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Match 12852 Superman vs. The Avengers


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#81 Guest_Odin_*

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 05:16 PM

to everyone saying i gave this to supes that is complete bull cuz if i added thor or hulk to the avengers than everyone would be saying wow avengers overkill also superman is not so powerful that he could win this in seconds if he is even with hulk then thing can keep up with him for a bit also captain america is the best hand to hand fighter in the entire comic book universe so give the avengers the respect they deserve

#82 nrdman

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 05:18 PM

But Superman goes SO much faster.

#83 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 05:21 PM

You seem to be ignoring the fact that in comic books, anyone can beat anyone, as I've stated twice now, which is why Wolverine was capable of taking out a fully hydrated Namor, just to give an example. As long as their feats far outshine Namor's, they will always be stronger than him.

Believe what you want, though. There's clearly no point in continuing this debate.


They will, yes, because the writers can make them as strong as they need to be to defeat whoever. And no, that's incorrect. Judging only by feats, like you said would make Spidey a class 100 FTL individual. I also go by stated capabilities by the company of the character. And a debate implies both sides can win, which yours can't, as its flawed. But regardless, you are right, there's no point trying to convince you.

Anyways, onto the idea of Cap being the best h2h combatant...Odin, what the hell are you talking about?

#84 Peypeypeypey

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 05:32 PM

Even if Cap is the best hand to hand fighter in the universe, that means nothing when your opponent is strong enough to literally move the planet you're standing on and fast enough to kill you before you can even think about fighting him

#85 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 05:52 PM

See, it's hard to let go of a debate when you get all condescending. Neither of our arguments are flawed, we just have differing opinions.

In my opinion: Namor's not FTL, he can't lift a planet, he can't tank punches from the Hulk... He doesn't compare to Superman in any way, shape or form. If you actually go by "stated capabilities", as you claim to, it should be obvious that Supes is vastly superior anyway. Namor isn't fast enough to keep up with him. And Spidey doesn't have any class 100+ feats, though he does have a few that put him considerably beyond the 10 ton baseline Marvel have him set at.

Beating the Hulk doesn't mean he can beat Superman or Thor, because they'd both take out the Hulk easily if they didn't hold back. Whenever Namor's fought Thor, Thor's been holding back. In the Invaders scan I posted earlier, Thor one-shotted Namor.

Feats actually help us determine the limits of a character's strength/speed/etc - battles are just a gimmick used to attract sales. Captain America has been shown taking out the Rhino with a kick, but he should have broken his foot. The majority of character battles are written with the goal of keeping fans happy in mind; in a fight between Namor and Thor, for example, the writers need to make sure the end result leaves both the Namor fans and the Thor fans happy, so they make it seem like a relatively even fight. In the CBUB such restrictions are removed, and we go purely by the capabilities of the character - in this case, Namor is class 100, superhumanly fast to an unknown extent, and durable enough to withstand shots from the Hulk. Thor is class 1000000+, can move at and react to faster than light speeds, and can easily trade blows with the likes of Gladiator, Silver Surfer and Hulk.

I'm tired now... I need to sleep.

#86 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:04 PM

But we know Thor would fall to the Bat Kick.

#87 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:05 PM

See, it's hard to let go of a debate when you get all condescending. Neither of our arguments are flawed, we just have differing opinions.

Meh, I was just being an ass on purpose.

In my opinion: Namor's not FTL, he can't lift a planet, he can't tank punches from the Hulk... He doesn't compare to Superman in any way, shape or form. If you actually go by "stated capabilities", as you claim to, it should be obvious that Supes is vastly superior anyway. Namor isn't fast enough to keep up with him. And Spidey doesn't have any class 100+ feats, though he does have a few that put him considerably beyond the 10 ton baseline Marvel have him set at.

Point conceded on not being FTL and not lifting planets. However, he has shown the ability to tank Hulk punches. Well maybe not tank as Nefaria does Mjolnir, but he can take the blow and dish out his own. I've never said Supes isn't, but to say that Thor is a threat while Namor isn't is an underestimation of him, IMO.

Beating the Hulk doesn't mean he can beat Superman or Thor, because they'd both take out the Hulk easily if they didn't hold back. Whenever Namor's fought Thor, Thor's been holding back. In the Invaders scan I posted earlier, Thor one-shotted Namor.

Debatable, but it shows he's capable. If Thor holds back all the time with Namor, who's to say Namor isn't holding back either? If its never explicitly stated in that particular battle, it's just conjecture. Yes in general they hold back, but sometimes the opponent is just that capable. Yes, he one shotted him and yet another time he didn't. Depends on the writer.

Feats actually help us determine the limits of a character's strength/speed/etc - battles are just a gimmick used to attract sales. Captain America has been shown taking out the Rhino with a kick, but he should have broken his foot. The majority of character battles are written with the goal of keeping fans happy in mind; in a fight between Namor and Thor, for example, the writers need to make sure the end result leaves both the Namor fans and the Thor fans happy, so they make it seem like a relatively even fight. In the CBUB such restrictions are removed, and we go purely by the capabilities of the character - in this case, Namor is class 100, superhumanly fast to an unknown extent, and durable enough to withstand shots from the Hulk. Thor is class 1000000+, can move at and react to faster than light speeds, and can easily trade blows with the likes of Gladiator, Silver Surfer and Hulk.

That unknown extent must be pretty high then, given he can trade blows with Thor, Rulk and others on the same level.

I'm tired now... I need to sleep.

Rest young padawan, you've earned it.


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#88 Djgambrell

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:11 PM

But we know Thor would fall to the Bat Kick.

Honest question. How long has it been since you were a serious debater?

#89 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:12 PM

A few days.

#90 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:12 PM

The Batkick is no match for the roundhouse kick of Chuck Norris.

#91 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:13 PM

By that logic, Bruce Lee owns DC.

#92 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:15 PM

He does. With an eraser.

#93 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:17 PM

He doesn't need a erase.

He just punches so hard the ink vanishes from the print.

#94 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 06:18 PM

Or that.

#95 force_echo

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:47 PM

The same Namor who kicked Tony's ass on more than one occasion?

http://media.photobu...tnai-01-019.jpg

http://25.media.tumb...72395o1_500.jpg

http://img395.images...orfeat594gj.gif

http://media.comicvi...90701_super.jpg

Lol, out of context for the win? Yeah, let's just show one panel of Namor punching Tony and call that a win for Namor. In that first scan, Iron Man won that fight, despite the fact that he was fighting Namor underwater, and his armor wasn't working properly, and Namor wrested the helmet away from Tony. That last fight? Tony beat him. In context, Tony is using one of his first armors, while he is HALF BRAIN DEAD, and was still able to school Namor.

Extremis Iron Man would wipe the deck with Namor, out of water or in.

#96 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:52 PM

I know. I'm a master of that just like AvP. Eh, yeah. I guess we were just shouting rabbit season, duck season to each other.

In the first one, Tony didn't win. Strange intervened.

And fair enough.

#97 force_echo

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:57 PM

In the first one, Tony didn't win. Strange intervened.

Are you sure? That scan is from Demon in the Bottle isn't it? I'm pretty sure that even though Namor had him in a headlock underwater, Tony was able to bring the fight back on land, and was beating Namor. I do remember Strange being there though. Eh, my memory of that arc is pretty hazy anyway, so it might just be my bias speaking on that one.

#98 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:59 PM

Nah, I'm pretty sure it was from The Road to Civil War, when the Illuminati gathered to discuss the SHRA...I'd have to check to make sure.

#99 force_echo

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:08 PM

Ah, well Stark beat Namor in Demon in a Bottle, even though his armor was failing and he was in danger of drowning. Namor ripped off Stark's helmet in that one too, so that's why I mistook the two.

#100 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:12 PM

Alright, understood.




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