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#21 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 01:24 PM

why is he not using any of his other powers and superman has beaten ultraman before as well so it proves nothing.


Because Manhunter was kicking his ass too badly? You know how difficult it is to throw a punch when there's someone bigger and stronger than you holding you down and beating the crap out of you, right? Really, you're grasping at straws now.

Yes, but Manhunter has beaten Superman more frequently.

#22 comic_book_fan

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 01:34 PM

Because Manhunter was kicking his ass too badly? You know how difficult it is to throw a punch when there's someone bigger and stronger than you holding you down and beating the crap out of you, right? Really, you're grasping at straws now.

Yes, but Manhunter has beaten Superman more frequently.

harder to throw a punch but not stare at someone verry hard that was another case of cis and because he was a villian not to mention that energey attack was more then likely telepathic draining ultraman he did not just overpower him he tackled him then blasted him with an energy attack thats not the same i could tackle just about anyone an knock them down that don't make me stronger.

#23 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 01:43 PM

What point are you trying to prove, exactly? That scan shows that Manhunter is considerably more powerful than Superman.

#24 bigballerju

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 01:54 PM

Actually Ultraman has beaten Superman before and proven to be just as powerful in battle so yea it proves his point.

Manhunter using telepathy on Spectre. Shows you how powerful he is.

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Martian Manhunter smacking the crap out of Prime.

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Martian Mahunter hurting Black Adam during the battle in 52. This is just one scan. Manhunter is strong enough to battle Black Adam physically.

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#25 bigballerju

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 01:56 PM

To be fair, the same statement can be made about any other DC or Marvel character.


Actually no Sentry's f**ked up mind had his power level go up and down constantly in the short time over the few years Sentry was around.

#26 potterpuppetpals

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 02:06 PM

The Naruto team get wiped out instantly. And to be honest, this whole Marvel vs DC vs DBZ thing just bores me now. If you're gonna do it, at least include different characters instead of all the obvious ones.

#27 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 02:35 PM

Because Manhunter was kicking his ass too badly? You know how difficult it is to throw a punch when there's someone bigger and stronger than you holding you down and beating the crap out of you, right? Really, you're grasping at straws now.

Yes, but Manhunter has beaten Superman more frequently.


I'm not familiar with any of these defeats, and your scans didn't show him defeating Superman. I do agree that defeating Ultraman shows that he could defeat Supes, but not that he would. On the other hand, this is unambiguous.

Posted Image

J'onn gets in some good shots before Superman takes him down with one punch and they agree that Superman is more powerful.Posted Image

#28 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 02:48 PM

What year is that from? That looks pre-crisis to me.

If he can own Ultraman that badly, logic dictates he could do the same to Supes. He might be a little below the Man of Steel in terms of pure physical power (though his numerous showings demonstrate otherwise), but his other abilities more than make up for it.

#29 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 03:10 PM

Those showed up in reverse order, but yeah...

J'onn is one of the DC earth's most powerful heroes. He has more powers than Superman and is nearly as strong. He can hurt Prime with a punch, he can go toe to toe with Black Adam, he can stagger even the Specter with his telepathy. He's very powerful.

But none of your scans show a clear victory over one of these foes (except Ultraman) and nothing anyone has shown backs up the statement that he has ever beaten Superman, let alone frequently. When did these frequent victories happen?

#30 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 03:20 PM

I didn't say he's beaten Superman frequently, I said he's beaten Superman more frequently than Supes has beaten him. In Superman's favor, we have that one fight you posted, which I'm not even sure is canon with the current DCU. In Manhunter's favor, we have the two scans I posted earlier (Ultraman has exactly the same abilities as Supes-- the only difference is that he doesn't hold back, so there's no reason that instance shouldn't be taken as proof the Manhunter can defeat Superman. In the other scan I posted, Superman talked Manhunter down on the next page, but the Martian had a clear advantage).

He also took out Apollo, who is in Superman's weight class, rather easily, even tanking a punch from him.

Posted Image

#31 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 03:30 PM

What year is that from? That looks pre-crisis to me.


My scans? Yes, they're pre-Crisis. DC Presents #27.


If he can own Ultraman that badly, logic dictates he could do the same to Supes. He might be a little below the Man of Steel in terms of pure physical power (though his numerous showings demonstrate otherwise), but his other abilities more than make up for it.


What are these "numerous showings" that prove he's more powerful? He was clearly less powerful in Pre-Crisis DC and in DCAU. Have they changed this since Crisis?

The scans you've posted show that he's powerful enough to hurt (though not defeat) Superman, Black Adam, and Prime with a single attack, and that his telepathy can affect even the Spectre. (I haven't read that story, but it looks like he's trying to force Spectre to face some psychological truth rather than just telepathically blast him.)

He's really powerful, and could conceivably beat Superman, but I'd guess no more than one time in ten.

#32 bigballerju

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 03:31 PM

In the new 52 we know already Martian Manhunter fought the whole JLA and defeated Stormwatch when he left them. That's impressive already.

#33 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 03:43 PM

But, even Bishop can pummel J'onn pretty easily, and he doesn't even have super strength.


Posted Image
Okay, I'm just being obnoxious here. I do not count the absurd X-Men vs. JLA fight in DC Versus Marvel as evidence of anything more than spectacularly bad writing. :D

#34 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 03:48 PM

My scans? Yes, they're pre-Crisis. DC Presents #27.


Then it's non-canon to the most recent versions of the characters.

What are these "numerous showings" that prove he's more powerful? He was clearly less powerful in Pre-Crisis DC and in DCAU. Have they changed this since Crisis?

The scans you've posted show that he's powerful enough to hurt (though not defeat) Superman, Black Adam, and Prime with a single attack, and that his telepathy can affect even the Spectre. (I haven't read that story, but it looks like he's trying to force Spectre to face some psychological truth rather than just telepathically blast him.)

He's really powerful, and could conceivably beat Superman, but I'd guess no more than one time in ten.


You're basically answering your own question. Supes could never take down Apollo, Adam and Prime like that-- under normal circumstances, he'd be lucky to stalemate any of the three. And like I said, owning Ultraman pretty much proves he can take down Superman in the same way.

Hold on, one time in ten?! :o Manhunter's not that weak, he'd beat Superman more often than not. Even if you just take physical abilities into account, they're in the same league, but Manhunter's other abilities just put him ahead of Superman, plain and simple. Superman has no defense against Manhunter's telepathy, so he'd pretty much be screwed in an all out fight between the two.

#35 Dinsdale Piranha

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 04:07 PM

You're basically answering your own question. Supes could never take down Apollo, Adam and Prime like that-- under normal circumstances, he'd be lucky to stalemate any of the three. And like I said, owning Ultraman pretty much proves he can take down Superman in the same way.


Okay, but the scans don't show Manhunter beating these guys, they show him punching them. Are you saying that Superman isn't powerful enough to knock those guys down with a punch?

Hold on, one time in ten?! data:image/png;base64,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 Manhunter's not that weak, he'd beat Superman more often than not. Even if you just take physical abilities into account, they're in the same league, but Manhunter's other abilities just put him ahead of Superman, plain and simple. Superman has no defense against Manhunter's telepathy, so he'd pretty much be screwed in an all out fight between the two.


Okay, you've talked me into three times out of ten. :D

#36 force_echo

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 04:18 PM

I agree with Dinsdale in his point that you haven't concretely shown that Manhunter is able to take out superman. You haven't shown a single instance where Martian Manhunter beat Post-Crisis New Earth Superman. In an actual fight though, Manhunter would definitely win. Even if Supes is faster, stronger, etc. Manhunter has too many extra abilities. Go intangible and then telepathically blast Supes until he goes down.

#37 comic_book_fan

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 04:27 PM

i never said that martian manhunter could never beat superman i said he wasn't stronger and you have still not shown he is but my original point still stands that sentry is a match for the martian atleast keeping him busy while surfer finishes off hal surfer would still have enough to beat the martian.

#38 comic_book_fan

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 04:34 PM

and to be fair talking about the age of the scans all but like 1 maybe 2 of your guys scans were before 52 as well.

#39 bigballerju

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 06:36 PM

Okay good points on both sides. However I do have to bring up to be fair Superman has owned Ultraman's ass in a fight more then once. Even Supergirl defeated Ultraman. Superman could defeat Adam and Apollo . Although it would be a long fight for both.

Aaah well new 52 like I said Martian Manhunter took down the entire Stormwatch. He has also fought the JLA though we didn't see that one fight. If i can find scans of the Manhunter vs Stormwatch fight I will show it Manhunter has also fought a couple other people with Stormwatch.

Let me see what scans of new 52 I can find if you want to estimate how powerful he is new 52. I was debating Martian Manhunter before new 52 so your right about that. We know Superman new 52 is way more powerful then he was before new 52. Here is new 52 Martian Manhunter vs the Justice League however that's the only image they showed us of the fight so far.

Posted Image

#40 comic_book_fan

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:57 PM

Okay good points on both sides. However I do have to bring up to be fair Superman has owned Ultraman's ass in a fight more then once. Even Supergirl defeated Ultraman. Superman could defeat Adam and Apollo . Although it would be a long fight for both.

Aaah well new 52 like I said Martian Manhunter took down the entire Stormwatch. He has also fought the JLA though we didn't see that one fight. If i can find scans of the Manhunter vs Stormwatch fight I will show it Manhunter has also fought a couple other people with Stormwatch.

Let me see what scans of new 52 I can find if you want to estimate how powerful he is new 52. I was debating Martian Manhunter before new 52 so your right about that. We know Superman new 52 is way more powerful then he was before new 52. Here is new 52 Martian Manhunter vs the Justice League however that's the only image they showed us of the fight so far.

Posted Image

so this could just be a comic cover or is it the last page of a comic.




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