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Rumble 12572 Darkseid vs. Madara Uchiha vs. Thanos


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#41 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 03:01 PM

How will Juggernaut deal with Apoc's telepathy? And he's used his matter manipulation plenty of times.

#42 KidStranglehold

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 03:06 PM

How will Juggernaut deal with Apoc's telepathy? And he's used his matter manipulation plenty of times.


I already agreed that it wasn't BB. Read my other post.

Juggernaut is resistant to telepathy. Again only magic can really hurt Juggernaut..

#43 KidStranglehold

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 03:07 PM

I have to go guys. I'll be back. :)

#44 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 04:00 PM

...No he isn't. It's been established numerous times within the comics themselves that telepathy is one of the few things that can stop him.

#45 comic_book_fan

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 04:07 PM

Hulk is no where near as strong as Thor. Thor strength feats alone are superior to Hulks, but that's another debate.

I already know about Apoacalypse beating Hulk.

superman's strength feats are better then doomesday's but he isn't stronger.
same here even though doomesday did not push planets around we know he is stronger cause when he fought superman he over powered him easly hulk has continued to beat thor most of the time despite thor's other abilities herc is stronger then thor as well.

#46 force_echo

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 04:22 PM

I'm pretty sure you can only harm Juggs with telepathy when his helmet is off. Ofc, it shouldn't be that hard for Apoc to rip off Jugg's helmet. Besides, Apoc is leagues smarter than Juggs, if Spider-Man can stop him by burying him under wet cement, I'm pretty sure Apoc can too. Also, regular Juggs never beat Thor, and I'm pretty sure he's never beaten Hulk.

#47 sirmethos

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 05:49 PM

"Than Brainiac is considered useless..."

When it comes to prep. yes. But then again, I already pointed that out in my first post.

There is no equipment to build technological things from, which takes away most of Dr. Doom and Thanos' prep. abilities(as well as Brainiac's and some of Darkseid's). Another advantage for Team Darkseid.


However, he still has his Technopathy(which makes him effective against Doom), Super Strength(and durability) enough to go toe to toe with Superman, Telepathy and Telekinesis. He also has relatively impressive strategical/tactical skills(though not on par with the actual tacticians/strategists on the team), and is more intelligent than anyone else in the match. So no, he is not completely useless.


"I bet Juggs can easily defeat Bizzaro. And his durability is a team savor."

What does this have to do with their prep. ability?

Anyway, while Juggernaut might have the strength, and definitely has the durability, to go up against Bizarro, he(juggs) doesn't have the speed for it. Juggernaut is just barely super-human when it comes to speed, while Bizarro is easily faster than light.


"Doom is a good strategist for invading Wakanda(one of the richest and most power countries) and almost succeeding..."

Aye, and I never claimed that he is not a good strategist. All I said, which is simply a fact, was that the examples you brought up to show his strategic abilities, had nothing to do with his strategic skill. However, the invasion of Wakanda is pretty much his most impressive strategic 'feat'. And while it is impressive, it simply doesn't measure up to Darkseid.


"What? He out-thought Tyrant by escaping their fight."

Running away hardly counts as "out-thinking" your opponent. If it does, then Batman is far from as mentally impressive as I thought, considering that he is being "out-thought" by random thugs every day -.-


"Thanos was able to get into Galactus mind."

Yea, we already covered that. He was able to enter Galactus' mind, while Galactus wasn't paying attention, or actively defending himself in anyway, and was thrown out of Galactus' mind in seconds, once he(galactus) actually started defending himself.

Again, that =/= "out-thinking" him.

Come on, Thanos does actually have some fairly impressive 'feats', and all you're throwing at me is the random garbage. You can do better than that.


"I doubt a idiot would have the brains to try to go up against Darkseid like Batman did."

Batman shooting Darkseid, didn't require any particular amount of intelligence. Guts, yes. But intelligence? Not so much.


"That was still Galactus, I doubt people on team Galactus can resist that besides Darkseid and MAYBE Black Adam."

Both Darkseid and Brainiac have powerful telepathy of their own, and could resist it with relative ease. And Black Adam has proven to be extremely resistant to telepathy.


"I know a lot about Darkseid. It seems you're thinking this is pre crisis Darkseid.. Pre Crisis Darkseid was able to do that, but the writers toned him down."

No, that was Post-crisis Darkseid. It happened about 3 years(real time) after Crisis.

But I'm well aware that Pre-Crisis Darkseid was considerably more powerful.


"Odin can easily bust a galaxy."

That's true, but what does that have to do with anything?

A galaxy =/= 1/5 of a universe.

#48 KidStranglehold

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 11:28 AM

...No he isn't. It's been established numerous times within the comics themselves that telepathy is one of the few things that can stop him.


With his helmet off...

#49 KidStranglehold

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 11:30 AM

superman's strength feats are better then doomesday's but he isn't stronger.
same here even though doomesday did not push planets around we know he is stronger cause when he fought superman he over powered him easly hulk has continued to beat thor most of the time despite thor's other abilities herc is stronger then thor as well.


Superman beat Doomsday more times than Doomsday beat him..

Thor holds back against Hulk, because Bruce is considered a friend to Thor. Thor beat Hulk more times in their encounter. Even Stan Lee says Thor is more stronger.

#50 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 11:33 AM

With his helmet off...


Apocalypse is easily strong enough to remove Juggs' helmet.

#51 xLEGACYx

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 11:38 AM

Superman beat Doomsday more times than Doomsday beat him..

Thor holds back against Hulk, because Bruce is considered a friend to Thor. Thor beat Hulk more times in their encounter. Even Stan Lee says Thor is more stronger.

just a quick thought.

How can anyone be stronger than Hulk when he continuously gets stronger in a fight. Its impossible for Thor to be stronger. Thor could be more durable but not stronger. Thor's strength finite. Hulks is infinite.

#52 KidStranglehold

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 11:48 AM

"Than Brainiac is considered useless..."

When it comes to prep. yes. But then again, I already pointed that out in my first post.



However, he still has his Technopathy(which makes him effective against Doom), Super Strength(and durability) enough to go toe to toe with Superman, Telepathy and Telekinesis. He also has relatively impressive strategical/tactical skills(though not on par with the actual tacticians/strategists on the team), and is more intelligent than anyone else in the match. So no, he is not completely useless.

True, but I think Thanos telepathy feats are better IMO...

"I bet Juggs can easily defeat Bizzaro. And his durability is a team savor."

What does this have to do with their prep. ability?

That means Juggs can completely get him out of the way, thus making the fight a bit easier? What can team darkseid do against Juggs durability. I remember magic can only really hurt him and he has his helmet for resisting telepathy.


Anyway, while Juggernaut might have the strength, and definitely has the durability, to go up against Bizarro, he(juggs) doesn't have the speed for it. Juggernaut is just barely super-human when it comes to speed, while Bizarro is easily faster than light.

True, but Bizarro barley uses his speed and he's dumber than Juggs.

"Doom is a good strategist for invading Wakanda(one of the richest and most power countries) and almost succeeding..."

Aye, and I never claimed that he is not a good strategist. All I said, which is simply a fact, was that the examples you brought up to show his strategic abilities, had nothing to do with his strategic skill. However, the invasion of Wakanda is pretty much his most impressive strategic 'feat'. And while it is impressive, it simply doesn't measure up to Darkseid.

Of course, Darkseid is cosmic level... But Thanos is a better stragetist than post crisis Darkseid. Seeing how Thanos accomplished more things like getting the Hotu...

"What? He out-thought Tyrant by escaping their fight."

Running away hardly counts as "out-thinking" your opponent. If it does, then Batman is far from as mentally impressive as I thought, considering that he is being "out-thought" by random thugs every day -.-

Tyrant could have killed him easily... Thanos wasn't really trying fight him.


"Thanos was able to get into Galactus mind."

Yea, we already covered that. He was able to enter Galactus' mind, while Galactus wasn't paying attention, or actively defending himself in anyway, and was thrown out of Galactus' mind in seconds, once he(galactus) actually started defending himself.

Again, that =/= "out-thinking" him.

I know...

Come on, Thanos does actually have some fairly impressive 'feats', and all you're throwing at me is the random garbage. You can do better than that.

You consider trying go up against Galactus garbage?? Also taking a full blast from Odin garbage?

"I doubt a idiot would have the brains to try to go up against Darkseid like Batman did."

Batman shooting Darkseid, didn't require any particular amount of intelligence. Guts, yes. But intelligence? Not so much.

He still found something that can hurt Darkseid. I doubt a regular person would know how to hurt him...


"That was still Galactus, I doubt people on team Galactus can resist that besides Darkseid and MAYBE Black Adam."

Both Darkseid and Brainiac have powerful telepathy of their own, and could resist it with relative ease. And Black Adam has proven to be extremely resistant to telepathy.

I doubt Braniacs telepathy is as good as Thanos. Who did Black Adam resist telepathy from?

"I know a lot about Darkseid. It seems you're thinking this is pre crisis Darkseid.. Pre Crisis Darkseid was able to do that, but the writers toned him down."

No, that was Post-crisis Darkseid. It happened about 3 years(real time) after Crisis.

But I'm well aware that Pre-Crisis Darkseid was considerably more powerful.

Scan?

"Odin can easily bust a galaxy."

That's true, but what does that have to do with anything?

A galaxy =/= 1/5 of a universe.

You said Darkseid can destroy a galaxy. And I pointed out Odin can easily destroy one. Thanos fought Odin.....
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Mines in purple...

#53 KidStranglehold

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 11:54 AM

just a quick thought.

How can anyone be stronger than Hulk when he continuously gets stronger in a fight. Its impossible for Thor to be stronger. Thor could be more durable but not stronger. Thor's strength finite. Hulks is infinite.


Hulks strength limited, because there is a limit to anger... Hulk at his angriest still had trouble with the Sentry.

I never seen Hulk pull these off.

Pulls Midgard Serpent.
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Thor and Hercules arm wrestling could knock the planet out of orbit!(Hercules is waaaay stronger than Hulk)
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#54 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 12:23 PM

Uh, Hulk beat the shit out of Hercules during WWH. Hell, even the standard, Savage Hulk has equaled Hercules in combat.

#55 sirmethos

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:50 PM

-sigh-


"True, but I think Thanos telepathy feats are better IMO..."

What does that have to do with anything?

You said that with no tech. and thus the majority of his prep. ability taken away, Brainiac is useless. I simply pointed out that he isn't.



"That means Juggs can completely get him out of the way, thus making the fight a bit easier? What can team darkseid do against Juggs durability. I remember magic can only really hurt him and he has his helmet for resisting telepathy."

And I apparently have to repeat the question. What does that have to do with their prep ability? Stick to the point, instead of dancing around it.


Now, to answer your question, despite you not answering mine.

1. "What can team Darkseid do against Juggernaut's durability?". They can remove his helmet, then neutralize him with Telepathy.


"True, but Bizarro barley uses his speed and he's dumber than Juggs."

Hulk is dumber than Juggernaut as well, but he(hulk) has managed to beat Juggernaut plenty of times.

And he tends to use his speed primarily for getting in and out of slugfests. Which would be extremely useful against Juggernaut. Charge him with Superspeed(which bizarro tends to do), slug it out for a while, then retreat with Superspeed. Keep in mind that Darkseid and Thanos are the team leaders. Bizarro doesn't have to be smart, he just has to follow orders.


"Of course, Darkseid is cosmic level... But Thanos is a better stragetist than post crisis Darkseid. Seeing how Thanos accomplished more things like getting the Hotu..."

Thanos doesn't really have any strategist/tactics feats that are better than Darkseid's. Getting the HotU wasn't a particularly impressive feat, considering that Thanos himself, said that he was being guided/helped in getting it.

In comparison, one of Darkseid's best strategy feats, which is beyond anything Thanos has done, was orchestrating the war between Monarch and the Monitors. As well as his plan with sending Batman back in time. And winning the war between Gods.


"You consider trying go up against Galactus garbage?? Also taking a full blast from Odin garbage?"

Fantastic Four regularly go up against Galactus, Thor has gone up against Galactus, etc. etc. So yes, compared to Thanos' actually impressive feats "trying to go up against Galactus" is not impressive.

Also, Thanos did not take a full blast from Odin. Odin didn't consider Thanos a threat, and smacked him around like a redheaded stepchild at Walmart. The only thing that came out of the fight, was that Odin acknowledged Thanos as being tougher(more durable) than anyone thought, including Odin. But yes, his fight against Odin is, compared to his actually impressive feats, essentially garbage.


"He still found something that can hurt Darkseid. I doubt a regular person would know how to hurt him..."

He pulled the bullet out of Orion, which was proof that it can/could hurt a New God, then he used that same bullet against Darkseid. As I said, any idiot with a gun could have done that.


"I doubt Braniacs telepathy is as good as Thanos. Who did Black Adam resist telepathy from?"

And I have never claimed that Brainiac's telepathy was as good as Thanos', so that's a moot point. I said that Braininac could resist Thanos' telepathy.

As for Black Adam, he resisted(repelled) Martian Manhunter's first attempt to telepathically subdue him during WWIII.



"Scan?"

Dr. Fate creates a spell to destroy an entire reality, in order to keep the living Anti-Life Equation in check, so it doesn't take over the entire universe. Darkseid provides 1/5 of the power.

If you want the entire story, go read Galactic Odyssey.

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"You said Darkseid can destroy a galaxy. And I pointed out Odin can easily destroy one. Thanos fought Odin....."

Not true, I said that Darkseid provided 1/5 of the power to destroy a universe. and that destroying a galaxy =/= destroying 1/5 of a universe.

As for Thanos fighting Odin, we already went over that. Odin smacked him around like a redheaded stepchild. Not particualrly an impressive feat, aside from his durability.

#56 xLEGACYx

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 05:38 PM

I dont understand why people think of Darkseid as a joke. He has had some laughable moments but he has also had moments where he out smarts and overpowers EVERYONE in recent history.

Sirmethos has already pointed out two instances

#57 MarvelFan15

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:35 PM

I'm guessing you missed the part where the majority of his magical power, is removed from his arsenal, due to being in a hyperbolic type time-chamber, since that is basically a pocket dimension, completely cut off from the rest of reality.


2. As I(and kain) already pointed out, Doom is cut off from the majority of his magical power. Most of his spells(particularly the powerful ones) are powered by various demons and deities, that he can't access due to being in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.


Considering that every single demon and deity Doom calls upon for aid exists in a "pocket dimension completely cut off from reality" and said demons/deities still manage to lend him power without effort, how does being in another pocket dimension preclude the use of external magical power ups on Doom's part? Ignoring, of course, that the arena is only described as being similar to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and not in any way existing in an alternate dimension.*

Not that it changes the discourse of the fight overmuch, I just find that reasoning to be a bit fallacious.
---

*Unless it was stated by the OP in a PM or some such method, then I apologize.

#58 kainboa

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 07:40 AM

snip


Considering that every single demon and deity Doom calls upon for aid exists in a "pocket dimension completely cut off from reality"

There's just one error in this reasoning.

The fact that he can receive power from them, means that they aren't completely cut off from reality.

We've seen time and time again, that various people are able to travel to the myriads of dimensions that the different deities and demons inhabit, and as such we can quite clearly see that they are not completely cut off from the rest of reality.

The Hyperbolic Time Chamber, is completely cut off from the rest of reality, it is one of the two main effects of it, and there was a special warning, not to stay in it too long, since the person would be forever lost if that happened.

Granted with enough power it is possible to blast through that particular barrier, however for all intents and purposes, it exists as a single reality, cut off from everything else.

#59 KidStranglehold

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 12:48 PM

@
sirmethos


-sigh-



"What does that have to do with anything?

You said that with no tech. and thus the majority of his prep. ability taken away, Brainiac is useless. I simply pointed out that he isn't.
"

No I'm just saying I've seen better telepathy feats from Thanos. Thanos was able to mind control Hulk... Hulk who is said to be resistant to telepathy... Not even Xavier could get into Hulks mind.

http://i50.tinypic.com/311xrx0.jpg


"And I apparently have to repeat the question. What does that have to do with their prep ability? Stick to the point, instead of dancing around it."

What are you talking about? I'm not saying that has anything to do with prep ablity. I thought we already got rid of that?

"Now, to answer your question, despite you not answering mine.

1. "What can team Darkseid do against Juggernaut's durability?". They can remove his helmet, then neutralize him with Telepathy."


What question did I not answer? I'll gladly try to anwser it.

Also they have no prep... So how will they know about his weakness?

"True, but Bizarro barley uses his speed and he's dumber than Juggs."

"Hulk is dumber than Juggernaut as well, but he(hulk) has managed to beat Juggernaut plenty of times.

And he tends to use his speed primarily for getting in and out of slugfests. Which would be extremely useful against Juggernaut. Charge him with Superspeed(which bizarro tends to do), slug it out for a while, then retreat with Superspeed. Keep in mind that Darkseid and Thanos are the team leaders. Bizarro doesn't have to be smart, he just has to follow orders
."

Juggernaut also beat Hulk and Thor... Thor who is stronger than Hulk... Here Thors Hammer does completely nothing against Juggs. And I believe Thors hammer moves faster than Bizarro. I'll glady provide scans.
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And Thanos too can tell Juggs a strategy, since Thanos has been proven to be good at leading teams...



"Thanos doesn't really have any strategist/tactics feats that are better than Darkseid's. Getting the HotU wasn't a particularly impressive feat, considering that Thanos himself, said that he was being guided/helped in getting it.

In comparison, one of Darkseid's best strategy feats, which is beyond anything Thanos has done, was orchestrating the war between Monarch and the Monitors. As well as his plan with sending Batman back in time. And winning the war between Gods
."

Thanos was almost had a plan to stop the Annihilation wave until he was killed by Drax. But Galactus was the one that single handly stopped it.




"Fantastic Four regularly go up against Galactus, Thor has gone up against Galactus, etc. etc. So yes, compared to Thanos' actually impressive feats "trying to go up against Galactus" is not impressive."

I doubt the Fantastic Four can knock Galactus down or take a blast from him...

"Also, Thanos did not take a full blast from Odin. Odin didn't consider Thanos a threat, and smacked him around like a redheaded stepchild at Walmart. The only thing that came out of the fight, was that Odin acknowledged Thanos as being tougher(more durable) than anyone thought, including Odin. But yes, his fight against Odin is, compared to his actually impressive feats, essentially garbage."

That still showed impressive durability.



"He pulled the bullet out of Orion, which was proof that it can/could hurt a New God, then he used that same bullet against Darkseid. As I said, any idiot with a gun could have done that."

Fair.



"And I have never claimed that Brainiac's telepathy was as good as Thanos', so that's a moot point. I said that Braininac could resist Thanos' telepathy."

My bad for misunderstanding you.

"As for Black Adam, he resisted(repelled) Martian Manhunter's first attempt to telepathically subdue him during WWIII."

I see.

But we can debate whether Thanos or MM's telepathy is better.




"Scan?"

"Dr. Fate creates a spell to destroy an entire reality, in order to keep the living Anti-Life Equation in check, so it doesn't take over the entire universe. Darkseid provides 1/5 of the power.

If you want the entire story, go read Galactic Odyssey."


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"Not true, I said that Darkseid provided 1/5 of the power to destroy a universe. and that destroying a galaxy =/= destroying 1/5 of a universe."

Sorry I missunderstood you.

"As for Thanos fighting Odin, we already went over that. Odin smacked him around like a redheaded stepchild. Not particualrly an impressive feat, aside from his durability."

I posted that as a durability feat and Odin did see Thanos as one of the toughest opponent he faced for not backing down...

Here's another one of Thanos durability.

Thanos survives a MASSIVE attack from the female version Beyonder...
http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=t09182ql.jpg
http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=t09193ig.jpg
http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thanos100151by.jpg

#60 KidStranglehold

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 12:49 PM

I dont understand why people think of Darkseid as a joke. He has had some laughable moments but he has also had moments where he out smarts and overpowers EVERYONE in recent history.

Sirmethos has already pointed out two instances


Nobody is underestimating Darkseid.




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