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Another American School Shooting


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#21 Darxeth

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:32 PM

In this particular case, just like in many of the other similar cases, the weapons belonged to a member of the family.

Making sure that the weapons you own are secured, i.e. that other people in the family can not get a hold of them, would go a pretty long way to help prevent things like this from happening.

Putting laws in place, requiring people to keep their weapons secure, would help a lot. It wouldn't completely prevent things from this happening, but it would make procuring weapons, more difficult. And that way, discourage some of the potential shooters.

If the shooter this time, had not been able to get a hold of firearms that belonged to his parents, would he still have gone ahead and done the same thing? Maybe, maybe not. There's no way to say, but the possibility alone, that it could prevent similar shootings, is enough.


And best part of laws like that, would be that the pro-gun people can't really argue against it. It wouldn't be taking away their right to own a firearm, it would just be a legal requirement, to keep their firearms secured.


I see. I agree with you. I should have been more specific. My point was, if people really want to obtain guns, they will.

I honestly agree wholeheartedly that people should secure their guns. I also think that in order for people to obtain a gun, they should undergo a series of mental health tests. (I'm not sure if they do that)

#22 Ruinus

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:41 PM

Sure, it's topical to talk gun debates right now... but it just seems odd to do it in the same thread, but whatever.

#23 silversurfer092

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:08 PM

I think what Ruinus is getting at is this. Yeah, this is the perfect time to debate the gun laws, but can we not do it in this thread? Why? It seems, not inhuman, but cold, to have another shooting and be like "Yep, another day to discuss gun laws". I'd say keep the tragedy separate from the debate, because then it lessens the tragic events. It makes what happened into just another statistic as to why we should/should not have gun laws.

#24 sirmethos

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:16 PM

I think what Ruinus is getting at is this. Yeah, this is the perfect time to debate the gun laws, but can we not do it in this thread? Why? It seems, not inhuman, but cold, to have another shooting and be like "Yep, another day to discuss gun laws". I'd say keep the tragedy separate from the debate, because then it lessens the tragic events. It makes what happened into just another statistic as to why we should/should not have gun laws.


It is just as much "just another statistic" as the thousands of people that die every day.

Especially with the number of similar shootings that have been in the last few years. It's horrible, tragic, yes. And our sympathies should definitely go out to the ones directly affected by it.

But as for 'statistic', with the way things are, we might as well just make a "mass death - shooting" thread, that can be revived when the next one happens, and the next one, and the next one.

Because "not lessening the tragedy" of the event, doesn't seem to change anything. Every. Single. Time, people have commented on how tragic it is, how horrible it is.

And yet, now, not even half a year after the last one, here we go again. -.-

#25 silversurfer092

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:34 PM

Don't get me wrong. With the super surge of shootings since Colorado and now this, gun laws have to be a top priority. But there is a place to discuss that and a thread for the tragedy is not the place. A thread for the effect of the tragedy? Yes. The thread for the tragedy? No

#26 Ruinus

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:46 PM

These Are Some of the Heroes from Newtown

As details emerge about what happened inside Sandy Hook Elementary Friday morning, we're beginning to be able to piece together a narrative, and see who the brave people at the school responsible for preventing any further harm are. If it wasn't for these people -- big and small -- who contributed in different ways, the shooting could have been even worse. Some of the survived and some of them didn't, but what matters is they helped yesterday, and they deserve to be recognized for their contributions:

•Dawn Hochsprung, the school's principal, who was only hired two years ago and was celebrated for her ability to make the school a warm, welcoming place for student and staff alike:

At one of those of morning meetings a few days ago, Ms. Hochsprung realized Connie Malgrande, a speech pathologist, seemed a little sad. She asked Ms. Malgrande into her office, decorated with family pictures and school activities. "She said, come on in and have some candy and let's talk it over," said Ms. Malgrande. "I considered her a friend. I'm going to miss her greatly."

• Mary Sherlach, one of the six adults killed, a school psychologist who was getting ready to retire at the end of the year:

John Button, 57, a friend of Ms. Sherlach’s husband, said Ms. Sherlach was getting ready to retire.

“It was going to be her last year — that’s what she said,” he said. “She loved her job,” he added. “She’s done this for her whole career.” [...]

“It’s ironic,” Mr. Button said. “At a time when kids need help, it was the school psychologist that was sacrificed.”

•An unknown person in the principal's office who turned on the school's loudspeaker:

Someone turned the loudspeaker on, so everyone could hear what was happening in the office.

"You could hear the hysteria that was going on," Varga said. "Whoever did that saved a lot of people. Everyone in the school was listening to the terror that was transpiring."

• Kaitlin Roig, the fourth grade teacher who told her students they would get to go home for christmas, and protected them by barricading themselves in the class bathroom:

When the shooting began, Roig said she quickly got up and closed her classroom door and ushered the children, all aged 6 and 7, into the class bathroom. She helped some climb onto the toilet so they could all fit. Roig said she then pushed a wheeled storage unit in front of the door.

"We all got in there. I locked us in," she said. "I don't know if [the gunman] came in the room... I just told them we have to be absolutely quiet."

From the AP report:
"If they started crying, I would take their face and say it's going to be OK. Show me your smile," she said. "They said, we want to go home for Christmas. Yes, yeah. I just want to hug my mom, things like that, that were just heartbreaking."

• This six-year-old who led his friends out of class after his teacher got shot:

Robert Licata said his 6-year-old son was in class when the gunman burst in and shot the teacher. "That's when my son grabbed a bunch of his friends and ran out the door," he said. "He was very brave. He waited for his friends."

• The custodian who went from classroom-to-classroom warning of a gunman:

A custodian ran around, warning people there was a gunman, Varga said.

"He said, 'Guys! Get down! Hide!'" Varga said. "So he was actually a hero."

Did he survive? The teacher did not know.

• Maryrose Kristopik, the music teacher who barricaded herself and 20 students into a closet. She used big instruments like xylophones to block the door and protect them from Lanza:

Mrs Kristopik said: ‘I did take the children into the closet and talked with them to keep them quiet. I told them that I loved them. I said there was a bad person in the school. I didn't want to tell them anything past that.'

It had previously been reported that there were 15 children in her care, but Mrs Kristopik told MailOnline there were 20 kids in the closet and there wasn’t enough space for them.

One door had several instruments, including big xylophones, blocking it, she said.

Mrs Kristopik said she was standing in front of the other door and holding the handle to keep the children out of harm's way.

• The fourth grader who wanted to use his karate to protect his classmates:

One student claimed to know karate. "It's OK. I'll lead the way out," the student said.

• The teacher who saved this eight-year-old's life:

"I saw some of the bullets going down the hall that I was right next to and then a teacher pulled me into her classroom," the student said.

"It sounded like someone was kicking a door," he said of the bullets.

This is in no way a complete list. Every teacher, student and school official at Sandy Hook Elementary is a hero this morning. And so are the police officials forced to face and investigate the aftermath of the crime, and everyone in the families of yesterday's victims are, too. But these are the anecdotes we have of some of the braver souls of the bunch. The ones who help the rest of us get through tough situations like this one. But, of course, if we happened to miss something we implore you to email us, so we can add their names to the list.



#27 Ruinus

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:53 PM

Because it doesn't seem to me that people are actually talking about the shooting and instead talking about gun laws.

Children in Connecticut rampage, all 6 and 7, shot repeatedly

NEWTOWN, Connecticut (Reuters) - Twelve girls and eight boys. One had celebrated her seventh birthday just four days before her death. They included Charlotte and Jack, Noah and Grace.

Dressed in "cute kid stuff," all 20 died when a heavily armed 20-year-old gunman forced his way into their school, Sandy Hook Elementary, and shot them and six women in an act of violence that has shattered their once-tranquil suburban town.

"They were first-graders," said Connecticut Chief Medical Examiner Dr. H. Wayne Carver II, before releasing the names of all the victims of the school shootings on Saturday.

Asked to describe the attack, Carver, who oversaw the autopsies of all the victims and conducted many himself, called it "the worst I have seen."

The shooter, identified by law enforcement officials as Adam Lanza, killed his mother Nancy on Friday, then drove to the school where he gunned down another 26 people before taking his own life in one of the deadliest mass shootings in U.S. history.

He fired a rifle, shooting his victims multiple times. Parents identified their children through pictures, a process intended to minimize their shock, Carver said.

Members of the close-knit community went into public mourning on Saturday as the depth of the tragedy became clear.

"I don't know how to get through something like this," said Robbie Parker, a 30-year-old physician's assistant whose 6-year-old daughter Emilie was among the dead.

"My wife and I don't understand how to process this and how to get our lives going," Parker told reporters. The oldest of his three kids, Emilie, "could just light up a room," he said.

Police did not officially identify Lanza or his mother, but his father on Saturday issued a statement saying he too was struggling to understand his son's actions.

"No words can truly express how heartbroken we are," Peter Lanza said. "We are in a state of disbelief and trying to find whatever answers we can."

While Americans have seen many mass shootings in the past decades, the victims have rarely been so young. On Saturday, some Democratic lawmakers called for sweeping new gun-control measures, a move certain to run up against stiff opposition from the nation's powerful pro-gun lobby.

President Barack Obama plans to travel to the affluent suburb of 27,000 people about 80 miles from New York City on Sunday to meet with victims' families and speak at a vigil at 7 p.m. local time (0000 GMT), the White House said.

In a nod to the sensitivities of the situation, the Fox TV network said late Saturday it would pull part of its regularly scheduled Sunday night block of animated shows - including a new episode of "American Dad" that featured in part a demon that punishes misbehaving children.

MISSING FROM THE NATIVITY

On Saturday night, the pews at Newtown's St. Rose of Lima Catholic Church were packed with parishioners attending a service that preceded an outdoor Nativity concert.

There was a live cow, a donkey and a camel. But at least one person was missing - 6-year-old Olivia Engel.

"She was supposed to be an angel in the play," said Reverend Robert Weiss. "Now she's an angel up in heaven."

Town fire officials set up 26 Christmas trees, decorated with stuffed animals, near the school as a memorial to the victims - many of whom were children who may have been hoping for such toys as their own holiday presents.

One of the victims, Josephine Gay, had celebrated her seventh birthday on Tuesday.

Rabbi Shaul Praver said he had spent time with Veronika Pozner, whose 6-year-old son Noah was among the victims.

"We encouraged her to focus on her other four children that need her and not to try to plan out the rest of her life," Praver said.

The adult victims, some of whom died defending the students, ranged in age from 27 to 56. Carver, the medical examiner, said all the bodies had examined had been shot with a rifle. He said he and his staff had not yet examined the shooter or his mother.

School officials said late Saturday they would keep all district schools closed Monday so staff could prepare for a Tuesday reopening. The one exception was Sandy Hook itself.

"We are very close to finalizing a plan that will allow Sandy Hook students to resume classes," school superintendent Janet Robinson said in a letter to the community. "We will communicate those details as soon as we can."

MOTIVES EMERGING

Police earlier said they had assembled "some very good evidence" on the killer's motives.

"Our investigators at the crime scene ... did produce some very good evidence in this investigation that our investigators will be able to use in, hopefully, painting the complete picture as to how - and more importantly why - this occurred," Connecticut State Police Lieutenant Paul Vance told reporters.

Lanza had struggled to fit in his suburban community and his mother Nancy pulled him out of school for several years to home-school him, said Louise Tambascio, the owner of My Place Restaurant, where his mother was a long-time patron.

Nancy Lanza legally owned a Sig Sauer and a Glock, both handguns commonly used by police, and a military-style Bushmaster .223 M4 carbine, according to law enforcement officials, who also said they believed Adam Lanza used at least some of those weapons.

But the details of why Lanza acted will be of little comfort to parents who will have to bury children at what should be one of the most festive times of the year.

"I looked underneath my Christmas tree and there's presents for my kids. How many others aren't able to give their kids presents? These people are going to be affected. Every time Christmas comes," said Benjamin Torres, 44, the owner of a roofing company in nearby Danbury who stopped in a local diner for breakfast Saturday.

The death toll exceeded that of one of the most notorious U.S. school shootings, the 1999 rampage at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, where two teenagers killed 13 students and staff before fatally shooting themselves.

At Virginia Tech, a Blacksburg, Virginia university where in 2007 a gunman killed 32 people in the deadliest school shooting in U.S. history, an announcer extended sympathies to the residents of Newtown before a basketball game.

"This campus ... shares a deep sense of grief," the announcer said. "We open our hearts to that community."

(Additional reporting by Dan Burns, Edward Krudy, Edith Honan, Chris Kaufman, Dave Gregorio, Colleen Jenkins, Chris Francescani and Alex Dobuzinskis; Writing by Scott Malone, Daniel Trotta and Ben Berkowitz; Editing by Will Dunham and Eric Walsh)



#28 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:06 AM

"I have presents sitting under the Christmas tree at home for a child I'm not going to see again in this lifetime."

Yeah. Just sad. Really hits home.

#29 Ruinus

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:13 AM

Names and ages of those killed in Conn. rampage

Names and ages of the 26 people gunned down at a Connecticut elementary school Friday in the second-deadliest school shooting in U.S. history:

Charlotte Bacon, 6

Daniel Barden, 7

Rachel Davino, 29

Olivia Engel, 6

Josephine Gay, 7

Ana Marquez-Greene, 6

Dylan Hockley, 6

Dawn Hochsprung, 47

Madeleine Hsu, 6

Catherine Hubbard, 6

Chase Kowalski, 7

Jesse Lewis, 6

James Mattioli, 6

Grace McDonnell, 7

Anne Marie Murphy, 52

Emilie Parker, 6

Jack Pinto, 6

Noah Pozner, 6

Caroline Previdi, 6

Jessica Rekos, 6

Avielle Richman, 6

Lauren Rousseau, 30

Mary Sherlach, 56

Victoria Soto,27

Benjamin Wheeler, 6

Allison Wyatt, 6

Source: Connecticut State Police



#30 Ruinus

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:45 AM

Relief agencies provide assistance to Newtown families

A day after the massacre in Newtown, Conn., the question "Why?" has been followed by "How can I help?"

International and community organizations have responded by setting up support and services for the victims' families.

To help community kids, Save the Children, the international non-governmental organization for children's rights, which has a U.S. headquarters in Westport, CT, has opened a Child Friendly Space in the Reed Intermediate School in Newtown. Save the Children developed these kind of Child Friendly Spaces after decades spent protecting, counseling and helping to heal children in crises around the globe. Children are offered a chance to play, socialize and begin to recover while their parents get counseling, support and other services. To learn more about such spaces, Save the Children offers a factsheet here.

Donations can be made here.*

Additionally, Isabel Almeida, of the United Way of Western Connecticut, says that the United Way, in partnership with the Newtown Savings Bank, has set up the Sandy Hook School Support Fund, to provide support services to those affected.

Online donations can be made here.*

"We are committed to providing support and resources where and when they become identified and needed," says United Way of Western Connecticut CEO Kim Morgan, in announcing the initiative.

An early responder in the field of local mental-health services is the Newtown Youth and Family Services, a licensed nonprofit mental-health clinic which has stayed open for grief counseling all weekend, between 9 a.m. and 4 p.m.

Donations can be made to Newtown Youth and Family Serives here.*

The Red Cross also has about 50 workers on the ground in Connecticut, many of them mental-health workers. It has opened an emergency grief-counseling center and has provided 50 units of blood to Danbury Hospital, where many of the victims were treated. The Red Cross is also providing food and water to first responders and others. Donation information and details about the Red Cross's efforts in Newtown can be found here.


Moved here from the Adult Topic Board since this is a pretty important.
*Emphasis mine.

#31 G4hardcore

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:52 PM

My little brother David is six. I don't even want to think about how I'd react if something like this happened to him. Those families have my empathy.

#32 potterpuppetpals

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:17 PM

Some people have no respect for life. And then some people are just plain *vulgarity*ed up. Poor kids.

#33 silversurfer092

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:20 PM

I don't know how to preface this quote other than I really, really like it.

"Our feeble mortal minds want to picture God welcoming and comforting all of those innocent children into his loving embrace, while the shooter burns in agony within the flames of hell. And that may in fact be the case, I am not so arrogant as to presume to know God's eternal judgement. But maybe, just maybe, instead, perhaps those innocent children are in heaven embracing and forgiving the man that took their innocence and lives away."

#34 Austo191

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:58 PM

My sister is seven and she just looks so innocent. I can't imagine what sick things would be going through that bastards mind who did all that. It's a real shame.

"She was supposed to be an angel in the play. Now she's an angel in Heaven."

That brought a tear to my eyes.

#35 force_echo

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:22 PM

Map of school shootings across the world, just in case anyone thought this was a worldwide phenomenon.

Posted Image


What is it about America? Is it because the population is crazier on average? I don't think so. Is it because of guns? Maybe, maybe not. People in other places can get guns too, maybe even easier than in America in some cases.

These are obviously only the reported shootings though, so its possible that the data might be skewed by media suppression in some countries or by other factors.

#36 force_echo

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:24 PM

http://m.voanews.com/1564820.html

Let's ban knives! I'm sure that would make everything better.

The difference is that no one got killed, because knives simply don't have the same lethal capacity as guns. You know why the dude used a knife? Because guns are banned in China.

#37 force_echo

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:26 PM

Putting laws in place, requiring people to keep their weapons secure, would help a lot. It wouldn't completely prevent things from this happening, but it would make procuring weapons, more difficult. And that way, discourage some of the potential shooters.

And how in the world could you possibly enforce this law? Random checks to ensure civilians are keeping guns in chests? That's not gonna fly, and its not going to work.

#38 silversurfer092

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:39 PM

It might not work, but it's a step in the right direction. I just want something to get done. Even an NRA supporter in the Senate says it's ridiculous to not ban assault rifles.

#39 Darxeth

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:49 PM

I'm for the right to bear arms, but I think that we should ban assault rifles as well.

#40 force_echo

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:58 PM

Banning just assault rifles is useless. Only 4% of homicides committed using a firearm use any kind of rifle. Do you think if that guy didn't have his rifle he couldn't just use the two handguns he brought with him? Banning only one kind of gun is stupid and pointless.




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