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Edward Cullen vs Broken Tusk Predator


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#81 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:28 PM

You know, just because you got bullied in school and probably received your daily human booster shot from a trick named Jim, doesn't mean you need to take your frustrations out on me, kid.

Lmao :D

#82 RakaiThwei

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:08 PM

Considering your general level of quite frankly, pathetic whining, in this thread, this is pretty much throwing stones from a glass house, let's examine what's been said by you thus far, and compare it to the post Force made.

So basically, what you've posted can be condensed down to, "I think the predators are awesome, and I don't like twillight characters, so it's completely unfair of skadoosh to put them up against each other, he must be doing it out of spite."

Now lets look at what Force posted.

While what Force posted was somewhat rude, it was also fairly accurate, especially considering that what makes a good character is in many regards completely subjective.

On top of that, your overall posting in this thread, has been quite a bit more juvenile, than the singular post he made, which makes your rebuttal, fall somewhere between slightly laughable, and downright hypocritical.


This part of the response is for Kain's post, and the first part of the second half of Metho's post:

Look, my point is that Skadoosh really doesn't know much about the Yautja aside from what he claims to know. I am not certain on how long you have been on ElectricFerret but in the six years I have been here, a bulk of the AvP characters aren't treated with the respect and dignity which I feel people need to start giving them credit for. When you're trying to fight for a group of characters that you know are more than capable of taking down some serious adversaries outside of their respective franchises, and when people still either refuse to give them that credit or just don't understand, it gets frustrating. I don't mind AvP characters losing-- really, I don't because let's face it... no one wins every battle. But I do wish that these characters were treated and given respect a little bit more than be seen as characters (this applies for Xenomorphs, Predators and Human) that were designed to simply lose.

I also think that you're over analyzing things a bit here. Do I think that AvP Characters are awesome? Yes, because I am fan. Whatever you're a fan of, I assume that whatever you're a fan of, you believe that it's awesome right? Do I hate the Twilight characters? Not necessarily, but a lot of people believe that they are badly written characters and something of a joke to the horror genre. I actually find them to be quite funny. This part was more meant for Kain than Methos.

This will be my last post here in this particular thread.

I've underlined the important part of the quote here. And now I have one question for you in response to that: How, exactly, do you know that?

I mean, since you know that the twinkling twat is not that strong, then you must have a source for your information. Some kind of evidence to back it up.

Maybe a case of the twi-vamp visibly struggling with something, that would require less strength than the math(based on the statements from the book, and meyers) say he has?

Regardless of what your evidence/source is, I don't think it's too much to ask you to provide it, so that the rest of us can see it as well. Or, if it's as I think it is, you do not have any evidence whatsoever, that you withdraw your ridiculous statement.


Wouldn't simple physics really be adequate here? I mean I assume something that's 6''2 and maybe, if Jaeger's calculations on Edward Cullen's weight is something to be taken, then Edward would only be about 150-160 lbs. So assuming that Twilight vampires have crystalline muscles and bones, then their strength would be amplified to maybe 14,000 lbs to 60,000 lbs. That's 7 - 30 tons based on Jaeger's calculations.

Do I have a source? No. I can admit that aside from simple physics given to me by Jaeger's numbers. So really, as ridiculous as something like Edward lifting 350 tons is, I just find it hard to believe unless the physics in Meyer's universe are broken. Because with numbers like that, Twilight vampires would be able to go up against some serious powerhouses who are well over class 100+.

But since I do not have a source, I will retract my statement.

3. Most amusing of all, is your comment about how Dachende doesn't have a Plasma-Caster, and how he would at least have a chance to win if he did. This is hilarious, because you're apparently ignoring known Yautja lore.

Even if Dachende had a Plasma Caster, he wouldn't use it. Dachende an honorable Yautja, and when it comes to sentient beings(rather than 'beasts' like the xenomorphs). The Yautja don't use ranged weapons against prey that doesn't have ranged weapons themselves. Considering that Edward doesn't have any weapons at all. Well, to repeat: Dachende wouldn't use the Plasma Caster, even if he had it.

Considering that you've expressed your dislike about people ignoring that aspect of Yautja(most recently, after the Yautja vs. Hulk match, in which the yautja was given an 'anti-gamma plasma caster'). I find it absolutely hilarious, that you go about and do the exact same thing yourself.


There seems to be some misunderstanding here concerning the use of the plasma caster and the ethics in using it. In all of the Yautja lore I have read, there is no mandatory rule of a Yautja using his plasma caster on a prey that doesn't have a fire arm. If anything, the idea of Yautja using their plasma caster on prey without firearms isn't so much of a rule than it is a guideline. And that guideline is really there to make the Hunt more challenging, but really there is no solid rule within any Yautja clan that prevents Blooded and higher ranking warriors from using the plasma caster against prey without fire arms. The only drawback to such a weapon is that it takes away the thrill from a kill, though the act of a Hunter using his plasma caster against prey without firearms isn't dishonorable.

The idea of Yautja not being allowed to use plasma casters against unarmed (prey without firearms) prey seems to extend only to Unblooded warriors as they need to earn the right to use that weapon. So they hunt Xenomorphs with melee weapons to prove that they are worthy of such a weapon-- Scar and his clan were examples of this in AvP.

Concerning Dachande's honor and his attitude towards the plasma based weapons, he's not against using them however on Xenomorph ritual hunts he purposely handicaps himself because as his role as leader, he has to set an example for the newer generation of Hunters. He also believes that anyone could just take a gun and fire at something, and that the only real assets a Hunter needs is his skill, speed, strength and wit. However he does admit that the use of a burner/caster should be something of a last resort. So he isn't entirely against using them. He just thinks newer generations of Hunters tend to over use them and forgot where their true strength lies. And canonically speaking, Dachande has used plasma weapons on Xenomorphs but I'm sure you already knew that.

You comment on how, Edward's telepathy, is one of the major advantages that the twi-vamp has here. You seem to forget, that Yautja don't actually think in english(or any other earth language for that matter), nor is their brain chemistry remotely like that of humans.

While Edward would most likely still be able to read Dachende's mind(though probably with more difficulty than with normal humans, vampires and shapeshifters, due to the different brain chemistry), it wouldn't give him any advantage in a fight whatsoever, since he wouldn't be able to understand anything he 'reads' with his telepathy.


I know that this was more for BigballerJu but this was something everyone here has overlooked.

The Yautja mind is something vastly different from the human mind considering everything that they are. We're talking about upbringing, culture and a lot of things which would go into forging something of a mind. What we know is that they have a more draconic way of thinking (by draconic, I mean very harsh way of thinking) and something maybe even one tracked way of thinking. I mean everything they do revolves around the Hunt and their way of thinking probably is set to that aspect.

The Yautja mind isn't Human. So the thoughts would be reflective of the language. I mean if you take a Hispanic person, like for example my grandmother from Puerto Rico, she's going to be thinking her thoughts in Spanish because that's the only language she's ever really spoken.

Still, Edward is going to know something is watching him.

Part 2 of this post will be continued in the next post..

#83 RakaiThwei

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:41 PM

When debating a match, it doesn't(or at least shouldn't) matter whether you hate(or love) one or both of the characters. Your like(or dislike) does not magically change the capabilities of the characters.


Let's set the record straight here. And I am not going to repeat myself.

I am not "magically changing" the capabilities of the characters. I simply made a calculation and came to an extremely ridiculous number which I simply find very hard to believe. It's extremely hard to swallow for me because while I can admit Twilight vampires are strong, those calculations would suggest that these guys would be able to go toe to toe against someone like Superman, the Hulk or even Goku in terms of physical strength.

It's ridiculous and hard to believe from a physics standpoint.

Stephanie Meyer hasn't given us a definitive number, and I actually tried reaching her (there was a time years ago where she was receiving emails from fans through her brother and fan-site webmaster, Seth) to inquire exactly how strong these vampires are but now reaching her is unlikely. So I worked with the numbers that a Twilight vampire has over a human... I simply multiplied 700 lbs and a 1000 pounds. Hence that ridiculous number.

Jaeger's calculations on the other hand, based on Edward's estimated weight seem more likely. After all, we were given two estimations from the Wikia based on that article... It said they were a thousand times stronger than a human being, but it also said they are able to lift hundred times their own weight. It seems more reasonable for calculations based on weight, would give for a more accurate number.

But if Twilight Vampires are Class 100+... Then from a purely physical over all standpoint... they're well beyond any street level adversary.

If you put Edward in a straight fight against Batman. Then no matter how much we all dislike the twi-vamp, he's still going to rip the bat into little bloody(literally) pieces. The same goes for any other match.


That's funny because in all the six years I've been in the CBUB, people would just straight up say that Batman wins because he's Batman or because he has prep time. Never the less, I know Batman would lose.

But you said it yourself, no matter how much we dislike the Twi-vamp... And I assume you don't like him either, doesn't change the outcome. And it's painful thing to admit. For anyone.

Skadoosh doesn't(from what I've seen) create matches due to any like or dislike of various characters. He creates matches because he thinks that those matches would make for interesting fights.

In this case, he underestimated the Twi-vamp. But that doesn't change the fact, that he created the match, thinking that Dachende had a pretty even chance of winning, and that Edward would simply be "worthy prey"(capability-wise), rather than someone who simply pummels the Yautja into the ground.

If you don't like his matches(or any other match), then don't read them. That way, you don't have to get offended over the match, and the rest of us don't have to listen to your whining over a match you, for whatever reason, don't like. It's a win/win situation. And that goes for everyone.


The reason why I have been ranting and been treating Skadoosh with scorn is because he really doesn't know the capabilities or even limits of certain characters. And he also doesn't really know the personalities or the overall character of the contenders in question. I mean take Dachande, Machiko, V'kleita and other AvP characters from the novels... they're pretty obscure and not many people know about them, and just assume them to be whatever it is they assume them to be. And even the comics really don't even explore the overall character and by extension even some of the capabilities and limits of these characters, which is why I tell people to read the novels.

I will say that Methos is right in the idea that Skadoosh probably underestimated Edward, or over-estimated Dachande.

I don't know which one he falls under but in the case of Dachande... he's still got his limits. Albeit they are moderately high for a Predator, considering he is an Elder. I mean hell, Methos, I even recall you talking to you about how Dachande would compare to Spider-Man in a fight with just his melee weapons and smart disc (it is considered a melee weapon as it can be used for melee) and you said it would be either (I don't remember the numbers you gave me, so these might be wrong) 7/8 chance where as Spider-Man would be 6/8 depending on circumstances. So Dachande is a very physically capable and highly skilled warrior, you've even admitted it numerous times when we discussed the character.

But even as physically capable and insanely skilled, with the experience he has... Dachande is simply over-powered by Edward from the get go. It doesn't even take a fight to be written to see that.

If you don't like his matches(or any other match), then don't read them. That way, you don't have to get offended over the match, and the rest of us don't have to listen to your whining over a match you, for whatever reason, don't like. It's a win/win situation. And that goes for everyone.


Humbling words... I almost want to say that there is even a tone of kindness in those words. Something to keep in mind...

I'm definitely done posting here.

-Rakai'Thwei

#84 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 02:22 PM

320 tons isn't much in comparison to the likes of Superman, Goku and Hulk. Those companies (Marvel and DC at least) use the term "class 100" to signify that the characters' strength is incalculable.

#85 sirmethos

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 05:33 PM

"I am not certain on how long you have been on ElectricFerret but in the six years I have been here, a bulk of the AvP characters aren't treated with the respect and dignity which I feel people need to start giving them credit for."

The exact same thing, have been said about DBZ characters, DC characters, Marvel characters, etc. take your pick. There is always going to be fans who think that their respective favorite characters/universe, doesn't receive the respect that they(the fans) think they should be getting.

Welcome to the internet.


Is there a way to fix this?

Sure, at least partially.

Create a 'respect thread'. Now, in a large percentage of 'respect threads', the fans go overboard, take things out of context to make the characters seem better than they actually are, things that require heavy interpretation, etc.

If you want to create a 'respect thread' that actually does what it's supposed to, then stick to the facts.

For example: Yautja strength - Provide a number of example of their strength, both low-end examples, and high-end examples. Showing the range of their strength.

Note: Stick to specific examples. For example, there is/was a heavily contested 'feat' of lifting a metal door. I definitely wouldn't use that, since there are far too many unknown factors. The hydraulics of the door mechanism, the metal that the door is created of(and the weight/mass of said metal), etc. etc. Stick to simple, specific examples.

The same goes for all their various capabilities. Provide sources(scans, issue numbers for comics, book titles and page numbers, etc.) so that people can check the material for themselves.

Make no mistake, a well-made respect thread requires a lot of work. It's just a matter of whether it's worth the effort or not. :)


"I just find it hard to believe unless the physics in Meyer's universe are broken."

It's a universe that has people becoming immortal, after being injected with a highly flammable venom that essentially 'freezes' their bodies, granting them a number of super-human abilities. A universe where other people are capable of transforming into wolves(with considerably different mass than their human bodies) pretty much in direct violation of the law of conservation of mass. etc, etc,

That the physics in that universe is broken, is a given.


"There seems to be some misunderstanding here concerning the use of the plasma caster and the ethics in using it. In all of the Yautja lore I have read, there is no mandatory rule of a Yautja using his plasma caster on a prey that doesn't have a fire arm. If anything, the idea of Yautja using their plasma caster on prey without firearms isn't so much of a rule than it is a guideline. And that guideline is really there to make the Hunt more challenging, but really there is no solid rule within any Yautja clan that prevents Blooded and higher ranking warriors from using the plasma caster against prey without fire arms. The only drawback to such a weapon is that it takes away the thrill from a kill, though the act of a Hunter using his plasma caster against prey without firearms isn't dishonorable."

No, no misunderstanding. I'm well aware that it's not a rule, and if you actually read my post, you'll find that I never claimed that it is.

The 'dishonor' in using ranged weapons, against prey that doesn't use it themselves. Comes from exactly what you said.

If a Yautja does that, then A. he/it is lazy, preferring a quick kill over the thrill of the hunt. B. He/it is inexperienced, lacking in skill, or over-confident, since he/it has apparently either underestimated their prey, or simply chosen to take on prey that is out of their skill-range. Or C.

Dachende is non of the above. Rather, he is pretty much the pinnacle of Yautja hunters. Actively restricting himself in many cases, to make the hunt more challenging, and heighten the thrill of the hunt. And to prove himself, to himself.

You've essentially underlined, my point. Explaining exactly why Dachende would not use the Plasma Caster(except possibly when he is already beaten, as a last resort).


"The Yautja mind isn't Human. So the thoughts would be reflective of the language. I mean if you take a Hispanic person, like for example my grandmother from Puerto Rico, she's going to be thinking her thoughts in Spanish because that's the only language she's ever really spoken."

This is exactly, only with different words, what I was saying.


"Jaeger's calculations on the other hand, based on Edward's estimated weight seem more likely. After all, we were given two estimations from the Wikia based on that article... It said they were a thousand times stronger than a human being, but it also said they are able to lift hundred times their own weight. It seems more reasonable for calculations based on weight, would give for a more accurate number."

I already did all those calculations, and explained that their strength was somewhere between the two numbers. With the latter number(thousands of times stronger than any human), being the maximum, and pointed out that their actual feat(singular), and another statement about their strength, shows that they are definitely above the number given by calculations made on the former statement(lifting hundreds of times their weight).

I even think, if I'm not completely mistaken, that people linked to my post with those calculations, somewhere earlier in this thread.


"But if Twilight Vampires are Class 100+... Then from a purely physical over all standpoint... they're well beyond any street level adversary."

Yes, they are. I've been saying that since matches created shortly after the first film was released.


"That's funny because in all the six years I've been in the CBUB, people would just straight up say that Batman wins because he's Batman or because he has prep time."

Aye, people do that on Comicvine and other similar sites as well. People are idiots who are, apparently, incapable of setting aside their bias, and rationally debating a match. Yet another thing I've been saying for ages -.-


"But you said it yourself, no matter how much we dislike the Twi-vamp... And I assume you don't like him either, doesn't change the outcome. And it's painful thing to admit. For anyone."

No, no it's not. Only for those that can't seem to set aside their bias.

There has been a few matches where I've been in the situation of being incapable of setting aside my bias(one Dune match in particular), and in those cases, I've avoided commenting on the outcome of the match, or in one case(where I was directly asked to comment), made it clear that I was biased, and that my comments should be taken with a grain of salt.

I don't like the Twilight characters, but I have no problem admitting their capabilities. Nor do I have a problem with them winning against characters with lesser capabilities, regardless of whether it's a Yautja(most of whom I'm relatively indifferent towards), or Leto Atreides II(probably my all-time favorite fictional character).



"Humbling words... I almost want to say that there is even a tone of kindness in those words. Something to keep in mind..."

The last time I said those exact words, was to Corvette, shortly after he joined EF. I believe it was due to him whining in a number of VCM's matches. Where he kept going into those matches, already knowing what the matches were going to be like, and whining about how VCM was misusing the characters.

Again, welcome to the internet. People have different opinions. People are going to hate you for no reason whatsoever. People are going to shit all over the majority of the things you like. These are all things that you, one way or another, accept when you go online and join a public online community.

I spend a lot of time on creationist/evolutionist forums, where I'm, several times a day, called every insulting thing known to man. Welcome to the internet. Either you sink to their level, in which case they've already won. Or you decide to be the better, more mature, person, and take the high-road. In which case, you've already won.

Debating and discussing thing online, is brilliant. An exchange of ideas and opinions that keeps the mind active and agile. But as soon as insults start being exchanged(i.e. both sides have fired at least one). Then it's no longer debating, or discussing, online. Then it's fighting online. In which case, we are back to that old, and very true, saying. "Fighting on the internet, is like participating in the special olympics. No matter who wins, they're all retarded."




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