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Match 12799 Black Panther vs. Elder Predator


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#21 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:35 AM

Does he? I was going by the very last statement - I figured he was without them in the second scenario.

This changes little though - he's limited in projectile ammo whereas the Predator can reuse his Smart Disc and his Plasma Caster can run for a very long periods of time.

And seeing as the Predator certainly has studied T'Challa, it's going to expect these.

#22 RakaiThwei

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:41 AM

Black Panther totally wins because he made Silver Surfer tap out.


Is that sarcasm I'm detecting? :lol:

The High Grade Dlex in the Elder's Weapons would cut through it, most likely.

And it wouldn't be able to stop the Smart Disc or the Plasma Caster.


I am genuinely and actually surprised to hear that High Grade Dlex would be able to cut through Vibranium. I mean general consensus here on the CBUB and ElectricFerret as a whole is that it's unanimously agreed that not a lot of things can cut through Vibranium, I am not sure if even Adamantium can cut through it but if it can-- what's to stop high grade or even Plasma grade Dlex from cutting through it?

This is something I am intrigued and surprised to hear from you, Jaeger.

Though I do agree that the Smart Disc because of the fact that the weapon generates a molecular disruption field around the weapon, enabling it to cut through many metals and solid objects. The plasma caster, well... I am not sure what Vibranium's melting point is but if plasma can burn through it, Panther's in trouble. A lot of trouble.

If the Yautja decides to start throwing punches and kicks, it's not going to amount to much


Well that's because of the Vibranium armor. I mean if we take the feats from Concrete Jungle to what a Yautja can achieve at full potential into consideration-- then T'challa definitely needed the armor here. I mean if he wasn't wearing that armor, well... I'm pretty sure this is what would happen.

Posted Image

Except one kid is four years older, has a bunch of grenades, and an uzi. Kind of.


Actually, considering my knowledge of Yautja and this is me taking Jaeger's statements into account.. That analogy might not even be close .This would be more like a martial artist in his late twenties who has a master ranking in whatever martial art he studied and has been training for years, going up against a fighter who is in his mid teens and only perhaps has a first dan ranking.

In other words.. It ain't pretty.

Expect another post guys...

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#23 G4hardcore

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:51 AM

You dare question my analogy? Okay, imagine one kid being twelve, the other 8. I only said that because, naturally, a twelve year old child is particularly stronger than an 8 year old, and probably tougher and bigger. The uzi is being compared to an effective long range weapon, which EP has, and the grenades represent overkill in the form of plasma weaponry.

#24 RakaiThwei

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:12 PM

I only said that because, naturally, a twelve year old child is particularly stronger than an 8 year old, and probably tougher and bigger.


The Yautja being bigger, yes. The Yautja being stronger... by a wide margain, yes.

Thing is, I am actually accounting the Expanded Universe and this includes Predator Concrete Jungle. I know that there was a debate that Skirmisher started some two years ago (and I know people still look at that thread) about the strength of Yautja, but that's been settled and either way you look at it-- we can confirm that older Yautja can perhaps push 10 tens to perhaps a bit farther. Either way, that potential for Yautja to reach is in fact there. What is under disagreement is how exactly Yautja can get that strong, but either way-- they can push past ten tons give or take certain conditions met.

A lot of people for whatever reason, tend to avoid mentioning Predator: Concrete Jungle and the feats seen in that particular storyline. But the thing is, the storyline and narration actually backs up on Scarface Predator's strength. But a lot of people just don't seem to like the idea of a Yautja doing such feats, and this is my personal opinion and take on it-- and I could be wrong, probably definitely am in the wrong when saying this but I think people don't like the idea of Yautja being able to compete with superheroes and probably winning. Of course, Predator: Concete Jungle is also a game and people tend to throw out a lot of stuff about games but when the storyline back's the character's abilities, it's not so easy to dismiss when it's tied in with the storyline's own canon.

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#25 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:46 PM

Vibranium isn't a particularly strong metal in and of itself - it's its properties that make it so potent, in that it absorbs energy. This means that very few things can pierce it, because the metal absorbs the kinetic energy generated by the attack and renders it useless.

However, T'Challa's armor isn't pure Vibranium, it's a mesh of vibranium and fiber, which allows greater flexibility. As such, it isn't as potent as the real thing, and it's vulnerable to being slashed and cut along the costume's seams. Now, if you were to try to cut through something like Captain America's shield, even with high-grade Dlex, you wouldn't even be able to scratch it.

#26 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:10 PM

There's a difference between just a hunk of Vibranium and the Vibranium Mesh, which AvP outlined. Which you didn't know, which is understandable.

Typically a block of Vibranium would be able to absorb a plasma caster shot as well but since this is the mesh version, highly unlikely.

#27 skadoosh

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:10 PM

All the necessary points have been made. Personally, i think that if the Yautja didn't have the Plasma Caster then it would be a definite, but eventual and bloody hard-earned, win for Panther, but seeing as the Yautja has that one, big advantage, he might win, or at least injure Panther enough that even if he does lose Panther would die soon afterwards.

#28 RakaiThwei

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:15 PM

All the necessary points have been made. Personally, i think that if the Yautja didn't have the Plasma Caster then it would be a definite, but eventual and bloody hard-earned, win for Panther, but seeing as the Yautja has that one, big advantage, he might win, or at least injure Panther enough that even if he does lose Panther would die soon afterwards.


XLegacyX just confirmed that here we have a Yautja who not only knows Jehdin, but also Ninjutsu... A Yautja Elder with the experience, the physical strength, durability, speed, armor and weapons-- knowing two martial arts styles. If this Yautja knows how to use his chi to imbue his strikes, then this is even more brutal than I originally thought.

I think you're giving Panther a little too much credit if he somehow manages to win, which is highly unlikely at this point.

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#29 force_echo

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:12 PM

It doesn't matter if the Predator knows those martial arts, Black Pather is still going to be more skilled by a large margin. You're talking about someone who's on Iron Fist/Cap/Daredevil/Wolverine level of fighting skill, i.e, the best in the Marvel Universe.

#30 RakaiThwei

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:16 PM

It doesn't matter if the Predator knows those martial arts, Black Pather is still going to be more skilled by a large margin. You're talking about someone who's on Iron Fist/Cap/Daredevil/Wolverine level of fighting skill, i.e, the best in the Marvel Universe.


That doesn't change the fact that we have a Predator here who physically outclasses T'challa by a wide margain, not to mention has been observing him for quite sometime now, which could perhaps count as preparation time-- meaning already this Elder knows what T'challa is capable of and might know what he's going to do. A lot of people have mentioned that this was something that works in favor of this Elder here.

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#31 force_echo

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:16 PM

Did I say anything about any of that? Or about the outcome of the match for that matter?

#32 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:16 PM

The experience matters but Force is right, Panther is more skilled...

#33 RakaiThwei

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:20 PM

The experience matters but Force is right, Panther is more skilled...


I wasn't questioning that.

However I am saying either way, that doesn't change what everyone, including yourself has said so far concerning where the outcome of this match might go.

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#34 force_echo

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:21 PM

Also, while the Elder has been alive longer, and probably has more raw time fighting, Black Panther's experience is probably of a higher quality, i.e, he fights threats more dangerous than what the Predator's used to facing on a daily basis. Also, if he portions his projectiles carefully to take out weapons instead of going for a kill shot, you have a lot more even fight. A spike through the plasma gun, disabled. And he's on his home turf. Knowing BP, there's probably machine gun turrets in the trees or something like that.

I say the Smart Disks create the main problem for BP.

#35 RakaiThwei

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:30 PM

Also, while the Elder has been alive longer, and probably has more raw time fighting, Black Panther's experience is probably of a higher quality, i.e, he fights threats more dangerous than what the Predator's used to facing on a daily basis.


Considering that this is perhaps a fan character created by XLegacyX, it's actually quite hard to say what exactly this Elder has fought but it is confirmed that this is an Elder who has hunted numerous humans and even learned ninjutsu from observing them. At this point, that is all I can really say so if XLegacyX wants to say more exactly on what this Elder has hunted, that's his descretion and his alone. However I am more than certain that this Elder has hunted his share of Xenomorphs as well, other than that-- ask XLegacyX.

Also, if he portions his projectiles carefully to take out weapons instead of going for a kill shot, you have a lot more even fight. A spike through the plasma gun, disabled. And he's on his home turf. Knowing BP, there's probably machine gun turrets in the trees or something like that.


There is no question that the shoulder plasma caster can be disabled like that, however it's not exactly a delicate piece of equipment as in Alien vs Predator, Charles Bishop Weyland dropped one of the casters and it really sustained no damage during his rush away from an emergency from what I recall. But if the caster is damaged when in use, then yes it can be disabled.

As for the machine gun turrets-- I would think that XLegacyX would've made mention of that in the details over the equipment. So far he hasn't made mention that there are traps or suprises, and concerning the set up-- this is a straight up fight. Neither side is running away here, or luring another to a trap.

I say the Smart Disks create the main problem for BP.


I agree there. Also, we have to consider what model it could possible be. I mean the Standard Issue smart disc is nasty in itself, but the Nanovibronic Upgraded ones are insanely powerful as far as cutting force goes. Their molecular disruption field is amplified and in some cases, some happen to carry saws in order to liquify the innards of their prey. Either way, a smart disc is a major, major problem. It can also be used as a melee weapon too.

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#36 skadoosh

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:05 PM

I think you're giving Panther a little too much credit


No, i'm not, at all. I stated above that i think if Panther does win then it would be hard-earned, and he might even die from the injuries systained afterwards.

The experience matters but Force is right, Panther is more skilled...


The above is very true, and what's below are just good points.

It doesn't matter if the Predator knows those martial arts, Black Pather is still going to be more skilled by a large margin. You're talking about someone who's on Iron Fist/Cap/Daredevil/Wolverine level of fighting skill, i.e, the best in the Marvel Universe.


Also, while the Elder has been alive longer, and probably has more raw time fighting, Black Panther's experience is probably of a higher quality, i.e, he fights threats more dangerous than what the Predator's used to facing on a daily basis. Also, if he portions his projectiles carefully to take out weapons instead of going for a kill shot, you have a lot more even fight. A spike through the plasma gun, disabled. And he's on his home turf. Knowing BP, there's probably machine gun turrets in the trees or something like that.

I say the Smart Disks create the main problem for BP.



#37 xLEGACYx

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:07 PM

If you dont mind me asking, what do you think of the story so far?

#38 RakaiThwei

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:02 PM

If you dont mind me asking, what do you think of the story so far?


As a writer you've got your cut out for you. But it's something of a start.

Storywise, I am not too particularly fond of storylines where Yautja directly hunt Superheroes, especially popular ones of the Marvel and DC universe, at least not without having fought other characters who have some form of superpower or skill anyway to give them that experience to better deal with Superheroes. While Jaeger has pointed out that there have been some cases of these superheroes from both respective universes losing to outside characters, usually as far as the votes go-- really don't turn out so well for the other guys who aren't Marvel or DC. But of course, this is perhaps my bias talking because I am not really particularly fond of superheroes. I mean if the outcome were not determined by the votes, and perhaps more of the debating-- you'd have something better on your hands.

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#39 force_echo

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:47 PM

What a blatantly shallow reason to dislike a story.

#40 RakaiThwei

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:20 PM

What a blatantly shallow reason to dislike a story.


On the contrary. I like storylines where superheroes are actually hunted down and maybe even killed. I have no problem with that, but it's the direction and the way it's handled that I am critical of, that said I wasn't even knocking down Legacy's attempt here. Far from that, I just think he could've done it differently rather than going straight for the major league superheroes (i.e. Marvel and DC heroes). Hence why I said:

Storywise, I am not too particularly fond of storylines where Yautja directly hunt Superheroes, especially popular ones of the Marvel and DC universe, at least not without having fought other characters who have some form of superpower or skill anyway to give them that experience to better deal with Superheroes.


What I mean was that, there could've been a direction to approach handling this differently. Legacy could've written the match up where this Elder Predator was hunting characters who are powered in someway-- they don't have to be superheroes to be superpowered. I mean some characters could've been either cyborgs, wizards, genetically altered specimens, supernatural beings-- etc, etc before, for a lack of a better term of the word, working for the main course-- superheroes.

In short, taking small steps to better prepare a character, any character in dealing with certain adversaries through experiences in an arc. It doesn't have to be a Predator in any arc, it could be a Ninja Turtle, Street Fighter, or whatever.

I never did say that I never liked this storyline, I just simply shared on how it could've been perhaps handled a bit better.

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