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Match 12562 Michael Corvin vs. Edward Cullen


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#21 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 12:27 PM

...You didn't watch it did you?

It damaged the Van slightly then slapped Selene aside into the near wall. It didn't crush her under. The Van was still standing, it's undercarriage showing no signs of buckling.

And it was trying to break though - otherwise it wouldn't have punched the walls around the opening in a fit of rage.

Aside from that, I'm not convinced that Michael is superior to a Super Lycan in strength.

Maybe in Speed and Intellect - their regeneration seems similar, since a Super no longer has the weakness to Silver. Michael's might be faster due to the vampire heritage (obviously he doesn't have the silver weakness as well).

#22 AVP vs The Terminator

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 12:29 PM

I am not going with any feats from the Twilight novels only the movies and what we have actually seen.


Ignoring the source material and instead focusing on media adaptations is not a good debating technique. Just sayin'.

#23 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 12:35 PM

Edited my post since I didn't want to waste a post (I WASTED THIS ONE).

#24 bigballerju

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 01:10 PM

...You didn't watch it did you?

It damaged the Van slightly then slapped Selene aside into the near wall. It didn't crush her under. The Van was still standing, it's undercarriage showing no signs of buckling.

And it was trying to break though - otherwise it wouldn't have punched the walls around the opening in a fit of rage.

Aside from that, I'm not convinced that Michael is superior to a Super Lycan in strength.

Maybe in Speed and Intellect - their regeneration seems similar, since a Super no longer has the weakness to Silver. Michael's might be faster due to the vampire heritage (obviously he doesn't have the silver weakness as well).


It was said in the movie a hybrid is the most powerful whether you were convinced or not. Also did you watch the clip above? The Super Lycan was on top of the Van with Selene below it as he was crushing Selene with the Van. He still crushed the Van easily even though it wasn't fully destroyed. Once again in the Twilight films I didn't see any Vampires throwing cars with ease.


Ignoring the source material and instead focusing on media adaptations is not a good debating technique. Just sayin'.


On CBUB we are going with the media adaptions which are the movies unless someone says the actual book since the films are the most known. Honestly I have not read the book and only have seen the films since I use to work at a Movie Theater. Is the movie canon with the actually Twilight films and nothing was changed? This is a important question since you brought up the book.

You know me AVP I wouldn't ignore the source material if its canon. However i heard not everything is the same between the film and book. If the film is completely canon with the book and nothing was changed then fine we can take the book into consideration. If not then no we can't.

#25 G4hardcore

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 01:10 PM

I'll point out that I haven't seen the movie yet, but I was just thinking about something. In a previous movie, a normal Lycan had no trouble smashing through a concrete wall. I even recall bringing up that particular feat in another debate some time back. I should also point out that, while concrete has (as a man made material) consistency throughout its mass, a natural boulder is covered in points that are weaker than other points. In fact, the bigger the boulder, the more inconsistencies it will have.

In other words, the small mass of a single fist combined with superhuman strength going against a boulder isn't the strongest evidence in Edward's case if we're trying to prove he's stronger. Consider also, that the frame of a doorway is one of the most stable points of a foundation. There's a reason we stand next to them during earthquakes, afterall!

Edited by G4hardcore, 06 September 2012 - 01:13 PM.


#26 bigballerju

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 01:17 PM

I'll point out that I haven't seen the movie yet, but I was just thinking about something. In a previous movie, a normal Lycan had no trouble smashing through a concrete wall. I even recall bringing up that particular feat in another debate some time back. I should also point out that, while concrete has (as a man made material) consistency throughout its mass, a natural boulder is covered in points that are weaker than other points. In fact, the bigger the boulder, the more inconsistencies it will have.

In other words, the small mass of a single fist combined with superhuman strength going against a boulder isn't the strongest evidence in Edward's case if we're trying to prove he's stronger. Consider also, that the frame of a doorway is one of the most stable points of a foundation. There's a reason we stand next to them during earthquakes, afterall!


Very good thoughts G4 and I agree.

#27 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 01:25 PM

...And we still haven't seen anything from Michael that puts him on the same level as The Super Lycan in terms of strength. Ripping Humans and Lycans apart is widely different than chucking cars around.

If he was crushing Selene with the Van, we'd see the Van being warped and the tires blown - we don't, it's still standing firmly on it's tires. End result: He didn't crush her. At all.

Which movie? Evolution I presume.

If anything, if the Super Lycan was at least as strong as Edward, Refer to Methos's Calcs, it should have at least done more so damage than it did - though you're right about that, it being a more so durable structure. And a concrete wall would be less durable/sturdier than a concrete doorway, correct? Though I still need to see this - it's been a while since I've seen Evolution or the First Film.

#28 G4hardcore

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 01:57 PM

I think it was Evolution, but my phone does not play videos after the faulty update, so feel free to do some soul searching if you feel it's necassary. I believe the same scene was described on a wiki page describing Lycans. Also, when I say normal Lycan, I just mean relatively normal compared to this "Super Lycan".

Did not read the calculations. If he can't be arsed to copy/paste his own words, I can't be arsed to find whatever particular passage he's referring to, no offense. Yes, frames are definitely more sturdy than doorways, although there's also the unknown factor of how thick the concrete itself was, as I have yet to see the movie for myself.

#29 G4hardcore

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 02:04 PM

I have the movie, but this is the best I can do for now.

"It should be noted that when in their werewolf forms they are stronger than when in human form, able to break through solid concrete walls, and seem to be stronger than the Vampires, as every hand-to-hand confrontation between the two races under normal circumstances has ended with a Lycan victory, the one exception being the Vampire Elder Viktor."

http://underworld.wi...com/wiki/Lycans

#30 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 02:13 PM

Alrighty then.

#31 kainboa

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 02:26 PM

snip


Did not read the calculations. If he can't be arsed to copy/paste his own words, I can't be arsed to find whatever particular passage he's referring to, no offense.

One small point, methos did include a link, that leads directly to the post he made with the calculations, rather than copy pasting them into this thread.

#32 G4hardcore

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 02:43 PM

That he did. But it takes so little effort to do, it's more of a courtesy. I wouldn't have even brought up this small thing if he wouldn't have went through the trouble of telling us how much he "couldn't be arsed". Again, yes, this is petty.

#33 bigballerju

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 03:18 PM

Yea I own most of the Underworld films as well including the most recent one. Let me also provide something from the Underworld wiki on Michael. I tried finding clips on youtube to show but didn't at the moment.


"Michael also has the ability to change partially, such as his eyes and teeth and even turn his fingers into claws. In Hybrid form, Michael has a combination of Vampire and Lycan teeth, with the Vampire teeth in his top jaw, and Lycan teeth in his bottom jaw.
  • Superhuman Endurance: Whether he is in his Hybrid form or human form, Michael can withstand several gunshots and still have enough strength to fight.
  • Superhuman Strength: While in his Hybrid form, Michael's strength increases significantly. He held his ground against Viktor, a centuries-old Vampire Elder, in physical combat immediately following the transformation, taking the Elder by surprise with his incredible speed and strength before ultimately falling prey to Viktor's much greater combat experience and superior battle technique. Although Michael is potentially one of the most physically powerful beings of the series, his lack of combat experience tends to put him at a disadvantage when facing particularly experienced combatants, though his raw strength and speed is often enough to compensate for this when facing the average Vampire or Lycan; Viktor is the only non-Hybrid being that Michael has had trouble defeating. He also can punch through a Werewolf's chest with ease. His strength is so great that he was able to kill William, the first Werewolf in existence (who had been weakened by centuries without sustenance), by tearing his head in half with his bare hands immediately after being brought back from the dead from a few drops of Selene's blood.
  • Healing Factor: Although he seems dependent on blood to sustain himself, his healing is as powerful as the rest of him, allowing Michael to come back to life even after being impaled twice through the chest and provided with only a few drops of Selene's blood with no sign of weakness, although it took him at least a couple of hours to recover. It is possible that if he sustains life-threatening wounds without compensating the blood loss, his body goes into suspended animation, similar to a Vampire Elder's, in order to preserve the brain long enough for it to heal the damage.
  • Superhuman Speed: Due to him being a Hybrid, Michael's speed greatly exceeds both Lycan and Vampire, able to move several meters and down a story in less than a second.
  • Superhuman Agility: Michael can jump higher and can move more athletically than both Vampire or Lycan.
  • Sensory Synchronization: He and his daughter can perceive through each other psychically as well as sense each other's presence."
http://underworld.wi.../Michael_Corvin

#34 skadoosh

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 04:33 PM

Michael's faster, for sure, and although he might not be stronger he's probably strong enough to harm Edward. However, Edward definitely has the ability to kill Michael, if only with his sheer strength, but, given that, despite his apparent desire to kill Michael, Edward will not be striking first, due to his nice, conscious thoughts, Michael will be getting in killing shots before his opponent will, due to his more vicious and instinctual nature.

So, i reckon Michael wins, just.

#35 Supes Rulez

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 10:04 PM

Michael did stop a large oncoming truck in it's tracks and was careful enough not to damage it, with Edward I'm not exactly sure if he'd be so considerate.
Not trying to take sides, just helping with details.

#36 Fenris Wolf

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 05:50 AM

I'll point out that I haven't seen the movie yet, but I was just thinking about something. In a previous movie, a normal Lycan had no trouble smashing through a concrete wall. I even recall bringing up that particular feat in another debate some time back. I should also point out that, while concrete has (as a man made material) consistency throughout its mass, a natural boulder is covered in points that are weaker than other points. In fact, the bigger the boulder, the more inconsistencies it will have.

In other words, the small mass of a single fist combined with superhuman strength going against a boulder isn't the strongest evidence in Edward's case if we're trying to prove he's stronger. Consider also, that the frame of a doorway is one of the most stable points of a foundation. There's a reason we stand next to them during earthquakes, afterall!


In this case it would be more about point of impact than anything else. I don't recall the specific scene you're referencing, but concrete when upright in a stationary wall form, would be far easier to break through with a running start and a full body blow (which inevitably would have roughly the same initial impact surface area as a fist when the head or shoulder made contact) than a boulder with a rounded surface meeting a rounded fist. Far easier. Now if the boulder were flattened and held in place and stricken in the same fashion that the concrete wall was broken through (I'm assuming it was a charging blow, like the technique I'd assume a football player who has absorbed some of TGRI's mutagen ooze might use to bash through said wall) the consistency and impurity of a boulder may be weaker than the concrete.

#37 L.I.C. (-Large In Charge-)

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:38 PM

"Half Lycan!" "Half Deathdealer(-Vampire-)!" "But stronger than both!" Keyword: Stronger!

Micheal wins! Edward dies! The End! No more doubts!

#38 G4hardcore

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 03:19 PM

Note: The Lycan that broke through the cement wall was from the first movie, I watched it last night.

#39 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 03:20 PM

Oh Ryze.

That wall seemed thin. Though my memory might be off.

#40 G4hardcore

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 03:25 PM

Well, the wall would seem thin next to a big 'ole Lycan. Honestly though, I had it pegged at around 4-5 inches in thickness. I'll image the screenshot if you'd like to jugde for yourself. But only because your a preferred member of this here site. :D




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