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Match 13359 The Dragon Ball Universe vs. Greek Pantheon (Mythology)


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#41 DSkillz

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:53 PM

Huh, that's unusual. Maybe try to vote again. You'll be told that you already voted on this match, but the Rate It options should show right below.

#42 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:25 PM

Nope, this is there though "To use the the sites member features create an Electricferret Account."

#43 DSkillz

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:27 PM

Wow, even weirder. That might be a bug that Fox should probably know about.

#44 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:14 PM

In mythology...

Olympians - There are several powers that all the Olympians seem to have in common.
- Shape-changing into animals, plants, disguising themselves as mortals, etc. While each Olympian has favorite forms, there doesn't seem to be any practical limit to the variety.
- Transforming mortals into plants, animals, inanimate objects, changing their gender, etc. The only limit I am aware of here is that one Olympian does not seem able to restore the original shape of someone another Olympian has transformed.
- Immortality, which for them seems to be more than not again. When the hero Achilles was born his mother washed away all his mortality in the Styx. After that, no mortal weapon could hurt him, except for his heel which missed getting the treatment. The Olympians are like this. Godly weapons can harm them but even those won't kill them. They can be eaten, beheaded, etc. and still live until their immortality is removed. Presumably SF weapons or extreme modern weapons like thermonuclear devices might harm them but that's impossible to judge based on the myths.
- Hephaestus weapons and armor. If the Olympians are arrayed for battle, it is likely that they won't come without armor. This is made by Hephaestus and is, if not indestructible and impenetrable, the next best thing. The word "adamantine" is used to describe the armor he makes, suggesting nothing can breach them.
- Divine strength. The level of the strength is not known for most of the Olympians but it is vast.

Zeus - When Heracles became immortal and came to Olympus he wrestled Zeus to a standstill, so they are roughly equal in strength. None of the other Olympians could match this. If we want to measure this, Heracles' greatest feat of strength was to bear the weight of the earth (or the sky) on his shoulders. This could be considered comparable to the scan in several recent threads of Superman bench-pressing a weight equivalent to the earth. This suggests that Atlas, Heracles, and Zeus would all have roughly Superman-level strength.
- Zeus' weapon is the thunderbolt. He keeps them in quiver and has an eagle who brings him fresh bolts when the quiver is empty. His use of the thunderbolt and his role as sky-father suggests control over weather, though you don;t see him using this in the myths that much.
- His shield is the Aegis (which he sometimes loaned to Athena.) It is covered with the hide of the primordial she-goat Adhumbla and (supposedly) nothing can penetrate it. After Perseus slew Medusa, her face was placed on the shield and anyone who looks on it is turned to stone.
- Zeus is limited in that he cannot change something the Fates have ordained. He was overpowered once by the monster, Typhon so there is the possibility of stronger beings in the Greek Myth universe.

Poseidon - Close to Zeus in strength but not equal, master of the oceans and creator of earthquakes and storms. He has the power to change his shape, or that of mortals, similar to Zeus. He wields a trident forged by Hephaestus.

Hera - Very powerful but had to be saved from a giant by Heracles in the war with he sons of Gaia. I don't find any special weapons or warlike powers assigned to her. She seems to have stayed away from fighting when possible.

Hermes - His special combat attribute was his speed which was augmented by his winged sandals. He could travel anywhere, even between the worlds, instantly, or maybe almost instantly.

Hephaestus - Humpbacked but very strong, his big contribution is his ability to forge irresistible weapons (even Zeus' thunderbolts are made on his forge) invulnerable armor, and amazingly complex devices, like the life-like metal automatons who assisted him and the golden net trap that captured his wife, Aphrodite, in flagrante delicto with her lover Ares. The Olympians were unable to free themselves.

Aphrodite - She's a lover, not a fighter, but can cause a lot of morale disruption. She is irresistibly beautiful and wears a girdle forged by her husband that makes her even moreso. She will be even worse if she borrows her son Eros' bow and arrows. The golden arrows cause unquenchable sexual desire and the lead ones cause violent hatred. She could potentially get the Z fighters fighting each others, or worse, make Vegeta fall in love with Goku.

Dionysus - Ropes of any kind will not bind him, he has turned into a lion or panther in battle, and he is berserk, bat-shit crazy.

Apollo and Artemis - Their weapons are bows (gold and silver respectively) whose shafts strike like rays of light. In addition to physical damage they can cause disease or madness.

Demeter - While she is powerful and controls the fertility of the earth, she doesn't seem to have any special weapons or battle attributes.

Athena - Her weapon is the spear and she is the best strategist/tactician of the Olympians with the possible exception of Zeus. She is an outstanding fighter.

Ares - The god of war is strong, and a fierce fighter, though in the Iliad, Athena kicks his butt.

---------------------------------------------------

Heracles - Strength is discussed above. He wields a club and a bow. His arrows are dipped in the venom of the Hydra which is instantly fatal to a mortal and will place an immortal in perpetual agony. He wears the impenetrable skin of the Nemean Lion. Following his ascension to Olympus, he has the same immortality as the Olympians.

Achilles is a peak human killing machine with armor and weapons forged by Hephaestus. His body is immortal except for one of his heels. IMO he can beat fighters like Hercule but will not be much help against the big guns.

Odysseus - Peak human fighter, his greatest asset is his cunning mind.

Jason - Peak human fighter. Not as smart as Odysseus. Especially dumb when it comes to relationships.

Perseus - Peak human fighter with lots of nice toys: adamantine sword, helm of shadows (makes the wearer invisible to gods or mortals), winged sandals (flight and Hermes-like speed) and mirror-like adamantine shield.

Theseus - Peak human fighter who seems to have some degree of superhuman strength. Accounts differ about whether he killed the Minotaur with his fists, a sword, or wrestled it down and then used the sword.

#45 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:14 PM

Outstanding set up, BTW!

#46 sirmethos

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:54 PM

The Aegis(zeus' shield) is covered with the hide of Amalthea(also called Adamanthea, Amaltheia, or Aega), not Audhumbla.

Amalthea is/was Zeus' nurse/foster mother, in Greek mythology.

Audhumbla is/was the primeval cow in norse mythology.

There is a fine, but distinct difference. Just like they are both different from Hathor, or any of the other mythological cows or cow gods from other mythologies.



That said, we still need to know which versions of the mythological Greek Gods we are dealing with, before we can engage in any kind of meaningful discussion about the outcome of the fight, since the capabilities of the gods differ greatly from one tradition to another.

#47 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:07 AM

The Aegis(zeus' shield) is covered with the hide of Amalthea(also called Adamanthea, Amaltheia, or Aega), not Audhumbla.

Amalthea is/was Zeus' nurse/foster mother, in Greek mythology.

Audhumbla is/was the primeval cow in norse mythology.


You're right. My fault for \relying on memory.

#48 khoi

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:07 AM

Good set-up FTW!!!

#49 Darksaiyajin345

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:10 AM

Awesome data:image/png;base64,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

In the claim that Broly is a "galaxy buster"/that Broly can "bust a galaxy", there is actually two claims. A. That the galaxy was destroyed. and B. That Broly did it with a single attack. If Broly did not do it with a single attack, then he would, at best, be a multi-solar system buster.

Now, I'll address those two separately.

1. The video(the intro of the movie) shows the galaxy, visibly moving. Even the 'destruction' of the galaxy, takes place while the galaxy is visibly moving. This shows us, quite clearly, that the galaxy was not 'destroyed' instantly, but over a longer period of time.
To support that, during the actual movie, we see several flashbacks of Broly, in the process of destroying planets

I don't agree completely with most of these points since for the galaxy to turn what it did in the video would mean Broly and the whole Z-cast minus the Kaios and Roshi would be dead meaning its terrible to use as a time interval.The flashback also shows Broly sleeping out of his SSJ form meaning he stopped, to do the damage he did he would have to have gone non stop his whole life and thats assuming only Star firepower and Massively FTL speeds

2.
We also see Goku searching the South Galaxy for the Super Saiyan, following the 'energy trail'. On several of the planets, including the first one he lands on in the South Galaxy, we see stars in the night sky, just as many as you would in a regular night sky. That =/= a destroyed galaxy.

Galaxies are big very very big Broly could have destroyed almost everything and a small amount could have been left (Due to the size a small amount can be thousands of stars and planets) and the night sky could very well look normal we cant even see a fraction of the stars in the galaxy or the center or almost anything.

We do see the damage on screen though
But you are right I cant prove he did it in 1 attack though he did it fast enough to suddenly gain Kiao's attention so at the very least he has Star System destructive capability and FTL speed (He is FTL anyway from movie 10)

#50 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:15 AM

I doubt he is FTL.

#51 Darksaiyajin345

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:19 AM

I doubt he is FTL.

He reacted to a Kamhemeha that carried him to the sun in a few seconds.

#52 kainboa

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:39 AM

Match looks good from a glance, Culwych. I'll check it out in a bit.



You have to vote on a winner first. From there, the Rate option will pop up.

I did, but it wasn't there.

Huh, that's unusual. Maybe try to vote again. You'll be told that you already voted on this match, but the Rate It options should show right below.

Nope, this is there though "To use the the sites member features create an Electricferret Account."

Wow, even weirder. That might be a bug that Fox should probably know about.


I've encountered that same bug a couple of times, just log out and log back in, I haven't encountered any time where that didn't fix the 'bug' for me.

I'm guessing it has something to do with the site not properly reading you as logged in, when you have remained logged in for a long time, without actually having the site open in your browser, since fox said something about remembering to log out when you're finished on the site for now a while ago, though how it actually works, I'm not sure.

#53 lordkingofemperors

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:14 PM

The Greek pantheon includes Gaia (the Earth) and Uranus (the Sky) so the Greek pantheon wins because you can't blow up the sky.

#54 lordkingofemperors

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:18 PM

Also Gaia being a personifcation wouldn't do nothing as the DB characters try to blow her up.

#55 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:19 PM

YOUR ANUS IS THE SKY

#56 khoi

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:34 PM

My Face is an sky.

#57 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:42 PM

STFU.

#58 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:47 PM

My Face is an sky.


Yes, STFU

#59 MarvelFan15

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:57 PM

Zeus -
- Zeus is limited in that he cannot change something the Fates have ordained. He was overpowered once by the monster, Typhon so there is the possibility of stronger beings in the Greek Myth universe.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this alternates, though. Sometimes he is depicted as being able to command the Fates, so I'm not entirely sure what we should have him do in this battle. If he's capable of commanding fate...well, then the DBZers loose pretty horribly if Zeus records their loss in their destiny.

#60 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:06 PM

The Greek pantheon includes Gaia (the Earth) and Uranus (the Sky) so the Greek pantheon wins because you can't blow up the sky.


Actually, no. The Pantheon technically refers to the 12 ruling Olympians and doesn't include the myriads of lesser gods or beings like the titans. Gaia and Uranos are technically titans, not Olympians and not part of the Pantheon.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this alternates, though. Sometimes he is depicted as being able to command the Fates, so I'm not entirely sure what we should have him do in this battle. If he's capable of commanding fate...well, then the DBZers loose pretty horribly if Zeus records their loss in their destiny.


I could be wrong, but I think that Zeus controlling the fates is something you only see in fairly modern sources. In Greek drama, Fate is more powerful than even the gods.




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