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Think Like a Saiyan, Act Like a Ferret


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#1 G4hardcore

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 05:28 PM



Something has been bothering me lately. If you've ever been to the main page of this site, where the top members are displayed, you'll see a list of names according to a formula involving the CBUB Battles and the people who make them. You might even recognize my screen name up there, G4hardcore. I'm there, in 4th or 5th place. I'm sure some of you have been up there once. But there's a flaw in the system. And it has a great deal to do with pride!

This website is great, and I love the updates here and there, both big and small. One of my personal favorites is the change from the rating system to alphabetical scoring. I believe it can be refined just a little more, and I personally believe this is one of the more important and necessary refinements. It can't possibly be a bad thing, that's almost certain. I'm not just talking about one person, I'm talking about everyone. In some way, shape or form, this has affected everyone, and it will continue to.

As good a writer as I think I am, how many people think I deserve to be up there? That's rhetorical of course, but here's some news: I'm almost positive that the accuracy of that list is failing, and for a fairly simple, yet bothersome reason. People use anonymity to abuse ratings. I've never done this, but it is the reason I stick to the Rumbles section. It's actually kind of sad.

It's been mentioned here and there on the forums. Have voting come hand in hand with identification. Otherwise, it's too easy to weaponize. It's enough for me that this is at least read by others. Posting might help, I really don't know. All we need to do is support this idea. However you see fit. End the era of dying writers. Because what I see now, is folks rolling over like old dogs. Hell, I've rolled too. I don't want to anymore.

What's this got to do with pride? It's been called the deadliest of the seven sins. But maybe we need to embrace it, just a little. The whole reason that list is the first thing we see when we enter electricferret.com is so that we can be a little proud. Vegeta might be an example of over doing it, but he has a point. We all need to start showing pride in what we do, because the time and effort we put in is worth it. And if I get bumped down to 99th place, I'll be glad. That would just mean there are 98 people who were just a little better than me. Big whoop. ^_^

Because as it stands, I don't feel I've earned that place. Have I earned my score, yes. But not the placing, at least, we'll see if this comes to fruition. The Technomancer of Nesh and Nova Force Nova recently wrote a pair of great matches that received at least one poor score. So have many others. I guess I would call them the tipping point for me writing this at all. I'd hate to see guys like these stop writing.

#2 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 05:54 PM

This has been an issue for months now. It kind of made me stop writing too. I don't mind if I get a bad rating, but at least tell me why I deserve that grade. I can take criticism fine, but how can I improve if I get a D or an F with no reasoning?

#3 G4hardcore

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 06:04 PM

Exactly. As it is now, it's like getting punished for no reason. Sometimes, there isn't even a good reason, and at that point, something has to give. I agree, I've no problem with criticism. I actually want it!

#4 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 06:31 PM

I say live and let live. I'm probably a minority here but I write for the sake of writing, because its fun. Sure, constructive criticism is appreciated for improvement, but I really have no problem with getting a low grade in a leisure activity. It's not like homework or anything. It's just to have fun. When did it stop being fun? When one guy with really high standards/one douche of a judge/whatever floats your boat gives your match a low grade with no explanation? I think that's stupid. Yeah sure, we continue when we get nothing but praise for our masterpieces from multiple people...but one guy makes you stop? What kind of bullshit is this? Are you that weak-willed? You're high in the sky because of multiple nice guys, one different guy and it starts raining on your parade?

Haters gonna hate. The way of the world. Some people will hate you no matter what you write, do or say. Just the way of the world. It's not fair, but its just the way it is. You either can deal with that and accept it or you can't.

And for those that want to solve this somehow...

"The tighter you squeeze, the more they'll slip through your fingers."

Food for thought.


#5 force_echo

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 06:34 PM

I agree with Nova. Showing the grades is unnecessary. Who gives a damn about grades? It's a number system on a website, it doesn't mean anything. Write because you like it. What grade, or the amount of low grades you get, is irrelevant.

#6 treacherous

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 06:56 PM

Hmm, public display of how you guys votes...bad idea. Admin display of how you guys vote...good idea. However, you need someone who writes programs (IE: Fox). Somebody may want to email the webmaster and lead him to these threads. Just posting the thread doesn't guarantee the right ears will hear it. I don't participate in CBUB, so I'm completely impartial (as much as some users probably think I hate them, I really don't take that much time out of a second to think about you). But, I can't stand a cheat. Point me in the direction...

Well, I do my job on occasion. I think I have a good track record. *shrugs*

#7 G4hardcore

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:03 PM

I agree with Nova. Showing the grades is unnecessary. Who gives a damn about grades? It's a number system on a website, it doesn't mean anything. Write because you like it. What grade, or the amount of low grades you get, is irrelevant.

Is showing the grades unnecessary? Yes. So is writing your name on a book you wrote. So is getting plenty of exercise. So is traveling, eating sweets, watching television, Ect. Imagine if we lived out lives doing only what was strictly necessary, and nothing more. Whoopee.

If you read my post, you'd clearly see that I give a damn about grades. Actually, I'll be giving two damns now, to make up for the one you don't give. :P It matters to me, and several others I'd wager. A number system, yes, but it represents more than that, otherwise Fox wouldn't have put it up. He created it, is it such a stretch to want to use it the way it was intended?

#8 G4hardcore

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:07 PM

Hmm, public display of how you guys votes...bad idea. Admin display of how you guys vote...good idea. However, you need someone who writes programs (IE: Fox). Somebody may want to email the webmaster and lead him to these threads. Just posting the thread doesn't guarantee the right ears will hear it. I don't participate in CBUB, so I'm completely impartial (as much as some users probably think I hate them, I really don't take that much time out of a second to think about you). But, I can't stand a cheat. Point me in the direction...

Well, I do my job on occasion. I think I have a good track record. *shrugs*

I appreciate the opinion, really. I appreciate them all. And thanks for the advice, I'll be following it. :)

#9 G4hardcore

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:25 PM

I say live and let live. I'm probably a minority here but I write for the sake of writing, because its fun. Sure, constructive criticism is appreciated for improvement, but I really have no problem with getting a low grade in a leisure activity. It's not like homework or anything. It's just to have fun. When did it stop being fun? When one guy with really high standards/one douche of a judge/whatever floats your boat gives your match a low grade with no explanation? I think that's stupid. Yeah sure, we continue when we get nothing but praise for our masterpieces from multiple people...but one guy makes you stop? What kind of bullshit is this? Are you that weak-willed? You're high in the sky because of multiple nice guys, one different guy and it starts raining on your parade?

Haters gonna hate. The way of the world. Some people will hate you no matter what you write, do or say. Just the way of the world. It's not fair, but its just the way it is. You either can deal with that and accept it or you can't.

And for those that want to solve this somehow...

"The tighter you squeeze, the more they'll slip through your fingers."

Food for thought.

I'm glad that you write for fun. So do I, but writing isn't all fun and games for some. I, for one, actually take it relatively serious, because I put time and effort into it. It's even more fun when others enjoy it, because it gives a sense of accomplishment, which is equally important.

Your quote is pretty, and even true, but it also sounds like you believe one shouldn't try at all. I'm not asking for perfection, not even close. Just a little responsibility.Haters gonna hate? That's a saying invented by haters so that people can ignore them, and by extension, perpetuate them. There is no definitive way of the world, because it is always changing. And it always will change: and that is a fact. Because it is always changing, to presume to know how it will always be is dangerous and bordering on the oblivious.

I haven't written in that section for quite a long time, so your high in the sky example doesn't currently apply to me. However, it has nothing to do with being weak willed. It has to do with owning what you do.

#10 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:37 PM

I say live and let live. I'm probably a minority here but I write for the sake of writing, because its fun. Sure, constructive criticism is appreciated for improvement, but I really have no problem with getting a low grade in a leisure activity. It's not like homework or anything. It's just to have fun. When did it stop being fun? When one guy with really high standards/one douche of a judge/whatever floats your boat gives your match a low grade with no explanation? I think that's stupid. Yeah sure, we continue when we get nothing but praise for our masterpieces from multiple people...but one guy makes you stop? What kind of bullshit is this? Are you that weak-willed? You're high in the sky because of multiple nice guys, one different guy and it starts raining on your parade?

You contradicted yourself there. You recognize that criticism is good for improvement, then go on to say people are quitting because someone isn't "nice". Writing is a leisure activity, I won't argue that, but for me, I am competitive, and I like to get better at things I enjoy. I can't get better if who ever is giving me the low grade won't tell me why I deserve it. I actually prefer harsh criticism over praise.

#11 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:40 PM

I'm glad that you write for fun. So do I, but writing isn't all fun and games for some. I, for one, actually take it relatively serious, because I put time and effort into it. It's even more fun when others enjoy it, because it gives a sense of accomplishment, which is equally important.

Your quote is pretty, and even true, but it also sounds like you believe one shouldn't try at all. I'm not asking for perfection, not even close. Just a little responsibility.Haters gonna hate? That's a saying invented by haters so that people can ignore them, and by extension, perpetuate them. There is no definitive way of the world, because it is always changing. And it always will change: and that is a fact. Because it is always changing, to presume to know how out will always be is dangerous and bordering on the oblivious.

I haven't written in that section for quite a long time, so your high in the sky example doesn't currently apply to me. However, it has nothing to do with being weak willed. It has to do with owning what you do.


Writing isn't all fun and games if you're a professional author, true. But writing on this site for free is mostly that, it does not affect your writing as an author other than being influential and a level of improvement in writing novels. Moreover, you say it's a sense of accomplishment when others enjoy it. Great. Are you ignoring all the other satisfactory grades that suggest enjoyment and focus on the one that doesn't?

The origin of the phrase doesn't really matter. Even Stephen King, H.P. Lovercraft, Michael Crichton and others have/had their fan and hate bases.

The world is frequently changing true but some things never change, such as the fact that not everyone will like your stuff, which is what I said in the first place.

It has everything to do with being weak willed. You said yourself you continue writing when everything's positive but once it's negative, you slow/stop writing. That's not what authors should do.

#12 treacherous

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:43 PM

G4, You're also speaking as if everyone will be as mature about it as you are claiming to be. This is the Internet, they won't.

#13 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:44 PM

You contradicted yourself there. You recognize that criticism is good for improvement, then go on to say people are quitting because someone isn't "nice". Writing is a leisure activity, I won't argue that, but for me, I am competitive, and I like to get better at things I enjoy. I can't get better if who ever is giving me the low grade won't tell me why I deserve it. I actually prefer harsh criticism over praise.


I didn't say that. I said constructive criticism is good for improvement. What this guy is doing is either rating on his own scale of grades without telling us what that is or is just being a hater.

Then you say you quit because someone anonymously did something negative, despite the fact that you already have several positive rates plus constructive criticism for you to improve upon.

#14 treacherous

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:52 PM

Two Notes:

1. It could be that someone has higher standards. I know that I would grade on a curve for CBUB. You don't want an FPL critique (Although, our CA's haves been a little lightweight lately).

2. A former FPLer is now a published author and his book is on Amazon. This site can be serious for some.

#15 sirmethos

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:57 PM

I would love to see some FPL'ers critique some of the CBUB matches.

If I actually had any interest in being a writer, I would love to have the FPL'ers critique my matches(though I was kinda disappointed lately, when I went to the FPL matches, expecting their usual level of writing, and got random 5 line 'setups').

#16 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:01 PM

Two Notes:

1. It could be that someone has higher standards. I know that I would grade on a curve for CBUB. You don't want an FPL critique (Although, our CA's haves been a little lightweight lately).

2. A former FPLer is now a published author and his book is on Amazon. This site can be serious for some.


1. That's what I said.

2. That's true, but I was thinking more CBUB than FPL when I said that. FPL is all about writing on your own characters and worlds and encourages that, which only improves your writing. CBUB isn't as original idea oriented as FPL but can also improve your writing. The site can be serious, indeed, I'm not saying it shouldn't be. I'm just saying that if you're serious, you don't give up when the going gets tough.

#17 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:03 PM

Meh. I guess we all can say this and that, shit won't change anyways so it is a pointless discussion.

#18 treacherous

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:05 PM

@Sirmethos - Yeah, we've been a little dead in the water lately. I know that I haven't done a "harsh" critique in a long while. Ivan, Landon and the others hardly ever do them. Right now is a really good time to get in and avoid the damaging psychological effects. If somebody were to promise not to have a nervous breakdown, I'd be willing to give a real in depth critique to a CBUB match. Deo and Pseudonym are good at it. But the best critiques I've ever seen have been from Landon, Ivan and Mr. Graves. Good luck on getting those.

#19 G4hardcore

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:17 PM

G4, You're also speaking as if everyone will be as mature about it as you are claiming to be. This is the Internet, they won't.

Actually, I'm speaking with the hope that our community can grow to become more mature, something a bit more feasible. And I, for one, would love to see an increase in the amount of CBUB critiques you put out, granted you have the time. Things can get busy, I know.

#20 G4hardcore

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:27 PM

2. That's true, but I was thinking more CBUB than FPL when I said that. FPL is all about writing on your own characters and worlds and encourages that, which only improves your writing. CBUB isn't as original idea oriented as FPL but can also improve your writing. The site can be serious, indeed, I'm not saying it shouldn't be. I'm just saying that if you're serious, you don't give up when the going gets tough.

A lot of people started on CBUB before they got to FPL, or less often, vice versa. It's less about what part of the site that you came from, and more about having come from EF as a whole, which is a writing oriented website. And I still write, everyday. Just less frequently in one particular section of this site, not the site as a whole. I have not given up, and never will. My problem, and the problem others may be having, is that people aren't getting the credit they should be, including you Nova. If that doesn't bother you*, that's okay. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't bother other people.




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