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Rumble 12572 Darkseid vs. Madara Uchiha vs. Thanos


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#21 kainboa

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 12:19 AM

snip


Also Doom dosen't need tech, he is also skilled with magic being able to take on characters such as Dr Strange.

I'm guessing you missed the part where the majority of his magical power, is removed from his arsenal, due to being in a hyperbolic type time-chamber, since that is basically a pocket dimension, completely cut off from the rest of reality.

Thanos doesn't really not need tech. Recent Thanos is the avatar of Death. He an cause permanent death and his shielding and energy manipulation is superior to anyone on Darkseids team. His shielding were able to withstand blast from Galactus..

I'm guessing you haven't actually read that particular comic, since it only took one blast from Galactus, to send Thanos to his knees begging visibly damaged, and it was directly stated by Galactus, that he would only need another blast to get through it.

#22 sirmethos

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:24 AM

"I asked the OP and he said 12 hour prep..."

Yes, I know. What's your point? They still don't have any information to use for their prep. Which still gives the advantage to Team Darkseid.


"Team Thanos have better strategist. tacticians IMO.."

Ok, do you have anything to back that up? I.e. what are you basing that opinion on?


"Also Doom dosen't need tech, he is also skilled with magic being able to take on characters such as Dr Strange."

1. The majority of Doom's "prep work", happens with tech. Stealing the powers of Silver Surfer, Galactus, Beyonder, etc. all happened with tech. As I said, without tech, the majority of Doom's prep. ability has been taken away. 2. As I(and kain) already pointed out, Doom is cut off from the majority of his magical power. Most of his spells(particularly the powerful ones) are powered by various demons and deities, that he can't access due to being in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.


"If characters like Batman are able to out think Post Crises Darkseid, than I think Doom would be able too."

Batman hasn't "out thought" post-crisis Darkseid. He has bluffed him, and Darkseid wasn't willing to call the bluff, but that =/= out-thinking.

If you can actually bring up examples of Darkseid being "out thought", I'll be willing to concede on that one though.


"Thanos doesn't really not need tech."

For actual combat, that's true. But for prep. work, he does. Every single one of his prep. feats worth mentioning, were done with tech.

Hence, as I said, the fact that there is no tech. takes away the majority of Thanos' prep. ability.


"Recent Thanos is the avatar of Death. He an cause permanent death and his shielding and energy manipulation is superior to anyone on Darkseids team."

I'm well aware that Thanos is the avatar of Death. As for his shielding and energy manipulation being "superior to anyone on Darkseid's team". Hardly. Darkseid's own energy manipulation, and shielding, is more impressive.


"His shielding were able to withstand blast from Galactus..
http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing"


Just so we have all the facts from that feat: 1. Galactus was barely making any effort. and 2. After just one blast, Thanos was begging for mercy, and a second blast would have killed him.

So, to sum up. Thanos was, despite his shielding, brought to the point of begging for mercy, with a single half-assed blast from Galactus. Still relatively impressive, but far from as impressive as you make it out to be.


"Dude Apocalypse is a complete jobber gets beating by weaker characters such as Magneto.. Come on."

And Juggernaut is not a jobber? He has been beaten by, among others, the original X-men team, and Spider-Man.


"Juggs on the other hand fought way stronger people."

Aye, and so has Apocalypse. Like single-handedly defeating the Inhumans, or the X-men.


"If you're going to replace juggernaut, replace him with Legion, Void or Mister Sinister IMO."

Oh yes, replacing Juggernaut with Sinister is a great idea, but replacing him with someone that Sinister is afraid of, is a bad one.[/sarcasm]

#23 xman4life

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 03:16 AM

Apocalypse is a great canidate to be on team Marvel your forgetting Apocalypse is poised to take over the world no matter what the outcome is. Age of Apocalypse should mean something to you. Other than Dr.Doom you wont find another person more feared in Marvel.

#24 KidStranglehold

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 01:08 PM

how he was written doesnt take away from his intelligence or his powers. Thor was written basically like a cave man but that doesnt take way the fact he is the GOD OF THUNDER and have a vast array of abilities that he doesnt use.

Just like Superman getting sucker punched by ANYONE who isnt named, Flash, Wonder Woman, or Captain Marvel.

Apocalypse would give a thorough beating to juggs. Sorry.


Wrong...

I don't know about intelligence. But Juggs has waaaay better strength feats compared to Apocalypse. How could Apocalypse even hurt him? He processes no magic abilities what so ever.

Juggs is leagues ahead of Apocalypse. He has the powers of a power demon..

#25 KidStranglehold

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 01:11 PM

Also Doom dosen't need tech, he is also skilled with magic being able to take on characters such as Dr Strange.

I'm guessing you missed the part where the majority of his magical power, is removed from his arsenal, due to being in a hyperbolic type time-chamber, since that is basically a pocket dimension, completely cut off from the rest of reality.

Thanos doesn't really not need tech. Recent Thanos is the avatar of Death. He an cause permanent death and his shielding and energy manipulation is superior to anyone on Darkseids team. His shielding were able to withstand blast from Galactus..

I'm guessing you haven't actually read that particular comic, since it only took one blast from Galactus, to send Thanos to his knees begging visibly damaged, and it was directly stated by Galactus, that he would only need another blast to get through it.


Still he was able tank.. Also he took a full blast from Odin who is Skyfather level and he didn't even have a scratch..

#26 KidStranglehold

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 01:38 PM

"I asked the OP and he said 12 hour prep..."

Yes, I know. What's your point? They still don't have any information to use for their prep. Which still gives the advantage to Team Darkseid.


The OP still said 12 hour prep time. It's the OP rules...


Ok, do you have anything to back that up? I.e. what are you basing that opinion on?



Dr Doom, Loki, Magneto and Thanos are better tacticians and Strategist..I'm bashing this on how Dr Doom is able to go up against people like Dr Strange, Beyonder, Silver Surfer. Thanos is able to out-think extremely powerful people like Galactus and Tyrant.



1. The majority of Doom's "prep work", happens with tech. Stealing the powers of Silver Surfer, Galactus, Beyonder, etc. all happened with tech. As I said, without tech, the majority of Doom's prep. ability has been taken away. 2. As I(and kain) already pointed out, Doom is cut off from the majority of his magical power. Most of his spells(particularly the powerful ones) are powered by various demons and deities, that he can't access due to being in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.

If that's the case, then why is this match in this location? And why is Doom even here? I'm being honest I don't know much about the Hyperbolic Time Chamber...




Batman hasn't "out thought" post-crisis Darkseid. He has bluffed him, and Darkseid wasn't willing to call the bluff, but that =/= out-thinking.

If you can actually bring up examples of Darkseid being "out thought", I'll be willing to concede on that one though.

Batman almost killed Darkseid. I know I didn't go into detail when I said Batman out-thought Darkseid, but he was still able to do this.
Posted Image




For actual combat, that's true. But for prep. work, he does. Every single one of his prep. feats worth mentioning, were done with tech.

Hence, as I said, the fact that there is no tech. takes away the majority of Thanos' prep. ability.

I can't disagree with this, but lets not forget about Thanos telepathy powers and that he was able to get inside Galactus mind. Thanos is a skilled telepathy.
Posted Image




I'm well aware that Thanos is the avatar of Death. As for his shielding and energy manipulation being "superior to anyone on Darkseid's team". Hardly. Darkseid's own energy manipulation, and shielding, is more impressive.

IMO Thanos has way better shielding and energy manipulation feats...
Posted Image

Also Odin is Skyfather level... Much higher than Post crisis Darkseid.



Just so we have all the facts from that feat: 1. Galactus was barely making any effort. and 2. After just one blast, Thanos was begging for mercy, and a second blast would have killed him.

So, to sum up. Thanos was, despite his shielding, brought to the point of begging for mercy, with a single half-assed blast from Galactus. Still relatively impressive, but far from as impressive as you make it out to be.

He was still able to take it from a person like Galactus. That is impressive to me.




And Juggernaut is not a jobber? He has been beaten by, among others, the original X-men team, and Spider-Man.

I know, but Juggernaut has way better showings than compared to Apocalypse...

I never seen Apocalypse with a durability like this...
Posted Image

Aye, and so has Apocalypse. Like single-handedly defeating the Inhumans, or the X-men.

Yet he lost to someone like Magneto and continues to Jobs to this very day.



Oh yes, replacing Juggernaut with Sinister is a great idea, but replacing him with someone that Sinister is afraid of, is a bad one.[/sarcasm]

I said Sinsister because to me he has better prep feats...



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#27 kainboa

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 01:39 PM

Wrong...

I don't know about intelligence. But Juggs has waaaay better strength feats compared to Apocalypse. How could Apocalypse even hurt him? He processes no magic abilities what so ever.

Juggs is leagues ahead of Apocalypse. He has the powers of a power demon..


Apocalypse beat down a raging Hulk, I might be remembering wrong, but I can't remember anything that Juggernaut has done, without getting some kind of power-up, that is superior to that.

#28 KidStranglehold

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 01:43 PM

Apocalypse beat down a raging Hulk, I might be remembering wrong, but I can't remember anything that Juggernaut has done, without getting some kind of power-up, that is superior to that.


Juggernaut also beat Hulk and he didn't even have any power ups.

He also made Thor look like a joke. Thor who is stronger than the Hulk,,,

#29 comic_book_fan

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:09 PM

Juggernaut also beat Hulk and he didn't even have any power ups.

He also made Thor look like a joke. Thor who is stronger than the Hulk,,,

thor is not stronger then hulk and apocalypse has beat the hulk also and he has also laughed at loki's best efforts

#30 KidStranglehold

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:14 PM

thor is not stronger then hulk and apocalypse has beat the hulk also and he has also laughed at loki's best efforts


Hulk is no where near as strong as Thor. Thor strength feats alone are superior to Hulks, but that's another debate.

I already know about Apoacalypse beating Hulk.

#31 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:20 PM

You're underestimating Apocalypse severely - focusing on his low-end showings, while ignoring his more powerful feats.

Posted Image

You see Black Bolt? See how he's screaming? See how Apocalypse is laughing at him? Yeah...

#32 sirmethos

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:34 PM

"The OP still said 12 hour prep time. It's the OP rules..."

Aye, and I already acknowledged that. But you don't seem to be getting my point, so I'll try to explain it slowly, in detail, and with simple words.

They have 12 hours to prep.

But for their prep:

They don't know the powers of the other team.

They don't know the skills of the other team.

They don't know the weaknesses of the other team.

To summarize: As I've already said, they don't have any information to use for their prep. Thus, the advantage goes to Team Darkseid.


"Dr Doom, Loki, Magneto and Thanos are better tacticians and Strategist..I'm bashing this on how Dr Doom is able to go up against people like Dr Strange, Beyonder, Silver Surfer. Thanos is able to out-think extremely powerful people like Galactus and Tyrant."

Doom's ability to go up against people like Dr. Strange, Beyonder, Silver Surfer, etc. has nothing to do with his strategic and/or tactical abilities, and has everything to do with his technological and magical skills.

Thanos has never "out thought" neither Tyrant nor Galactus, so that's a useless example.


"If that's the case, then why is this match in this location? And why is Doom even here? I'm being honest I don't know much about the Hyperbolic Time Chamber..."

No idea, I didn't create the match.


"Batman almost killed Darkseid. I know I didn't go into detail when I said Batman out-thought Darkseid, but he was still able to do this.

Posted Image "


Any idiot with a gun and a radion bullet could have done that.

Once again, a useless example.


"I can't disagree with this, but lets not forget about Thanos telepathy powers and that he was able to get inside Galactus mind. Thanos is a skilled telepathy."

That much is true.

Let's just be clear about the facts of your example here though. Thanos was only able to get into Galactus' mind, because Galactus wasn't paying attention, and wasn't actively defending himself. As soon as Galactus realized what was going on, Thanos was kicked out of his mind in a matter of seconds.

Again, it's still impressive. But again, not nearly as impressive as you're making it out to be.




"IMO Thanos has way better shielding and energy manipulation feats..."

That's because you, apparently, don't know much about Darkseid.

In terms of raw power, Darkseid provided (at least)1/5 of the power to destroy an entire universe.

Which, btw, is better than any 'feats' from a Skyfather as well.


"He was still able to take it from a person like Galactus. That is impressive to me."

Aye, as I already said in my last post, it is an impressive 'feat', but it is far from as impressive as you were making it out to be.



If there's anything important that I've forgotten to address, just let me know(it took a while to respond, and my ADD was acting up, so took a few breaks while responding).

#33 KidStranglehold

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:37 PM

You're underestimating Apocalypse severely - focusing on his low-end showings, while ignoring his more powerful feats.

%20http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers4.png





You see Black Bolt? See how he's screaming? See how Apocalypse is laughing at him? Yeah...


Hulk also tanked Black Bolts scream...
Posted Image

And I'm trying to ignore the his biggest feats. Fact of the matter is that Juggernaut has fought physically tougher people.

And he has better showings IMO.

#34 DSkillz

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:53 PM

Hulk also tanked Black Bolts scream...
Posted Image


That was a Skrull posing as Black Bolt.

#35 KidStranglehold

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:53 PM

Aye, and I already acknowledged that. But you don't seem to be getting my point, so I'll try to explain it slowly, in detail, and with simple words.

They have 12 hours to prep.

But for their prep:

They don't know the powers of the other team.

They don't know the skills of the other team.

They don't know the weaknesses of the other team.

To summarize: As I've already said, they don't have any information to use for their prep. Thus, the advantage goes to Team Darkseid.

Than Brainiac is considered useless... I bet Juggs can easily defeat Bizzaro. And his durability is a team savor.


Doom's ability to go up against people like Dr. Strange, Beyonder, Silver Surfer, etc. has nothing to do with his strategic and/or tactical abilities, and has everything to do with his technological and magical skills.

Thanos has never "out thought" neither Tyrant nor Galactus, so that's a useless example.

Doom is a good strategist for invading Wakanda(one of the richest and most power countries) and almost succeeding...

What? He out-thought Tyrant by escaping their fight. Thanos was able to get into Galactus mind.

.

Any idiot with a gun and a radion bullet could have done that.

Once again, a useless example.

I doubt a idiot would have the brains to try to go up against Darkseid like Batman did.



That much is true.

Let's just be clear about the facts of your example here though. Thanos was only able to get into Galactus' mind, because Galactus wasn't paying attention, and wasn't actively defending himself. As soon as Galactus realized what was going on, Thanos was kicked out of his mind in a matter of seconds.

Again, it's still impressive. But again, not nearly as impressive as you're making it out to be.

That was still Galactus, I doubt people on team Galactus can resist that besides Darkseid and MAYBE Black Adam.





That's because you, apparently, don't know much about Darkseid.

In terms of raw power, Darkseid provided (at least)1/5 of the power to destroy an entire universe.

Which, btw, is better than any 'feats' from a Skyfather as well.

I know a lot about Darkseid. It seems you're thinking this is pre crisis Darkseid.. Pre Crisis Darkseid was able to do that, but the writers toned him down. Odin can easily bust a galaxy.
Posted Image


Aye, as I already said in my last post, it is an impressive 'feat', but it is far from as impressive as you were making it out to be.

The reason why I said it was impressive, because it showed Thanos shield feats.


If there's anything important that I've forgotten to address, just let me know(it took a while to respond, and my ADD was acting up, so took a few breaks while responding).

I think you're all good, but I'll check.


Mines in blue.

#36 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:56 PM

That was a Skrull posing as Black Bolt.


This. If that were the real Black Bolt, Hulk would've been blasted off the moon.

How would Juggernaut deal with Apocalypse's telepathy? He's been shown as being more powerful than Exodus in that area.

Not to mention Apocalypse's matter manipulation.

#37 KidStranglehold

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:57 PM

That was a Skrull posing as Black Bolt.


That's BB during WWHulk...

#38 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:59 PM

It was a Skrull. Read Secret Invasion.

#39 KidStranglehold

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 03:00 PM

This. If that were the real Black Bolt, Hulk would've been blasted off the moon.

How would Juggernaut deal with Apocalypse's telepathy? He's been shown as being more powerful than Exodus in that area.

Not to mention Apocalypse's matter manipulation


Edit:
Okay that was not BB.

Apocalypse barley uses matter manipulation. Apocalypse has no magic, Juggernaut mostly has to be hurt by magic. Apocalypse can only most likely stalemate him like Skaar, but that was a weaker version on Juggs.

#40 KidStranglehold

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 03:00 PM

It was a Skrull. Read Secret Invasion.


My bad. I never read Secret Invasion, because I just couldn't get into it.




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