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Match 13238 Clark Kent (Smallville) and Justice League and Justice Society of America vs. Apocalypse and Horsemen of Apocalypse and X-Men


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#21 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:12 AM

But isn't Apocalypse a mutant himself?

#22 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:18 AM

I tired to ask this before but it went to the wrong thread. :wacko:

What are the effective limits of Zatanna's powers? I know she can's just say, "Reverof esidarap a eb htrae yam dna ecaep ta eb elpoep lla yam."

I've never seen her limits defined that I remember, but I suspect that removing everybody's mutany powers may be above her pay grade.

#23 comic_book_fan

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:20 AM

yeah but most of his powers come from his tec.
and apocalypse still had all his powers after the no more mutants thing.
magic does little to him he was attacked by loki and laughed at him.

#24 bigballerju

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:03 AM

Apocalypse wasn't affected by Wanda not because he can't be hurt by magic but because he had the techno-organic virus, didn't have a body which was why the virus rewrote his genetic code to form him a body, and other stuff. Loki's magic not hurting Apocalypse doesn't prove anything. Loki's magic is to perform deception, tricks, illusions, and all sorts of stuff like that. Yeah he has some powerful magic. However there are others way more powerful then Loki in actually magic. Apocalypse is in a different universe where magic is going to be different.

#25 xLEGACYx

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:59 AM

I tired to ask this before but it went to the wrong thread.

What are the effective limits of Zatanna's powers? I know she can's just say, "Reverof esidarap a eb htrae yam dna ecaep ta eb elpoep lla yam."

I've never seen her limits defined that I remember, but I suspect that removing everybody's mutany powers may be above her pay grade.

So far the only limit she has for sure shown, is she cant bring the dead back to life.

Personally I dont think she could remove the mutants powers permanently but more than likely temporarily for the match is quite possible. If you combine her magic with Fate, then those two alone have massive potential against there foes. Add in the heavy hitters and team doesnt have what it takes to beat team 1

#26 comic_book_fan

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:17 PM

even if it did work which is a long shot because zantana is not a realilty warper scarlet witch was when she did that hulk would still be war because the torture and the tec that made him war would already be implanted and the only powers apocalypse would lose is his mollecular manipulation which is what makes him so damn hard to put down but he would still have superstrength and energey manipulation of course his strength would be decreased but he would still be very strong.
i think team 2 owns.

#27 comic_book_fan

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:27 PM

and realy any of them who have to eat are killed by sunfire the numbers advantage when you think about it the numbers game is not all that great in tje jla team's favor considering how fast any human or human like member are going to die between all the horsemen and x-men killing them.

#28 xLEGACYx

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:31 PM

even if it did work which is a long shot because zantana is not a realilty warper scarlet witch was when she did that hulk would still be war because the torture and the tec that made him war would already be implanted and the only powers apocalypse would lose is his mollecular manipulation which is what makes him so damn hard to put down but he would still have superstrength and energey manipulation of course his strength would be decreased but he would still be very strong.
i think team 2 owns.

its actually quite logical. She could simply block their x gene, if only for the fight. Then Hulk and Apocalypse could not stand up to the power the others possess.

#29 xLEGACYx

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:34 PM

to be honest, the only people that stand a chance are Colossus, Hulk, and Apocalypse for team 2. The rest are taken out rather easily even if Zatanna didnt take away their power.

Other than the three mentioned above, the rest can be taken out by one or two members of team 1

#30 comic_book_fan

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 02:12 PM

its actually quite logical. She could simply block their x gene, if only for the fight. Then Hulk and Apocalypse could not stand up to the power the others possess.

thats if she isn't killed first and hulk wouldn't be effected by blocking x genes at all and would still have his war power up thats from tec it has nothing to do with apocalypse's mutant powers.
and apocalypse would be vulnrable but it would still be verry hard to put down.
and if fate and zantana have to eat they would more likely be killed by sunfire before they ever got the chance to do anything to apocalypse.

#31 xLEGACYx

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 03:47 PM

thats if she isn't killed first and hulk wouldn't be effected by blocking x genes at all and would still have his war power up thats from tec it has nothing to do with apocalypse's mutant powers.
and apocalypse would be vulnrable but it would still be verry hard to put down.
and if fate and zantana have to eat they would more likely be killed by sunfire before they ever got the chance to do anything to apocalypse.

First, I know Hulk wouldnt be affected but he cant beat Smallville Clark in the first place. He moved a planet with ease. He destroyed a Darkseid avatar in a single blow.

Second, Apocalypse isnt powerful enough to stop the onslaught of heroes he, Hulk, and Colossus will be left to fight. All others can take out the X-Men and horsemen pretty quickly.

Third, Zatanna can do her thing supressing the x-gene. During this time Fate is skilled enough to rival Sorcerer Supreme Strange. So he can deal with the other minor beings like Sunfire.

Fourth, I know there would be losses on the JLA/JSA side but not completely annihilated like Team 2. When Zatanna supresses the x-gene only Hulk (not a mutant), Colossus (Cyrotak?), and Apocalypse (tech) will be left unaffected. The three of them cant stand against the powerhouses of Team 1.

#32 comic_book_fan

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:06 PM

going by powers hulk and apocalypse has limitless strength and i don't care how strong superman he has a limit and apocalypse can't be hurt with punches the one who has a shot is fate and thats only a maybe because we don't know how he responds to that kind of magic noone else here can hurt apocalypse even if they do he can heal himself at will psi attacks won't do a thing strength he is as strong as he wants to be without the good guy having to win apocalypse would never have lost.

#33 xLEGACYx

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:15 PM

going by powers hulk and apocalypse has limitless strength and i don't care how strong superman he has a limit and apocalypse can't be hurt with punches the one who has a shot is fate and thats only a maybe because we don't know how he responds to that kind of magic noone else here can hurt apocalypse even if they do he can heal himself at will psi attacks won't do a thing strength he is as strong as he wants to be without the good guy having to win apocalypse would never have lost.

with the magic, psi attacks, and the raw power they have more than enough to beat them.

#34 comic_book_fan

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:37 PM

see anyone who needs food is dead when sunfire flies over them that kills anyone who is not from krypton and manhunter and maybe green lanterns and with fate and zantana out of the way there is noone else can beat apocalypse hulk will easly apocalypse takes down superman with a psi attack or he might just beat him to death all of the weaker mutants will die as well.
soon it will be apocalypse magneto juggernaut and hulk against superwoman wonderwoman manhunter and the 2 gl's .
at the end of this it will come down to apocalypse vs manhunter apocalypse kills manhunter in the end because he has everypower manhunter has just to a higher level the only advantage manhunter has is speed but that won't realy help him .

#35 xLEGACYx

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:43 PM

see anyone who needs food is dead when sunfire flies over them that kills anyone who is not from krypton and manhunter and maybe green lanterns and with fate and zantana out of the way there is noone else can beat apocalypse hulk will easly apocalypse takes down superman with a psi attack or he might just beat him to death all of the weaker mutants will die as well.
soon it will be apocalypse magneto juggernaut and hulk against superwoman wonderwoman manhunter and the 2 gl's .
at the end of this it will come down to apocalypse vs manhunter apocalypse kills manhunter in the end because he has everypower manhunter has just to a higher level the only advantage manhunter has is speed but that won't realy help him .

well seeing as how Zatanna can speak before Sunfire gets the chance that wont work. Also with Fate's level of power he easily can protect them from such nonsense.

Seeing as how Apocalypse generally loses to the X-Men or Avengers, along with his horsemen, I dont see him winning against a superior JLA/JSA

#36 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 05:12 PM

Superman Apocalypse
Green Arrow Gambit
Batman Storm
Bart Allen Quicksilver
Martian Manhunter Sunfire / Famine
Doctor Fate Colossus / Juggernaut
Supergirl Pestelence / Polaris
Booster Gold Havok
Black Canary Cyclops
Zatanna Storm
Powergirl Rogue
Jay Garrick Northstar
Alan Scott Magneto
Hawk Girl Archangel / Death
Wonder Woman Hulk / War
Nightwing Iceman
Huntress
Red Hood
Red Arrow

The DC team has a clear advantage in numbers but most of that comes from low-power characters. Apocalypse has a clear advantage with mid-tier characters and there's a fair balance in the upper tiers. Zatanna is the wild card in this because the limits of her power are so poorly defines. Theoretically, all she needs to do is say, "Niw ew" but I've never seen her powers used in such a sweeping manner. Maybe she can win single-handed but I really doubt it.

I think there is a good chance of Apocalypse stopping Zatanna, and I think Juggernaut can stop Dr. Fate from running interference for her. Cain Marko was able to take on Dr. Strange on a magical level because his powers are based on the magic of Cittorak. I don't see why this would not be the case for Peter.

And I don't think Clark is as powerful as stated. He destroyed an avatar of Darksied, but this wasn't the same Darksied we've seen in DC Comics or DCAU. If Granny Goodness and the other minions we saw in Smallville are any indication, this was a vastly less powerful version.

As for Clark moving a planet... Well, the large object in this video clip is clearly meant to be Apocalypse, fire pits and all, but it's asteroid-sized. Compare it to Metropolis and you can see it's no more than a mile or two in diameter. And the fact that there's absolutely no gravitational perturbation shows that it's even less massive than it looks. It's only a few hundred feet over Metropolis and there's no visible damage from its tidal forces. Anything with a mass remotely like a planet would cause apocalyptic damage world-wide if it passed even a few thousand miles from earth.

Smallville Clark is strong, no doubt, but he is far from a world-shifter.

#37 The Lord Dragon Reborn

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:14 PM

You've got Storm twice.

#38 bigballerju

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:26 PM

Actually that was a planet Clark moved. They clearly showed it in the tv show and said it in the Season 11 comics. Also Clark Kent is as strong as stated. Clark Kent said it himself as soon as he accepted his kryptonian part of him his super strength increased which is why it shot up to moving a planet.

LOL don't take this seriously or be offended but that was clearly a planet Clark Kent moved. It was the same size as Earth. What series finale did you see?




#39 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:46 AM

The same episode I linked to and the same one that you tried to embed.

Since we have different interpretations, here's the image. I'll tell you what I see and you can tell me why I'm wrong. Fair? :)

Posted Image


What I see is a big spherical "planet" hovering a short distance over Metropolis. It's hanging at several times the height of the tallest buildings and was visibly getting closer in the episode. Fortunately, Clark stopped it before it could touch down. I don't know why Darksied would want to make his planet touch down on earth, but there it is.

The curvature of the planet is clearly seen though the earth's curvature is not, even though the two planets are nearly touching. If you superimpose Metropolis onto Apocalips it would cover a large portion of the globe. Compated to the earth, this sphere is tiny.

It's hard to estimate the section of Metropolis we're looking at but, for argument's sake, let's say it's 10 miles from one edge of the photo to the other. Apocolips extends a little beyond the edges picture so it's wider. I'm just estimating again, but maybe 16 miles across. That would yield a volume of 2145 cubic miles.

You can call that a planet if you like (and I know they did on the show) but the earth is 120,000,000 times that size.
The smallest planet in the system, Mercury, is 6,800,000 times that size.
The moon is 2,500,000 times that size.
The dwarf planet Pluto (too small to be considered a planet) is 700,000 times that size.
Ceres, the biggest asteroid, is 51,000 times that size
There are 1220 asteroids in our system larger than this "planet" and objects this size are not even naturally spherical. If this is Apocalips, I can only assume that Darksied artificially shaped it.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that I'm wrong. The image is wrong; it was just a symbolic representation and Darksied's planet is at least as big as the earth. Why didn't it destroy the earth?

If a planet anything close to the size of earth came at all close to us, the gravitational forces would disrupt weather patterns all over the globe--not just the light winds and dark skies we saw on "Smallville." There would be super storms bigger than anything in history everywhere across the planet. The tectonic plates would shift causing colossal earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanic erruptions that would ravage the surface of the earth.

This didn't happen on "Smallville." There are only two explanations that I can think of.

1) The "planet" was the much smaller than a real planet. It was the 16 mile sphere shown in the image.

2) The show's writers were being really lazy that day. :P

#40 comic_book_fan

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:19 AM

even in the comics apocalips is much smaller than earth.
i think magneto could move it has so much metal in it.




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