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Match 12858 Darth Vader vs. Shao Kahn


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#21 Square Pickle

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:58 AM

Vader is what... 40-45 years old in the Star Warz movies? Kahn is thousands of years old. He would know more about his powers and fighting style than Vader would about the force.

#22 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:00 AM

The Force is technically a form of Magic in the Star Wars universe, there's no other explanation for it's function/capability.

And if we go by the EU, the mechanical parts of Vader do limit him but it's not as if they prohibit him from utilizing the full brunt of his Force Powers - so yes, contrary to popular thought, he would have many options in the Force power department. Only thing I think he can't do is Force Lightning since that would short circuit his mechanical parts, it being raw electricity channeled through his body.

#23 bigballerju

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:12 AM

Except for the fact Kahn can destroy worlds with his powers and at 100% wipe the floor with any god on Raiden's level. Even the Elder Gods fear Kahn at 100%.

We can't go guessing Vader has other powers in the force if he hasn't shown it yet. I am not disagreeing with you now but I don't want to start guessing Vader has other abilities he can use. In the expanded Universe he shows very few other abilities with the force. While yes we may see Vader is extremely powerful with the force.We don't see much other abilities from him. I have only seen Vader use force lightening once and that was most recently in only one issue in the latest comic series starring Vader here. This writer must not have known his history to have Vader do this.

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#24 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:28 AM

Well word of god, i.e. George Lucas has stated the reason why he doesn't use Force Lightning is that it would short circuit his mechanical parts.

I'm not debating for either Kahn or Vader, keep in mind, just clearing something up on Vader's end.

And it's not that I'm speculating on his Force capabilities, I'm saying that he's not as limited as you think just because he can't use the Force Lightning. -.- I've seen him catch a repulsor vehicle using Force Speed in the EU, he can manipulate things across galactic distances (I think it was as he choked someone via video screen), crush Durasteel with Force Crush, which implies his Force Push and Pull and telekinesis is inherently powerful. Some people have guessed that in the scene where he captures Han with Lando helping, he used Force Absorption (Though others have speculated it being the indestructible glove later introduced in the EU), etc.

Again, to safely clarify, I'm just showing he's not as limited as you are making him out to be.

#25 Square Pickle

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:39 PM

Well word of god, i.e. George Lucas has stated the reason why he doesn't use Force Lightning is that it would short circuit his mechanical parts.

I'm not debating for either Kahn or Vader, keep in mind, just clearing something up on Vader's end.

And it's not that I'm speculating on his Force capabilities, I'm saying that he's not as limited as you think just because he can't use the Force Lightning. -.- I've seen him catch a repulsor vehicle using Force Speed in the EU, he can manipulate things across galactic distances (I think it was as he choked someone via video screen), crush Durasteel with Force Crush, which implies his Force Push and Pull and telekinesis is inherently powerful. Some people have guessed that in the scene where he captures Han with Lando helping, he used Force Absorption (Though others have speculated it being the indestructible glove later introduced in the EU), etc.

Again, to safely clarify, I'm just showing he's not as limited as you are making him out to be.

I never implied that Vader was limited, I was implying that Shao Kahn is not a inanimate object that can be man handled via force powers at Vader's leisure. All of Vader's big feats were shown against normal human, inanimate objects, and things of a lesser nature. Even when he faces other jedi, Vader doesnt tend to do so well. Its almost like he gets ahead of himself and sloppy. He only beat a 60+ year old Obi-wan because Obi-wan allowed him to, and the only impressive feat against Luke was cutting off his hand (Luke being a rookie mind you) but then he was later defeated by his son. In his robotic state, Vader struggles against other jedi in combat. The only people he bullies around are weak minded humans and inanimate objects that obviously cant fight back. Shoa Kahn is a whole different story. This man bullies Elder gods. He is the destroyer of realms. I would even dare to say that Kahn is much more powerful than jedi-level (who again Vader tends to struggle with). Hell Kahn is the EMPEROR... Vader served a man with the same title, who was by far weaker than Shao Kahn. All logic says that Kahn make short work of Darth Vader and makes Emperor Palpatine bow to his power. Im guessing Palpatine would have been smart enough to not challenge Kahn, but work with him.

#26 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 05:39 PM

And you show that you didn't really read my post - I'm not saying he'd beat Kahn, and that was directed at BigBallerJu.

All I have to say is - his Force Crush would most likely injure Kahn - an energy barrier will do nothing to prevent it and it would bypass through - he could target Organs. You're downplaying Vader's power just a bit. Again I'm not saying he wins or anything, I'm making clear what exactly is his capability.

And Vader actually crushes Jedi in the EU - he's that powerful.

#27 bigballerju

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:26 PM

Yeah but Square may be trying to say Vader has never shown he can force choke or crush someone as powerful as Shao Kahn. Just to help clarify what he was trying to say. Vader does that against regular humans. Kahn is anything but a regular human.

Edit: I know Vader is more powerful then what is shown in the films. That's why I showed him using force lightening in those two scans. I am just saying its not enough to defeat someone like Kahn.

#28 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:36 PM

...You are consistently, constantly assuming that I'm implying that the majority of his powers will be enough to injure Shao Kahn.

Please stop making the assumptions and take my posts at face value. I have never said he'd be able to defeat Shao Kahn - I have only said you are underplaying him, and you have - i.e. his Force Crush.

His Force Crush might be powerful enough if he attacks vital organs - he has crushed durasteel with it in the past, so there is that possibility. You know that Durasteel is an incredibly durable material that can withstand lightsaber belows and takes great power to even crush it with the Force - a tremendous feat. It's ratherfrankly stupid to assume that Vader is incapable of injuring him just simply because Shao Kahn's a "Godlike" entity. Gods have been defeated by mortals in MK. -.-

Force Lightning... it's nothing like Raiden, obviously.

I sincerely hope I am better understood despite having said the same thing several times now.

#29 Square Pickle

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:38 PM

And you show that you didn't really read my post - I'm not saying he'd beat Kahn, and that was directed at BigBallerJu.

All I have to say is - his Force Crush would most likely injure Kahn - an energy barrier will do nothing to prevent it and it would bypass through - he could target Organs. You're downplaying Vader's power just a bit. Again I'm not saying he wins or anything, I'm making clear what exactly is his capability.

And Vader actually crushes Jedi in the EU - he's that powerful.

I know it was intended for Baller, and I read the post. Im just saying that Vader has never faced anything the level of Kahn. Kahn has beaten Gods like Raiden before. Vader almost died taking on the Emperor and Luke Skywalker. Im not trying to down play Vader, Im just saying that he is not going to be much of a challenge for Kahn. He's just never displayed the level of power needed to bring down a god killer. Im not sure that any jedi has. Force crush injure Kahn? Maybe, but not enough to stop him... I mean if Kahn were stopped as easily as most CBUBers think, Sub-Zero would simply freeze him and claim Outworld as his own. My point is, just because one posses the power to injure Kahn, doesnt mean they will be able to actually do it. Theres a reason Sub-Zero never froze him, and the Elder gods didnt wipe him away from existence. It wouldnt work... I dont believe he will take the full blunt of Vaders force crush neither. Thats if it even works here. Most powers dont work on Kahn, and when they do, they dont work very well.... I know youre not arguing for either side, I just wanted to adress the topics you brought up.

#30 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:40 PM

And I'm saying you're still not getting it despite claiming that - you're posing your post as if I don't get it myself. -.-

My opinion? Shao Kahn wins, yes. My opinion further? He's definitely capable of injuring Shao Kahn, just not enough to win.

#31 skadoosh

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:41 PM

Actually no Vader doesn't have many ways to kill Kahn with the force because of being more machine then man. Kahn could easily kill Vader from a distance.


Bullshine.

Vader can use the Force to do almost anything he wishes, he's a master of the Dark Side, a Sith lord, the only limit he has is not being able to use Force Lightening. Vader has many wayss to kill Kahn. I'm sure Kahn has just as many ways to kill Vader, but Vader is not limited nearly enough by his machine parts. The Force is incredibly versitile.

#32 G4hardcore

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:46 PM

I get the feeling Square has only ever seen the movies, and nothing of the EU. Seems that way, at any rate.

#33 skadoosh

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:28 PM

I concur.

#34 G4hardcore

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 03:21 AM

Force Crush to the eyeballs. Then what? Unless Kahn has "balls" of steel.

#35 bigballerju

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 10:03 AM

Bullshine.

Vader can use the Force to do almost anything he wishes, he's a master of the Dark Side, a Sith lord, the only limit he has is not being able to use Force Lightening. Vader has many wayss to kill Kahn. I'm sure Kahn has just as many ways to kill Vader, but Vader is not limited nearly enough by his machine parts. The Force is incredibly versitile.

Bullshine.

Vader can use the Force to do almost anything he wishes, he's a master of the Dark Side, a Sith lord, the only limit he has is not being able to use Force Lightening. Vader has many wayss to kill Kahn. I'm sure Kahn has just as many ways to kill Vader, but Vader is not limited nearly enough by his machine parts. The Force is incredibly versitile.


Sigh...

As powerful as Darth Vader is in the force like what's been said on here he can't use the force to do almost anything he wishes. That's all.

#36 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 10:06 AM

Force Crush to the eyeballs. Then what? Unless Kahn has "balls" of steel.

*durasteel

:P

#37 comic_book_fan

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 10:25 AM

kahn's could trap vader in another demention or just rip him in half if the elder gods are not holding him back .

#38 bigballerju

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 10:42 AM

Edit

#39 skadoosh

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 03:14 PM

As powerful as Darth Vader is in the force like what's been said on here he can't use the force to do almost anything he wishes. That's all.


Sure he can. The Force is, essentially, nigh-unlimited telekinesis, and Vader is a master of it. Vader could use the Force to crush Kahn into a pancake, or tear him to pieces, or throw him into space, or slice his arteries, or snap his spine, etc, etc... I'm sure Kahn could survive some of those, or at least defend against them, seeing as he's all magically powerful and whatnot, but Vader can definitely defend himself against a lot of what Kahn can throw at him, too. They are quite even. But the Force is extremely versatile.

kahn's could trap vader in another demention or just rip him in half if the elder gods are not holding him back .


I gotta say, i don't know how Vader would deal with being sent to another dimension, if Kahn really can do that, but he can certaintly prevent himself being torn in twain, and he can definitely do the same to Kahn.

#40 bigballerju

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 03:58 PM

Oh seriously when has Vader shown he can throw somebody into space using the force from the planet. Like Jaeger said Vader can injury Kahn but not enough to win.




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