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Match 13399 Horsemen of Apocalypse and X-Men vs. Z fighters


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#61 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:34 PM

oops, someone got there before me.

#62 KidStranglehold

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:57 PM

Someone may correct me on this, but I don't think so. Rogue absorbed Ms. Marvel's powers fairly early in her career. Back then, all Ms. M had was a super-strength, a level of invulnerability, and flight. It was only when she got her powers back that she gained energy absorbtion so Rogue wouldn't have access to it.


^^^ We already corrected this...

#63 Callisto

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:15 PM

Match Final Results
USER RATINGS
B
SCORE
X-Men and Horsemen of Apocalypse: 13
Z fighters: 16
FPA: 3.0


#64 xLEGACYx

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:05 PM

Really? ^^^

I'm so confused by our members now. The z fighters had no hope to defeat apocalypse and his horsemen but I guess it was the DBZ, one in a million chance win through desperation that pulled it off.

#65 The Lord Dragon Reborn

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:53 PM

DBZ fans have blind loyalty when it comes to voting. They don't care about the scenario, they just know that their precious Goku beats all.

#66 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:19 PM

Well... there's a good bit of truth to that, but it's also true that it's hard to compare American comics and animation to Japanese because the conventions are so different. You never find battles that last for half a dozen episodes on Batman: TAS or Avengers, and characters don't transcend their limits every single episode the way they do in anime. If you like American style better, Anime/Manga can seem really over the top and full of unreliable exaggerations. If you like Japanese style better American comics/cartoons can seem lame and the characters weak.and Something like DBZ is just more over the top, which is not necessarily a good or bad thing, just a stylistic choice.

I think the preference is basically honest. It's hard to judge rationally between the two because the storytelling styles are so different so they judge emotionally. Goku wins because the way DBZ tells a story feels more powerful to them than Ameircan animation.

#67 kainboa

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:13 AM

It's actually not all that hard to compare them, you just have to compare the actions, an the results of those actions, of the characters, rather than talking about the style of storytelling, and the "feel" of the story.


For the purpose of a fight, based on their actions, and the result of those, we can fairly easily figure out who would win.

#68 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:24 AM

You must be a lot smarter than me because I find it frustratingly difficult to evaluate the power of anime characters.Some are pretty consistent but when you get into DBZ or Naruto they are wildly inconsistent. At the beginning of the series Goku can lift 40 tons on King Kai's world... Piccolo is slightly weaker than Goku but he is powerful enough to blow up the moon! (Which is especially strange since there shouldn't be a moon because the [much weaker] Master Roshi blew it up in DB .)

I thought that Death Battle did a great job of quantifying Goku's powers. It makes sense and I'm happy to accept it, but a being who is at the level of power they describe during the Nappa / Vegita fights could not possibly have caused the kind of destruction we saw.

Vegeta tells us (and shows us) that someone at his power level (IIRC 4000) can destroy a planet. That's as a strong Saiyan who hasn't even reaches SS-1. DBZ fans look at over the top statements like that and project that when he gets to a level of a million he can wreck solar systems pretty casually. Then there's the thing about Brolly destroying a galaxy,

Western comics / animation can be inconsistent too, but not nearly to the level of DBZ. Being logically consistent counts for nothing in their stories. Providing visually exciting battles and creating drama by placing the heroes against ridiculously powerful foes is what they're all about.

#69 MarvelFan15

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:56 AM

It's not inconsistent too much, really. Just takes some getting used to.

You must be a lot smarter than me because I find it frustratingly difficult to evaluate the power of anime characters.Some are pretty consistent but when you get into DBZ or Naruto they are wildly inconsistent. At the beginning of the series Goku can lift 40 tons on King Kai's world... Piccolo is slightly weaker than Goku but he is powerful enough to blow up the moon! (Which is especially strange since there shouldn't be a moon because the [much weaker] Master Roshi blew it up in DB .)


Goku's weight training took place after the Android saga (I think), but definitely after the Frieza saga, which was closer towards the end of the series than the beginning.

I thought that Death Battle did a great job of quantifying Goku's powers. It makes sense and I'm happy to accept it, but a being who is at the level of power they describe during the Nappa / Vegita fights could not possibly have caused the kind of destruction we saw.


They didn't use Goku during Vegeta's evil tenure. They presumed that was his base level, and extrapolated his stength from the Super Saiyan multipliers.

Vegeta tells us (and shows us) that someone at his power level (IIRC 4000) can destroy a planet. That's as a strong Saiyan who hasn't even reaches SS-1. DBZ fans look at over the top statements like that and project that when he gets to a level of a million he can wreck solar systems pretty casually. Then there's the thing about Brolly destroying a galaxy,


No character before the Frieza saga ever destroyed a planet. And even then it was through a chain reaction. Vegeta's statements are generally seen as hyperbole.

Oh, and Broly didn't up and destroy a galaxy. We can clearly see it spinning as it disintegrates, indicating that the process of destruction took place over thousands of years. Then there's the fact that the movie took place in the galaxy that was supposedly destroyed...


Western comics / animation can be inconsistent too, but not nearly to the level of DBZ. Being logically consistent counts for nothing in their stories. Providing visually exciting battles and creating drama by placing the heroes against ridiculously powerful foes is what they're all about.


DBZ is actually fairly consistent in its own right, but is so vague as to make a proper gauging of power hard to do at times, since the only indication we ever receive is "Person A > Person B > Person C" and so on.

#70 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:17 AM

King Vegeta destroyed 3 planets way before the Frieza saga actually.

#71 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:43 AM

Wasn't his power level about 10000?

#72 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:43 AM

Yeah.

#73 xLEGACYx

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:47 AM

What I think Marvel Fan was getting at was they would destroy a planet but not up and blow it away with there own power. Now I havent seen the bit with King Vegeta but with Frieza, he shot a blast into the core of Namek that caused it to slowly destroy itself.

#74 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:51 AM



3. On his own power.

#75 xLEGACYx

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:52 AM

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybod9EleH9E

3. On his own power.

well that kinda blows that idea out of the water.

#76 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:53 AM

Also, considering Piccolo could casually blow away a moon with a power level of around 320, it stands to reason that anyone with a power level of around four times that could destroy an Earth-sized planet, given the size of the moon in relation to Earth...

#77 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:47 AM

It's not inconsistent too much, really. Just takes some getting used to.

To be fair, they are consistent about who is stronger than whom. I disagree that there is any consistency about how their powers affect the world.

Goku's weight training took place after the Android saga (I think), but definitely after the Frieza saga, which was closer towards the end of the series than the beginning.

I may have that confused because the Death Battles video used it together with crossing Snake Way to fight Nappa and Vegeta.

They didn't use Goku during Vegeta's evil tenure. They presumed that was his base level, and extrapolated his stength from the Super Saiyan multipliers.

I don;t understand what you're saying here. The first sentence sounds like you're saying that they didn't use Goku's strength when he fought Vegeta as a base and the second sentence sounds like you're saying they did.

No character before the Frieza saga ever destroyed a planet. And even then it was through a chain reaction. Vegeta's statements are generally seen as hyperbole.

This has been answered by others.

Oh, and Broly didn't up and destroy a galaxy. We can clearly see it spinning as it disintegrates, indicating that the process of destruction took place over thousands of years. Then there's the fact that the movie took place in the galaxy that was supposedly destroyed...

I understand that it's debatable, and what we see is inconsistent with what we're told. That is getting away from the point I was making, though. It's easy to understand why a DBZ fan, who takes the show literally, would think the characters are much more powerful than DC superheroes. I'm not saying I agree with them (I don't) only that it is easy to understand them. DBZ is built on hyperbole and big splashy shows of power. The fans are being honest when they favor their characters, they just aren't being analytical.

DBZ is actually fairly consistent in its own right, but is so vague as to make a proper gauging of power hard to do at times, since the only indication we ever receive is "Person A > Person B > Person C" and so on.

Right. And there is my point.



#78 sirmethos

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:10 AM

Also, considering Piccolo could casually blow away a moon with a power level of around 320, it stands to reason that anyone with a power level of around four times that could destroy an Earth-sized planet, given the size of the moon in relation to Earth...


Following that logic, it stands to reason that a normal human in DBZ, if they learned to utilize their Ki(without enhancing it from their power level of 5), would be able to fire a blast that could destroy a mountain 20+ times the size of Mount Everest.

#79 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:34 AM

Thought ordinary humans had power levels of around 30? The farmer Raditz killed did, anyway.

#80 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:37 AM

Roshi is like 120 and he destroyed the moon, which is kinda a better showing than the likes of Piccolo destroying the moon?




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