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The Perfect Team: the Battle 4


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Poll: Team Skirmisher vs. Team Nova (9 member(s) have cast votes)

Who wins?

  1. Team Skirmisher (6 votes [66.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 66.67%

  2. Team Nova (3 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

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#21 Skirmisher

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:50 PM

Hmm...i'm doing pretty good...its tied.(Though to be honest, I kinda just used all powerhouses)

My ideal team would be far different...

Yes, you have no Tactician or Strategist, as well as no clear Leader...

I would say that yes, your team is powerful, though I could also see them being out maneuvered, which is why I have Zhuge Liang. Thanks to Dynasty Warriors he's quite strong, in both strength and Magic, though not as strong as Captain Marvel (Shazam), I could certainly see him easily out wit him.




So after the initial bouts, going by popular opinion it would still be Vegito, TEOM, and Dr. Strange vs Dr. Strange, Nova, Gladiator, and Shazam

So going by the same order of the list

Vegito vs Strange
If he really wanted to win, Vegito could and would against Strange, he's shown the ability to punch through extremely strong shields before, and with his DBZ fighting reflexes he could utterly blitz Strange before any Big magic could be cast.


TEOM vs Nova
I don't know too much about Nova, though the EOM should have many ways of dealing with him.


Strange vs Gladiator
Tentacle *insensitivity*? That's enough to shake anyone's confidences...


with Shazam sitting out this round


Bumping the list further

Vegito vs Shazam
Do I really have to say it?

[End]

Oh hell, let's say that Glads won against Strange
Vegito vs Gladiator
Same outcome as all his other fights

TEOM vs Shazam
*insensitivity*...

[Fin]

#22 treacherous

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:09 PM

Good debating causes ties.

#23 Skirmisher

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:16 PM

Hold up.

First of all, Peter's time manipulation isn't absolute. I remember seeing Hiro fight this superfast chick. The superfast gal moved at regular speed when Hiro tried to stop time. And she wasn't even moving fast to begin with. In fact, even when time was normal, she was far below the speed of sound. I'd put her at 50 miles, tops.

That was Daphne who has shown the ability to cross the world in very little time. As well, it was also a side benefit of here "Speed Force" as she was only able to "Catch up" to the moment. Lastly, Hiro only slowed time down drastically, not completely stop it. Other times that Time Stop have been used has completely stopped time.


Second, Dr. Strange has shown that he has vast powers over time and space. What's to stop him from doing that and canceling out Peter.

What stops him is that he has to cast spells which is actually infinitely slower than Peters thought activated powers. As such the moment that the Battle Starts, Peter would already have stopped time, before Strange could even start to cast anything. As well, even if he managed to get off a Time Stop of his own, due to the fact that he has to cast it his stopped time would be in a future moment to that of Peters, so as long as Peter is able to Stop Strange in his moment then Strange wouldn't be able to go back to Peters moment and battle him...


Third, the man has so much more experience than Peter. Strange has battled cosmic beings, rulers of dimensions, and even talked to Infinity! The man has traveled through so many places, that I'd doubt if anything surprises him anymore. Heck, he even fought Adam Warlock with the Infinity Gauntlet!

That would all be good if it were an even playing field, it's not, and that experience wouldn't really matter.


Fourth, how will Peter get through Strange's shields. Even when not in battle, he keeps some in place, just in case. These things have taken massive amounts of damage, and I have yet to see someone teleport inside them.

The thing though is that as long as Peter is in his stopped time moment, he could keep on hitting and hitting with his super strength. Although not as powerful as the bigger heavy hitters, it would be like the Flash pelting someone with rocks, it'll add up. Since he has an infinite amount of time in his moment (barring fatigue/hunger/thrust) he could probably eventually break through Stranges shields.


Fifth, Strange has crazy powerful psychic shields. In Astral form, he rivals even the most powerful psychics on Marvel Earth. I'd like to see Peter try to read Strange's mind....

Ok, got me there


Seriously, I can't think of a single power which could help Peter...

Time Manipulation combined with Super Strength and/or Phasing and/or Super Speed and/or Pyrokinesis and/or Radioactivity...

My reply in Olive

#24 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 08:12 PM

You have me curious as to how my ideal team would stand up against yours...


Nova
Captain America
Gogeta(Had to put this)
X-Man
Dr. Strange
Quicksilver
Juggernaut

#25 Skirmisher

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 09:22 PM

You have me curious as to how my ideal team would stand up against yours...


Nova
Captain America
Gogeta(Had to put this)
X-Man
Dr. Strange
Quicksilver
Juggernaut


Well matching them up to their corresponding member rolls

Nova vs Vegito = Vegito (Not many can actually stand up to him)

Captain America vs Zhuge Liang = Liang, as he's a much better tactician and strategist, has dealt with other super powered heroes and villains and is also super powered in strength durability and Magical powers.

Gogeta vs Master Chief = The Chief takes the bullet here, then Vegito mops up.

X-Man vs TEOM = TEOM as he is the immortal combined incarnation of a few thousand powerful "Shamans", is a Alpha Plus psyker that has no limit on his ability, was able to shatter the mind of his son Horus who was amped up on the Four Chaos gods, etc. etc. etc. Like I said, there's a reason that Humanity views him as a god, and he has to repeatedly tell them he's not.

Dr. Strange vs Dr. Strange = Negation/Even

Quicksilver vs Peter = Peter, Timestop And Super Speed beat Super Speed

Juggernaut vs Mace = Could go either way, Juggs may not actually be able to touch Mace, and Mace's Shatterpoint ability may allow him to either beat or at least bypass his invulnerability.

#26 Marvel Man

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 10:14 PM

Alright, first of all, I've learned my lesson. 

Don't debate with Skirmisher unless you have the time to back up your opinions.

That being said, let us continue.

First of all, I'm 99.9999% sure that Strange would dominate Peter (the only exception would be due to plot device/bad writing).

Anyways, let's see your response:

 
That was Daphne who has shown the ability to cross the world in very little time. As well, it was also a side benefit of here "Speed Force" as she was only able to "Catch up" to the moment. Lastly, Hiro only slowed time down drastically, not completely stop it. Other times that Time Stop have been used has completely stopped time.

What stops him is that he has to cast spells which is actually infinitely slower than Peters thought activated powers. As such the moment that the Battle Starts, Peter would already have stopped time, before Strange could even start to cast anything. As well, even if he managed to get off a Time Stop of his own, due to the fact that he has to cast it his stopped time would be in a future moment to that of Peters, so as long as Peter is able to Stop Strange in his moment then Strange wouldn't be able to go back to Peters moment and battle him...

That would all be good if it were an even playing field, it's not, and that experience wouldn't really matter. 

The thing though is that as long as Peter is in his stopped time moment, he could keep on hitting and hitting with his super strength. Although not as powerful as the bigger heavy hitters, it would be like the Flash pelting someone with rocks, it'll add up. Since he has an infinite amount of time in his moment (barring fatigue/hunger/thrust) he could probably eventually break through Stranges shields.

Ok, got me there

Time Manipulation combined with Super Strength and/or Phasing and/or Super Speed and/or Pyrokinesis and/or Radioactivity...


Alright, I'll start with the easiest thing. I know you've admitted Strange's mental prowess, but just to make sure, check this out.

Here, Strange is attacked by Moondragon (a high level telepath). By itself, this is impressive, but to make it even better she has the Mind Gem!

Yes, the gem which has the Universe's collected conscious, is not enough against Dr. Strange.

http://img147.images...ss3of6181ff.jpg
http://img147.images...ss3of6213qs.jpg

Alright, next up is Daphne's superpowers. According to her wiki, she is indeed able to reach superfast speeds to the point of traveling around the world. However, she isn't at light speed (she reaches light speed after being boosted by Ando, so she isn't to begin with).

That being said, Strange has proven to move pretty fast. Just look at him flying from New York to the Amazon in less than a second.

http://img208.images...mf31pg24qs5.jpg

I'll expand on this in a moment.

Alright, next up is Peter's ability to stop time (which seems to be his only chance).

First of all, I checked the "Hero Wiki" for Daphne. On it, is stated that Hiro stopped time completely, and that time resumed after she knocked Hiro out. See for yourself:

After Hiro opens his father's safe, Daphne speeds through his office and snatches one half of a formula from his hands in a blur. Hiro quickly stops time, and, following a streak she left behind, catches up to her. She appears to be frozen in time, but when the wave vanishes from behind her, her eyes shift, revealing that she can move normally, even when time has stopped. Daphne, confused, asks Hiro how he caught up to her, asking if he's also a speedster. He explains that he can stop time, and tells her that she stole something from him. Holding up the paper with half of the formula written on it, she stops him from snatching it from her and questions him about his ability. When he doesn't give an answer, she punches him, unfreezing time before she speeds away


Going by this, Peter's ability to stop time isn't completely absolute. Otherwise Daphne wouldn't even be able to think, let alone activate her powers.

Taking that into consideration, look at this. In this scan, Strange knocks himself out by taking a drug (I don't know why). Even while unconscious, Strange is able to reach the Astral Plane, a place where he's just as powerful as in real life.

http://img209.images.../img009og7.jpg/

Still, if that doesn't convince you, look at Strange's own time manipulation. Here a guy aims a gun at somebody. Strange stops time, takes the gun, then re-activates time. He then explains what he just did.

http://img209.images...imestopyn8.jpg/

In this one, Strange stops time on an entire planet, then reverses it....

http://img203.images...erever12fl.jpg/

Let's pretend that Peter succeeds in freezing Strange. He then attempts to break Strange's shields. Even his own mystical aura can take massive damage, as is seen here.

Takes lava poured on him.

http://img81.imagesh...autoshhto7.jpg/

Bullets bounce off him.

http://img220.images...etproofhu6.jpg/

If you give him a second, he'll set even greater shields. Here, Hulk tries to break into Strange's house. He uses his massive strenght, yet even this is nothing. Heck, at the end, Hulk himself realizes that he isn't breaking in!

Hulk! So he just waits.

http://img78.imagesh...206pg12of4.jpg/

Let's pretend he breaks through. Did you know that Strange's soul is mixed in with Eternity's? In fact, he is nigh immortal. He will easily reach 600.

http://img204.images.../i/deadtp2.jpg/

Not sattisfied? Here, Death wants Strange dead. Strange says no way. In fact, he wills entire planets against Death

http://img384.images...e=death1lv4.jpg

Anyways, let's pretend that Peter's on super-steroids. He might actually injure Strange! Wait, nevermind. You see, Strange also wears the Eye of Agomotto (spelling?).

This thing reacts on light speed, and creates instand barriers to take even the most brutal attacks.

http://img129.images...edefensexf1.jpg

Still not convinced? Here Strange is so weakened that he resorts to taking over an inanimate object!

http://img215.images...inhabitzz4.jpg/

So, at this point, I'm pretty sure Strange has great defense. But what can he do to Peter?

How about rip his soul out and send it into the future?

http://img84.imagesh...s160192ao7.jpg/

Or turn him into stone?

http://img291.images.../stone1ci9.jpg/

But wait! Peter could still teleport to safety, right?

Nope. Here Strange tracks a guy down, while also showing off his own powers of teleportation.

http://i160.photobuc...ngetracking.jpg
http://i160.photobuc...getracking1.jpg

At this point, I'm almost done. Just to show on what level Strange's power is, here Strange gives Spider Man a gift. 5 minutes with Uncle Ben, straight from Heaven...

http://img215.images.../i/ben1zi6.jpg/
http://img209.images.../i/ben2za6.jpg/

Alright, now I'm done. I'm gonna go take a nap...

#27 treacherous

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 10:35 PM

I'm just proud of the great debating here. CBUB needs to take a look.

Juggernaut vs Mace = Could go either way, Juggs may not actually be able to touch Mace, and Mace's Shatterpoint ability may allow him to either beat or at least bypass his invulnerability.


For instance, that is a good question? Could it?

#28 Skirmisher

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 12:19 AM

Alright, next up is Daphne's superpowers. According to her wiki, she is indeed able to reach superfast speeds to the point of traveling around the world. However, she isn't at light speed (she reaches light speed after being boosted by Ando, so she isn't to begin with).

That being said, Strange has proven to move pretty fast. Just look at him flying from New York to the Amazon in less than a second.

http://img208.images...mf31pg24qs5.jpg

I'll expand on this in a moment.

Alright, next up is Peter's ability to stop time (which seems to be his only chance).

First of all, I checked the "Hero Wiki" for Daphne. On it, is stated that Hiro stopped time completely, and that time resumed after she knocked Hiro out. See for yourself:

"After Hiro opens his father's safe, Daphne speeds through his office and snatches one half of a formula from his hands in a blur. Hiro quickly stops time, and, following a streak she left behind, catches up to her. She appears to be frozen in time, but when the wave vanishes from behind her, her eyes shift, revealing that she can move normally, even when time has stopped. Daphne, confused, asks Hiro how he caught up to her, asking if he's also a speedster. He explains that he can stop time, and tells her that she stole something from him. Holding up the paper with half of the formula written on it, she stops him from snatching it from her and questions him about his ability. When he doesn't give an answer, she punches him, unfreezing time before she speeds away"


Going by this, Peter's ability to stop time isn't completely absolute. Otherwise Daphne wouldn't even be able to think, let alone activate her powers.

First off, her ability was already activated at the moment that Hiro used his Time Stop, which somehow shielded her from the bulk of Hiro's ability. Though if she isn't using her power at the time that Time is Stopped then she is affected just like everyone else.

Like I said, it's some sort of Heroes "Speed Force" that shields her from Time Stop while it's in use.


Taking that into consideration, look at this. In this scan, Strange knocks himself out by taking a drug (I don't know why). Even while unconscious, Strange is able to reach the Astral Plane, a place where he's just as powerful as in real life.

http://img209.images.../img009og7.jpg/

Still, if that doesn't convince you, look at Strange's own time manipulation. Here a guy aims a gun at somebody. Strange stops time, takes the gun, then re-activates time. He then explains what he just did.

http://img209.images...imestopyn8.jpg/

In this one, Strange stops time on an entire planet, then reverses it....

http://img203.images...erever12fl.jpg/

Let's pretend that Peter succeeds in freezing Strange. He then attempts to break Strange's shields. Even his own mystical aura can take massive damage, as is seen here.

Takes lava poured on him.

http://img81.imagesh...autoshhto7.jpg/

Bullets bounce off him.

http://img220.images...etproofhu6.jpg/

If you give him a second, he'll set even greater shields. Here, Hulk tries to break into Strange's house. He uses his massive strenght, yet even this is nothing. Heck, at the end, Hulk himself realizes that he isn't breaking in!

Hulk! So he just waits.

http://img78.imagesh...206pg12of4.jpg/

Let's pretend he breaks through. Did you know that Strange's soul is mixed in with Eternity's? In fact, he is nigh immortal. He will easily reach 600.

http://img204.images.../i/deadtp2.jpg/

Not sattisfied? Here, Death wants Strange dead. Strange says no way. In fact, he wills entire planets against Death

http://img384.images...e=death1lv4.jpg

Anyways, let's pretend that Peter's on super-steroids. He might actually injure Strange! Wait, nevermind. You see, Strange also wears the Eye of Agomotto (spelling?).

This thing reacts on light speed, and creates instand barriers to take even the most brutal attacks.

http://img129.images...edefensexf1.jpg

Still not convinced? Here Strange is so weakened that he resorts to taking over an inanimate object!

http://img215.images...inhabitzz4.jpg/


Time Manipulation
First Scan shows a situation where Strange has time to react and think about the situation, even converse with the hostage taker. As well he says that he is also reluctant to use that particular power.

Second scan shows the need for Great Concentration, going into a special position and having the narration go into great detail about it.


Shield Strength
First: his "natural shield" that's always up, it can take Lava... ok that's about 700 to 1200 C... and although either on par or many times hotter than Pyrokinisis, what about Induced Radioactivity? What if Peter goes Atomic on Stranges Shields... multiple times?

Second: Bullets? Really? so when have they been a good benchmark for durability? I think they went out of style in the 40's... But let's go into detail, a Bullet has about a couple thousand joules of KE... Peter going at super Speed with Super Strength would have how much energy behind his punches? Think of it like the little brother of the Infinite Mass Punch...

Third: The Hulk... but wait, how long did it take strange to put it up? Meaning he must have Cast the spell...

Forth: Eye of Agomotto (sp?)... But it says that it reacts "At the Speed of Light", so when Peter Stops time, he stops light. See, if it takes time for Light to travel then if you were to stop time then there would be no movement of that light. So Peter would be able to strike infinitely faster than the Eye can protect Strange.


Immortality
First: ... He plainly says it, that Strange will live for 600 or more years... Unless he falls in Battle!

Word for Word: "Death may come only from without, in Battle -- and not from within"

Second: Vs Death... ??? I don't really understand what is supposed to be happening in that scan. Is there more of the story, I think I need context for it to make sense.

Third: Object possession... Well that's great, but how does it help in the short term?



So, at this point, I'm pretty sure Strange has great defense. But what can he do to Peter?

How about rip his soul out and send it into the future?

http://img84.imagesh...s160192ao7.jpg/

Or turn him into stone?

http://img291.images.../stone1ci9.jpg/

But wait! Peter could still teleport to safety, right?

Nope. Here Strange tracks a guy down, while also showing off his own powers of teleportation.

http://i160.photobuc...ngetracking.jpg
http://i160.photobuc...getracking1.jpg

At this point, I'm almost done. Just to show on what level Strange's power is, here Strange gives Spider Man a gift. 5 minutes with Uncle Ben, straight from Heaven...

http://img215.images.../i/ben1zi6.jpg/
http://img209.images.../i/ben2za6.jpg/

Alright, now I'm done. I'm gonna go take a nap...

Yes, I get it, Peter doesn't have the power to last against Strange without Time Stop. But it's a Major ability, one that literally has infinite capability, and without PIS it would be the end all be all power of Heroes.

#29 Skirmisher

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 12:28 AM

I'm just proud of the great debating here. CBUB needs to take a look.



For instance, that is a good question? Could it?

I may have over estimated his power, though I may not have...

"Shatterpoints were perceived like faults in a Corusca gem. In relation to events, a single "strike," or action, could cause events to transpire completely differently than they might otherwise have. Often, shatterpoints existed for only brief moments, as they could be affected by even the smallest actions. Shatterpoints could also be discovered in the physiology of living beings. Cade Skywalker was able to perceive shatterpoints in Darth Talon, whom he had previously healed from mortal injury. By focusing through the Force on where the healing had taken place, Skywalker was able to see where her old wounds were, and reopen them."

Though, like anything even Invulnerability has it's limits, and since Mace can see the faults of his opponents physiology he could theoretically strike in such a way as to actually hurt an invulnerable person.

#30 Marvel Man

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 04:02 PM

Hurt.

The.

Juggernaut.

.... :mellow:

I'm sorry, but that's like drowning a fish in water.

Impossible.

The Juggernaut has absolutely no weak point (aside from psychic attacks). The man has survived being buried alive, cosmic blasts, etc. Need proof?

Here, the Juggernaut's flesh is burned off! He's just bones! Even the guy in the comic goes WTF?!

Posted Image

As for the Strange/Peter debate, I'll be right back.

#31 Skirmisher

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 07:04 PM

Hurt.

The.

Juggernaut.

.... :lol:

I'm sorry, but that's like drowning a fish in water.

Impossible.

The Juggernaut has absolutely no weak point (aside from psychic attacks). The man has survived being buried alive, cosmic blasts, etc. Need proof?

Here, the Juggernaut's flesh is burned off! He's just bones! Even the guy in the comic goes WTF?!

Posted Image

As for the Strange/Peter debate, I'll be right back.

Ok, point conceded, though wasn't that the amped up Juggs, not the regular one?

As for his weakness to Psychic attacks... Thank you for giving Mace the win...

Mace waves his hand ~ "You do not want to hurt my team..."
Juggs stares blankly forward ~ "I do not want to hurt your team..."
Mace ~ "I think you should walk away..."
Juggs, turns to leave ~ "I think I'll leave..."

#32 Hugo Fowl

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 07:09 PM

Ok, point conceded, though wasn't that the amped up Juggs, not the regular one?

As for his weakness to Psychic attacks... Thank you for giving Mace the win...

Mace waves his hand ~ "You do not want to hurt my team..."
Juggs stares blankly forward ~ "I do not want to hurt your team..."
Mace ~ "I think you should walk away..."
Juggs, turns to leave ~ "I think I'll leave..."


Excuse me for a moment, but isn't the Juggernaughts helmet impervious to psychic attacks? Even Xavier himself can't breach them.

#33 Skirmisher

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 07:09 PM

Wait... when did I start to confuse Juggernaut with Gladiator?

Juggs isn't even on the opposing team...


But still, how is Gladiator to Mind attacks and a Shatterpoint ability?

#34 Skirmisher

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 07:13 PM

Excuse me for a moment, but isn't the Juggernaughts helmet impervious to psychic attacks? Even Xavier himself can't breach them.

Xaviers and other psychic attacks seem to be more of a general wave style, where a big metal helmet would cover enough of the head to protect from it.

This wouldn't help against Jedi Mind Trick, as it's the spoken word. It's like super hypnotism rather than a Psychic Attack.

Then there's always the fact that his lightsaber could cut the helmet off quite easily...

#35 Hugo Fowl

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 07:18 PM

Xaviers and other psychic attacks seem to be more of a general wave style, where a big metal helmet would cover enough of the head to protect from it.

This wouldn't help against Jedi Mind Trick, as it's the spoken word. It's like super hypnotism rather than a Psychic Attack.

Then there's always the fact that his lightsaber could cut the helmet off quite easily...


Touche.

#36 Marvel Man

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 11:36 PM

Wait... when did I start to confuse Juggernaut with Gladiator?

Juggs isn't even on the opposing team...


But still, how is Gladiator to Mind attacks and a Shatterpoint ability?

How does Mace counter a FTL *fake word*?

#37 Skirmisher

Skirmisher

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 12:18 AM

How does Mace counter a FTL *fake word*?

Touche, yet not unexpected.

#38 treacherous

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 04:11 PM

Fight over!! Skirmisher for the win!! You can continue voting and debating, but it doesn't count in the competition.
Congratulations Skirmisher. You will be continuing on against Marvel Man in the Winners round. I'll have it up tonight or early tomorrow morning. I'm also shortening the rounds, so be ready.




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