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The Dark Knight Rises


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#21 Pseudonym

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:29 PM

No, sir. Loki beautifully orchestrated the team falling apart. He turned them against each other. He tapped on each of their darkest senses and let them go nuts. He killed Coulton. He nearly ripped apart the helicarrier and got NYC nuked. Loki was the darkest parts of the Marvel Universe. He really showed his stuff as the God of chaos. And that's why it was so gorram awesome to see him defeated. To see all seven avengers together in the middle of the New York Street.

Bane punched Batman and then took him to a prison. But he didn't really work as much for me. I can appreciate that they tried to connect Bane and Batman. They put them both on motorcycles in the opening fight. They're both orphans. They both want what's best for Gotham. They both wear masks. They tried to set it up so that Batman was fighting himself like they did in Begins and TDK. But it didn't work. There was no facet of Batman's experience that changed in TDKR. If there was, I didn't see it.

#22 xman4life

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:29 PM

I didn't like either story. Avengers was the run of the mill "Save the world from an invader!" while TDKR was "STOP THE NUKE!". TDKR just had small things that worked wonders. Bane was a great villain for Batman as Batman had yet to find someone who could beat him physically. Someone who could also out think him.

avengers was the first super hero team movie which makes it a classic on its on. Any super hero team movie HAS to have the plot of "save the world" no one wants to see and avengers movie with them hanging out at stark towers or playing cards.lol Plus thats EXACTLY how the avengers started out........by stopping a threat that required multiple heroes so yeah it HAD to be like that. Again im not knocking Batman. The movie was brilliant its just minor things that kinda irked me.

#23 silversurfer092

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:52 PM

Bane punched Batman and then took him to a prison. But he didn't really work as much for me. I can appreciate that they tried to connect Bane and Batman. They put them both on motorcycles in the opening fight. They're both orphans. They both want what's best for Gotham. They both wear masks. They tried to set it up so that Batman was fighting himself like they did in Begins and TDK. But it didn't work. There was no facet of Batman's experience that changed in TDKR. If there was, I didn't see it.


I didn't get the Batman and Bane connection either. I understood what happened in the prison, with how Bruce had to break out and overcome fear and whatnot, but I never thought Batman had fear to overcome. They never convinced me that Bruce was scared in the first place. That's why I say TDKR was a superhero movie. Nothing really happened other than the bad guy was defeated. In TDK, you saw Batman evolve. He had to become something more to defeat the Joker. At the very end, taking the hit for Harvey, he became a real hero, doing whatever was necessary. In TDKR, it just didn't happen.

#24 Pseudonym

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:59 PM

I agree. That's a problem.

I do however enjoy Batman engaging in a fist fight with Bane after coming back from The Pit.

"Bane. Let's fight."

"Oh... did you learn special kung fus that you're going to use to beat me? Is that why you're so confident now?"

"No, I... I climbed out of a hole. I know you utterly destroyed me last time but... yeah what am I doing."

#25 Magnamax

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 12:20 AM

No, sir. Loki beautifully orchestrated the team falling apart. He turned them against each other. He tapped on each of their darkest senses and let them go nuts. He killed Coulton. He nearly ripped apart the helicarrier and got NYC nuked. Loki was the darkest parts of the Marvel Universe. He really showed his stuff as the God of chaos. And that's why it was so gorram awesome to see him defeated. To see all seven avengers together in the middle of the New York Street.

Bane punched Batman and then took him to a prison. But he didn't really work as much for me. I can appreciate that they tried to connect Bane and Batman. They put them both on motorcycles in the opening fight. They're both orphans. They both want what's best for Gotham. They both wear masks. They tried to set it up so that Batman was fighting himself like they did in Begins and TDK. But it didn't work. There was no facet of Batman's experience that changed in TDKR. If there was, I didn't see it.


But Loki also got ripped apart in any physical confrontation in the film, even Captain America holds his own in a close fight with him. He wasn't interesting because they didn't seem to need seven Avengers to beat him, maybe to beat that army, but not to beat him on his own. I though Loki was a weak villain the entire time, he wasn't even in control of the army he was "leading," rather he was being bullied and threatened by the leaders of that army to take his own petty revenge. Loki just wanted to beat Thor, his character just isn't interesting.

Bane, on the other hand, represents the force undoing the lie that Gotham's stability was based upon. He is essentially Batman fighting for the other side and working to undue the evils of society. Again, think of all the culturally relevant things Bane's character represented: class warfare, arguments of socialistic ideals entering politics, economic manipulation and the fear of terrorism infiltrating America. In short, I felt Loki was an excuse to get seven heroes together for a very good action movie, Bane was the embodiment of culturally relevant anxieties and intriguing ideas of class disparity.

How did connecting Bane with Batman not work and how did Batman not change? The whole sequence where Batman finally leaves the pit is where he leaves his "privileged life," absolves himself of fear and changes into something more. It's also where Batman fully realizes that he needs to become a symbol for the city by actually martyring himself in the way HArvey never did, this is all due to what Bane did to Batman.

On a side note: did anyone else read that they drew on "A Tale of Two Cities" for inspiration while writing the script? Cool stuff...

P.S. I would also like to note that Loki's demise at the hands of Hulk was much more embarrassing than Bane getting blown away

Edited by Magnamax, 21 July 2012 - 12:31 AM.


#26 Peypeypeypey

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 12:26 AM

And in the end, how did they defeat Bane? Did Batman overcome him through determination?


"Bane. Let's fight."

"Oh... did you learn special kung fus that you're going to use to beat me? Is that why you're so confident now?"

"No, I... I climbed out of a hole. I know you utterly destroyed me last time but... yeah what am I doing."



#27 God-Speed_88

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 05:42 AM

Think I will go and see it again tonight, it just wasn't up to scratch for me.

#28 Pseudonym

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 12:07 PM

@Magnamax: He didn't give up his priveleged life.
@Quadpey: They didn't show off the determination well if that's what they were going for

#29 Darkender

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 12:19 PM

I didn't like it because it completely destroyed my view of Batman as a badass. He was getting beat down the whole movie! I understand that the hero must rise from the ashes but, as someone pointed out, he didn't even take out Bane himself! It was ridiculous. The movie was alright, but it was too hyped up. The previous movie was better.

#30 Xenerack5

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 12:26 PM

I thought both were aewsome but i liked DKR more. Banes origins being changed i dont mind so much. Robyn was cool.

#31 Magnamax

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:36 PM

@Magnamax: He didn't give up his priveleged life.
@Quadpey: They didn't show off the determination well if that's what they were going for

I think he does.

That's a direct quote from the movie; he had to learn what it was like to rise from the ground up, he loses his privilege by losing his fortune and his mantle as Batman. He then has to grow in the prison from the lowest point possible. Then later on he gives up his life permanently to save Gotham.

#32 Magnamax

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 02:41 PM

I didn't like it because it completely destroyed my view of Batman as a badass. He was getting beat down the whole movie! I understand that the hero must rise from the ashes but, as someone pointed out, he didn't even take out Bane himself! It was ridiculous. The movie was alright, but it was too hyped up. The previous movie was better.

Batman did beat Bane, he had him beat down, on the ground and was then stabbed by Talia, even saying "...then you have my permission to die," as he was standing over a broken Bane. Had Talia not interfered he would have taken Bane out himself, the only reason Catwoman ended up doing it was because Bruce was betrayed.

As far as him getting beat throughout, Batman was no longer in his prime in this film. Bane is essentially a younger, hungrier version of Batman in his prime, with similar training and drive, of course Batman will lose when they fight. Batman had to rediscover the drive to beat Bane, which was the entire point of him making the "leap of faith" while scaling the pit. In that moment Batman realized what it would take to beat Bane and, further, what he needed to do to become a symbol of faith for Gotham. He beats Bane by rising from his lowest point, through sheer determination, and becomes the hero Gotham both needs and deserves by killing himself for the future of the city.

#33 silversurfer092

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 03:28 PM

Magnamax, you are correct. All that did happen. I just didn't believe it. I knew it was happening, but I didn't buy into it, I didn't think that it really actually happened.

#34 Magnamax

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 03:51 PM

Magnamax, you are correct. All that did happen. I just didn't believe it. I knew it was happening, but I didn't buy into it, I didn't think that it really actually happened.

Out of curiosity, why did you have trouble buying into it?

#35 silversurfer092

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 04:02 PM

I just didn't really see him overcome anything. He was really poor, yet he didn't lose anything substantial. He had all of his Batman stuff and whatnot. He just had one night by a fireplace. Oh no. He had his back broken, then his back fixed, then a few pushups and situps, then he escaped. I didn't really feel that he overcame any sort of fear, or any sort of anything.

#36 Magnamax

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 04:35 PM

I just didn't really see him overcome anything. He was really poor, yet he didn't lose anything substantial. He had all of his Batman stuff and whatnot. He just had one night by a fireplace. Oh no. He had his back broken, then his back fixed, then a few pushups and situps, then he escaped. I didn't really feel that he overcame any sort of fear, or any sort of anything.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that front, it's interesting that you didn't see that but still like the film overall though.

#37 El Wookiee

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 07:02 PM

I do have 1 major problem with the movie.
He leaves the Bat on a roof top for 5 months under a simple tarp. And NOBODY notices it?
Other than that it’s a great movie.

#38 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 09:08 PM

I see no reason why anyone would notice it. Bane has control of the city with his army already having enough copies of the Batmobile to utilize. The police are trapped underground, most civilians are waiting it out in their homes. Only Bane and crew have the time to search every rooftop. They don't have any inclination to do so however.

#39 deojusto

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 09:12 PM

So what kind of accent did Bane have? His vowels got all wonky, was that Scottish or what?

#40 Peypeypeypey

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 09:30 PM

(Spoilers) Do you guys think Batman died at the end? It is heavily implied, but they also show him. I thought he did, and when Alfred saw him it was all symbolical or whatever, but one of my older brothers disagreed, saying through some BS he got out of the plane and survived.




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