzan I have ever seen (I haven't seen all of them, BTW, just the Elmo Lincoln, Herman Brix, Johnny Weismuller, Gordon Scott, Mike Henry, Ron Ely, Joe Lara, Wolf Larsson, Christopher Lambert, and Casper can Deim versions. I've also seen the Filmation cartoons, and some of the Disney cartoons and maybe a few others I'm not thinking of now.)

I've also read all the original Tarzan novels (all written by ERB), and the authorized sequils by Fritz Leiber, Joe Lansdale, and Philip Jose Farmer. I've read the unauthorized stuff too, like some of the Barton Werper novels, Farmer's biography TARZAN ALIVE, and his pastiches. I've read many (though not all) of the newspaper strips, the DC comics, the Marvel comics, the Dark Horse Comics, and the Malibu Comics.

Though perhaps your knowledge is greater.


he was raised by Chimpanzees and was taught to use his senses to near superhuman levels. He also had peak human conditioning considering his lifestyle and animalistic upbringing. I do not recall him ever learning a martial art, and I do not recall him ever having senses which are superior to a Bloodhound's.

The apes in the movie were meant to be gorillas, not chimpanzees. Either would have been different from the novels where they are a species of great ape unknown to science and called the mangani. In THE RETURN OF TARZAN (by ERB) there is specific mention of him studying boxing, wrestling and jujitsu during his time in civilization. In this and subsequent novels us uses these skills. In TARZAN, THE LOST ADVENTURE, Joe Lansdale tells us that Tarzan has studied martial arts across the world. He specifically mentions that he's studied kung fu at the Shaolin Temple. I'd have to look up the thing about bloodhound smell.

The Yautja are trained in a native martial art called Jehdin which is according to author Steve Perry, the creator of the Yautja mythos-- to be an almagation of Aikido, Penchak Silat, and Karate. It's supposedly a martial art which is more complex than what we have on Earth. Also, there are the physical strength differences and what not of the Yautja to their advantage.

I have never disputed that the Yautja study martial arts.

If you want to discuss Tarzan vs Predator... PM me or whatever..

No thank you. I have no desire to continue this conversation.

Regarding John Carter... I've only seen the Asylum movie and the Disney movie. If this were strictly the books, I wouldn't be talking in this thread but since this is the movie version.. Depending on which movie... probably affects my opinion of Carter. Though it's been a while since I've seen either movie.

I could repeat myself here but I don't see any point.

#44 RakaiThwei

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:13 PM

See, there's my mistake right there. I went to the source instead of to a really good source like your friend Scott.

There are differences. The Therns are introduced much earlier in the movie than in the books. The novel doesn't include the fight with the Arizona gunmen. There are a number of plot points in the movie that are different from the novel but none of them are germane to this discussion. John Carter's physical skills are faithfully represented in the movie.


So those are the only differences? I haven't read the books, but at least you cleared that up.

It shows. If anyone dismissed the Predators on the basis of such complete ignorance you'd be all over them, and rightly so.


A LOT of people like to dismiss the Predators on a basis. It's been something which I have been trying to fight for years on this forum going back to 2006 and so far I feel like I have had to constantly drill it into their heads. I'd like to think I've extensively researched on Predator's quite thorougly and visited numerous forums and held discussions with many fans who know just as much or perhaps more than I do. I've even spoken to people who have worked on the films at conventions. But for some reason... people just want to lean for the human/human type character. In a forum of superheroes afficiandos... I feel as if the Yautja are criminally underrated and they would be able to take on many notable capes and masks alike.

But people, perhaps on a psychological level... don't like the idea of that.

I suppose my frustration and resentfulness gets the better of me and I get REALLY heated in debates. You'll have to excuse my brash approach.

Where to start...

First, there are not numerous adaptations of John Carter, there are 2.

Second, Greystoke is not 'numerous adaptations' of Tarzan, it's just one movie and very definitely not canon. To be frank, there are canon problems with every movie and TV adaptation of Tarzan I have ever seen (I haven't seen all of them, BTW, just the Elmo Lincoln, Herman Brix, Johnny Weismuller, Gordon Scott, Mike Henry, Ron Ely, Joe Lara, Wolf Larsson, Christopher Lambert, and Casper can Deim versions. I've also seen the Filmation cartoons, and some of the Disney cartoons and maybe a few others I'm not thinking of now.)

I've also read all the original Tarzan novels (all written by ERB), and the authorized sequils by Fritz Leiber, Joe Lansdale, and Philip Jose Farmer. I've read the unauthorized stuff too, like some of the Barton Werper novels, Farmer's biography TARZAN ALIVE, and his pastiches. I've read many (though not all) of the newspaper strips, the DC comics, the Marvel comics, the Dark Horse Comics, and the Malibu Comics.


To me it sounds like that ERB has had his works publicized and adapted by many different companies and people. I don't even know where to start with what concerning ERB's works and I just know that there are different adaptations of them and to me is sounds like a lot. I mean you just listed the many different intereptations of Tarzan out there and to me that sounds like quite a lot. :lol:

The apes in the movie were meant to be gorillas, not chimpanzees. Either would have been different from the novels where they are a species of great ape unknown to science and called the mangani. In THE RETURN OF TARZAN (by ERB) there is specific mention of him studying boxing, wrestling and jujitsu during his time in civilization. In this and subsequent novels us uses these skills. In TARZAN, THE LOST ADVENTURE, Joe Lansdale tells us that Tarzan has studied martial arts across the world. He specifically mentions that he's studied kung fu at the Shaolin Temple. I'd have to look up the thing about bloodhound smell.


That's something I never even knew. All I had was an adaptation to go on regarding Tarzan. And none of them really so much as made mention of Tarzan learning skills like boxing, Jujitsu and of course Shaolin Kung-Fu. That is something which I don't think a LOT of people on this site here know where as you probably do. I will say, this makes me see Tarzan in a different light than just a guy who swings on trees and just has animalistic instinct and strength going for him.

Regarding the senses of the Yautja... Here is an archived site which hasn't been updated since 2007 and closed down since Geocities went away... But it's archived. I do suggest that you have a damn good firewall and online shield because while the site is archived... it kind of has an exploit. So... be warned: http://oocities.com/gunsandgod/

I have never disputed that the Yautja study martial arts.


No, you haven't... I suppose it's just my aggressive way of thinking and seeing things clouding my judgement. A lot of people really like to downplay the Yautja, and say so-and-so wins because of whatever reason.. Now I don't know you too very well, so I kind of have this... negative attitude towards newcomers on this site and assumed you were going to be like everyone else, always wanting to downplay something like everyone else.. Again, you'll have to excuse my brash approach towards things.

-Rakai'Thwei

#45 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:37 PM

People downplay them? One could argue people wank them on the site. o,o

#46 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:39 PM

Wankity wank, yo.

#47 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:40 PM

STOP STALKING ME EVAN

#48 RakaiThwei

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:42 PM

People downplay them? One could argue people wank them on the site. o,o


I don't think so. I'm just going by what I've researched and seen in the expanded universe.

Wankity wank, yo.


Stop playing with yourself, Nova. You'll go blind.

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#49 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:43 PM

I think so.

#50 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:47 PM

Make me Ethan!

Ok Rakai!

#51 RakaiThwei

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:51 PM

I think so.


Your opinion.

Really, when I first joined this site I wanted to educate people that they weren't just scrubs like a lot of people think that they are. So I researched whatever was available to me in the films and the expanded universe, posted up whatever feats and scans I could-- even videos from certain games, one in particular which is hard for some people to swallow, and just worked with what I had available to me. I know that the strength debate was settled between me and Skir, who was one of my biggest detractors and critics.

Regarding everything else which the Yautja are capable of... Well, I am not sure if you read any of the novels or comics, or played many of the games, Jaeger but everything I know comes from the material which has been made available to me and discussions with some cast and crew of the films, as well as researching various forums.

Ok Rakai!


That's a good boy!

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#52 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:52 PM

Your opinion.

#53 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:53 PM

Did you just call me a boy?

#54 RakaiThwei

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:54 PM

Your opinion.


Did you eat those packet of donuts already?

Did you just call me a boy?


Did you stop playing with yourself? :lol:


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#55 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:56 PM

Touché.

#56 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:58 PM

Did you eat those packet of donuts already?



Did you stop playing with yourself?


-Rakai'Thwei


What's it with you and me with donuts?

Got a fetish?

FYI ate one out of the bundle

#57 RakaiThwei

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:01 AM

What's it with you and me with donuts?


I don't know... I just have this weird image association and... I just for whatever reason pictured you as a pudgy person who has an affinity for pastries. So I kind of made that into a running gag of sorts. My own private in-joke to myself.

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#58 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:04 AM

I can tell you he's a little on the heavy side. Come on Ethan, run to California. RUN FORREST RUN.

#59 xLEGACYx

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:07 AM

:ph34r: *peaks into room*

Pred wins if both affected by Mars gravity. Carter wins if only he is affected

#60 skadoosh

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 06:19 AM

*peaks into room*

Pred wins if both affected by Mars gravity. Carter wins if only he is affected


Perfectly valid, well done.




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